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Biggest Misses on Golf Digest 2017 State Rankings

rankings golf digest golf courses

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#31 MyShortGameSucks

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 07:48 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 07 June 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

View Postcbbaron, on 07 June 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

And the course in Boston area I say is similar to Quintero Granite Links makes the Massachusetts list and neither of the Pinehills courses especially the Jones which I and many others feel is far superior didn't make list.

Yeah, Granite Links doesn't belong...but it's #18. When you get that far down the list, it probably has more to do with how many raters have played it.

Totally agree.  I would say Granite Links is an awful, over-priced  layout.   If it was not for the cool vista and the fun 19th hole it would have nothing to recommend it.  I would say there are at least 10 better public courses in MA let alone private and public. We can start with the 5 courses in Plymouth, Crumpin Fox, The Ranch, Red Tail, Shaker Hills, Wachusett, Butterbrook, KettleBrook etc and we haven't even covered the Cape yet :)

Oh and I know of at least 2 members at Granite Links who used to be GD raters.  Coincidence?

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#32 aabcuue

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:50 PM

View PostQMany, on 07 June 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

Golf Digest's Ranking criteria is a joke, and these lists reflect that.

Agree. I think they purposely change the criteria to:
1 Get people to buy the mag.

2 Debate is PV or Augusta or PB/Crypress better.

3 Get people complain their course isn't ranked better

4 Rotate statisfying travel advertisers who is better national and in state.

There is no other reason for annual guide. Not that much changes year to year in state.
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#33 cbbaron

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:53 PM

View PostMyShortGameSucks, on 08 June 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 07 June 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

View Postcbbaron, on 07 June 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

And the course in Boston area I say is similar to Quintero Granite Links makes the Massachusetts list and neither of the Pinehills courses especially the Jones which I and many others feel is far superior didn't make list.

Yeah, Granite Links doesn't belong...but it's #18. When you get that far down the list, it probably has more to do with how many raters have played it.

Totally agree.  I would say Granite Links is an awful, over-priced  layout.   If it was not for the cool vista and the fun 19th hole it would have nothing to recommend it.  I would say there are at least 10 better public courses in MA let alone private and public. We can start with the 5 courses in Plymouth, Crumpin Fox, The Ranch, Red Tail, Shaker Hills, Wachusett, Butterbrook, KettleBrook etc and we haven't even covered the Cape yet :)

Oh and I know of at least 2 members at Granite Links who used to be GD raters.  Coincidence?
You are right about the restaurant at GL wife got her Masters two weeks from Suffolk took our guests there for dinner after ceremony

Edited by cbbaron, 08 June 2017 - 10:06 PM.

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#34 aabcuue

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:04 PM

View PostQMany, on 07 June 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:


I completely agree. Again, this comes down to criteria. The atmosphere, clubhouse, practice facilities are great. But as far as the golf course goes, meh.

I'll defer the USGA course raters who assign the slope and rating. Most of them think the GD guide amusing and somewhat necessary evil.

Call it the Department of Commerce for Golf advertising in one place. Leave it the USGA & professionals to give an independent and non-advertising based rating.

Will give the touring pros a 2nd for course rating. Yet, each pro has some different critera (e.g. does course fit game and sponser needs) but largely they have similar views. Their rankings are far different than GD.
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#35 aabcuue

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:07 PM

View PostHighSpeedScene, on 07 June 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Illinois list has only one public course!  And it's way overrated.  Cog Hill - there are at least 10 public courses in IL I would rather play than Dubs.

Edit: played the vast majority of the privates, and I think it's pretty good.  Exmoor could be higher, and I think Conway farms is too high, but not bad overall.

Will agree on your rating of Cog Hill. Most of the pros hated the last revision. That is why the FedEx Playoff tournament has left there.

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#36 TUGolfer06

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:13 PM

For PA

- Our private courses are world class. Our public courses are subpar..
- Bedford Springs and Olde Stonewall are better public tracks than Nemacolin's Mystic Rock course imo. Bedford is a historic masterpiece.  
- Saucon Valley is a mecca for golf! It simply does get the praise it deserves nationally imo. If I could have a membership anywhere in the Northeast that's where I would choose.
- I don't think there's a single person in the Scranton/WB area that would pick #13 Huntsville over the Old Course at the CC of Scranton.

Edited by TUGolfer06, 08 June 2017 - 11:14 PM.

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#37 medicoreMAgolfer

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:33 AM

View PostTUGolfer06, on 08 June 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

For PA
- Saucon Valley is a mecca for golf! It simply does get the praise it deserves nationally imo. If I could have a membership anywhere in the Northeast that's where I would choose.

I got to play Weyhill last year for the first time - what a special place.  Hope to play the other two this fall on my next trip.  Sadly, I had to turn down (yesterday) an invite for a one day member guest in July due to a conflict (work!)

A guy I played with on my trip is a Chicago area golfer in high end sales.  After our visit, he decided to join SV as a National member (he thinks it is the perfect place to take prospective clients) so he not only agrees with your comment he ran with it...

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#38 BrianL99

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM

View PostPreppySlapCut, on 08 June 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 08 June 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

Essex?  Granite Links? Vesper?  TPC Boston?  Vineyard Club?


Anyone who would put these courses in the Top 20 in MA, needs to get out more.

Essex is a neat golf course and is of historical interest, but that's it.

Granite Links is awful.  Nice views, but a horrible design in my opinion.  Not that they had much to work with.

Vesper?  Sure, maybe 30 years ago.

TPC Boston?  Thoroughly average golf course.

The Vineyard Club?  It plays and looks like a Muni.  Farm Neck is a far better golf course and only 5 minutes away.
I don't see any way someone can play Essex and think there are 20 tracks in the state that are better.

I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

I like some Donald Ross courses, but just because he "designed them" (or more likely, did the routing), doesn't make them great.

& for what's it worth, I like Essex a lot.  I just don't think it's all that great of a golf course and like many others of its ilk, it's done nothing to move into the 21st Century golf world.

Old does not = great.   When George Burns turned 100, people talked about him like he was the funniest guy on earth.   He was nothing but a footnote in the history of comedy, until got into his 90's ... same with Bob Hope.

Edited by BrianL99, 09 June 2017 - 06:03 AM.


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#39 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:39 AM

View PostHighSpeedScene, on 07 June 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Illinois list has only one public course!  And it's way overrated.  Cog Hill - there are at least 10 public courses in IL I would rather play than Dubs.

I haven't played many IL courses but agree that Cog Hill is way overrated.

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#40 nix

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:41 AM

I think that there are different criteria for different things. I'd like to see a ranking that includes all of the things mentioned, including staff and clubhouse amenties, but then show those individual scores so we can re sort them to see what our personal preferences would indicate.

I think that when you include things like clubhouse, etc then it just strongly favors the private clubs for obvious reasons.  It's all subjective.


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#41 hollabachgt

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:53 AM

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

I'd like to explore this notion for a bit If you'd indulge me.

There is a clear slant in both rankings and the selection of tournament venues towards older courses. Which in today's world is a bit puzzling, how is it that so many modern architects and newly constructed courses are just not as good as their counterparts from 100 years ago? One would think that, much like the art world, having the ability to study the great masterpieces of yesterday would only help the designs of today surpass them, but that still does not seem to be the case.

Recollection often leads us to ignore the weak or inferior and only highlight the strong, so when discussing the courses from the golden age we often ignore courses like Marion Golf Course in Massachusetts for the Marion Golf Club in Pennsylvania. The same thing happens in music, We remember the hits from yesterday but not the failures, while anything presented to us today the failures seem to stand out the most. As the cream rises to the top recollection seems to help us look more favorable on these courses. But I think this is only a piece of why.

7 or 8 years ago I began playing hickory golf, At the time I was reading a lot of text written by golden age architects and authors and I wanted to better understand the design decisions they made in the context of how the game was played at the time. Playing golf with hickory shafted clubs has given me an extended appreciation for why we often find the older courses so charming and endearing. It is with this more ground dependent game common with hickory golf that I believe has set the older courses apart from their modern counterparts. The pliability and options that were so prevalent in golf became lost over time as the game became one played more exclusively through the air. It was during this period of post war america through the mid 1990's that courses were build towards a new aerial strategy. While at the time they were viewed as tremendous, time has slowly shifted back in favor of the still older courses and only a few example from this period are still  kept in high esteem. The stark contrast between playing styles really separates the era of courses, while this may not be as apparent for the highly skilled player, it is critically important for the average player and is reflected in the evaluation of modern vs. classic golf courses.

Now, over the last 20 years we've seen a resurgence of course construction that has returned some of the principles commonly found on the classic course, but it's going to take quite a bit of time for these course to finally establish themselves in the same light as the classics. They need more publicity and more people seeing them before their due recognition is given.

I believe the affordance in post war construction to build anything anywhere allowed architects to build courses for a new era of golf, but we have learned that many of the fundamentals they were relying upon have been found not to stand the test of time.

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#42 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:


I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.

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#43 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:58 AM

View Posthollabachgt, on 09 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

I believe the affordance in post war construction to build anything anywhere allowed architects to build courses for a new era of golf, but we have learned that many of the fundamentals they were relying upon have been found not to stand the test of time.

For example?

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#44 nix

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 10:10 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.

interesting, why. Haven't played either, but I hear a lot more about prarie dunes than flint hills.

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#45 hollabachgt

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:24 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

View Posthollabachgt, on 09 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

I believe the affordance in post war construction to build anything anywhere allowed architects to build courses for a new era of golf, but we have learned that many of the fundamentals they were relying upon have been found not to stand the test of time.

For example?

Courses that shortly after they were built were consider world class and who's prestige and consideration has fallen tremendously from their lofty starts would be places like Kemper Lakes, the original PGA National, Bellrieve, Champions, etc...

Or are you asking about design and construction fundamentals? A great comparison there would be Shadow Creek and Sand Hills. Shadow Creek was a project the first of its kind, building a world class course from a completely blank canvas and while still well regarded, it is no longer considered a top 10 course in the US like it was in the early 90's. Sand Hills was also a first of its kind project but for opposite reasons. The start of the remote golf destination, land selection was placed at a paramount and construction was held to an absolute minimal. Over the last 20 years the course has only been viewed more and more favorably and it is often viewed as the best golf course built in the last 30 years. The success of Sand Hills can be directly seen in the development of other remote golf properties like Ballyneal, Bandon, Cabot, and Sand Valley.

On the flip side it is also very interesting to see the classic era courses that have grown in reverence in recent years due to a rediscover or restoration done to the property, such as Fishers Island and Philly Cricket.


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#46 Drudersh

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:31 AM

For a small audience, but for there to be such a small pool of courses to examine and for Biderman to be left off the list in Delaware is laziness or incompetence. 100% better than Wilmington South and not even on there.

Edited by Drudersh, 09 June 2017 - 11:31 AM.

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#47 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:20 PM

View Postnix, on 09 June 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.

interesting, why. Haven't played either, but I hear a lot more about prarie dunes than flint hills.

I've played both and enjoyed both.

You will always hear more about PD than FH.  Magazine rankings consider things that some of us don't care as much about;

1. PD was designed by Perry Maxwell.
2. PD is 82 years old.
3. PD was built with minimal earth movement using only horses and mules so it's more natural.
4. PD was laid out for walking.

But to me, FH is much more beautiful and more fun to play.  I don't care how old the course is.  I don't care who designed it. And I don't care if they used horses or bulldozers.  Beauty is beauty.

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#48 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:24 PM

View Posthollabachgt, on 09 June 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

View Posthollabachgt, on 09 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

I believe the affordance in post war construction to build anything anywhere allowed architects to build courses for a new era of golf, but we have learned that many of the fundamentals they were relying upon have been found not to stand the test of time.

For example?

Courses that shortly after they were built were consider world class and who's prestige and consideration has fallen tremendously from their lofty starts would be places like Kemper Lakes, the original PGA National, Bellrieve, Champions, etc...

Or are you asking about design and construction fundamentals? A great comparison there would be Shadow Creek and Sand Hills. Shadow Creek was a project the first of its kind, building a world class course from a completely blank canvas and while still well regarded, it is no longer considered a top 10 course in the US like it was in the early 90's. Sand Hills was also a first of its kind project but for opposite reasons. The start of the remote golf destination, land selection was placed at a paramount and construction was held to an absolute minimal. Over the last 20 years the course has only been viewed more and more favorably and it is often viewed as the best golf course built in the last 30 years. The success of Sand Hills can be directly seen in the development of other remote golf properties like Ballyneal, Bandon, Cabot, and Sand Valley.

On the flip side it is also very interesting to see the classic era courses that have grown in reverence in recent years due to a rediscover or restoration done to the property, such as Fishers Island and Philly Cricket.

I'm trying to understand your point.  What  "fundamentals they were relying upon" have not stood the test of time?   There are very few courses like Shadow Creek.

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#49 GOUFGO

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:28 PM

View Postmoonshine, on 07 June 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

I think putting The Judge above both Grand National courses in AL is a joke.  Hard...yes.  Good...LOL.  They left off Farm Links and it is way better than Judge as well.  I think Willow Point belongs on the list not a bad hole and many on the second 9 right on the water.

I wouldn't even rate The Judge as the best course at Cap Hill.  Agree though, Lake Course at GN beats Judge hands down.  Links probably does too, but refuse to rate it that high because of how it treats me every time I play it.

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#50 bazinky

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:31 PM

If you need evidence of the quality of these ratings, one of the courses on the list for my state isn't even open anymore!

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#51 Roadking2003

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 01:29 PM

View Postmoonshine, on 07 June 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

I think putting The Judge above both Grand National courses in AL is a joke.  Hard...yes.  Good...LOL.  They left off Farm Links and it is way better than Judge as well.  I think Willow Point belongs on the list not a bad hole and many on the second 9 right on the water.

I've only played a few courses in AL but am surprised that Ross Bridge didn't make the top ten.  I thought it was really nice.

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#52 nix

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:08 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postnix, on 09 June 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.

interesting, why. Haven't played either, but I hear a lot more about prarie dunes than flint hills.

I've played both and enjoyed both.

You will always hear more about PD than FH.  Magazine rankings consider things that some of us don't care as much about;

1. PD was designed by Perry Maxwell.
2. PD is 82 years old.
3. PD was built with minimal earth movement using only horses and mules so it's more natural.
4. PD was laid out for walking.

But to me, FH is much more beautiful and more fun to play.  I don't care how old the course is.  I don't care who designed it. And I don't care if they used horses or bulldozers.  Beauty is beauty.

That's interesting, I'm not just talking about magazines though. I'm in the KC area so lots of people in the area can and have played at the courses. Not suggesting your wrong, just was wondering why you thought so. I've never played either, so I have no opinion on the matter.

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#53 DoubleorQuits

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:19 PM

I think they nailed it.

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#54 FairwayFred

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:59 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:


I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.

LOL good thing 99/100 would disagree with you.  I'd say that was the most ridiculous thing you have posted about architecture but I've read too many of your posts and know that's unfortunately not true.
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#55 AC168

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:07 PM

A lot of courses are off because they didn't get enough votes -- i.e. Not enough panelists seeing them.


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#56 GDTBATH

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 08:35 AM

View Posttarheel golf, on 08 June 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Big miss on NC courses. No Mid Pines, Elk River, or Linville Golf Club.

Agreed. There aren't 7 courses better than Grandfather either.

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#57 HighSpeedScene

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:00 AM

Love how every course architecture/design thread ends up with roadking and fairway Fred arguing about whether the porterhouse or the osso buco is better (it's a metaphor, people).

You guys have both played a lot of great courses and I'm pretty sure you both have great taste - different, but great.

Gun to my head: agree with Fred more often.  But, Fred, unfair for you to call roadkings opinions stupid.  Some people love jack courses - they can't all be wrong!

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#58 Chomper

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:18 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

I think way too many people confuse "classic", "old" or "quirky" with "great" ... in golf courses, as well as many other things in life.

Just because Donald Ross lived on Essex doesn't make it great, but many seem to think it does.  He was the Pro at Oakley and that course wouldn't make anyone's list of the Top 500 Golf Courses in MA.

To suggest all these courses that were built in the days of Hickory, without the use of bulldozers or modern earth moving equipment ... and hardly changed since, compare with the work of Rees Jones, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, Crenshaw/Coore or Pete Dye, is just pretentious BS.

This is true. Almost every ranking by magazines gives more credit if the course was designed by one of the legends.  

A good example is in Kansas.  I would pick Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes in a heartbeat.
Wow. I played both courses on back to back days this spring. The two courses, other than being in KS, are not comparable. I had a hard time remembering many of the FHN front 9 holes, even playing them under par! PD holes, otoh, I can remember them like I played yesterday.

Different strokes, I imagine, as evident in your statement.

The amenities are also not comparable. FHN is like the Ritz, PD like a B&B - depends on what you are looking at.

Edited by Chomper, 10 June 2017 - 11:19 AM.


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#59 FairwayFred

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:23 AM

View PostHighSpeedScene, on 10 June 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

Love how every course architecture/design thread ends up with roadking and fairway Fred arguing about whether the porterhouse or the osso buco is better (it's a metaphor, people).

You guys have both played a lot of great courses and I'm pretty sure you both have great taste - different, but great.

Gun to my head: agree with Fred more often.  But, Fred, unfair for you to call roadkings opinions stupid.  Some people love jack courses - they can't all be wrong!

I didn't use the word stupid I said ridiculous.  I don't think RK understands the nuances of golf course architecture at all,  he seems to only favor courses he thinks are beautiful or have good scenery or have held tournaments or have a nice clubhouse which has nothing to do with actually playing the game of golf.  Anyone who says Old Head is their favorite course in Ireland clearly cares more about views and scenery than actually playing the game of golf.  This all from a guy who actually suggested replacing long grass and native with water hazards because he doesn't like looking for balls.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and there is no wrong when discussing course architecture but RK is a prolific poster in this forum and I hope people don't listen too hard to his opinion or risk being steared very much in the wrong direction.  For example anyone who chose to play Flint Hills National over Prairie Dunes is making a tragic mistake missing one of the world's best courses and sets of greens to go play a generic Fazio design that is not hardly any different than any of his other courses.  It's also dangerous to put yourself out there as knowledgeable when you aren't his dissertation on Prairie Dunes was filled with facts that aren't true.  Example only 9 holes at PD are Perry Maxwell and only 9 holes were built before modern Earth moving equipment.

Edited by FairwayFred, 10 June 2017 - 11:27 AM.

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#60 DoubleorQuits

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 12:46 PM

Regarding the Georgia list, Cuscowilla and Augusta CC shoukd be well inside the top 10, possibly top 5.  How Lookout Mountain is not even listed is a mystery.  


As for South Caroline, you can quibble about the order, but the right courses are listed.


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