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lie angle - Jesus it makes a difference!!!


30 replies to this topic

#1 kgeorge78

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

I never took too much consideration into lie angle in the past but When I was fitted for AP2 I was fitted 2 deg flat....

Played standard Clubs for most of my adult golfing life but for fun I bent my irons 2.5 Deg Flat _ Jesus Chris what a difference!!!

I was acutally hitting blocks and cuts instead of the dreaded hook (over draw) Ive been hitting for years....

Then I bent one 2 deg up for experiments sake and Hook City Unreal.....    


So for all those guys who post "does lie angle make a difference??"
Answer for me is Hell yes....

I read somewhere 3 yards left or right per deg and it was pretty accurate in my experimenting today

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#2 BIG STU

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:08 PM

Absolutely it does make a difference. Now to show you how everyone's swing is different the adjustments you stated for you I am just the opposite. If the club is too upright for me I will hit blocks and if it is too flat I can hook it off the planet. One of the reasons I am a big proponent of getting clubs fit for one's individual swing by a fitter that knows what they are doing.

Yep my friend seems like you have seen the light which is a good thing
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#3 twgolf78

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:20 PM

big time for me.  A club too upright gives me disastrous results

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#4 Glaze22

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:58 AM

My miss is a push/slice on my irons. I was just fit late last month at CC and he changed just the lie and I was hitting everything dead straight. I could have never guessed how much of a difference it made. Well that and some new shafts.

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#5 kgeorge78

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:24 AM

View PostGlaze22, on 17 June 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

My miss is a push/slice on my irons. I was just fit late last month at CC and he changed just the lie and I was hitting everything dead straight. I could have never guessed how much of a difference it made. Well that and some new shafts.

leaving S300 to AMT was a s*** show.  Back to S300 and ball is going straighter as well.

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#6 DNice26

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

Lol, live the title.  Yep, can make a pretty big difference.
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#7 Fade to Black

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:34 AM

Just out of curiosity, sorry to threadjack, but how much $ per iron is it typically to adjust lie angles? $5? $10?
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#8 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:46 AM

View PostFade to Black, on 17 June 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity, sorry to threadjack, but how much $ per iron is it typically to adjust lie angles? $5? $10?
$5 max.  Any more is robbery.  Only takes a few seconds per club for someone with experience. I'm lucky.  I do my own for free  at a shop where I know the guys.
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#9 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:07 AM

My favorite lie angle story that I experienced first hand..  I posted it on another thread a couple weeks ago.  enjoy.....


I have some time.  Let me tell you my favorite lie angle story.

In the early 90's I was a PGA apprentice in So Cal.  I volunteered to work the tournament at Torrey Pines one year. I was assigned to be a "gopher" of sorts.  I worked the range and ran the pros back and forth from the range to the first tee and putting green. The range is (or was) two sided and it's a long walk to the far side.

There was a lull in the action and I stopped my cart to sit and watch Ben Crenshaw hit his sand wedge at the 100 yard flag on the range. He was testing a new one and one of the tour reps was standing there with his caddy. Cleveland or Cobra wedge I think, but I'm not certain.  It's been a while. ; )

So he hits the wedge very nicely.  Two yards left, one yard  left, three yards left, one yard left, two yards left. He hits it only about 5 or 6 times and turns and gives it to the rep and says, "fix it".

Rep runs off for 2 or 3 minutes to the Van and comes back with the club.  Ben hits hit two yards right, one yard right, three yards right, two yards right....again, he gives it to the rep and says, "fix it".

Rep comes back in 2 or 3 minutes and hands it back to him again.  This time he's a few feet right, on it, a few feet left, on it, and then hits the stick.....at which point he tells the rep, "that's good, thanks." And sticks it in his bag. Literally hit 5 balls.

He waved me over and I drove he and his caddie to the first tee to tee off. Wished him good luck and said goodbye.

After he teed off I went back to the range and found the rep.  I told him that I had been studying club fitting and what I saw was amazing.  I said I had no idea a degree or two of lie angle change could make such a difference.  He looked at me funny and said, "a degree or two??, I was adjusting that thing for him in HALF DEGREE increments."

Over 20 years  later and I still remember that as one of the most important things I've ever seen in club fitting. Lie angles are absolutely critical, especially in the wedges, and even half degrees can make a very real difference in ball flight.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 17 June 2017 - 11:40 AM.

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#10 Fade to Black

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:17 AM

Great story ^^^

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#11 Jasonic

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:06 PM

I bent my iron 2 degrees flat and huge difference. Got the LTD pro because it's flatter. If only I could bend my 3 wood.
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#12 wundej

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:40 PM

View PostJasonic, on 17 June 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

I bent my iron 2 degrees flat and huge difference. Got the LTD pro because it's flatter. If only I could bend my 3 wood.
Just go with something that doesn't have an adjustable hosel. You can't bend them anything like an iron, but good club builders can get some movement out of them. I had my X2 hot woods and hybrids bent flat. I asked them to get what they were comfortable with out of them. It makes a huge difference. I'm ~5'5" so the upright stuff these days spells disaster for me.

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#13 sofc

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:54 PM

I was fitted for irons 2 degrees flat also (by two fitters - one iron fitting and one putter fitting after which he did a quick iron analysis.)  

Bought AP1s after demo-ing for weeks.  Played great with them,  had them bent down and couldn't hit them.  

Haven't bent my new set down yet.
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#14 360_CS

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:10 PM

My first set was just standard lie angle. I would hit blocks and hooks with the short irons. I got fitted for irons 2 degrees upright and my ball flight is so much straighter. No blocks or massive hooks.

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#15 OBbogey5

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 04:29 PM

Yep, I'm going to my club maker tomorrow to bend some short irons even flatter. I don't like the look of a toe up iron at address either.

Ten or so years ago when the Hope was at The Classic Club I watched Jerry Kelly on the range slam a long iron toe down into the grass, step on the hosel and pull on the shaft. After he wiggles it out of the dirt, the caddie cleans up the head, and he hits a few. He did this two more times until he liked the results. Put the club in the bag and walked over to the first tee. He's a hockey player.


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#16 bluedot

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:20 AM

It always amuses me when people say that it does NOT matter, that they can adjust to anything.  Not only are they saying that they are able to do something that no Tour pro would even consider, but they are ignoring the incredibly small margins in golf.  So here's a guy that's a different size than anybody else in his foursome walking around in shoes that fit him, pants that fit him, a shirt that fits him, a hat that fits him, wearing a golf glove that fits him, but using clubs that are supposed to fit anybody.  On what planet does THAT make ANY sense?

Think of it this way: Depending on the course and set makeup, only considering full swings, you are going to hit AT LEAST 18 full swing iron shots during most rounds.  Suppose that the 2* lie angle change makes for a ONE yard difference in ball flight.  How many times have you missed by three feet and ended up in a bunker?  In the water?  In the rough?  In the fringe instead of on the green?  How many putts would you make if you were three feet closer a few times a round?  How many strokes is that worth in a given round?

Of course, on your good days it doesn't matter THAT much; it's on the days when you don't really have much game that you need all the help you can get.  And fitted clubs are a HUGE part of that help.

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#17 kgeorge78

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:07 PM

I haven't missed a par 3 in 4 rounds since I bent my irons flat.  That is insane.  Maybe coincidence but I don't think so.
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#18 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:10 PM

It's good to see you are thanking Hey-Zeus for your lie angle epiphany
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#19 oxtail

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:34 PM

View PostOBbogey5, on 18 June 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

Yep, I'm going to my club maker tomorrow to bend some short irons even flatter. I don't like the look of a toe up iron at address either.

Ten or so years ago when the Hope was at The Classic Club I watched Jerry Kelly on the range slam a long iron toe down into the grass, step on the hosel and pull on the shaft. After he wiggles it out of the dirt, the caddie cleans up the head, and he hits a few. He did this two more times until he liked the results. Put the club in the bag and walked over to the first tee. He's a hockey player.

I'm gonna get some funny looks at the range tomorrow, hehe.
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#20 Cwebb

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:07 PM

Yeah, there's some guys on tour who fit lie angle exclusively by ball flight.  Paying little/no attention to what the sole angle is at impact.

If a players dispersion is consistently in the pull direction,....should at least try some flatter clubs.  If impact pattern on the face is good and ball flight improves....why not


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#21 wundej

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 04:31 AM

View Postkgeorge78, on 19 June 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

I haven't missed a par 3 in 4 rounds since I bent my irons flat.  That is insane.  Maybe coincidence but I don't think so.
Is there such a thing as a "poster's curse"?

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#22 Typhoon92

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:02 AM

View PostBIG STU, on 16 June 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

Absolutely it does make a difference. Now to show you how everyone's swing is different the adjustments you stated for you I am just the opposite. If the club is too upright for me I will hit blocks and if it is too flat I can hook it off the planet. One of the reasons I am a big proponent of getting clubs fit for one's individual swing by a fitter that knows what they are doing.

Yep my friend seems like you have seen the light which is a good thing

A big +1 to that Stu.  I'm 5'5"-5-6" tall depending on what convenience store I happen to be walking out of.  I used the static fitting from Ping and was 2 degrees flat....
All I could so was hit big hooks.

I went to a demo day and the Ping guy there put me on a lie board and after a few hits gave me a green color code...2 degrees upright and it was magic.

My new I irons are 1 degree up now.

It's the way u swing.  I tend to make myself taller at impact so 1-2 up is for me!

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#23 kgeorge78

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:16 AM

View Postwundej, on 20 June 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

View Postkgeorge78, on 19 June 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

I haven't missed a par 3 in 4 rounds since I bent my irons flat.  That is insane.  Maybe coincidence but I don't think so.
Is there such a thing as a "poster's curse"?


ill let you know in 3 hours!
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#24 manima1

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:38 AM

Interesting... I got a very different consensus response when I posted about lie angle several months ago.  Most said .5 degree would make little to no difference and was not worth the hassle:

http://www.golfwrx.c...any-difference/
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#25 kgeorge78

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:34 AM

View Postmanima1, on 20 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Interesting... I got a very different consensus response when I posted about lie angle several months ago.  Most said .5 degree would make little to no difference and was not worth the hassle:

http://www.golfwrx.c...any-difference/

0.5 no - 2 yes

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#26 Matt J

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:41 AM

I try and get within a half, but it's tough.  Most specs are written within a half.  Obviously someone with Crenshaws talent it matters.

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#27 Tcann32

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:53 AM

It makes a huge difference. It can change the takeaway, address, deliver, etc, etc, etc.

I've actually been fit TWICE for clubs that are 1-2* upright, as a guy under 6' tall. It shocked the hell outta me to find that out, but boy, what a difference it makes. I have a flat swing, so a flatter lie just seems like it'd make sense, when combined with my height, BUT, I have a rather steep AOA, and if the clubs are too flat, I just scoop and slide through / under the ball. It makes it harder with mid-long irons as the heel of the club will catch now and again, but overall, a little upright gives me the most consistency.
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#28 JimNewton

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:38 AM

As your swing evolves your lie angles need to be revisited from time to time to keep things lined up.  I've developed a much flatter (better) swing over the past couple years and have to keep bumping the clubs flat.  I think I may do another half degree this week as the mid irons have been generally to the left the past several rounds.

Dynamic lie test with the vertical sharpie is good to start and get a baseline / general area, but on course ball flight over time is really what to pay attention too.

3/8" length progression, 1* lie progression, 0.5 SW progression makes for a good set.  A rough wrist to floor and MOI match through the set.
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#29 KPH808

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:55 AM

I've always been standard L/L/L for as long as I can remember. Was fitted twice last year and still at standard lie. A few weeks ago, I got fit for the new epic irons just for the hell of it. What I saw is that at impact I'm getting steep so I need to be a degree or two upright to get back to standard at impact.

Eye opening experience, my misses made more sense and so did my divots. Like JimNewton said, our swings evolve over time and need to check our lie angles from time to time.
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#30 Cwebb

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

View Postmanima1, on 20 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Interesting... I got a very different consensus response when I posted about lie angle several months ago.  Most said .5 degree would make little to no difference and was not worth the hassle:

http://www.golfwrx.c...any-difference/

It depends on a what someone defines as a "significant" or "noticeable" difference.  If we have a player who will notice a difference of 3-6 feet with a lofted wedge....and wants their equipment to be as precise as possible, then yes a 1/2" change (especially with a wedge) could be worth it.

The key is testing in a way that makes it more readily "noticeable".  Such as testing on the same day, from the same spot, at the same target

Edited by Cwebb, 20 June 2017 - 01:56 PM.


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