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Spieth and his struggles


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#1 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:21 AM

Jordan Spieth has stopped being Jordan Spieth in the majors. It could be a one of the following or a combination of the following. Would love your thoughts:

1) He caught lightning in a bottle for a period of time. He just wasn't as good as we originally thought.

2) His search and time dedicated to finding more distance with his driver a year ago threw off his game and made his Putting sufffer.

3) It's focus - ever since he joined the group of Fowler, Thomas, Kaufman on their party Spring Break getaways none of them have played exceptional down the final stretch of a major. It's a lifestyle choice.

4) Hard to believe but this all comes back to Hole #12 at Augusta 2 years ago.

5) I don't care how good you are, you can't be outdriven by 30-50 yards and be the best player in the world.

6) Golf is hard and a cruel mistress

Edited by Andrew Bond of Glencoe, 19 June 2017 - 06:23 AM.


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#2 bladehunter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:23 AM

#3.....  or possibly the hyper focus he described yesterday.... he said yesterday he went out and just played and for half the day had posted the lowest round of anyone....  hes pressing and that doest yeild results most times.. press in practice and freewheel in game situations.. and let the results come as they will ...
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#3 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:27 AM

Probably all of the above. Good summary.
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#4 ZAP

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:29 AM

I'm going with 6 combined with 2.

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#5 airjammer

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:31 AM

1.

Someone may never duplicate the amount of long putts he made that year..it just wasn't sustainable..period. Nothing else has really changed.


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#6 814willowbeach

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:31 AM

6

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#7 Warrick

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:39 AM

View Postairjammer, on 19 June 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

1.

Someone may never duplicate the amount of long putts he made that year..it just wasn't sustainable..period. Nothing else has really changed.

I agree here.

You can't putt like "that" for a sustained amount of time, just not realistic.  He will be fine, but will not be what some thought him to be after those 2 in a row.
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#8 jmvargas

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:43 AM

good analysis and the putting aspect is now carrying over to jason day too..
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#9 baaron008

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:45 AM

He has the lowest scoring average on the Tour. I think he will be fine. 9 victories at his age is an incredible accomplishment, and I think he will at least get to 20 victories for the lifetime exemption.

Edited by baaron008, 19 June 2017 - 06:47 AM.


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#10 sfiggins

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:01 AM

1 win, 6 top 10's, 10 top 25's in 15 tournaments including T11 in the Masters.

The curse of high expectations.


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#11 JaNelson38

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:25 AM

He sat on the range on Saturday afternoon and watched Steve Stricker hit balls and talked with him a bit.

Literally...was sitting on the ground and watching.  Clearly he's searching for something, and his brain is a mess right now.

As others have said, I dont think his game is far off...but when he was on fire for that time period, he made every 25 footer he looked at.  And as we all know a hot putter can cover up a lot of other things with your game.

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#12 mocokid

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:28 AM

$$$$ zillions of endorsements and high expectations.
Let's be honest, not the best full swing, and not the longest.
His amazing 2015 had a lot to do with GREAT putting, never to be duplicated.

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#13 MattyO1984

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:32 AM

6. Golf is hard!

It's probably a nice problem to have but, his career season happened at the start of his career. He is always going to be compared to that and I think it will be nigh upon impossible for him to match it let alone beat it. A similar thing is happening for McIlroy now. Everything goes back to 2014 and actually matching that is going to be tough for him.

Compare it to O'Meara. He won The Masters and The Open in 1998. If he had done that at the start of his career then the rest of his career could be considered a let down. Instead he did it near to the end and even if he never came close to matching it, he was an older guy and he was never going to do it.

I would think that Spieth will continue to be near to the top of the game for the next 10-15 years.
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#14 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:35 AM

2 years ago he was hitting a weak fade with the driver but he knew where it was going. Now he is hitting a stronger draw but has lost some mojo. It seems like he is figuring it out but he has made some significant changes. Reminds me of what Tiger went through after his first Masters win and his swing rebuild with Butch. Not that I think JS will win 4 majors in a row soon but he will go on another run at some point I m fray certain.
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#15 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?


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#16 bladehunter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM

View Postmocokid, on 19 June 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

$$$$ zillions of endorsements and high expectations.
Let's be honest, not the best full swing, and not the longest.
His amazing 2015 had a lot to do with GREAT putting, never to be duplicated.


i would argue he has one of the best fullswings out there with an iron or a wedge... he repeatedly hit shots pinhigh yesterday in the worst wind of the day... sure haters  of his swing point out its flaws that are all consmetic... But results dont lie..  i would take him before most anyone for proximity with a 8 iron down into any green..
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#17 new2g0lf

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM

I am a huge fan of Spieth but 2015 was an outlier season for him.  He's not athletically gifted like some of the guys on Tour and mentally I believe he's succumbing to the pressure of expectations and inability to close the 2016 Masters.  

He thrived being a nobody that was dominating golf in 2015, but in 2016 the spotlight was on him and that's a lot more pressure to play with.  In 2015 he played faster, was more confident and lacked the indecision we see from him today.  Today he's worried about making every shot perfect and I know first hand that it's impossible to play golf well with that mentality even if he's a pro and I'm a 17 handicap hack.  

We're now seeing the same pressure affecting him on the putting greens.  The rest of his game is struggling and placing even more pressure on his putting which is making him question his reads.  

Watch a match from 2015 and one from this season and it's like watching two different people in terms of his pre shot routine and conversations with his caddie.
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#18 bladehunter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?



hard to say .. wouldnt that have meant a playoff ?   or did he win by 2?  cant recall
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#19 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:43 AM

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

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#20 jtitleist12

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:54 AM

Golf is hard...and the struggle is real!

I was just having this conversation with a buddy and a couple years ago I was in the camp that Spieth was simply too good with the putter and his ball striking was so solid that his run would continue in the Majors for a long time.  I am starting to think he really did catch lightning in a bottle in 2015 and rode the wave as long as he could.

It's easy to think when these guys get on runs that they will dominate for years to come and in successive Majors but look at McIlroy and Jason Day as recent examples of looking like they're going to get a couple Majors per year and then that not happening.  Dustin Johnson may be another example but we'll have to see how the rest of the year plays out...

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#21 new2g0lf

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:08 AM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

The difference between Tiger and Spieth is that Tiger was out driving most of his competition as well which takes a lot of pressure of the putter.  When guys like Rory, Day, DJ, Koepka and Rahm are on, Spieth needs to be near perfect with the rest of his game to make up the strokes he's giving up off the tee.
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#22 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:10 AM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 19 June 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

The difference between Tiger and Spieth is that Tiger was out driving most of his competition as well which takes a lot of pressure of the putter.  When guys like Rory, Day, DJ, Koepka and Rahm are on, Spieth needs to be near perfect with the rest of his game to make up the strokes he's giving up off the tee.

To be clear that was not a comparison- just stated that putting prowess can extend for a prolonged period of time.

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#23 new2g0lf

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:12 AM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 19 June 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

The difference between Tiger and Spieth is that Tiger was out driving most of his competition as well which takes a lot of pressure of the putter.  When guys like Rory, Day, DJ, Koepka and Rahm are on, Spieth needs to be near perfect with the rest of his game to make up the strokes he's giving up off the tee.

To be clear that was not a comparison- just stated that putting prowess can extend for a prolonged period of time.
I agree, there are no rules for how long you can putt well, it's mostly mental.
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#24 North Butte

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:16 AM

What is not sustainable is loudly berating yourself and having a bratty little mini-tantrum after every single shot that is not inch-perfect. He literally whined for 60 seconds after hitting a 40-yard pitch shot 3 feet past the hole.

Very few are capable of playing under major pressure while spewing angry or judgmental negativity for 4-1/2 straight hours. And when it is all self-directed the damage is even worse.

At some point he will learn to be perfectionistic about his process but accepting of less than perfection in his execution. Calling yourself an idiot out loud because you miss a shot by 1% is not high standards. It is getting in your own way and indulging childish petulance.

Edited by North Butte, 19 June 2017 - 01:11 PM.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#25 Nixhex524

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:27 AM

View PostZAP, on 19 June 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

I'm going with 6 combined with 2.

I agree!!!

But I can understand why he was chasing distance.... It can't be easy to watch some of these guys out drive the crap out of you on a consistent basis, at some point it has to mess with your head, case in point here I believe.  He was solid just playing his game for a while and he should have trusted it more.  I wonder if the things he was doing with his short game had the same effect on those guys that could bomb it... seems like DJ put some short game work in over the last year.  I think Spieth will get it back but he's gotta get control of his head.


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#26 Santiago Golf

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:29 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?



hard to say .. wouldnt that have meant a playoff ?   or did he win by 2?  cant recall
Would have a playoff. I had that monday off too! Wouldve been a great one to watch
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#27 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:37 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

View Postmocokid, on 19 June 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

$$$$ zillions of endorsements and high expectations.
Let's be honest, not the best full swing, and not the longest.
His amazing 2015 had a lot to do with GREAT putting, never to be duplicated.


i would argue he has one of the best fullswings out there with an iron or a wedge... he repeatedly hit shots pinhigh yesterday in the worst wind of the day... sure haters  of his swing point out its flaws that are all consmetic... But results dont lie..  i would take him before most anyone for proximity with a 8 iron down into any green..

Rich Hunt did an analysis here after his hot streak on why he was so good.  I think it came down to mid range approach shots and mid range putting.  He is pretty good at scrambling around the green when he needs it as well.  

He is never going to overpower a course, but he is long enough to compete, he needs to figure out how to hit more fairways and keep working on his iron game.  The putts will fall again, everyone is streaky to some extent, even when he struggles with his putting he is still pretty good, so when he gets hot then he is better than most anyone.  

Let's see where he stands in 10 years or so, my gut tells me he'll have a few more majors and a handfulll of wins.  I see him as a 5 major 30 win guy.  But who really knows, golf is a funny game.

I think Tiger spoiled us with how he dominated.  JS is having a good season this year, just think if he averaged 2 wins a year over the next 12 years, nothing spectacular, but it would make he one of the best players of his generation,

Edited by dlygrisse, 19 June 2017 - 08:40 AM.

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#28 redfirebird08

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:41 AM

He putted as well as prime Tiger. Problem is it's hard to keep it going long term. Curious to see how it plays out for him going forward.

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#29 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:45 AM

View Postdlygrisse, on 19 June 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

View Postmocokid, on 19 June 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

$$$$ zillions of endorsements and high expectations.
Let's be honest, not the best full swing, and not the longest.
His amazing 2015 had a lot to do with GREAT putting, never to be duplicated.


i would argue he has one of the best fullswings out there with an iron or a wedge... he repeatedly hit shots pinhigh yesterday in the worst wind of the day... sure haters  of his swing point out its flaws that are all consmetic... But results dont lie..  i would take him before most anyone for proximity with a 8 iron down into any green..

Rich Hunt did an analysis here after his hot streak on why he was so good.  I think it came down to mid range approach shots and mid range putting.  He is pretty good at scrambling around the green when he needs it as well.  

He is never going to overpower a course, but he is long enough to compete, he needs to figure out how to hit more fairways and keep working on his iron game.  The putts will fall again, everyone is streaky to some extent, even when he struggles with his putting he is still pretty good, so when he gets hot then he is better than most anyone.  

Let's see where he stands in 10 years or so, my gut tells me he'll have a few more majors and a handfulll of wins.  I see him as a 5 major 30 win guy.  But who really knows, golf is a funny game.

I think Tiger spoiled us with how he dominated.  JS is having a good season this year, just think if he averaged 2 wins a year over the next 12 years, nothing spectacular, but it would make he one of the best players of his generation,

Agreed. Tiger felt he had a bad season when he didn't win a major. Can you imagine any of these players honestly feeling that way? I sense the answer is no. Which shows you how different Tiger's mindset was in his prime.

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#30 sandy

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:55 AM

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..


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