BigHook25, on 10 June 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:
Howard Jones, on 10 June 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:
BigHook25, on 08 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:
bcflyguy1, on 08 June 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:
Stinger26, on 08 June 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:
I'm wondering if people think graphite technology has advanced enough to make the benefits of puring (if there are any) minimal.
Yes, it has. Lots of independent testing has shown this to be the case.
Can't help but notice that the loudest proponents of shaft puring are the custom fitting places that have that equipment they need to pay for.
Having said that, if going through that process will give you added confidence in the club, it's up to you to decide whether that confidence comes at good value for what you'll pay.
Agree with this and also seen tests that showed no difference in performance of a "pured" shaft versus one that is not. I also think the tolerances and technology with the golf shafts is so much better now. Just think back in the 80's and even into the 90's how cheap some of the graphite shafts were. Now, many of the graphite shafts are made with a composite of materials and are very high quality.
Has anyone of you seen what tolerances OEMs accept for loft and lie or swing weight, or what tolerances shaft manufacturer accept for flex strength or profile differences within production? Has any one of you seen a set of irons where specs was as advertised, or for what tolerances they accept for driver lofts?
I guess the answers to all this questions is NO, but still you talk about tolerances as if they where know numbers and something we can relate too?
Shaft FLO or PURING is a quality control, and by knowledge we improve quality, juts like TT weight sort their shafts to Tour Issue for better weight and flex match. How much it matters is a question of if club specs matters in the first place, and how far off they might be vs what fits the actual player.
I never made a club without FLOing the shaft, and i never will, i both want and need to know specs of the clubs i make, or they could just be assembled in china with the lack of quality control and the tolerances there is. Thats not the kind of clubs i advocate, because you never know what you get.
We have 2 different scenarios here. the first is where a player has been to a TRUE Club fitting, and the demo equipment has known specs. To duplicate the best club found during fitting, ALL club specs must be duplicated, so with Shaft specs, and thats where FLO or PURING comes into it.
The other scenario is where someone is buying a shaft because he thinks it might fit him, in that case, FLO or PURE most likely dont matter at all, since the player dont really know what shaft specs he seeks.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but until I see facts that show a "pured" shaft performs better then a non "pured" shaft, then I'm not sure if puring is worth it or relevant. If someone can provide me data that it makes a substantial difference, then I would change my mind.
You quoted me, but without understanding my point at all, so il try again.
As a Club fitter, i need to know actual specs of the club used during fitting to be able to make a exact copy of that club.
To make a exact copy of the fitting club, we also need shaft specs, not only for length and weight, but also for flex.
Its being stated that "tolerances" of today is so tight, that a quality test like FLO with weak and strong FLO line is not needed.
That completely wrong, and il show you that on a list of random shafts i measured in my shop.
For the sake of example, lets say the fitting ended up with PFC 60 S as the preferred shaft.
I had 5 of that model in stock, so now the question is, can i just pick any of those 5 shafts, and make a club IDENTICAL to the club used during fitting?
The answer is NO, depending on how the 5 options of the same model is installed, Label up/down, or to Weak vs Strong FLO line, actual flex will be very different, so i have to pick the shaft where both weight and measured flex is as close as can be to the club used during fitting.
You are stating "but until I see facts that show a "pured" shaft performs better then a non "pured" shaft, then I'm not sure if puring is worth it or relevant."
This is NOT what this is all about, its NOT a question of if a FLOed shaft behavior makes a difference, but if MEASURED FLEX is equal to the fitting club, and when we measure flex, we know there is a weak and a strong FLO line, so we should measure both, and install the shaft on the FLO line where flex match is the best possible.
We should NOT use tip trim to alter flex on graphite woods to get to a target CPM. messing with tip length changes the shaft profile, so if a non-tipped shaft measure a certain CPM, its NOT a good idea to tip trim a weaker shaft of the same model to duplicate a stronger brother. We have 2 FLO lines on every shaft, we should use the line where flex is the closest.
NOW the question is, would you as a player, after being fitted to actual specs, get a club who feels and works the same as the fitting club, if we just picked any of the 5 shaft options in stock? The answer is NO, and depending on actual specs on the fitting club, we might pick a shaft where flex is a hole flex stronger in this case, and you as a player WILL notice
If we just picked a random shaft of the 5, and installed the shaft as typical with label up or down, the weakest shaft had a butt CPM of 258 and the strongest 265. Thats 7 CPM and we count 10 CPM as one hole flex, so we have options who say they are the same, but almost a hole flex apart.
If we used FLO, but no CPM reading, we dont make it right either.
The weakest option of the 5 measure 257 on the weak flo line, while the strongest option on the strong FLO line measure 265, so now its 8 CPM from weakest to strongest option. Using FLO without CPM reading actually expanded the flex range, we made it even worse from weakest to strongest
This is the tolerances thats actually is present, quality is not any better than this, not even for TOUR ISSUE models, just look at the 2 S-flex versions of Grafalloy TOUR in the same list. They have a difference of 8 CPM label up/down, and 12 CPM if we used weak vs strong FLO line.
FLO with CPM is a quality control to be able to build a copy of a club used during fitting.
The process itself makes little or no improvement to a shaft the player was not fitted to play in the first place, so we DONT FLO for the sake of FLO, but to be able to measure flex to pick the right shaft from stock who is as identical as possible to the shaft used during a fitting.