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US Open: Erin Hills


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#91 Skydiver22

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Edited by Skydiver22, 13 June 2017 - 10:59 AM.

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#92 sekrah

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:08 AM

View PostIgnatius Reilly, on 13 June 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

View Postsekrah, on 13 June 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  

Yes.  You don't waste time looking for a ball and it's usually only one stroke penalty.  A lost ball is at least two strokes and frequently is a long waste of time.

"Will he or won't he find his ball, the US Open hinges on this..." Sounds like drama to me.. BRING IT ON!!!!  :fan_1:

If it happens 50+ times, I think the drama will wear off.

Course looks gorgeous, hope it's a success.

People predicting this to happen to every shot in the rough are being a bit over the top.  There are people everywhere, they will find the balls.

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#93 sekrah

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

View Postgvogel, on 13 June 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Postsekrah, on 13 June 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 June 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

I hate watching the US Open.  This is the only time during the year people play a course that is set up in this manner.   USGA ruins the Men's and Women's Opens in my opinion.

Greens should be more reasonable, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with setting up punishment for missing the fairway.

I wish all the courses were set up like this for professional events.  It's the only way to take the ridiculous length out of the game.

A better way to take the ridiculous length out of the game would be to change the equipment specs.  Ball and driver face.

Sorry, but 0% that is ever going to happen unless you want to kill golf. That genie is out of the bottle.  Make the courses tougher by putting a premium on accuracy is the only thing the USGA can do.

Edited by sekrah, 13 June 2017 - 11:20 AM.


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#94 2putttom

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.
we will revisit his post on Saturday.
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#95 JaNelson38

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:13 AM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Um...Erin Hills is not going to be a "birdie fest", no matter what they do with the fescue.  

With the rolling, uneven lies in the fairways and the undulation in most of these greens, there's plenty of challenge for these players.  Some of these greens are as diabolical as Augusta National with regards to things like false fronts, subtle breaks, and sucker pins.

Edited by JaNelson38, 13 June 2017 - 11:15 AM.


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#96 canonlbp430

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:44 AM

IMG_1527.JPG

IMG_1529.JPG


If you think this is ugly we will just have to agree to disagree. Pinehurst No. 2 is way better than it was before the redesign. I haven't heard a single person that has played the course before and after say any different.

Looking forward to watching the coverage this week. It's nice to see the pros out of their comfort zone.

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#97 2putttom

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:47 AM

View PostJaNelson38, on 13 June 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Um...Erin Hills is not going to be a "birdie fest", no matter what they do with the fescue.  

With the rolling, uneven lies in the fairways and the undulation in most of these greens, there's plenty of challenge for these players.  Some of these greens are as diabolical as Augusta National with regards to things like false fronts, subtle breaks, and sucker pins.
ya can bet that the USGA peeps have done somthin' to punish wayward shots in and or around the greens.

Edited by 2putttom, 13 June 2017 - 11:48 AM.

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#98 imakaveli

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:51 AM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Nah, USGA will just put the holes behind bushes to keep their cool slogan

Edited by imakaveli, 13 June 2017 - 11:52 AM.


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#99 BeerPerHole

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:52 AM

I was watching Golf Channel's coverage of this site last night and I'm pretty excited to watch this one. I really like how this course looks. It's beautiful. It would eat me alive, though. I played my best round ever a couple months ago at a local course that has many similar greens - greens where you have to hit a certain 25-30% of the surface to stay on. In a sick way, I really loved it.
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#100 imakaveli

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:56 AM

Golfdom‏ @Golfdom  1h1 hour ago

The crew is mowing down areas of fescue roughs that were knocked down by heavy rains. "It would be unplayable," @USGA's Darin Brevard said

Posted Image

Edited by imakaveli, 13 June 2017 - 11:56 AM.


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#101 Skydiver22

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:58 AM

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Nah, USGA will just put the holes behind bushes to keep their cool slogan

Haha... there is only 6-7 trees on the entire course.   The only defense the course has is , wind, native grasses, and severe edging on greens.  USGA is starting to whittle away at one of them.
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#102 15th Club

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:04 PM

For me, watching Kevin Na on video, it wasn't so much a question of scoring; it was a simple matter of finding golf balls and maintaining a pace of play.

With fescue, there are some tricky issues as soon as you start messing with mother nature.  First, when guys like Mike Devries and Tom Doak plant fescue on new courses, they seed at something like 1/3 of the recommended density, so that it is thin and whispy.  Kevin Na was rightly pointing out stuff that was not whispy; it was dangerous jungle.  That can happen with fescue when there is overspray from the water and fertilizers that get used on fairways and greens.  In those areas, it needs to be more closely-mown.  I understand that the USGA is doing that now, which is a responsible response to what Na rightly pointed out.

The other big thing, that I already alluded to, is that the number of lost balls in that stuff, and what the time taken up looking for lost balls would do to the pace of play, can be ruinous to a U.S. Open.  It has to be addressed, regardless of what it means for scoring (which is probably nothing).

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#103 BearQ

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:06 PM

Sad to see Moore, Lahiri, Sullivan, Soren, thunderbear olesson and colsaerts not make the field
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#104 bb822

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:13 PM

Rory just said it best when told they were cutting back the rough in the media room: "I just don't get it... We have 60 yards. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well go home."
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#105 Skydiver22

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:46 PM

View Postbb822, on 13 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Rory just said it best when told they were cutting back the rough in the media room: "I just don't get it... We have 60 yards. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well go home."

Exactly...  The fairways are wide enough to land Phil's jet on...

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#106 new2g0lf

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:56 PM

View Postbb822, on 13 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Rory just said it best when told they were cutting back the rough in the media room: "I just don't get it... We have 60 yards. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well go home."

They are cutting back the rough to ensure guys go for maximum distance off the tee so Davis can support for his agenda of rolling back technology.  I see him doing an interview circuit where he claims the pro's out powered  the 7700 yard course and how it's not feasible to convert all courses to 8000+ yards in order to challenge the top pro's.
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#107 Stinger26

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:57 PM

Westwood's video is hilarious.

I'm playing there in July - looks like I'll need a few extra balls.
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#108 03SMURF

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 01:06 PM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

View Postbb822, on 13 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Rory just said it best when told they were cutting back the rough in the media room: "I just don't get it... We have 60 yards. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well go home."

Exactly...  The fairways are wide enough to land Phil's jet on...

And they are almost wide enough for Phil to land a drive on!
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#109 shortstop20

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 01:30 PM

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  Solution... don't hit it in the lake.  The man made lakes at the Stadium course are much more in play than the high fescue at Erin Hills.  You've got 50 to 60 yard wide fairways to hit into.  If you hit it into the tall fescue, you deserve the penalty that comes with it.  And if you're hitting the ball that far offline... you don't deserve to be the US Open Champion.  They're trying to identify the best golfer in the world and it's not the guy who's hitting it 30-40 yards offline.

Great post. The fescue is essentially a hazard, don't hit it there!


View Postgvogel, on 13 June 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

View Postgrm24, on 12 June 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Here is a more nuanced take on the fescue @ Erin Hill w/o some of the hysteria from Kevin Na.

http://www.golfdiges...yand-not-really

But here's the kicker: all the fescue doesn't have this composition. It's mostly just the first six-to-eight yards. Once you travel past that barrier, it's a relative walk in the park. Not only can you find your ball, you can advance it with ease. The picture below is the same spot where I briefly lost my bottle, only this time the bottle is placed 10 yards further from the rough. (And yes, that trampled down area in front is where I was searching for the previously-lost item. If any pros receive a generous lie on No. 2 this week, you're welcome.) As you can see in the middle of the picture, it's in plain sight.
.
.
On eight separate occasions Monday morning I witnessed players in this second cut of fescue; guys found the putting surface five times from over 170 yards, with only one shot labeled as poor. This held true around the greens as well. I camped out on the par-3 sixth for an hour or so, and at least one guy in each pairing found the fescue off the tee. Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue.

And the bottom line is this "Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue."  

So it rewards a really bad shot.  There is no reason for rough this deep.   looking for balls is not fun nor entertaining.

Here is where I think that it is going to be very rough for the players.  A shot that rolls off the green is going to travel down a thinly mowed slope, and then all of a sudden it is going to end up in deep cabbage.  Getting out of there will require a blast with a sand wedge, and the outcome will still be in doubt.  I expect many players to go from one side of a green to another, back and forth.  That kind of rough near a green prohibits a player with a really good pitching game from using his talent.

But are there actually holes where that might happen? Balls rolling off the green and into fescue would certainly be extremely penal and I don't expect that the course is setup like that.

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#110 games

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 01:31 PM

I don't think this was the USGA giving into player complaints.

We had heavy thunderstorms bring driving rain last night.  My understanding is the force of the rain flattened some of the longer rough, essentially laying it over onto itself.  The USGA probably felt this created an unplayable situation and had the flattened areas cut.

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#111 BeerPerHole

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 01:47 PM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 13 June 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postbb822, on 13 June 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Rory just said it best when told they were cutting back the rough in the media room: "I just don't get it... We have 60 yards. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well go home."

They are cutting back the rough to ensure guys go for maximum distance off the tee so Davis can support for his agenda of rolling back technology.  I see him doing an interview circuit where he claims the pro's out powered  the 7700 yard course and how it's not feasible to convert all courses to 8000+ yards in order to challenge the top pro's.

This discussion of rolling back technology based on what the pros are doing drives me nuts. We mortals would hit DJ's driver and ball half his distance. It's like pointing at the Indy 500 and saying, "We need lower speed limits for your commute to work."
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#112 gmangolf

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 01:52 PM

View Postgames, on 13 June 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

I don't think this was the USGA giving into player complaints.

We had heavy thunderstorms bring driving rain last night.  My understanding is the force of the rain flattened some of the longer rough, essentially laying it over onto itself.  The USGA probably felt this created an unplayable situation and had the flattened areas cut.

This was indeed what was said by grounds crew.  

Still, shocked by the number of whiners and impressed with Rory.  Yeah the fescue is brutal in some places... but the fairways are 50 yards wide sometimes!  The best players in the world should be able to swing away without fear at a landing area that wide.  If you hit a ball THAT far offline in the US Open, you should be heavily penalized.

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#113 TinCupping

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:29 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

For me, watching Kevin Na on video, it wasn't so much a question of scoring; it was a simple matter of finding golf balls and maintaining a pace of play.

With fescue, there are some tricky issues as soon as you start messing with mother nature.  First, when guys like Mike Devries and Tom Doak plant fescue on new courses, they seed at something like 1/3 of the recommended density, so that it is thin and whispy.  Kevin Na was rightly pointing out stuff that was not whispy; it was dangerous jungle.  That can happen with fescue when there is overspray from the water and fertilizers that get used on fairways and greens.  In those areas, it needs to be more closely-mown.  I understand that the USGA is doing that now, which is a responsible response to what Na rightly pointed out.

The other big thing, that I already alluded to, is that the number of lost balls in that stuff, and what the time taken up looking for lost balls would do to the pace of play, can be ruinous to a U.S. Open.  It has to be addressed, regardless of what it means for scoring (which is probably nothing).

https://www.youtube....h?v=hNG-63ivFqs
Kevin Na has other issues that effect his pace of play. Looked to me like a guy who was trying to make a point no matter what. So he decided to just go into the rough and start chopping around and whining. I don't take much of what this guy says seriously anyway after witnessing his antics over the years.
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#114 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:01 PM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Nah, USGA will just put the holes behind bushes to keep their cool slogan

Haha... there is only 6-7 trees on the entire course.   The only defense the course has is , wind, native grasses, and severe edging on greens.  USGA is starting to whittle away at one of them.

Good for them.  Looking for balls isn't fun or entertaining.

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#115 games

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:31 PM

View Postgmangolf, on 13 June 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

View Postgames, on 13 June 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

I don't think this was the USGA giving into player complaints.

We had heavy thunderstorms bring driving rain last night.  My understanding is the force of the rain flattened some of the longer rough, essentially laying it over onto itself.  The USGA probably felt this created an unplayable situation and had the flattened areas cut.

This was indeed what was said by grounds crew.  

Still, shocked by the number of whiners and impressed with Rory.  Yeah the fescue is brutal in some places... but the fairways are 50 yards wide sometimes!  The best players in the world should be able to swing away without fear at a landing area that wide.  If you hit a ball THAT far offline in the US Open, you should be heavily penalized.

At risk of defending the USGA, I do wonder if they have some type of tournament policy regarding maintenance of grounds affected by weather or other outside agencies.  Example:  A tree bordering a fairway near an expected landing area off the tee falls down in the rough. I don't think anyone would argue that you haul the tree away.  Maybe the same goes for the weeds - err - "fescue" flattened by storm?

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#116 SadTrombone

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:34 PM

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

View PostSkydiver22, on 13 June 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Psssh... The whiners have won.... Peter Uihlein has just posted a pic of grounds workers cutting down the rough.  Most of the fairways were 60 yards wide at least, I guess that was not easy enough for the "pros" Now the native grasses are getting hacked down.   Yay a birdie fest US Open... might as well call it Phoenix Open Midwest style.

Nah, USGA will just put the holes behind bushes to keep their cool slogan

Haha... there is only 6-7 trees on the entire course.   The only defense the course has is , wind, native grasses, and severe edging on greens.  USGA is starting to whittle away at one of them.

In spite of the fact that Mike Davis seems to think that faster greens are bad for the game, he'll just order the mowers set lower until they're scraping up dirt so they roll around a 20.  Then he can tell us what a great event it has been.

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#117 Dave230

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:38 PM

It's supposed to be a 'links' style course, at Royal County Down and places like where he grew up, there's 20 yard landing areas for your drives. Or you can end up in a gorse bush. Gorse bush = unplayable = penalty stroke. You go 50 yards off line here and you end up in this rough, I don't really see the problem.

I think if it wasn't the USGA and their reputation then I don't think people would have made that big of a deal of it.

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#118 SadTrombone

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:41 PM

View PostDave230, on 13 June 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

It's supposed to be a 'links' style course, at Royal County Down and places like where he grew up, there's 20 yard landing areas for your drives. Or you can end up in a gorse bush. Gorse bush = unplayable = penalty stroke. You go 50 yards off line here and you end up in this rough, I don't really see the problem.

I think if it wasn't the USGA and their reputation then I don't think people would have made that big of a deal of it.

That's probably true, but it's a reputation well earned.  I mean the only thing missing from Shinnecock last time was the clown's mouth.  They've made a joke out of our national championship and turned some of the country's best courses into goofy golf...and let's not even bring up Chamber's Bay, the rules debacle last year, the general state of the game regarding rules and pace of play...  It's an organization that has completely lost its focus.  It's like they look at the 9,000 things impacting the game and say something along the lines of, "these 8,990 things don't matter and these 10 are huge important factors...so let's ignore those 10 things and focus on the rest."

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#119 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:42 PM

I love how Rory just piles into the debate. Wonder how accepting he'll be when he's in it given he's prone to a wild drive or three per round.

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#120 umassgolfer

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

SadTrombone: I've been having this argument with my buddies. It's like 51 weeks out of the year, USGA's agenda is: here's how to speed up play - tee it forward - make golf more accessible - golf is fun for everyone.

And then comes the US Open and that all goes out the window, with course setups that actively go against the narrative for the rest of the year.

My friends' argument: It's a major, it can be hard. Which would be fine if it weren't so directly contradictory to everything else USGA try to push.


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