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Danny Willett worst major champion ever?


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#61 Gem

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:13 AM

View PostMoleman, on 17 June 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

View Postjay_dwight, on 17 June 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

Dislike me a ton of Willet, and his backing asswards into a major;  but it's easily Micheel.

I know it's been pointed out regularly but how can shooting 67 on a Sunday and winning by 3 clear shots be described as 'backing into a major'?

I agree. If it had been someone more liked by the golfing public they would be praised for the birdie at 16 and two closing pars to take the win after suddenly finding you are in the lead. Backing in is more like Ogilvy did after Monty and Phill took 6 on 18 a few years back.
Even still, you can only back in if you have played 72 holes better than everyone else.

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#62 iBanesto

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:10 AM

View Postjay_dwight, on 17 June 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

Dislike me a ton of Willet, and his backing asswards into a major;  but it's easily Micheel.

Spieth choked.

Willett won.

A win is a win.

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#63 MrWolf

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:54 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 17 June 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

View Postjay_dwight, on 17 June 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

Dislike me a ton of Willet, and his backing asswards into a major;  but it's easily Micheel.

Spieth choked.

Willett won.

A win is a win.

This exactly. He shot a marvellous 67 on Sunday to win at the same time as the Golden Boy choked.

He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the idea that he "backed into a win" is laughable.
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#64 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:38 AM

View PostArpeggi, on 15 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Discuss

Redundant.


Pointless.

Edited by Hawkeye77, 17 June 2017 - 06:39 AM.


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#65 youraway2

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:28 AM

View PostHawkeye77, on 17 June 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

View PostArpeggi, on 15 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Discuss

Redundant.


Pointless.
Perfect!


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#66 Thrillhouse

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:28 AM

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

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#67 MrWolf

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:40 AM

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

Edited by WolfWRX, 17 June 2017 - 08:56 AM.

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#68 robrey85

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:06 AM

Willett never should have won the Masters just like Spieth never should have won at Chambers Bay, IMHO.

Edited by robrey85, 17 June 2017 - 09:06 AM.

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#69 Sean2

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:08 AM

At the end of the day the scoreboard only cares about one thing: who shot the lowest score. Willett didn't back into anything. This "if Spieth didn't...", is completely irrelevant. You could probably ask Willett if he left any shots out there during the tournament and undoubtedly he could give you a number of examples. Everyone leaves shots out on the course, it's the nature of the game. The "if only" thing is silly. Might as well say "if only I was given a $20 million legacy, I would have..."
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#70 Dave230

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:14 AM

Willett ended up winning by 3 so if Spieth pulls it a bit on 12 and then three putts for bogey, it's a playoff. Willett put it up to him by posting a great score. The greatest Masters ever is considered 1986 but if Ballesteros hits his second shot at 15 in the middle of the green, Jack probably doesn't win.


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#71 Hankshank

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:34 AM

Spieth did not exactly choke. With his swing consistency there will be some righties from time to time.  
As for Willett, for us who have followed him on the EU tour, he's good enouh. But it seems like the Masters win was a little too big too early. He'll come around.
Guess if Tommy the Scouse win, there will be similar talk. But he's as sharp as anyone.

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#72 nohny noke

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.

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#73 Thrillhouse

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:52 AM

View PostWolfWRX, on 17 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

It's not that I'm a spieth fan, and for the record I understand and respect your (and others who side with you) position on this, I just don't see it the same way.

To me there is a difference between making a charge in the middle of the heat, or finishing it off with a lead, and posting a number from several groups back, not getting into the lead while on the course (or only having to deal with it for a hole or two), and hanging out while someone else falls off. You see it in tour events all the time with a Sunday 63 from the middle of the pack. Was it a great round? Sure, but I'm still going to call it backing in, and I understand that other people may not, it's a subjective thing.

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#74 MrWolf

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

View PostWolfWRX, on 17 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

67 or not if someone else falls apart and you simply hang around without the cameras or the height of pressure on you and get it in the house that's backing into a win.

There is a difference between posting a number a few groups back of the leaders and waiting for others to lose and going out and catching (and passing) the leaders with the cameras and pressure on you.

Admittedly I don't recall the specific timing of events, but seem to remember Willett was on around the 15th when Spieth choked. Willett knew Spieth had racked up a big number and therefore what needed to do over the closing stretch to give himself the best chance of winning. He played with balls of steel over those closing holes - nailing the tee shot on 16, then executing an unbelievable up and down on 17. I'm pretty sure there were quite a few cameras, and quite a bit of pressure on him at that time. It's not like he posted a score at lunchtime and spent the afternoon at the spa having a foot massage and sauna.

Again, this is hardly backing into a win, but I guess people will believe what they want, particularly those struggling to accept that the Golden Boy capitulated in absolutely spectacular fashion. I'm not saying this is you, incidentally, but it's quite clear the pain is still very raw for many.

It's not that I'm a spieth fan, and for the record I understand and respect your (and others who side with you) position on this, I just don't see it the same way.

To me there is a difference between making a charge in the middle of the heat, or finishing it off with a lead, and posting a number from several groups back, not getting into the lead while on the course (or only having to deal with it for a hole or two), and hanging out while someone else falls off. You see it in tour events all the time with a Sunday 63 from the middle of the pack. Was it a great round? Sure, but I'm still going to call it backing in, and I understand that other people may not, it's a subjective thing.

Likewise, I see where you're coming from and certainly respect your views. Full disclose, being English I was thrilled with Willetts win so do have an inherent bias!
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#75 Man_O_War

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:37 AM

View PostRoryGenius, on 15 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

He forced Jordan to dump 2 in the drink, legend.

that was a choke for the ages...he hasn't been himself since..he's trying though.

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#76 jslane57

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:43 AM

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.
If you take out your driver and sing, "Hammer Time!", do you combine the two? LOL. I've never seen a truly poor musician make it past middle school talent shows, nor has an untalented golfer ever won a golf tournament in the professional golf tournament. Fun thread, choosing the worst major champion is like choosing the worst $250,000 car...
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#77 nohny noke

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:52 AM

View Postjslane57, on 17 June 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.
If you take out your driver and sing, "Hammer Time!", do you combine the two? LOL. I've never seen a truly poor musician make it past middle school talent shows, nor has an untalented golfer ever won a golf tournament in the professional golf tournament. Fun thread, choosing the worst major champion is like choosing the worst $250,000 car...

I will try "Hammer Time" and report back.

Making money doing music is WAY easier than making money playing golf.

17

#78 thug the bunny

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:17 PM

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.

I know, not a perfect analogy. It may be just that I'm getting old, but I am amazed at the number of big hit 'artists' that totally suck these days.

Are you a studio musician or in a band?
So there is really only here and now

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#79 thug the bunny

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:18 PM

View Postjslane57, on 17 June 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.
If you take out your driver and sing, "Hammer Time!", do you combine the two? LOL. I've never seen a truly poor musician make it past middle school talent shows, nor has an untalented golfer ever won a golf tournament in the professional golf tournament. Fun thread, choosing the worst major champion is like choosing the worst $250,000 car...

I have seen many poor musicians make plenty of money.
So there is really only here and now

19

#80 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:16 PM

View PostDave230, on 17 June 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Willett ended up winning by 3 so if Spieth pulls it a bit on 12 and then three putts for bogey, it's a playoff. Willett put it up to him by posting a great score. The greatest Masters ever is considered 1986 but if Ballesteros hits his second shot at 15 in the middle of the green, Jack probably doesn't win.

Or Norman hits the 18th green, Kite makes his putt - who knows.

Point is, Jack played his butt off, some others did, too, but came up short.

No backing into it.

Spieth hit two bad shots at a really bad time, Willett probably hit some bad shots along the line. Not like Spieth is the presumptive winner, and he proved he wasn't up to it.

To quote William Munny, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."


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#81 nohny noke

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 15 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 15 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

In music, a one hit wonder does not make the song any less awesome. Willett was freaking amazing.

Yeah, the song can be awesome, but we're talking about the performer here.  

One hit/major does not an awesome musician/golfer make.

Try making a living being a musician. Having one hit is pretty awesome. On the other hand, there are many singer/song writers who have had multiple hits who are totally not awesome.

Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.

I know, not a perfect analogy. It may be just that I'm getting old, but I am amazed at the number of big hit 'artists' that totally suck these days.

Are you a studio musician or in a band?

Thanks for asking.  I'm a composer of 'classical' music, so most of my income is from commissions.  However I perform my and other people's music enough to know the gigging side of it.

I've found that golf and music do share many similarities.  Most importantly both are enjoyable!

21

#82 bearcatnut

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:29 PM

Mike Weir.  Hasn't broken par in years.

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#83 Thrillhouse

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:32 PM

View Postbearcatnut, on 17 June 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Mike Weir.  Hasn't broken par in years.

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

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#84 MrWolf

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:11 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

View Postbearcatnut, on 17 June 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Mike Weir.  Hasn't broken par in years.

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

Edited by WolfWRX, 17 June 2017 - 06:15 PM.

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#85 Thrillhouse

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:19 PM

View PostWolfWRX, on 17 June 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 17 June 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

View Postbearcatnut, on 17 June 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Mike Weir.  Hasn't broken par in years.

Don't get this one. He has 8 PGA tour wins, 8! That's a world class resume! Sure he isn't very good anymore, but neither is David Duval, doesn't mean he wasn't great in his time.

Micheel on the other hand literally never did anything other than win the PGA. That has to make him (and all the other guys with lesser resumes) worse major champions than weir.

Todd Hamilton is one that springs to mind. I was crushed when he beat Els in The Open.

I know, I put Hamilton over micheel because Hamilton won a lot in Japan, the degree of weight people put into that will vary but IMO it's a major worldwide tour and at least he was winning somewhere.


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#86 hurricanes7

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:28 PM

rich beem is pretty awful these days
Callaway GBB Epic 10.5 Oban Gold 65s
Callaway GBB Epic 15 Oban Gold 75s
Mizuno CLK 20 Tour Blue 85s
Srixon 765/565 Modus 105s
Callaway MD3 54 Wedge Modus 125
Callaway MD3 56 Wedge Modus 115
Callaway MD3 58 forged Modus 105
Bettinardi Queen Bee
Callaway Chrome Soft X

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#87 thug the bunny

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:52 PM

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 17 June 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postnohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:



Ironic you should say that, because I am a working musician.

In reality, the music/golf one hit wonder analogy doesn't compute.  I don't think in golf a person could have multiple majors (hits) and still be perceived as sucking, but in music that could totally happen.  Achievement in golf is at least partially objective, whereas it is completely subjective in music, regardless of what the industry hitmakers say.

I know, not a perfect analogy. It may be just that I'm getting old, but I am amazed at the number of big hit 'artists' that totally suck these days.

Are you a studio musician or in a band?


Thanks for asking.  I'm a composer of 'classical' music, so most of my income is from commissions.  However I perform my and other people's music enough to know the gigging side of it.

I've found that golf and music do share many similarities.  Most importantly both are enjoyable!

Modern classical? I thought that was just about gone, with the exception of scores. My dad raised me on classical. I could whistle along with Mozart symphonies when I was 5. If you are modest, plse PM me with anything you have available online, or post them. I would love to have a listen.
So there is really only here and now

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#88 AhoyPolloi

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:58 PM

Willet is horrible.  But there are many like him.  Too much money for 1st time major winners.  They lose the drive.  Unless one is the type who cares about legacy and history (Speith, Rors etc..) then you get a Willet

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#89 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:23 PM

View PostAhoyPolloi, on 17 June 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

Willet is horrible.  But there are many like him.  Too much money for 1st time major winners.  They lose the drive.  Unless one is the type who cares about legacy and history (Speith, Rors etc..) then you get a Willet

Posts over 11 per day don't count, so you could have saved us this silliness stopping at 10.


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#90 gretch

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:04 PM

View PostDivitsInTheGreen, on 15 June 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

, if I was really on for a round he'd probably only beat me by 10-15. To keep it in perspective.


14 hcp??


Posted Image

Edited by gretch, 17 June 2017 - 10:05 PM.


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