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Who here has played Pine Valley?


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#1 Burt Chance

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:17 PM

This course fascinates me because it's so exclusive. For those who have played it, what are your thoughts on the course?

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#2 Highgolfer07

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:50 PM

I played PV in college and it was a great course.  Very unique with the overall layout and the greens were treacherous.  They have an invitational there each year that might be the best route to ever play the course.
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#3 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:47 PM

I am playing Merion once and Pine Valley twice in the next 3 weeks. I have never played it but am tickled pink to have the opportunity. My buddy and I are actually staying on the property in one of their cabins.



I am playing Merion once and Pine Valley twice in the next 3 weeks. I have never played it but am tickled pink to have the opportunity. My buddy and I are actually staying on the property in one of their cabins.



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#4 Fore Putt

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:12 PM

I've been fortunate to play there twice. Any club anywhere near that caliber is going to be a great experience, but PV is second to none. Augusta National comes close but it's hard to even compare because ANGC has a certain mystique few other clubs could ever match because everyone knows every single hole there thanks to the tournament.

As soon as you cross the train tracks and pass through the gate, you feel you're in the middle of nowhere. The staff is phenomenal and very welcoming/helpful...not stuffy at all.

The golf course is unreal. It's hard to say it's "fun," since it's so difficult, but it is fun. The design is incredibly varied...long and short par 3s, long and short par 4s, straight par 4s, dogleg lefts, dogleg rights, etc. Lots of forced carries, but none are impossible. When you're standing over a shot, you're mind is led to believe that there's a very small margin for error...however, once you get to the green and look back towards the tee you'll realize the fairways and greens are actually pretty generous...the design just tricks you visually. That being said, if you miss a fairway or green, it's very difficult to recover.

Number 6 is a perfect example of the design and stategy in my opinion..."longish" par 4, dogleg right. If you want to hit a hero shot, there's a forced carry that leaves you a short iron or wedge into the green. But the landing area on that line is small and if you miss it you're dead. Or you can safely play left off the tee to a huge fairway...but then you've got a long iron into the green. The choice is yours.

Such a cool place. If you ever get a chance to go, jump at it!

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#5 snowdayz

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

View PostFore Putt, on 20 June 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

I've been fortunate to play there twice. Any club anywhere near that caliber is going to be a great experience, but PV is second to none. Augusta National comes close but it's hard to even compare because ANGC has a certain mystique few other clubs could ever match because everyone knows every single hole there thanks to the tournament.

As soon as you cross the train tracks and pass through the gate, you feel you're in the middle of nowhere. The staff is phenomenal and very welcoming/helpful...not stuffy at all.

The golf course is unreal. It's hard to say it's "fun," since it's so difficult, but it is fun. The design is incredibly varied...long and short par 3s, long and short par 4s, straight par 4s, dogleg lefts, dogleg rights, etc. Lots of forced carries, but none are impossible. When you're standing over a shot, you're mind is led to believe that there's a very small margin for error...however, once you get to the green and look back towards the tee you'll realize the fairways and greens are actually pretty generous...the design just tricks you visually. That being said, if you miss a fairway or green, it's very difficult to recover.

Number 6 is a perfect example of the design and stategy in my opinion..."longish" par 4, dogleg right. If you want to hit a hero shot, there's a forced carry that leaves you a short iron or wedge into the green. But the landing area on that line is small and if you miss it you're dead. Or you can safely play left off the tee to a huge fairway...but then you've got a long iron into the green. The choice is yours.

Such a cool place. If you ever get a chance to go, jump at it!

Nice write up Fore Putt, sounds awesome!


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#6 Ktrain

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 08:45 PM

Just got back from there as I played in their Member Guest last weekend. I played it last year for first time for 3 days-4rounds.. This past weekend was the same. A friend of mine at my local club grew up on east coast and has been a member for 41 yrs.. He has many stories and I have learned a lot about the place and course through him.. I absolutely love that place and is my favorite course by far.. I feel like I could answer some questions so don't be afraid to ask. Lol. I love to share the experience as best I could!!!

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#7 Ktrain

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

View PostFore Putt, on 20 June 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

I've been fortunate to play there twice. Any club anywhere near that caliber is going to be a great experience, but PV is second to none. Augusta National comes close but it's hard to even compare because ANGC has a certain mystique few other clubs could ever match because everyone knows every single hole there thanks to the tournament.

As soon as you cross the train tracks and pass through the gate, you feel you're in the middle of nowhere. The staff is phenomenal and very welcoming/helpful...not stuffy at all.

The golf course is unreal. It's hard to say it's "fun," since it's so difficult, but it is fun. The design is incredibly varied...long and short par 3s, long and short par 4s, straight par 4s, dogleg lefts, dogleg rights, etc. Lots of forced carries, but none are impossible. When you're standing over a shot, you're mind is led to believe that there's a very small margin for error...however, once you get to the green and look back towards the tee you'll realize the fairways and greens are actually pretty generous...the design just tricks you visually. That being said, if you miss a fairway or green, it's very difficult to recover.

Number 6 is a perfect example of the design and stategy in my opinion..."longish" par 4, dogleg right. If you want to hit a hero shot, there's a forced carry that leaves you a short iron or wedge into the green. But the landing area on that line is small and if you miss it you're dead. Or you can safely play left off the tee to a huge fairway...but then you've got a long iron into the green. The choice is yours.

Such a cool place. If you ever get a chance to go, jump at it!
This is definitely a good description of PV for sure..

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#8 Philly Golf Guy

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:12 AM

I've been fortunate to play PV this season.  Exceeded expectations, that's for sure.  I wrote up my thoughts here:

http://bestphillygol...f-club.html?m=1


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#9 krtgolfing

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:24 AM

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#10 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.


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#11 Philly Golf Guy

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:41 AM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

What courses would you rank above it?

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#12 FairwayFred

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 10:16 AM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

I agree with this assessment also.  Great course but not number 1 in my book.  Probably closer to 20 on my list than 1.  There is a lot of great there my favorite part of the course is the green complexes.  They have very cool unique organic shapes. They are also contoured in a way that you can get creative and get the ball close to the hole on what looks like an impossible cross green putt.  The bunkering and overall aesthetic are great.  There is great variety to the holes which is very important to me.  The big negatives to me, I think there are 2 holes that are below average (12 & 14) and a few others that are average at best, the fairways are painfully flat in most spots, there is no little micro undulations in the fairways that add a level of interest and less than perfect lies, I don't like the extra greens on 8 and 9 and think both would be much better holes with only the original green.  Overall fantastic golf course but just too many negatives to be number one in the world.
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#13 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 01:15 PM

View PostPhilly Golf Guy, on 21 June 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

What courses would you rank above it?

I guess the course I thought were better golf courses that required shotmaking and had better set ups:

Sand Hills
Ocean Course
Harbour Town
Bethpage Black
Marion

Just off the top of my head...and courses I found much more enjoyable:

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Whistling Straits

Just to name a couple



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#14 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:32 PM

I am so excited to play there in a couple of weeks. I went out today as part of my preparation and shot a career best round. I am so glad I used all those birdies up today.


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#15 CMCSGolf

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:55 PM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostPhilly Golf Guy, on 21 June 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

What courses would you rank above it?

I guess the course I thought were better golf courses that required shotmaking and had better set ups:

Sand Hills
Ocean Course
Harbour Town
Bethpage Black
Marion

Just off the top of my head...and courses I found much more enjoyable:

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Whistling Straits

Just to name a couple

Interesting thoughts. What did you find more enjoyable about Whistling Straits?  I haven't played PV, but I did not enjoy the straits.  I didn't love the look of the place and as far as playability, I though it was difficult and long. The overabundance of bunkers makes recoveries harder and the windiness of the site on a long course really wore on me throughout the day.  I've heard PV is exceedingly penal, so this comparison surprised me next to the other two courses at Bandon you listed, which are so much fun to play.


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#16 Drudersh

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 06:06 PM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostPhilly Golf Guy, on 21 June 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

What courses would you rank above it?

I guess the course I thought were better golf courses that required shotmaking and had better set ups:

Sand Hills
Ocean Course
Harbour Town
Bethpage Black
Marion

Just off the top of my head...and courses I found much more enjoyable:

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Whistling Straits

Just to name a couple

While I agree with you that PV shouldn't be #1 in the rankings, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Harbour Town is a better set up, or any other course on that list. There's also not a single hole out at Pine Valley that doesn't require shotmaking, and the majority of them not only require it but give you distinctly different options as to how you'd like to execute the hole. There's no way you can put an iron of the tee swampland course like Harbour Town above PV.

Merion isn't even regarded as the best in Philly by those who live here and most people will tell you that Aronimink, Philly Cricket etc. are better courses.

Augusta deserves every accolade it has ever received.
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#17 Ktrain

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:22 PM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostPhilly Golf Guy, on 21 June 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'll be the contrarian I guess. I think it only gets its ranking because it's so exclusive. I've played there probably a dozen times now and overall I think the course is ok, but not worthy of #1. I would say the same about ANGC though. Writers give it this rating in hopes of being able to play it so that they can. There are better layouts and golf courses than both of those that I've played. I don't think the course is all that difficult outside of #5. 18 is a little goofy in that traffic has to stop to wait for you to hit over the entrance road or you have to wave them through. The 1970s style clubhouse with the small pro shop isn't really my thing either like I know it is for others. Really good course, just not #1.

What courses would you rank above it?

I guess the course I thought were better golf courses that required shotmaking and had better set ups:

Sand Hills
Ocean Course
Harbour Town
Bethpage Black
Marion

Just off the top of my head...and courses I found much more enjoyable:

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Whistling Straits

Just to name a couple
A lot of great courses on that list, EXCEPT Harbour Town! Harbour Town isn't on the same planet as PV!!!! IMO

Edited by Ktrain, 21 June 2017 - 07:23 PM.


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#18 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

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#19 Philly Golf Guy

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:44 AM

I mean, everyone is different but I don't think there's any chance that PV is simply ranked as high as it is because it's exclusive and guys want to play it so they rank it that high.  There are far more exclusive courses that don't fare as well in the rankings.

The courses you mention are all good courses but with the exception of Sand Hills and Merion East, aren't in the same league IMO.

One of the great things about PV is how it incorporates so many design philosophies, so Hugh Wilson that designed Merion was involved, Tilly who designed Bethpage was involved, etc., so you get a lot of the components of the courses you mention with superb routing.

It's very much a shotmaker's course; the par 3's alone establish that, as there is very little room for error, and it's known as one of the toughest second shot courses in the world.  The Pine and waste areas are penal, but give you a chance of recovery if you execute your shot well.  Harbour Town literally copied this from PV in large part.

And the comment on the greens not being complex or being bland, I simply don't get.  I've never heard of someone even hinting at that before, but like I said to each his own.

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#20 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 09:12 AM

That's the fun thing about golf course rankings. I think Trump International in Aberdeen is the best course I've played anywhere and a lot of people would call me crazy. It's fun discussing what each and everyone's favorite is.


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#21 Drudersh

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.
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#22 mattsam

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 09:52 AM

This thread must be a joke!  Whistling Straits more enjoyable?  Bland putting surfaces?  
I'm just working my into Mid-Atlantic golf in the next few weeks.  Going to play a few renowned courses, PV not being one of them.  I've been trying to study the great courses in the US for the last 10 years, but I am only just getting that direction.
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#23 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 09:54 AM

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.

You seem really hurt my opinions...I always find it interesting when people get so hurt if someone else doesn't think their favorite course isn't also that person's favorite course. I've already said that PV is a very good course, just not #1.

#2 and PV are similar to me from tee up to the green, that's where they differ. #2's green surfaces are much more penal to me in that the pin positions to the run off areas can be brutal. But from tee box to fairway, they are similar: fairways surrounded by waste areas that are surrounded by pines. That's where I was drawing a comparison.

As far as the green structures go, I just have never found them all that tough. They aren't tougher than #2, Straits or Pacific Dunes. Sure, you can put yourself in some bad spots, but I've yet to find a high level course that you can't put yourself in tough spots. I've always found them easy to read, usually agreeing with my caddie. The collection of par 3s make the course in my opinion, but I could say the same for this past week's US Open when I played Erin Hills. Nice course, but without the par 3s I wouldn't remember much outside of 1 and 10.

Regarding narrow courses, if you've never played Harbour Town you wouldn't understand that you can hit it in the fairway and have no shot to the green. You have to hit it in the right part of the fairway to have a chance. Miss by a little and it's penal. Merion is similar in that you have to hit the fairway, but most importantly have the right miss if you don't. I could spray it at PV and still have a decent chance of hitting the green.

Again, I like PV. I just wouldn't rank it #1 or in my top 8 or so...but that's ok...it's ok to have a different opinion.

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#24 krtgolfing

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:03 AM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 22 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.

You seem really hurt my opinions...I always find it interesting when people get so hurt if someone else doesn't think their favorite course isn't also that person's favorite course. I've already said that PV is a very good course, just not #1.

#2 and PV are similar to me from tee up to the green, that's where they differ. #2's green surfaces are much more penal to me in that the pin positions to the run off areas can be brutal. But from tee box to fairway, they are similar: fairways surrounded by waste areas that are surrounded by pines. That's where I was drawing a comparison.

As far as the green structures go, I just have never found them all that tough. They aren't tougher than #2, Straits or Pacific Dunes. Sure, you can put yourself in some bad spots, but I've yet to find a high level course that you can't put yourself in tough spots. I've always found them easy to read, usually agreeing with my caddie. The collection of par 3s make the course in my opinion, but I could say the same for this past week's US Open when I played Erin Hills. Nice course, but without the par 3s I wouldn't remember much outside of 1 and 10.

Regarding narrow courses, if you've never played Harbour Town you wouldn't understand that you can hit it in the fairway and have no shot to the green. You have to hit it in the right part of the fairway to have a chance. Miss by a little and it's penal. Merion is similar in that you have to hit the fairway, but most importantly have the right miss if you don't. I could spray it at PV and still have a decent chance of hitting the green.

Again, I like PV. I just wouldn't rank it #1 or in my top 8 or so...but that's ok...it's ok to have a different opinion.

A lot of people get bent out of shape on these forums if you disagree with their opinions. I think Harbour Town is a junk course but I know plenty of people who love it. It is the same with music as people have their preferences/ genres. SMH
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#25 Drudersh

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:57 AM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 22 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.

You seem really hurt my opinions...I always find it interesting when people get so hurt if someone else doesn't think their favorite course isn't also that person's favorite course. I've already said that PV is a very good course, just not #1.

#2 and PV are similar to me from tee up to the green, that's where they differ. #2's green surfaces are much more penal to me in that the pin positions to the run off areas can be brutal. But from tee box to fairway, they are similar: fairways surrounded by waste areas that are surrounded by pines. That's where I was drawing a comparison.

As far as the green structures go, I just have never found them all that tough. They aren't tougher than #2, Straits or Pacific Dunes. Sure, you can put yourself in some bad spots, but I've yet to find a high level course that you can't put yourself in tough spots. I've always found them easy to read, usually agreeing with my caddie. The collection of par 3s make the course in my opinion, but I could say the same for this past week's US Open when I played Erin Hills. Nice course, but without the par 3s I wouldn't remember much outside of 1 and 10.

Regarding narrow courses, if you've never played Harbour Town you wouldn't understand that you can hit it in the fairway and have no shot to the green. You have to hit it in the right part of the fairway to have a chance. Miss by a little and it's penal. Merion is similar in that you have to hit the fairway, but most importantly have the right miss if you don't. I could spray it at PV and still have a decent chance of hitting the green.

Again, I like PV. I just wouldn't rank it #1 or in my top 8 or so...but that's ok...it's ok to have a different opinion.

I said right away I agree with you that Pine Valley shouldn't be so high in the rankings. It's your reasoning that is blowing my mind here. I acknowledge your right to your opinion but some of this things you are saying simply aren't true. You can spray it into the pine barrons at PV and still have a look at the green? Really? Are you being serious? On which holes out there can you have a look at the green if you miss the fairway or are in the wrong position off the tee? There is very little waste area surrounding the fairways at PV and some holes have none at all, and 2 paces off the fairway on those holes you are in the trees. The majority of the waste areas at PV are forced carries or reside within the fairway.

It's not that I'm in love with the course, I'm not. There are 4-5 courses in Philadelphia alone that I like better than PV. It's more the fact that you're passively bragging about how easy the course is while simultaneously describing it so inaccurately that I can't believe it.

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#26 Mob

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:19 PM

I have played Pine Valley and Merion a bunch of times.  If I had to choose between the 2, I would take Merion in a heart beat.  It is amazing what a fun, difficult, and interesting course they have created over a 100 years ago, on such a tiny piece of land.  The shots you have to be able to hit out there include pretty much everything.  I have played Aroniminck and Philly Cricket and I do not think they compare to Merion.

Pine Valley is a special place, a special experience, and a very impressive golf course.  It is manicured to perfection, I find the undulating greens to be very difficult, particularly if you are in the wrong part of the green.  If you miss a fairway, you had better hope you land in a waste area, or you are in the pine trees with an unplayable lie most of the time.  There is a lot of visual illusion out there, as someone mentioned above.  It makes you think you have to hit certain shots, that you really don't.  The fairways are level lies, which I like.  I would rank it in my top 5 courses, but I agree, not number 1.  The club house is classically understated and old, much like many of the old exclusive clubs.  They really do need to redo it (need new furniture, rugs, paint, etc.) but I love the fact that they haven't for some reason I am not privy to.  I love 18 by the way, it is a visually stunning hole from the tee.  The fact that a road crosses the hole just doesn't bother me; part of the charm and character of the course.

Edited by Mob, 22 June 2017 - 01:27 PM.

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#27 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:56 PM

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 22 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.

You seem really hurt my opinions...I always find it interesting when people get so hurt if someone else doesn't think their favorite course isn't also that person's favorite course. I've already said that PV is a very good course, just not #1.

#2 and PV are similar to me from tee up to the green, that's where they differ. #2's green surfaces are much more penal to me in that the pin positions to the run off areas can be brutal. But from tee box to fairway, they are similar: fairways surrounded by waste areas that are surrounded by pines. That's where I was drawing a comparison.

As far as the green structures go, I just have never found them all that tough. They aren't tougher than #2, Straits or Pacific Dunes. Sure, you can put yourself in some bad spots, but I've yet to find a high level course that you can't put yourself in tough spots. I've always found them easy to read, usually agreeing with my caddie. The collection of par 3s make the course in my opinion, but I could say the same for this past week's US Open when I played Erin Hills. Nice course, but without the par 3s I wouldn't remember much outside of 1 and 10.

Regarding narrow courses, if you've never played Harbour Town you wouldn't understand that you can hit it in the fairway and have no shot to the green. You have to hit it in the right part of the fairway to have a chance. Miss by a little and it's penal. Merion is similar in that you have to hit the fairway, but most importantly have the right miss if you don't. I could spray it at PV and still have a decent chance of hitting the green.

Again, I like PV. I just wouldn't rank it #1 or in my top 8 or so...but that's ok...it's ok to have a different opinion.

I said right away I agree with you that Pine Valley shouldn't be so high in the rankings. It's your reasoning that is blowing my mind here. I acknowledge your right to your opinion but some of this things you are saying simply aren't true. You can spray it into the pine barrons at PV and still have a look at the green? Really? Are you being serious? On which holes out there can you have a look at the green if you miss the fairway or are in the wrong position off the tee? There is very little waste area surrounding the fairways at PV and some holes have none at all, and 2 paces off the fairway on those holes you are in the trees. The majority of the waste areas at PV are forced carries or reside within the fairway.

It's not that I'm in love with the course, I'm not. There are 4-5 courses in Philadelphia alone that I like better than PV. It's more the fact that you're passively bragging about how easy the course is while simultaneously describing it so inaccurately that I can't believe it.

I guess you and I are different and that's ok. The course just fits my eye and I've never found it that difficult outside of number 5. Crazy that Davis Love hit 4 iron to 6" during the Walker Cup there....but, nevertheless, maybe I've been on my game when I typically play there but Merion has always been tougher which we also play during that trip.

I will say they have the best showers of any course I've ever been too. Like taking a shower in a waterfall.

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#28 Mob

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:29 PM

Pine Valley holes # 2, 6, 18.  Judge for yourself.

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#29 Drudersh

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 22 June 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 22 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

View PostDrudersh, on 22 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 21 June 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I thoroughly enjoy Harbour Town. It is the ultimate shot makers golf course. I am a low handicap so I enjoy the challenge. I believe I remember seeing where it is one of the favorite courses on tour as well. Usually, the more punishing the more I enjoy it.

I don't know why I don't find PV that penal...it's very similar to Pinehurst #2 to me...fairways surrounded by waste area and pines. PV has some pretty bland green surfaces which #2 gets the upper hand on them there.

I know I am probably in the minority here. I've just enjoyed a lot of other courses more than PV.

And for the person that said that Philly Cricket Club is better than Merion, I completely disagree. I've never played Aronimick though.

Exactly which greens at PV would you put into the "bland" category? Right off the bat #2 and #3 are extremely penal if you're in the wrong spot on the green. You also seem to be conflating narrow courses with small greens with shot makers courses. They are not the same thing.

Pine Valley similar to Pinehurst? Really? I'm starting question whether or not you've actually played Pine Valley based on how far off base some of these claims are.

You seem really hurt my opinions...I always find it interesting when people get so hurt if someone else doesn't think their favorite course isn't also that person's favorite course. I've already said that PV is a very good course, just not #1.

#2 and PV are similar to me from tee up to the green, that's where they differ. #2's green surfaces are much more penal to me in that the pin positions to the run off areas can be brutal. But from tee box to fairway, they are similar: fairways surrounded by waste areas that are surrounded by pines. That's where I was drawing a comparison.

As far as the green structures go, I just have never found them all that tough. They aren't tougher than #2, Straits or Pacific Dunes. Sure, you can put yourself in some bad spots, but I've yet to find a high level course that you can't put yourself in tough spots. I've always found them easy to read, usually agreeing with my caddie. The collection of par 3s make the course in my opinion, but I could say the same for this past week's US Open when I played Erin Hills. Nice course, but without the par 3s I wouldn't remember much outside of 1 and 10.

Regarding narrow courses, if you've never played Harbour Town you wouldn't understand that you can hit it in the fairway and have no shot to the green. You have to hit it in the right part of the fairway to have a chance. Miss by a little and it's penal. Merion is similar in that you have to hit the fairway, but most importantly have the right miss if you don't. I could spray it at PV and still have a decent chance of hitting the green.

Again, I like PV. I just wouldn't rank it #1 or in my top 8 or so...but that's ok...it's ok to have a different opinion.

I said right away I agree with you that Pine Valley shouldn't be so high in the rankings. It's your reasoning that is blowing my mind here. I acknowledge your right to your opinion but some of this things you are saying simply aren't true. You can spray it into the pine barrons at PV and still have a look at the green? Really? Are you being serious? On which holes out there can you have a look at the green if you miss the fairway or are in the wrong position off the tee? There is very little waste area surrounding the fairways at PV and some holes have none at all, and 2 paces off the fairway on those holes you are in the trees. The majority of the waste areas at PV are forced carries or reside within the fairway.

It's not that I'm in love with the course, I'm not. There are 4-5 courses in Philadelphia alone that I like better than PV. It's more the fact that you're passively bragging about how easy the course is while simultaneously describing it so inaccurately that I can't believe it.

I guess you and I are different and that's ok. The course just fits my eye and I've never found it that difficult outside of number 5. Crazy that Davis Love hit 4 iron to 6" during the Walker Cup there....but, nevertheless, maybe I've been on my game when I typically play there but Merion has always been tougher which we also play during that trip.

I will say they have the best showers of any course I've ever been too. Like taking a shower in a waterfall.

Not entirely different as I agree with your assessment of Erin Hills. Mostly forgettable with a few good holes, and certainly the par 3's fall into that category. I would also consider that course significantly easier than PV or the Straits.

Down in your neck of the woods, I'd put Yeamans Hall up there as one of the better courses I've played, along with The Country Club, though I enjoyed Yeamens more. From a playability/enjoyment standpoint Yeamans would be right up there with PV for me, maybe slightly better.

Edited by Drudersh, 22 June 2017 - 02:14 PM.

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#30 Stylez

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:33 PM

I got to play it on a sunny 70 degree november day this past year with my brother n law and will play it again in the next few months as well as Merion. My experience was amazing.  Loved how I didnt feel like I was beneath anyone like some clubs can be in my area and the member we were with was just awesome. Me being closer to PV being in jersey made it special as it always made me want to play it more being so close to it.  First the range blew my mind. Just so big and so nice. Could of stayed on it for days. The course itself lived up to what I expected. Gorgeous, private, and difficult if you don't know where to hit. Fairways are deceivingly wider in some spot off the tee but in my experience the course deceived on some shots. The greens were flawless. The clubhouse smaller than expected but  felt like a bit of history. The snapper "turtle" soup was really good too which our member made sure we had. Ill post pictures when I get home.

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