894 replies to this topic

[nohny noke]

Onespeed24, on 17 June 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

Onespeed24, on 17 June 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

Golf Ball Wacker Guy, on 17 June 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

Anyone know what the material is? Curious if getting into the composite game. But doesn't look like it.  I've had all Ping drivers since the G15 except for i25. G has to be the shortest of them all for me. Been a Ping guy since I could swing a club, but hit the Epic and M2 on my home course and it's drastically longer than my Ping. Will wait for details before pulling any triggers though

The G400 is not a composite crown.  Funny that you say "getting into" the composite game like its a new thing.  Most major mfgrs, Ping included, have done the carbon fiber thing in years past and reverted back to ti or something else.  Now that the current flagship Cally and TM drivers have carbon crowns everyone assumes its something special and everyone should "get into" it.  Give it a couple of years and both of those mfgrs will drop carbon fiber in favor of new and innovative titanium crowns.  Its a shell game they play to keep you buying "new" stuff.  

Not sure why you're hitting the Epic or M2 "drastically" further than the G.  Most head to head comparisons have them all within a couple of yards of each other.   The more important factor is where are you hitting your second shot from with each of those clubs?

Cobra is all in on carbon fiber as well.

Why would you say that the manufacturers will be switching back to Ti for the crown?  Carbon fiber can be way lighter, which is what you want in the crown.  Old CF like was used in the Raptures was heavier and there wasn't much adavantage over titanium then.  Different story now.  

I really like PING and I root for them but they are missing the boat on crown materials in my opinion.

I wouldn't call it missing the boat, just taking a different boat.  Not saying Ping won't come out with a CF crown eventually, but right now they don't need to "keep up with the Jones's" to keep up in performance and sales.  

I'm saying the others will switch back after a couple of years because CF won't be new and sexy anymore, and they'll have to figure out a way to make their stuff appealing to keep sales going.  I foresee some new ti alloy compound that is stronger and lighter coming along to displace carbon fiber, and the shell game will continue, while the actual performance will be about the same as it was 10 years ago.   Meanwhile, R&D costs will need to be recouped, and that new technology will now cost you $600 instead of the current $500, while the others are staying at $400, with steady incremental improvements over time.  Somehow Cobra has figured out how to make a composite driver for $350, not sure what they are doing or how they are doing it.  It is curious that they are giving away free FWs or hybrids to get folks to buy their drivers, so take that for what its worth.  Ricky seems to really like his stuff though.  I play an F7 hybrid and its the shiz!  

I'm not knocking CF or any other technology, just saying not all drivers need to be the same to be effective, and overlooking one for the other is just short-sighted.  Carbon fiber is the thing right now, but we shouldn't assume anything not carbon fiber is somehow inferior.

Fair points.  Thanks for elaborating.

I realize that no two swings are alike and so each person has different optimal launch/spin characteristics- I just think that right now carbon fiber seems to be the best material for the driver crown from a purely mass-placement standpoint.  

I mean, the G crown was twice as heavy as the LTD.  12 grams more, which, according to Mr. Wishon would equate to 3-400 MOI points.  Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

But yeah, PING know what they're doing and I'm sure the G400 will sell just like all their clubs have.  And I want them to do well!  Totally dig that they're family-owned.

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[prost893]

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

There is another web site that has done detailed CG and MOI measurements of driver heads.  The 2016 chart shows that the CG of the Ping G is furthest from the face of any driver of 2016 and had the highest MOI.  There is a limit on MOI and at some point more isn't always better.  Think Nike Sumo SQ2 5900.

[tbowen19]

For you guys that have hit the fairway woods and hybrids...how did they compare to the G series? Did they change much? Worth the upgrade?

[PreppySlapCut]

prost893, on 17 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

There is another web site that has done detailed CG and MOI measurements of driver heads.  The 2016 chart shows that the CG of the Ping G is furthest from the face of any driver of 2016 and had the highest MOI.  There is a limit on MOI and at some point more isn't always better.  Think Nike Sumo SQ2 5900.

People love to hate on that old SQ2, but it did win two majors...

[Llortamaisey]

Why is it that manufacturers never tell us how much weight the manufacturing seam of the carbon fiber adds when telling us how light the CF crown is? Shouldn't that be taking into account when comparing it against titanium?

[nohny noke]

PreppySlapCut, on 18 June 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

prost893, on 17 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

There is another web site that has done detailed CG and MOI measurements of driver heads.  The 2016 chart shows that the CG of the Ping G is furthest from the face of any driver of 2016 and had the highest MOI.  There is a limit on MOI and at some point more isn't always better.  Think Nike Sumo SQ2 5900.

People love to hate on that old SQ2, but it did win two majors...

5900 was the straightest driver I've ever hit.

I'm aware of the diminishing returns on MOI, but can people really say that they wouldn't want 12 extra grams of discretionary weight for PING engineers to put where they want?  

I'm sure it's a production cost thing more than anything else to stay with Ti crowns.

[TheMoneyShot]

misplacedtexan83, on 17 June 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Seen the head in person and it looks amazing.

I love the little copper ascents and if what I was told at the shop is true then the XTorison Copper will be offered as an uncharge at a very reasonable price (cheap compare to others)...

Copper on copper will look killer, IMO!

Damn good shaft so far...

This club will look sick with that shaft!

[nohny noke]

Llortamaisey, on 18 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Why is it that manufacturers never tell us how much weight the manufacturing seam of the carbon fiber adds when telling us how light the CF crown is? Shouldn't that be taking into account when comparing it against titanium?

Good point.

[misplacedtexan83]

TheMoneyShot, on 18 June 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

misplacedtexan83, on 17 June 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Seen the head in person and it looks amazing.

I love the little copper ascents and if what I was told at the shop is true then the XTorison Copper will be offered as an uncharge at a very reasonable price (cheap compare to others)...

Copper on copper will look killer, IMO!

Damn good shaft so far...

This club will look sick with that shaft!

Completely agree...

[Wooderson]

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

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[Onespeed24]

Wooderson, on 18 June 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

Because like Llorta pointed out, the crown may weigh less, but the glue or epoxy and the junction to make the crown stick to the body of the head probably offsets that savings.  Cobra, Cally and TM aren't lying when they say the crown is lighter than ti, their just may not be telling us the whole story.   I say probably because I have no hard data to back this up, but it makes sense that in order to join two dissimilar materials there needs to be a "joining" material, which probably isn't included in the weight of the crown for marketing purposes.  Selective data points for you the consumer.

On a separate note, my G must know I've been looking at other drivers because this morning's round was one of my best driving days this year.  I told my buddies I was looking to try out the new G400 in a few weeks and they were like "Why? You're killing it today with that one!"  Like the old saying goes, I marry my irons but I only date my drivers...

Edited by Onespeed24, 18 June 2017 - 02:26 PM.

[MJisGOAT]

Onespeed24, on 18 June 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Wooderson, on 18 June 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

Because like Llorta pointed out, the crown may weigh less, but the glue or epoxy and the junction to make the crown stick to the body of the head probably offsets that savings.  Cobra, Cally and TM aren't lying when they say the crown is lighter than ti, their just may not be telling us the whole story.   I say probably because I have no hard data to back this up, but it makes sense that in order to join two dissimilar materials there needs to be a "joining" material, which probably isn't included in the weight of the crown for marketing purposes.  Selective data points for you the consumer.

On a separate note, my G must know I've been looking at other drivers because this morning's round was one of my best driving days this year.  I told my buddies I was looking to try out the new G400 in a few weeks and they were like "Why? You're killing it today with that one!"  Like the old saying goes, I marry my irons but I only date my drivers...

I've had one affair too many, wish I could find ol' faithful.

[tbowles411]

nohny noke, on 18 June 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

PreppySlapCut, on 18 June 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

prost893, on 17 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

There is another web site that has done detailed CG and MOI measurements of driver heads.  The 2016 chart shows that the CG of the Ping G is furthest from the face of any driver of 2016 and had the highest MOI.  There is a limit on MOI and at some point more isn't always better.  Think Nike Sumo SQ2 5900.

People love to hate on that old SQ2, but it did win two majors...

5900 was the straightest driver I've ever hit.

I'm aware of the diminishing returns on MOI, but can people really say that they wouldn't want 12 extra grams of discretionary weight for PING engineers to put where they want?  

I'm sure it's a production cost thing more than anything else to stay with Ti crowns.

I vote production costs.  My guess is they're not willing to jack up the price too high to go exotic if they can produce the same or better performance than anything else out there.  I remember the 5900 well.  It was arrow straight.  It just sounded terrible.

[nohny noke]

Wooderson, on 18 June 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

I'm not sure why the need to be snarky.  

FWIW, I do think PING probably has better engineers than Cobra.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'matching' a cg location or why that would be desirable.  Each swing is different and will require unique launch/spin characteristics for optimization.  This isn't about the G vs LTD, as neither is inferior.  And I've never said that PING's drivers were inferior, and I've tried to not imply it.

All I'm asking is why PING is still using Ti.  There have been some great responses and I thank the dudes for that.

[nohny noke]

Onespeed24, on 18 June 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Wooderson, on 18 June 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

Because like Llorta pointed out, the crown may weigh less, but the glue or epoxy and the junction to make the crown stick to the body of the head probably offsets that savings.  Cobra, Cally and TM aren't lying when they say the crown is lighter than ti, their just may not be telling us the whole story.   I say probably because I have no hard data to back this up, but it makes sense that in order to join two dissimilar materials there needs to be a "joining" material, which probably isn't included in the weight of the crown for marketing purposes.  Selective data points for you the consumer.

On a separate note, my G must know I've been looking at other drivers because this morning's round was one of my best driving days this year.  I told my buddies I was looking to try out the new G400 in a few weeks and they were like "Why? You're killing it today with that one!"  Like the old saying goes, I marry my irons but I only date my drivers...

You two may very well be right.  But I have to believe it's not a total wash between CF crowns including epoxy/structures and an all Ti crown, mostly because the LTD cg location is a lot lower than the G while still decently close in MOI.  I think you'd need some discretionary weight to move around to do that.

Anywho, I'm done with the questions.  

I love the look of the G400 and I hope it does well in the marketplace.  Seems like PING has done something really cool, I think, by shrinking the size of the head while maintaining MOI.  Bravo!

[Tzoid]

crazyray, on 12 June 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Small upcharge on the shafts, but will not dictate or raise the regular retail price

Will be at sellers discretion

Are you saying Ping will join the rest of the industry and offer a variety of shafts for fittings?  I have been using their drivers exclusively for the past 4-5 years and currently play a G with a Aldila Rogue Silver and I'm actually kinda getting tired of paying for a shaft whenever I buy a new Ping driver.

[BDoubleG]

Tzoid, on 18 June 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

crazyray, on 12 June 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Small upcharge on the shafts, but will not dictate or raise the regular retail price

Will be at sellers discretion

Are you saying Ping will join the rest of the industry and offer a variety of shafts for fittings?  I have been using their drivers exclusively for the past 4-5 years and currently play a G with a Aldila Rogue Silver and I'm actually kinda getting tired of paying for a shaft whenever I buy a new Ping driver.

+1. I actually really liked the G driver, but I stayed away from it since I don't have the capital of some of the guys here, and I don't want to pay extra just to have a selection of shaft options.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

PreppySlapCut, on 18 June 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

prost893, on 17 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

nohny noke, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Think how awesome the G would have been with that much higher MOI!

There is another web site that has done detailed CG and MOI measurements of driver heads.  The 2016 chart shows that the CG of the Ping G is furthest from the face of any driver of 2016 and had the highest MOI.  There is a limit on MOI and at some point more isn't always better.  Think Nike Sumo SQ2 5900.

People love to hate on that old SQ2, but it did win two majors...

PsC,   I can 100% picture Glover. was Cink the other winning that same summer in '09?

Edited by Kenny Lee Puckett, 18 June 2017 - 10:15 PM.

[luckycharms1810]

nohny noke, on 18 June 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

Onespeed24, on 18 June 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Wooderson, on 18 June 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the LTD has a lighter crown than the Ping G, but yet can't match it for cg location and MOI?  Man what is wrong with Cobra engineers?

Because like Llorta pointed out, the crown may weigh less, but the glue or epoxy and the junction to make the crown stick to the body of the head probably offsets that savings.  Cobra, Cally and TM aren't lying when they say the crown is lighter than ti, their just may not be telling us the whole story.   I say probably because I have no hard data to back this up, but it makes sense that in order to join two dissimilar materials there needs to be a "joining" material, which probably isn't included in the weight of the crown for marketing purposes.  Selective data points for you the consumer.

On a separate note, my G must know I've been looking at other drivers because this morning's round was one of my best driving days this year.  I told my buddies I was looking to try out the new G400 in a few weeks and they were like "Why? You're killing it today with that one!"  Like the old saying goes, I marry my irons but I only date my drivers...

You two may very well be right.  But I have to believe it's not a total wash between CF crowns including epoxy/structures and an all Ti crown, mostly because the LTD cg location is a lot lower than the G while still decently close in MOI.  I think you'd need some discretionary weight to move around to do that.

Anywho, I'm done with the questions.  

I love the look of the G400 and I hope it does well in the marketplace.  Seems like PING has done something really cool, I think, by shrinking the size of the head while maintaining MOI.  Bravo!

Hi. I am just curious. Would a carbon fiber sole be more beneficial to reducing spin? Keep the crown material the same and keep the CG in the same place. I mean when you swap out the soles on the Wilson staff triton the spin automatically reduces. Just a thought

Edited by luckycharms1810, 19 June 2017 - 04:42 AM.

[youngunz5840]

I'll take a crossover 3 iron. The current ones are a beast

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[Geaux Gators]

There goes my plans of no new toys....

[Stetson]

I had made up my mind that when this driver was released I was going to demo it and the Z765, winner goes in my bag. My King LTD Pro didn't like that because it is a whole new club since I told it that he would be going to an intern next month.  Much improved, doing as told. Btw this can apply to your children also, threats always are permanent solutions.

[kcowgolf]

Can't wait to try the G400 LS, any news on the release date?

[s515_15]

Just talked to our rep yesterday. Order arrives at the end of July here in Canada. The driver will be the last released until spring 2019. Said there currently is no plans to offer a bubba pink version though I had one presold to a member if they ever do

[tbowen19]

Anyone have any additional info about the fairway woods and hybrids? Shaft options? Trying to decide if I should wait or go with the G series?

Edited by tbowen19, 20 June 2017 - 10:52 AM.

[tbowles411]

tbowen19, on 20 June 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Anyone have any additional info about the fairway woods and hybrids? Shaft options? Trying to decide if I should wait or go with the G series?

Wait.  PING is almost always on-time with releases.  And you can wait a month....  

[Geaux Gators]

I would love one in royal blue and bright orange

[gentles]

s515_15, on 20 June 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

Just talked to our rep yesterday. Order arrives at the end of July here in Canada. The driver will be the last released until spring 2019. Said there currently is no plans to offer a bubba pink version though I had one presold to a member if they ever do

Is that when they are on the shelf or when you can go try them out? I'm itching to try a crossover out!

[gr00vetech]

tbowen19, on 20 June 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Anyone have any additional info about the fairway woods and hybrids? Shaft options? Trying to decide if I should wait or go with the G series?

PING is finally going to change the tip size so many more shaft options will be available for the FW and HYB. I would wait fir sure. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but they made some significant gains in forgiveness and performance in the new G400.

[tbowen19]

Awesome, thanks for the info didn't know that!!

gr00vetech, on 21 June 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

tbowen19, on 20 June 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Anyone have any additional info about the fairway woods and hybrids? Shaft options? Trying to decide if I should wait or go with the G series?

PING is finally going to change the tip size so many more shaft options will be available for the FW and HYB. I would wait fir sure. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but they made some significant gains in forgiveness and performance in the new G400.

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