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Fall of Scotty


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#31 Browns71213

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 12:00 PM

Me, I've never understood the whole Scotty thing, but people seem to love them and he doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. As far as the chasing the mallet fad, there appears to be more and more users on tour and and we, the sheepish public, follow what we see the pro's using so it makes sense to be where the trends are. I see tons of copies of the Odyssey Versa 7 mallet by large and small manufacturers who are simply following the money.

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#32 LeoLeo99

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 12:29 PM

View PostBrowns71213, on 18 June 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Me, I've never understood the whole Scotty thing, but people seem to love them and he doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. As far as the chasing the mallet fad, there appears to be more and more users on tour and and we, the sheepish public, follow what we see the pro's using so it makes sense to be where the trends are. I see tons of copies of the Odyssey Versa 7 mallet by large and small manufacturers who are simply following the money.

I don't get it, either.  I rented some clubs a month ago and the putter was a Newport 2.  Didn't impress me.  Prefer my old Anser a lot more.

But the Scotty is a very nice looking putter.  Those 3 circles and the zig-zag lettering have become iconic.

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#33 Pcola Ken

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 12:38 PM

The Cameron threads on Golfwrx remind me of the Gibson threads on the guitar forums.  Scotty Cameron putters are the Gibson Les Pauls of the golf world.  You can literally swap them out for each other on any thread and it still works.  Like this:

- I can't believe Gibson/Scotty raised the price of Les Pauls/Newports again!  I will never buy one at that price.  They/he has lost it.

- The current production Les Pauls/Selects are garbage.  If you like the current model, you are an idiot.

- Everyone knows the really good Les Pauls/Scottys are the older models.  The new ones don't have mojo.

- Gibson/Scotty is going down!  Their business model is broken.  No one is buying that crap at that price.

- If you want a real Les Paul/Newport, you have to spend thousands of dollars.  The basic production models are so inferior in every way.  

- I can't believe someone would pay thousands of dollars for a Les Paul/Newport when I could get a true custom guitar/putter from a small builder/maker for less money.  Anyone who buys a Custom Shop Les Paul/Circle T Newport is an idiot with too much money.

I could literally go on for DAYS.  They are the exact same threads.  Can we please just stop?  I'm still ashamed that I bit on the troll's post...

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#34 conversationpiece

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 03:17 PM

Not "trolling" anyone, just wanted to know if anybody actually agreed with my points. And yes, I'm sure people have been saying the same thing about Scotty for 10 years. However, nothing has improved since then, maybe the message isn't so alarmist anymore.

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#35 Scotty1140

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 03:38 PM

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ping... why buy the copy when you can buy the original... for less.
I'm sorry but IMO, modern Ping's are awful. One forgettable line after another. If Cameron released a Newport that looks like some of the recent Anser's they would be flamed from every direction.

Them being the original is about the one thing they have over Cameron.

And I own no Cameron's and a ton of old Ping putters.


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#36 dingusflingers

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 04:13 PM

View Postconversationpiece, on 18 June 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Not "trolling" anyone, just wanted to know if anybody actually agreed with my points. And yes, I'm sure people have been saying the same thing about Scotty for 10 years. However, nothing has improved since then, maybe the message isn't so alarmist anymore.

There's more competition at that price range now so no doubt they've been losing market share. Also doesn't help that the recent lineups are not as eye catching as the older stuff.

They'll be okay but I'd expect the newer entries into the premium market to take little nibbles out of Scotty. Evnroll, Toulon, seem to be popular enough and they have the distribution channels to get into average golfer's hands. The real boutique guys will always be there as well.

Golfers have options now and that's not the best thing for Scotty.
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#37 BEND OF THE RIVER GC

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ping... why buy the copy when you can buy the original... for less.

If Ping would just start "milling"some putters I would buy a few!
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#38 Pingfitz

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 04:52 PM

View PostBEND OF THE RIVER GC, on 18 June 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ping... why buy the copy when you can buy the original... for less.

If Ping would just start "milling"some putters I would buy a few!

They had an anser milled line a few years ago, 6 models, great feel, IMO.

Edited by Pingfitz, 18 June 2017 - 04:53 PM.


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#39 BEND OF THE RIVER GC

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 07:28 PM

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

View PostBEND OF THE RIVER GC, on 18 June 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ping... why buy the copy when you can buy the original... for less.

If Ping would just start "milling"some putters I would buy a few!

They had an anser milled line a few years ago, 6 models, great feel, IMO.

Not 100% milled I dont think, just the faces. They could easily do it, not sure why they dont.
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#40 Thrillhouse

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 07:31 PM

View Postdingusflingers, on 18 June 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

View Postconversationpiece, on 18 June 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Not "trolling" anyone, just wanted to know if anybody actually agreed with my points. And yes, I'm sure people have been saying the same thing about Scotty for 10 years. However, nothing has improved since then, maybe the message isn't so alarmist anymore.

There's more competition at that price range now so no doubt they've been losing market share. Also doesn't help that the recent lineups are not as eye catching as the older stuff.

They'll be okay but I'd expect the newer entries into the premium market to take little nibbles out of Scotty. Evnroll, Toulon, seem to be popular enough and they have the distribution channels to get into average golfer's hands. The real boutique guys will always be there as well.

Golfers have options now and that's not the best thing for Scotty.

This is true. Before Scotty showed up no one believed you could get people to pay $400 for a putter. Now that we know that people will the market has expanded.


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#41 BurnleyShank

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 07:56 PM

View PostPingfitz, on 18 June 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

They had an anser milled line a few years ago, 6 models, great feel, IMO.

Isn't the Vault line 100% milled as well? I have an Anser Milled 2, wonderful feel, and I just love the sound when it rolls off the face. If I were any good with that style putter, I'd be playing it.

On the topic of Scottys, I've really never seen anything in a shop that even comes close to the quality of the camerons sitting on the rack. They're beautiful, incredibly well made and I honestly agree with the man himself, when you love your putter (and when you have a nice milled one, that's definitely true) you can't wait to get out and practice with it, and that improves your putting.

This is only anecdotal, but in off the cuff conversations with my fitter, they're selling more Scottys than ever. They said people love them even when the SAM data shows they're putting better with a 2-ball than an X7M/Newport, but they'll buy the Scotty on name and those 3 red circles on the back.

IMO they lost me at the inserts on the newer models, personal taste but I'm not a fan of inserts. Definitely can't say that Scotty's falling.

Edited by BurnleyShank, 18 June 2017 - 08:01 PM.

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| Fairway Wood:  Titleist 915F 3W 15o Diamana Blue (Tipped 1") @42"    |
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#42 RVAUSMC

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:37 PM

View PostMatt J, on 17 June 2017 - 12:07 AM, said:

They sell more putters for more money than anyone else, so I think they're doing all right.

Expensive sunglasses are locked in cases too, but if you ask an employee to unlock it, they're very accommodating.

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#43 orangeology

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:52 PM

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#44 Shakester

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:15 PM

I see the emergence of all these high end putter companies that are trying to get a piece of the market and they're succeeding to an extent.  But I feel Cameron will have his named stamped on a lot of putters on the tours.  More than anyone in the business as well.  He has proven products.  My Newport is 15 years old and it feels much nicer than most of these other putters that I've been trying and that includes the newer Camerons as well.
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#45 KarstenK

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:49 PM

View PostSocrates, on 17 June 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Do you ever wonder why a person would pick a topic like that as their first post and then never follow it or reply to any posts?

Looks like a troll to me.
My thoughts exactly.

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#46 Sean2

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:55 PM

View PostRob McHugh, on 17 June 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

Regardless of how anyone feels about Scotty Cameron and his business, like Mark Twain - 'reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated'.

Rob

I agree, the horse deserved a name.
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#47 2putttom

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:37 AM

I bought a Scotty Cameron hat in Mexico last year...paid a lot of coin for it  that should keep him afloat for a while.




.




.


.









p s; I think it's a counterfeit.

Edited by 2putttom, 20 June 2017 - 11:05 AM.

W I T B
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#48 Tcann32

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:52 AM

The putter trend has just shown us all how dumb we are as consumers.

The world #1 makes a switch, uses a different, incredibly ugly putter and gets some results, (he couldn't have putt much worse, so a new hair style might've even made a difference at the time) and BAM, everyones on the band wagon. I'm not saying it's a bad putter, but come on... the amount of those things sold was crazy, and it's a putter that fits about as many people as a Scotty X7, which also sold a ton when Scott was on top of the rankings.  Guess what putter I see being re-sold more than any other particular model on the boards? Yup, the one everyone bought because someone on tour was winning with one. Once someone else starts winning consistently with something else, everyone will go for it. Again, I'm not saying it's not a great putter, but that's an odd fit for a lot of people, and for them to sell out online tells you that people were only concerned about owning what the best golfer in the world was playing.

I will say that I see a lot of putters out there that aren't Camerons now, though, both on the course and in the WITB of tour guys. Other companies are finally designing putters that aren't just there to compete in the sense of someone who doesn't want to spend $400 on a putter, but they're actually making really good putters now.

I think Camerons move to up the price point was a mistake. He charged more for the new models, that were uglier and didn't seem to have the Cameron touch that some of the older putters had, and it's not panning out so well. Want a great insert putter? It's tough to beat odyssey, but if you wanted a pure milled putter, Scotty was your go to, and now those options are dwindling. Scotty still has a very large market share, especially when it comes to the expensive stuff, but in current times, there's less of a reason to buy his product, than before.
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#49 ratdg1

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:58 AM

As long as Scotty Cameron is part of the Titleist/Acushnet behemoth, it will continue to do well.  To me, the more interesting question is how long the secondary market for headcovers, grips, etc. holds up.  I've always thought that seemed like the very definition of a bubble market.
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#50 Voltron

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:03 AM

View PostBEND OF THE RIVER GC, on 17 June 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Scotty has peaked and is on a downhill slide, mark my words. They are just fleecing everyone (the lemmings anyway) now. The best Camerons are the ones over 10 years old.
This.


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#51 maverick

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:03 PM

I've seen the same Circle T putters going round and round on the bay since the first of the year. Now that the #1 golfer in the world is not using them and the cameras show different putters in the hands of the top players they are not so desired to bring those lofty ridicules prices. JMHO Now that I trashed the 3,4,5K+ prices for Circle T putters I will be called a Cameron hater. That would be totally inaccurate. It's the prices, not the man nor his putters. Also I don't do inserts so the new ones don't even get a look.

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#52 009

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:25 PM

I guess if one's definition of "Fall" is:  

-  43 worldwide Tour victories with your putters in 2017, including the Players and U.S. Open

- Opening new brick and mortar Galleries worldwide in the last couple of years

- Selling out $2500+ Tour putters on your online Gallery website every week  

- I could go on and on...

Then, yes, Scotty Cameron has fallen mightily   :rolleyes:

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#53 RecidivistGOLFER

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:09 PM

View Postconversationpiece, on 15 June 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Is Scotty Cameron losing his grip on the putter industry? It seems so. Recent designs have shifted towards large mallets taking after other manufacturers. Even newer versions of classic designs such as the Newport have lost the luster and luxury feel that older models had. Is Titleist/Cameron shifting towards the mass-consumerist approach, chasing the profits and getting away from their roots? They may be chasing the $ now but in the end it may be a fatal blunder. The rise of custom putter companies and competition between them has made them more prevalent and much more popular. Scotty continues to keep putters locked up in the glass at retail stores while the newest Bettinardi line sits out next to it, asking to be tried out. What's the market for a Cameron putter now? Custom market is flooded with highly skilled putter makers alongside equal or greater quality milled putter companies at a lower pricepoint. The mid-price putter market is owned by Odyssey and even Cleveland. How much longer will people pay for the Scotty Cameron name?

I own a Scotty because my first, best putter was a Tei3 copy.  Since I can't find the copy, I bought an original in good, gamer condition.  That said, you gotta hand it to the guy... he's made one hell of a business model convincing very wealthy golfers to pay 3X for off-the-rack stuff what they would pay with any other competitor.  The most egregious is probably in the accessories (bags, head covers, etc.) $1500 for a stand bag, are you f'ing kidding me?   Is a 2017 newport stainless a nice putter?  Sure.  Is it better putter than a $150 odyssey at 1/2 the price, or a Cleveland Huntington Beach at 1/3 the price?  Not in my opinion.  With $300-$400 to spend on a putter, I'd buy the putter I love: a Tei3 from the late 90's and have it refinished.  Which... is exactly what I did.
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#54 cardoustie

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:17 PM

I met Scotty last year.  Super guy FWIW

Cameron putters are like the ProV1 .. lots of tour use = lots of casual golfers wanting SC's.  

The non Wrx'r does not know about Lajosi, Toulon, Byron or even Bettinardi, etc etc

And I have to say I really like my current putter with the 25g weights in it
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#55 cardoustie

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 02:28 PM

these threads also crack me up from a general consumerism perspective

Some brands are premium and priced accordingly ... and they work well in that model ... PXG in golf

I don't think car buyers gripe that a Porsche 911 turbo is $100k + more than a Miata.   And the guys buying $1mm cars .. where do they stand?

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#56 maverick

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 05:05 PM

View Post009, on 20 June 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I guess if one's definition of "Fall" is:  

-  43 worldwide Tour victories with your putters in 2017, including the Players and U.S. Open

- Opening new brick and mortar Galleries worldwide in the last couple of years

- Selling out $2500+ Tour putters on your online Gallery website every week  

- I could go on and on...

Then, yes, Scotty Cameron has fallen mightily   :rolleyes:

If I was given one for free you bet I would bag it if it fit my putting preferences. There are approx 100 Circle T putters FS on eBay now. You better tell the guys waiting at the online Gallery.

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#57 Thrillhouse

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 05:43 PM

View Postmaverick, on 20 June 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

View Post009, on 20 June 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I guess if one's definition of "Fall" is:  

-  43 worldwide Tour victories with your putters in 2017, including the Players and U.S. Open

- Opening new brick and mortar Galleries worldwide in the last couple of years

- Selling out $2500+ Tour putters on your online Gallery website every week  

- I could go on and on...

Then, yes, Scotty Cameron has fallen mightily   :rolleyes:

If I was given one for free you bet I would bag it if it fit my putting preferences. There are approx 100 Circle T putters FS on eBay now. You better tell the guys waiting at the online Gallery.

Personally there are only three places I would buy a circle t from because I would want to make sure I'm getting an authentic one:

1. Pro clubs on eBay (isaacbm and I know the guys who run it so we know it's all legit)

2. One of the high end private clubs that sells them in the shop

3. The gallery

I'd happily pay the premium over an eBay "deal" to know I'm getting an authentic circle t.

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#58 platgof

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:23 PM

I decided to get fleeced and picked up an X5R. I really like the soft touch. I am still getting used to it and have already made some putts that were very good. In fact if you use a Scotty, the hole gives up and grows an extra inch, amazing!

Edited by platgof, 20 June 2017 - 06:25 PM.

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#59 Bushwood Country Club

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:29 PM

View Postconversationpiece, on 15 June 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Is Scotty Cameron losing his grip on the putter industry? It seems so. Recent designs have shifted towards large mallets taking after other manufacturers. Even newer versions of classic designs such as the Newport have lost the luster and luxury feel that older models had. Is Titleist/Cameron shifting towards the mass-consumerist approach, chasing the profits and getting away from their roots? They may be chasing the $ now but in the end it may be a fatal blunder. The rise of custom putter companies and competition between them has made them more prevalent and much more popular. Scotty continues to keep putters locked up in the glass at retail stores while the newest Bettinardi line sits out next to it, asking to be tried out. What's the market for a Cameron putter now? Custom market is flooded with highly skilled putter makers alongside equal or greater quality milled putter companies at a lower pricepoint. The mid-price putter market is owned by Odyssey and even Cleveland. How much longer will people pay for the Scotty Cameron name?
There more unproven assertions in this paragraph than a month's worth of CNN headlines... I've probably seen 3 Bettinardis on the course in 15 years, and about 20,000 Camerons.
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#60 Bushwood Country Club

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:31 PM

View Postmaverick, on 20 June 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

I've seen the same Circle T putters going round and round on the bay since the first of the year. Now that the #1 golfer in the world is not using them and the cameras show different putters in the hands of the top players they are not so desired to bring those lofty ridicules prices. JMHO Now that I trashed the 3,4,5K+ prices for Circle T putters I will be called a Cameron hater. That would be totally inaccurate. It's the prices, not the man nor his putters. Also I don't do inserts so the new ones don't even get a look.
Meanwhile, Koepka wins the US Open with a Newport Buttonback.....

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