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US Open: Erin Hills


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#61 krtgolfing

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 05:52 AM

View PostJonnyKrasnodar, on 13 June 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

Anyone see the video Lee Westwood posted of his caddy Billy Foster lying down in the rough. Literally could not be seen until he got inches away. Quite funny. Good luck finding your ball!

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

Losing the US Open because of a lost ball in the rough on Sunday would be another embarrassing moment for the joke USGA has become, spotters will be key

Do not think lost balls will be an issue with TV cameras and spotters everywhere.

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#62 babyfade

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:00 AM

Sergio will win!

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#63 lawsonman

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:05 AM

View Postkrtgolfing, on 13 June 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

View PostJonnyKrasnodar, on 13 June 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

Anyone see the video Lee Westwood posted of his caddy Billy Foster lying down in the rough. Literally could not be seen until he got inches away. Quite funny. Good luck finding your ball!

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

Losing the US Open because of a lost ball in the rough on Sunday would be another embarrassing moment for the joke USGA has become, spotters will be key

Do not think lost balls will be an issue with TV cameras and spotters everywhere.

Regardless of the camera's and spotters you can't see your ball unless you stand on it. This could be a train wreck if it gets windy. There is gonna be some long walks back to the tee.
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#64 glk

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:28 AM

View PostJonnyKrasnodar, on 13 June 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

Anyone see the video Lee Westwood posted of his caddy Billy Foster lying down in the rough. Literally could not be seen until he got inches away. Quite funny. Good luck finding your ball!

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#65 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:49 AM

View Postjubilee_links, on 12 June 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

I have never understood Pros complainig about the rough..... if its too penal dont hit it there. Thye all have amazing length these days so back off and play for accuracy. It tests the whole game. Keeping the ball in play should be rewarded as much as distance off the tee.

Dont agree with unplayable fast hard greens though

I have no problem with penal rough.  I do have a problem with lost balls.  They have no place in golf.  So if we see a lot of pros looking for balls and losing balls, that's not good.

View Postcgm808, on 12 June 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

View Postelwhippy, on 12 June 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

I hope the USGA get the set up right. They ruined a masterpiece when they went to Pinehurst. Chambers Bay should never have been used and last year's rules fiasco means they are struggling for credibility.

How did they "ruin" the masterpiece with Pinehurst?

1.  It's ugly
2.  Those greens were designed for a 7 slope, not 13.


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#66 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:52 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 June 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

Pinehurst 2 is horrible.  There is nothing attractive to the course with the redesign.  Core/Crenshaw redesigned a course and made it very unattractive.

This is true.  And they didn't restore the course to it's original design.

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#67 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:53 AM

View Posthdr_ric, on 12 June 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Lets all just hope and pray that they never go back to chambers bay.  At least until the people in charge can learn to grow non-crappy greens.

But they will.  Criticism doesn't appear to matter to the USGA.

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#68 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:00 AM

View Postgrm24, on 12 June 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Here is a more nuanced take on the fescue @ Erin Hill w/o some of the hysteria from Kevin Na.

http://www.golfdiges...yand-not-really

But here's the kicker: all the fescue doesn't have this composition. It's mostly just the first six-to-eight yards. Once you travel past that barrier, it's a relative walk in the park. Not only can you find your ball, you can advance it with ease. The picture below is the same spot where I briefly lost my bottle, only this time the bottle is placed 10 yards further from the rough. (And yes, that trampled down area in front is where I was searching for the previously-lost item. If any pros receive a generous lie on No. 2 this week, you're welcome.) As you can see in the middle of the picture, it's in plain sight.
.
.
On eight separate occasions Monday morning I witnessed players in this second cut of fescue; guys found the putting surface five times from over 170 yards, with only one shot labeled as poor. This held true around the greens as well. I camped out on the par-3 sixth for an hour or so, and at least one guy in each pairing found the fescue off the tee. Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue.

And the bottom line is this "Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue."  

So it rewards a really bad shot.  There is no reason for rough this deep.   looking for balls is not fun nor entertaining.

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#69 sekrah

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:07 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 June 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

I hate watching the US Open.  This is the only time during the year people play a course that is set up in this manner.   USGA ruins the Men's and Women's Opens in my opinion.

Greens should be more reasonable, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with setting up punishment for missing the fairway.

I wish all the courses were set up like this for professional events.  It's the only way to take the ridiculous length out of the game.

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#70 balladm

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:16 AM

I love the rediculous rough.  This is the one tournament a year I get to watch the pros playing like amateurs... Well kinda. I want to see 4 putts and cement greens.

Edited by balladm, 13 June 2017 - 07:17 AM.


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#71 imakaveli

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:23 AM

View Postkrtgolfing, on 13 June 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

View PostJonnyKrasnodar, on 13 June 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

Anyone see the video Lee Westwood posted of his caddy Billy Foster lying down in the rough. Literally could not be seen until he got inches away. Quite funny. Good luck finding your ball!

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

Losing the US Open because of a lost ball in the rough on Sunday would be another embarrassing moment for the joke USGA has become, spotters will be key

Do not think lost balls will be an issue with TV cameras and spotters everywhere.

Yeah, tell that to Tiger at Royal St. George's

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#72 teejaywhy

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:42 AM

View Posthdr_ric, on 12 June 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Lets all just hope and pray that they never go back to chambers bay.  At least until the people in charge can learn to grow non-crappy greens.

View Posthdr_ric, on 12 June 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

Issue with chambers bay was 1) the greens sucked beyond belief.  Worse than muni quality.

How do you feel about Pebble Beach as a US Open venue?

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#73 DavePelz4

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:44 AM

From the comments there are going to be a lot of people criticizing the Open Champion for all of that fescue and gorse at Royal Birkdale.

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#74 teejaywhy

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

View Postcgm808, on 12 June 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

View Postelwhippy, on 12 June 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

I hope the USGA get the set up right. They ruined a masterpiece when they went to Pinehurst. Chambers Bay should never have been used and last year's rules fiasco means they are struggling for credibility.

How did they "ruin" the masterpiece with Pinehurst?

1.  It's ugly
2.  Those greens were designed for a 7 slope, not 13.

FYI - C&C did not touch the greens.

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#75 jbachman

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:01 AM

I have no idea how anyone could see Pinehurst #2 as ugly.  It's a perfect representation of the NC sandhills.  It's not supposed to be Augusta, it's a region loaded with sand, clay and pine barrens.


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#76 widow-maker

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  Solution... don't hit it in the lake.  The man made lakes at the Stadium course are much more in play than the high fescue at Erin Hills.  You've got 50 to 60 yard wide fairways to hit into.  If you hit it into the tall fescue, you deserve the penalty that comes with it.  And if you're hitting the ball that far offline... you don't deserve to be the US Open Champion.  They're trying to identify the best golfer in the world and it's not the guy who's hitting it 30-40 yards offline.

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#77 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

View Postteejaywhy, on 13 June 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

View Postcgm808, on 12 June 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

View Postelwhippy, on 12 June 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

I hope the USGA get the set up right. They ruined a masterpiece when they went to Pinehurst. Chambers Bay should never have been used and last year's rules fiasco means they are struggling for credibility.

How did they "ruin" the masterpiece with Pinehurst?

1.  It's ugly
2.  Those greens were designed for a 7 slope, not 13.

FYI - C&C did not touch the greens.

I know that.   If they wanted to restore the course, they should have.

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#78 Roadking2003

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:13 AM

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  

Yes.  You don't waste time looking for a ball and it's usually only one stroke penalty.  A lost ball is at least two strokes and frequently is a long waste of time.

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#79 sekrah

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:20 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  

Yes.  You don't waste time looking for a ball and it's usually only one stroke penalty.  A lost ball is at least two strokes and frequently is a long waste of time.

"Will he or won't he find his ball, the US Open hinges on this..." Sounds like drama to me.. BRING IT ON!!!!  :fan_1:

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#80 nocarts83

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:30 AM

View PostDavePelz4, on 12 June 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

View Postnocarts83, on 12 June 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Quote


Why does a course have to be visually attractive to be a good US Open venue?  I've played there, post-renovation, and it's fantastic...

I can't agree more.  Even worse, the courses that average people play on a daily basis try to be like the courses we see on TV.

I can't stand it when courses try to be some unholy combination of Augusta green, full of hazards like Sawgrass, and rough like Winged Foot.  Those courses are fantastic because they are well-designed tests of golf, not because they are pretty.  Unfortunately, the pretty part is what every-day courses try to emulate.

The story of Erin Hills is an amazing one.  It's original architects, Time and Mother Nature gave an amazing landscape on which to build without making changes to the fundamental layout.

The story is pretty crazy.  Is it possible that all the chaos means that it could have been even better than it is?  Yes.  Could it still be amazing?  Yes.  I haven't played it nor watched anybody play it, so I'm excited to see it this week.  Hopefully it plays as well as it looks.


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#81 Ignatius Reilly

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:45 AM

View Postsekrah, on 13 June 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 June 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Is tall rough any worse than Pete Dye putting 25 man made lakes on a golf course?  If you hit it in the lake, how penal is that?  

Yes.  You don't waste time looking for a ball and it's usually only one stroke penalty.  A lost ball is at least two strokes and frequently is a long waste of time.

"Will he or won't he find his ball, the US Open hinges on this..." Sounds like drama to me.. BRING IT ON!!!!  :fan_1:

If it happens 50+ times, I think the drama will wear off.

Course looks gorgeous, hope it's a success.

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#82 cgm808

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:56 AM

View PostDavePelz4, on 12 June 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

View Postnocarts83, on 12 June 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Quote


Why does a course have to be visually attractive to be a good US Open venue?  I've played there, post-renovation, and it's fantastic...

I can't agree more.  Even worse, the courses that average people play on a daily basis try to be like the courses we see on TV.

I can't stand it when courses try to be some unholy combination of Augusta green, full of hazards like Sawgrass, and rough like Winged Foot.  Those courses are fantastic because they are well-designed tests of golf, not because they are pretty.  Unfortunately, the pretty part is what every-day courses try to emulate.

The story of Erin Hills is an amazing one.  It's original architects, Time and Mother Nature gave an amazing landscape on which to build without making changes to the fundamental layout.

Agreed!  Watched an interview with the architect this morning on Golf Channel and it made me late for work! haha
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#83 DavePelz4

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:18 AM

View Postimakaveli, on 13 June 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

View Postbaudi, on 13 June 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

Prior to Merion many 'experts' wondered if the course would play long enough. With rotating leaders sunday afternoon, I still think this was the most spectacular US Open in years.
This time I do hope the wind will pick up and hope to see some spoiled pro's stumble in the rough or bunkers. On the reverse side it will also show a small set of players absolutely ready to show their skills and run for victory. The USOpen must be the toughest tournament of all. Call it satisfying compensation for the real hacks who pay their dues but enjoy the game and experience these difficulties every week.

In the meanwhile at Erin Hills

Posted Image

We played EH last summer in what they referred to as the US Open set up.  One of the guys in our group NUKED a drive from the elevated tee to a very firm fairway.  With carry and roll he was at 370+.  He had 260 going in, hit a 3W and was OVER the green.  Don't let the yardage on the signs be the only barometer of the distance as this course can play fast!

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#84 BearQ

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:23 AM

Gonna say MR Louis Oost is gonna have a great showing here
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#85 TinCupping

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:27 AM

I have a great idea.............

Don't hit it in the rough.

The players complaining have already lost. Don't like it, withdraw early and let a player that isn't scared of the challenge compete.

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#86 VNutz

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:32 AM

If it keeps storming like it has overnight, that changes the complexion of the course and week entirely. Soft US Open course?? Bring on Rory, if he's healthy.

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#87 Jpapa

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:37 AM

View PostVNutz, on 13 June 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

If it keeps storming like it has overnight, that changes the complexion of the course and week entirely. Soft US Open course?? Bring on Rory, if he's healthy.
And if it keeps raining hard enough Phil might make his tee time.

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#88 gvogel

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:52 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 13 June 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

View Postgrm24, on 12 June 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Here is a more nuanced take on the fescue @ Erin Hill w/o some of the hysteria from Kevin Na.

http://www.golfdiges...yand-not-really

But here's the kicker: all the fescue doesn't have this composition. It's mostly just the first six-to-eight yards. Once you travel past that barrier, it's a relative walk in the park. Not only can you find your ball, you can advance it with ease. The picture below is the same spot where I briefly lost my bottle, only this time the bottle is placed 10 yards further from the rough. (And yes, that trampled down area in front is where I was searching for the previously-lost item. If any pros receive a generous lie on No. 2 this week, you're welcome.) As you can see in the middle of the picture, it's in plain sight.
.
.
On eight separate occasions Monday morning I witnessed players in this second cut of fescue; guys found the putting surface five times from over 170 yards, with only one shot labeled as poor. This held true around the greens as well. I camped out on the par-3 sixth for an hour or so, and at least one guy in each pairing found the fescue off the tee. Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue.

And the bottom line is this "Those that were barely in the tall grass struggled, while those that were extremely errant departed without issue."  

So it rewards a really bad shot.  There is no reason for rough this deep.   looking for balls is not fun nor entertaining.

Here is where I think that it is going to be very rough for the players.  A shot that rolls off the green is going to travel down a thinly mowed slope, and then all of a sudden it is going to end up in deep cabbage.  Getting out of there will require a blast with a sand wedge, and the outcome will still be in doubt.  I expect many players to go from one side of a green to another, back and forth.  That kind of rough near a green prohibits a player with a really good pitching game from using his talent.
On Sundays, I used to play hickory

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#89 gvogel

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:56 AM

View Postsekrah, on 13 June 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 June 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

I hate watching the US Open.  This is the only time during the year people play a course that is set up in this manner.   USGA ruins the Men's and Women's Opens in my opinion.

Greens should be more reasonable, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with setting up punishment for missing the fairway.

I wish all the courses were set up like this for professional events.  It's the only way to take the ridiculous length out of the game.

A better way to take the ridiculous length out of the game would be to change the equipment specs.  Ball and driver face.
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#90 NaBUru38

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

Notable players in the field:
  • Americans: Dustin Johnson, Jordan Spieth, Rickie Fowler, Justin Thomas, Matt Kuchar, Patrick Reed, Kevin Kisner, Brooks Koepka, Phil Mickelson, Daniel Berger, Kevin Chappell, Jason Dufner, Jimmy Walker, Bubba Watson, Brandt Snedeker, Wesley Bryan, Pat Perez, Gary Woodland, Bill Haas, Billy Horschel, Brian Harman, William McGirt, J.B. Holmes, Brendan Steele, Charley Hoffman, Russell Henley, Scott Piercy, Webb Simpson, Kevin Na, Zach Johnson, Bryson DeChambeau, Peter Uihlein, Stewart Cink, Davis Love IV...
  • British & Irish: Rory McIlroy, Justin Rose, Paul Casey, Tyrrell Hatton, Danny Willett, Tommy Fleetwood, Matthew Fitzpatrick, Russell Knox, Ross Fisher, Lee Westwood, Chris Wood, Shane Lowry, Graeme McDowell, Martin Laird, Andrew Johnston, Bradley Dredge, Matt Wallace, Aaron Rai, Paul Dunne.
  • Continental Europeans: Henrik Stenson, Alex Noren, Sergio Garcia, Jon Rahm, Rafael Cabrera Bello, Francesco Molinari, Thomas Pieters, Bernd Wiesberger, Martin Kaymer, Alexander Levy, Gregory Bourdy, David Lingmerth, Stephan Jaeger.
  • South Africans: Charl Schwartzel, Louis Oosthuizen, Branden Grace, Brandon Stone, George Coetzee, Thomas Aiken, Ernie Els.
  • Asians: Hideki Matsuyama, Siwoo Kim, Byeong Hun An, Jeunghun Wang, Hideto Tanihara, Yuta Ikeda, Satoshi Kodaira, Yusaku Miyazato, Shugo Imahira, Li Haotong, CT Pan, Meenwhee Kim.
  • Other notable players: Jason Day, Adam Scott, Marc Leishman, Adam Hadwin, Emiliano Grillo, Jhonattan Vegas, Ángel Cabrera, Andrés Romero.
Notable players missing:
  • Ryan Moore, Jhonattan Vegas, Fabrizio Zanotti, Dylan Frittelli, Scott Hend, Danny Lee, Dean Burmester, Graham Delaet.
  • Anirban Lahiri, Thongchai Jaidee, Kiradech Aphibarnrat, KT Kim, Sunghoon Kang, Younghan Song.
  • Andy Sullivan, Soren Kjeldsen, Joost Luiten, Luke Donald, Ian Poulter, Thorbjorn Olesen, Pablo Larrazábal, Nicolas Colsaerts.
There are only 23 countries represented, and the British Isles count as five. I think that the majors should give automatic invitations to the best player of the top 30 countries.


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