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Would a Fitter try to "Sell" you?


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#31 rsh0308

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:44 PM

I was told they don't make commission by my fitter at CC... I don't mind the upsell but they shouldn't mind that I paid my for my fitting and walked out without a club.

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#32 KC13

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 03:18 PM

I was recently fitted by a Srixon rep within a "big box store" and he didn't press me for upgrades.  He even advised me not to purchase a certain newer Srixon club as he felt another branded club that he spotted in the used bin would fit my swing characteristics.  Obviously each experience with a fitter is different but if you feel like your fitting didn't improve the numbers and the fitter is just loading your bag with gold-plated Honma....walk away.
To golf or not to golf???  What a stupid question...

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#33 Judge Smales

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:29 PM

View Postmmoran, on 02 June 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'm willing to bet a $3000 quote at CC brings their average down considerably.  Mine full bag quote was $5100 using my current driver head.  So add $500 for the SZ he was pushing.

Bingo

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#34 bird_4_3

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:44 PM

Oban gives fitters a huge kick back.  Those shafts will always be pushed
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#35 golfdad907

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:04 PM

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

I went to a fitter who built clubs, Miura, Epon, Cally, TM and others.  Think had the first Odyssey putter fitting center is US and we focused a lot on the shafts.  I also received a lesson/tip or two that was a bonus.

The aftermarket are worth it, some more than others.  Anything more than 150 or so upcharge is likely vanity for most players.

Some clubs I changed, some I left as is (Razr Fit TA with early Blueboard), my irons were all CPMd and in tune, loft check and lie and were about $1000 for fitting, shafts, loft/lie and Iomic grips (which are still on and very close to new after 5 years) so to me, totally worth it, as still play them and my son uses regularly.

I was able to use specs to find my Apex Pros.

If soley pushing one brand, provided you gave price constraint, have them show you on Trackman or whatever used to fit you.

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#36 phatchrisrules

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 06:39 AM

View PostSnowBound Golfer, on 02 June 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 02 June 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

I'll chime in from the other side of the table, as a fitter.  Maybe I am the lone dissenter here but I really do try and find something that is going to work for someone on a budget, if they request it.  Getting a proper fitting requires open lines of communication.  If you come in and just start pounding balls and just blindly hit what is given to you and then the total is, say $1000, for a set of irons, or $500 for a driver, and your budget was $700 or $350, you're going to be annoyed and think the guy is a rip-off artist.  My usual script involves talking about price immediately after discovering the person's reasons for being there that day.  Most people are pretty wishy-washy when it comes to price "not something that is going to break the bank,", so I always stop them right there and ask point blank "humour me and pretend you are walking out the door with something today, what is a price you are comfortable spending?"  That usually gets me a pretty clear cut answer on what they want to spend.  If the person still is open ended and legitimately doesn't care as long it works, then I tend to jump right over the sale stuff (like Aeroburner, XR, F6, etc.) and go straight for current line stuff.  It makes it easier on both of us as well, because just in case I make a combination in the fitting cart that works really well, I might not have it on the floor and I can easily just special order it in.  However, if I have a combination that I have told is going to work in a sale club and I don't have it, I either have to back track and explain why combination B is going to work okay, or explain that the difference in loft and shaft is close but not ideal, but they'd be okay with it anyways.

I do agree that many high-end fitting studios really push the supercharged, upgraded shafts.  I have two of them within an hour's drive of my store and I have lost count of the amount of people coming in saying they got fit for some supercharged Graphite Design, Accra, or mega exotic steel shaft that 1 in 100,000 has never head of (Shimada, for example).  Then when I get them on the monitor because they are unhappy with it (more likely buyer's remorse) it makes no difference to them, and often times, they hit a stock club better.  I actually had an interview at one of these places when it first opened up late last year and when I asked what one of the goals of the place was, the hiring manager flat out told me that after providing top notch customer service, part of my job was going to be explaining to people why this $400+ shaft is going to really make a difference to their game versus a stock offering.  Sure, it might, but chances are it won't.  I didn't get the job because he probably saw my eyebrow raise a little bit at that.

So, to end this novel I've just typed, a fitter is absolutely in the business to sell you something.  You are out of it if you think we are there to keep re-fitting your mid-1990s Hogan blades to help you hit it better and better.  We have to keep the lights on and feed our families too.  I always tell people they are under no obligation to buy anything from me, it is absolutely a recommendation of an ideal.  Then I walk them through the differences between what they were doing versus what they are doing now and emphasize the positives, which are usually universal if they are coming from a 10+ year old set.  Using this approach I sell the vast majority of product I recommend, maybe it's because I never push an upsell, maybe because I make the right choices subconsciously because I have been doing this for so long, or maybe it's because they are going to buy no matter how little the improvement is, I'll never know.  But let it be known that not all fitters are there to pump out $500 Epics with a $400 shaft upgrade and a $100 Pureing and grip package.  There are some of us who believe that most after market shafts are just non-sense and a "stock" shaft in most cases is going to work the same, if not better.
Great comment.
Could it be that some buyers come in expecting a great fitting but only want to pay the price of clearance items at the big box store? When you give them a quote, they get mad at the cost and feel they are getting ripped off? I agree that budgets should be discussed up front, in order to not waste anyone's time.

I mean it definitely is possible.  With the ubiquity of "get fit" nowadays being pushed everywhere, it doesn't surprise me that your weekend warrior that pays little to no attention to equipment and prices has no idea exactly what is involved in it.  Part of the issue as well is I think a lot of terminology gets mixed up.  I still see people come in and are amazed they can try a golf club before they buy it, and you know, we've only been in business for 15 years at least.  So someone says they got "fit" for a set of golf clubs is synonymous with just hitting a few shots with an Aeroburner, F6, and XR driver to see which one worked best, while a true fitting takes into account all the variables, as most of us on here know.

You're right, there are still a lot of people that are so far out of touch of reality with how much golf equipment costs, that I feel their ignorance is not justified.  A favourite of mine was a guy I did a fitting for about a month or two ago.  An older guy, he wanted graphite shafts, needed senior flex, and as many hybrids as he could get, but he had a budget of $500 CAD, firm.  Let me just start off by saying the least expensive set of irons we have that even remotely match that description are $700.  I sold him that set, Callaway N416 combo (basically a big box set of value line Callaway clubs without cup faces), and while he initially balked at the cost, showing him some various options that would target his budget a bit better (Wilson D100s with steel shafts and he could add a hybrid on the 3i spot) produced horrible results on the monitor.  Luckily he was an agreeable enough guy that he was able to see my point that his view of cost didn't match up to reality and he walked away very happy with his purchase.

So I think golfers in general are just very uninformed people.  Most of the people I get in the store have no idea how much literally anything golf related costs, from the price of a grip, all the way up to a fully customized set of AP2s.  They have no idea whatsoever.  I feel it is just a general disinterest in trying to learn because they figure someone else already knows, or they have that "friend" who is a "good player" and if they don't know what it is/what it costs/what it does, they don't need to know about it and don't want to know about.  I have been told that a $6 grip is too expensive and that if they bought more than 5 they are owed a discount, I have been told that a store in Florida that a couple frequents when on vacation doesn't charge install when you buy a grip so why do you, I have been told to my face without an ounce of tact that someone can go to any other store in the country and get the exact same club we had in front of them for at least $100 cheaper.  My favourite example of this is a guy wanted to buy a preowned G30 driver that was marked at exactly 50% off the sale retail price, the one issue was that it had a stiff shaft and he wanted regular.  One of our new ones had a regular flex and he was wondering if we could do a switch for him.  I asked my GM and all he had to do was buy a grip so we had a new grip on the new club, so y'know, someone isn't spending full retail on a driver and getting a dirty, worn grip.  He whipped his hand up in the "stop" gesture in my face, told me firmly no that he wasn't interested in doing that, and walked out of the store in a huff.  You get all kinds, and while I generally have a very calm disposition, the people who want everything for nothing are the ones that really get under my skin because it is so easy to become informed these days, it is just pure ignorance that is allowing them to be so uninformed on something they obviously enjoy.  Sorry for the rant.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 03 June 2017 - 06:45 AM.

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#37 Rguy1992

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 01:39 PM

View PostBB28403, on 01 June 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

Wondering if a Fitter might try to steer a player (during a fitting) toward a driver or set of clubs with the highest profit margin?

We try not to. Fittings are what we do. I get paid regardless of what you get. If a fitting is free, it's probably gonna suck.

We don't "steer" but if we see you hitting one obviously better than the others, we will "recommend" that one. That's why I never ask a price point that they're looking for, I give them 3 swings with a lot of clubs, then have them pick the top 5 based on their own opinions, not the numbers. Then i use the numbers to whittle it down to 2-3. From there I find the driver setting best for them, and. Try and set all three in the same setting. Then they pick the one. And I write up a note card with the club and settings.
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#38 raynorfan1

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM

My experience with club champion was that they put me into the best fit shaft - which happened to be a no-upcharge custom from the OEM. BUT then they told me that the way they build clubs is you buy the stock driver ($499) then the aftermarket shaft, because the OEM can't be trusted to build it custom ($200), then the grip ($15) then you pay them to put it all together ($100), plus $40 if you get the shaft pured, which you really should,, no credit for the fitting ($150), and voila, you've spent $1,000 on a driver you could order from a discounter for $350 (plus the $150 sunk in the fitting).

Can I get the shaft pull from the stock driver they buy? No. Can I bring them just a head and have them do the rest? Well, yes, but then we'd charge $100 for the adapter, and we have a special relationship with the OEM that gets us the tightest spec heads (sure you do...), so if you went this route, it wouldn't be as good as the club you were fit for.

I don't blame them. In the end, they were truely upselling THEIR service/capabilities. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for what they did. But I'm happy with how it went. The $150 I spent (plus $350 at discount dan's) got me the best driver I have ever had in my bag - and one I never would have considered off the rack. Worth every penny.

Edited by raynorfan1, 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM.


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#39 phatchrisrules

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:55 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

My experience with club champion was that they put me into the best fit shaft - which happened to be a no-upcharge custom from the OEM. BUT then they told me that the way they build clubs is you buy the stock driver ($499) then the aftermarket shaft, because the OEM can't be trusted to build it custom ($200), then the grip ($15) then you pay them to put it all together ($100), plus $40 if you get the shaft pured, which you really should,, no credit for the fitting ($150), and voila, you've spent $1,000 on a driver you could order from a discounter for $350 (plus the $150 sunk in the fitting).

Can I get the shaft pull from the stock driver they buy? No. Can I bring them just a head and have them do the rest? Well, yes, but then we'd charge $100 for the adapter, and we have a special relationship with the OEM that gets us the tightest spec heads (sure you do...), so if you went this route, it wouldn't be as good as the club you were fit for.

I don't blame them. In the end, they were truely upselling THEIR service/capabilities. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for what they did. But I'm happy with how it went. The $150 I spent (plus $350 at discount dan's) got me the best driver I have ever had in my bag - and one I never would have considered off the rack. Worth every penny.

Amazing, absolutely amazing.  Some people will absolutely bite on that, and no bad vibes to them as it's their money not mine, but it seems weird that some people could be that uninformed or that gullible that they would fall for that.
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#40 raynorfan1

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 06:28 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 05 June 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

My experience with club champion was that they put me into the best fit shaft - which happened to be a no-upcharge custom from the OEM. BUT then they told me that the way they build clubs is you buy the stock driver ($499) then the aftermarket shaft, because the OEM can't be trusted to build it custom ($200), then the grip ($15) then you pay them to put it all together ($100), plus $40 if you get the shaft pured, which you really should,, no credit for the fitting ($150), and voila, you've spent $1,000 on a driver you could order from a discounter for $350 (plus the $150 sunk in the fitting).

Can I get the shaft pull from the stock driver they buy? No. Can I bring them just a head and have them do the rest? Well, yes, but then we'd charge $100 for the adapter, and we have a special relationship with the OEM that gets us the tightest spec heads (sure you do...), so if you went this route, it wouldn't be as good as the club you were fit for.

I don't blame them. In the end, they were truely upselling THEIR service/capabilities. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for what they did. But I'm happy with how it went. The $150 I spent (plus $350 at discount dan's) got me the best driver I have ever had in my bag - and one I never would have considered off the rack. Worth every penny.

Amazing, absolutely amazing.  Some people will absolutely bite on that, and no bad vibes to them as it's their money not mine, but it seems weird that some people could be that uninformed or that gullible that they would fall for that.

I considered it. A straw poll here and among my buddies was basically 50:50 - with the attitude basically being: "wouldn't you rather be SURE that it was perfect?"

In the end, I bought from a discounter and then hit the actual club on a trackman to see how far off it was from my fitting (it was basically exactly on).


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#41 Noyes26

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:06 PM

Every person I know that has had a fitting at Club Champion in my area has come out being fit for an ACCRA or Oban. It's in the double digits now.

I'm sorry I just find that super hard to believe.
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#42 BB28403

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

Is that a madoff company?  Someone research it ;)!

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#43 mmoran

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:53 PM

The number of Srixon irons with Modus shafts is probably just as high as the Accra/Oban combo.  $65 shafts from CC that were a no cost upgrade from Srixon.  The kicker for me at CC was when they would measure the swingweight of the demo club for "your build". With the adapters everything they put on the scale was in the E's at standard length.

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#44 ATAlxndr

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

View PostBB28403, on 02 June 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostJudge Smales, on 01 June 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

+$3000

They got me on the Accra shafts hook, line, and sinker. Will never return.

Wow.  I am sorry.  I just deduced this might be a problem.  I didn't realize it was systemic.

Cool clubs is another one guilty of this. We call Accra shafts the "cool clubs special" at my store because everyone that brings in their sticks from cool clubs has Accra shafts lol
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#45 hurricanes7

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 10:30 AM

let the fitter know in advance u just want the fitting and are buying your equipment from a friend. Nothing personal but my friend gets good deals and great prices so just recommend what is best for me.

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#46 raynorfan1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:45 AM

View Posthurricanes7, on 06 June 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

let the fitter know in advance u just want the fitting and are buying your equipment from a friend. Nothing personal but my friend gets good deals and great prices so just recommend what is best for me.

The Club Champion "FUD" sales approach is to tell you that THEY have unique access to "better" heads and shafts than other dealers. So while you *might* "get lucky" with the ones that the supplier ships your friend, only by purchasing from them can you be sure.

Why, you ask, are they blessed with all of the "best" stuff? Because they inspect and "test" everything that comes in, and return everything that doesn't meet their exacting specifications. Since the OEMs don't want to go through the hassle of processing the returns, they set aside "the best" stuff for the club makers that they know really care.

So sayeth the man trying to sell a $400 driver for $1,000.

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#47 SnowBound Golfer

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 12:03 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 06 June 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

View Posthurricanes7, on 06 June 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

let the fitter know in advance u just want the fitting and are buying your equipment from a friend. Nothing personal but my friend gets good deals and great prices so just recommend what is best for me.

The Club Champion "FUD" sales approach is to tell you that THEY have unique access to "better" heads and shafts than other dealers. So while you *might* "get lucky" with the ones that the supplier ships your friend, only by purchasing from them can you be sure.

Why, you ask, are they blessed with all of the "best" stuff? Because they inspect and "test" everything that comes in, and return everything that doesn't meet their exacting specifications. Since the OEMs don't want to go through the hassle of processing the returns, they set aside "the best" stuff for the club makers that they know really care.

So sayeth the man trying to sell a $400 driver for $1,000.
I wonder what makes the heads special that CC gets their hands on? At the end of the day, when components are mass produced, they can only be built to certain tolerances, whether it be loft, lie, face angle or weight. Each of these features can be adjusted by a good club builder. Even Tom Wishon components which probably have some of the tightest tolerances on the market, aren't perfect from piece to piece. He does however offer hand select or hand bending service to ensure the head specs are exactly what are needed.
I guess some fitter/builders can have customers believe that what they sell is better than anyone else.

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#48 phatchrisrules

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:28 PM

View PostSnowBound Golfer, on 06 June 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 06 June 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

View Posthurricanes7, on 06 June 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

let the fitter know in advance u just want the fitting and are buying your equipment from a friend. Nothing personal but my friend gets good deals and great prices so just recommend what is best for me.

The Club Champion "FUD" sales approach is to tell you that THEY have unique access to "better" heads and shafts than other dealers. So while you *might* "get lucky" with the ones that the supplier ships your friend, only by purchasing from them can you be sure.

Why, you ask, are they blessed with all of the "best" stuff? Because they inspect and "test" everything that comes in, and return everything that doesn't meet their exacting specifications. Since the OEMs don't want to go through the hassle of processing the returns, they set aside "the best" stuff for the club makers that they know really care.

So sayeth the man trying to sell a $400 driver for $1,000.
I wonder what makes the heads special that CC gets their hands on? At the end of the day, when components are mass produced, they can only be built to certain tolerances, whether it be loft, lie, face angle or weight. Each of these features can be adjusted by a good club builder. Even Tom Wishon components which probably have some of the tightest tolerances on the market, aren't perfect from piece to piece. He does however offer hand select or hand bending service to ensure the head specs are exactly what are needed.
I guess some fitter/builders can have customers believe that what they sell is better than anyone else.

They don't have anything better than what I can get, or the guy down the street from me can get, or you can get.  It's their way of claiming they are superior, and a way for them to hose you an extra hundred or so bucks.  It's funny that all of these people are mentioning Accra and exotic Nippon shafts, because that is exactly what my local CC-clone store seems to pump out as well.  Most of the irons I hear about come out with Accra i80 or i90 depending on the person's weight preference.  I have lost count of the amount of people on a local golf forum that were fit for Srixon's with Super Peening Blues.  I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I did some quick research to see what the difference was between the Blues and Modus....they are almost identical to a Modus 125....yet, they cost probably $300+ a set when the Modus 125s are conveniently free of charge.

I am blocked from shedding light on them because I work for a competitor and risk getting banned (plus my post would be automatically deleted before more than 7-8 people could see it), but I really want to expose them and call them out.  I have no doubt that Accra makes some good stuff, but I always question how beneficial a 90g graphite shaft is at roughly $65+ a shaft, when a 90g steel shaft can do the exact same thing with pro soft inserts for less than half the price.  Call me skeptical, but I am.
G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
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Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Not sure yet on irons
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Nike Engage 55* Toe Sweep and 59* Square Sole - DG s300
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#49 raynorfan1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:07 PM

I begrudge them none of this. I think they are providing a service, and they're pretty up front about it.

I think we all agree that a good part of golf is mental. A big part of what you're buying from ANY "great" club builder is the confidence that you've got the right set up. And confidence matters a lot in this game.

Another huge factor driving sales is ego. I mean, who wants to spend $1,000 at Club Champion to walk out of there with a Titleist 917 with a stock blue board shaft? You went there because you WANT to be fit for the special purple one. So you can tell your friends all about how your special swing requires a rare Oban  shaft. I think their customer is a pretty self-selected group that actually wants the emperor's clothes that they're selling.

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#50 phatchrisrules

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:28 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 06 June 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

I begrudge them none of this. I think they are providing a service, and they're pretty up front about it.

I think we all agree that a good part of golf is mental. A big part of what you're buying from ANY "great" club builder is the confidence that you've got the right set up. And confidence matters a lot in this game.

Another huge factor driving sales is ego. I mean, who wants to spend $1,000 at Club Champion to walk out of there with a Titleist 917 with a stock blue board shaft? You went there because you WANT to be fit for the special purple one. So you can tell your friends all about how your special swing requires a rare Oban  shaft. I think their customer is a pretty self-selected group that actually wants the emperor's clothes that they're selling.

I would agree with this, absolutely.  I just don't like when they come back and b**** to me that they got ripped off or they can't hit it and expect me to take into account the cost of the shaft for "demo" pricing, or try and get me to fix it, for next to nothing.  I usually try and send them away to the store to talk it out but then they moan that it is an hour away and they can't make the trip.  I always bite my tongue and say "you did the first time..." under my breath.

G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - KK Silver DC 70X
Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Not sure yet on irons
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Nike Engage 55* Toe Sweep and 59* Square Sole - DG s300
Bettinardi Inovai

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#51 jschwarb

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:52 PM

I saw an independent fitter and a paid a flat fee to him at the end of the session, plus I told him in advance that I wanted a set of Ping irons that were going to be paid for by a guy I did some contract work for. So there wasn't going to be any upselling chances anyway, but I was really impressed when we talked drivers. I said I wasn't really in the market for a new one, but could we compare my six-year-old TM RBZ with the new Ping drivers? We did, and he told me there wasn't a Ping that could knock my current driver out of the bag, no matter what shafts we tried and head settings we used. Just found that pretty cool.

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#52 hurricanes7

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:12 PM

after i told my fitter i wasnt going to buy anything there he told me he wouldnt sell me a driver anyway until i fix my grip. pretty funny. More importantly i would never buy anything without testing it on the course first. I went for an iron fitting, got it down to 2 head ( srixon 765 and 565) and 2 shafts ( modus 105, modus 105x ss1x), so i ordered each combo and used it for a month on the course, then ordered what i thought was best for me. No way u can get fit indoors, with your swing that day ( unless u are adam scott), and leave with what exactly u need. U cant see ballflight indoors no matter what the machine says
GBB Epic Driver Oban Kiyoshi Gold 65s
GBB Epic 3 Wood Oban Kiyoshi Gold 75s
Mizuno CLK Hybrid Aldila Tour Blue 85s
Srixon 765/565 Irons Nippon Modus 105s
Callaway MD3 54 Wedge Modus 125
Callaway MD3 56 Wedge Modus 115
Callaway MD3 58 forged Wedge Modus 105
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#53 phatchrisrules

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:36 AM

View Posthurricanes7, on 06 June 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

after i told my fitter i wasnt going to buy anything there he told me he wouldnt sell me a driver anyway until i fix my grip. pretty funny. More importantly i would never buy anything without testing it on the course first. I went for an iron fitting, got it down to 2 head ( srixon 765 and 565) and 2 shafts ( modus 105, modus 105x ss1x), so i ordered each combo and used it for a month on the course, then ordered what i thought was best for me. No way u can get fit indoors, with your swing that day ( unless u are adam scott), and leave with what exactly u need. U cant see ballflight indoors no matter what the machine says

What monitors do you have at your local shop?  I am not trying to be a ******, but with the GC2s we have, my ballflight is exactly the same indoors as it is outside.  In fact, I might be just a touch straighter outside than indoors, but for the most part, they are quite similar.
G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - KK Silver DC 70X
Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Not sure yet on irons
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Nike Engage 55* Toe Sweep and 59* Square Sole - DG s300
Bettinardi Inovai

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#54 hurricanes7

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

For me hitting into an indoor net is useless, i want to watch the ball fly outside on the course
GBB Epic Driver Oban Kiyoshi Gold 65s
GBB Epic 3 Wood Oban Kiyoshi Gold 75s
Mizuno CLK Hybrid Aldila Tour Blue 85s
Srixon 765/565 Irons Nippon Modus 105s
Callaway MD3 54 Wedge Modus 125
Callaway MD3 56 Wedge Modus 115
Callaway MD3 58 forged Wedge Modus 105
Bettinardi Queen Bee #6
Callaway Chrome Soft X

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#55 trumb1mj1

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:12 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

My experience with club champion was that they put me into the best fit shaft - which happened to be a no-upcharge custom from the OEM. BUT then they told me that the way they build clubs is you buy the stock driver ($499) then the aftermarket shaft, because the OEM can't be trusted to build it custom ($200), then the grip ($15) then you pay them to put it all together ($100), plus $40 if you get the shaft pured, which you really should,, no credit for the fitting ($150), and voila, you've spent $1,000 on a driver you could order from a discounter for $350 (plus the $150 sunk in the fitting).

Can I get the shaft pull from the stock driver they buy? No. Can I bring them just a head and have them do the rest? Well, yes, but then we'd charge $100 for the adapter, and we have a special relationship with the OEM that gets us the tightest spec heads (sure you do...), so if you went this route, it wouldn't be as good as the club you were fit for.

I don't blame them. In the end, they were truely upselling THEIR service/capabilities. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for what they did. But I'm happy with how it went. The $150 I spent (plus $350 at discount dan's) got me the best driver I have ever had in my bag - and one I never would have considered off the rack. Worth every penny.

This.  I was able to get my shaft pull after some whining.  The worst part is, you can find those pulls for resale...

Edited by trumb1mj1, 19 June 2017 - 12:14 PM.

TM '16 M2 10.5*  ---------------   Diamana S+ 62g
Titleist 917 F2 15* --------------   Fujikura Speeder Evolution 757  
Titleist 816 H1 19* --------------- Kuro Kage 80g
Srixon 565 4-5i   -------------------   Modus3 Tour 120S
Srixon 765 6-PW  --------------- Modus3 Tour 120S
RTX 2.0 50, 54, 60* 2 dot   ------  Modus3 Tour 120S
Odyssey 2-ball pro

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#56 BB28403

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 03:58 PM

View Posttrumb1mj1, on 19 June 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 04 June 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

My experience with club champion was that they put me into the best fit shaft - which happened to be a no-upcharge custom from the OEM. BUT then they told me that the way they build clubs is you buy the stock driver ($499) then the aftermarket shaft, because the OEM can't be trusted to build it custom ($200), then the grip ($15) then you pay them to put it all together ($100), plus $40 if you get the shaft pured, which you really should,, no credit for the fitting ($150), and voila, you've spent $1,000 on a driver you could order from a discounter for $350 (plus the $150 sunk in the fitting).

Can I get the shaft pull from the stock driver they buy? No. Can I bring them just a head and have them do the rest? Well, yes, but then we'd charge $100 for the adapter, and we have a special relationship with the OEM that gets us the tightest spec heads (sure you do...), so if you went this route, it wouldn't be as good as the club you were fit for.

I don't blame them. In the end, they were truely upselling THEIR service/capabilities. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for what they did. But I'm happy with how it went. The $150 I spent (plus $350 at discount dan's) got me the best driver I have ever had in my bag - and one I never would have considered off the rack. Worth every penny.

This.  I was able to get my shaft pull after some whining.  The worst part is, you can find those pulls for resale...

It's "Value Added No Service"
They figure everyone that is "anyone" needs that "psychological stroking" for their golf game.  I even admit that I need it.  It really helps to bounce your thoughts off someone.  But in the end you are just setting yourself up to be robbed by these guys.  
My idea is this:  if you take up golf and tinker like a true WRXer, then you need to be assigned a Designated Wallet Watcher.  And you are also their DWW also.  You and your DWW discuss everything golf.  Go to the stores together .  Then when some Dufus is trying to seperate you from your money.  DWW steps in "Whoa Whoa Whoa!  Forget this buddy! Let's get beers and hit 18!  Save some cash!"  
Phew thanks DWW!

26

#57 Kenny Lee Puckett

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 04:47 PM

sorry, but I'm going to vehemently oppose quite a few posts on this thread. as someone who actual does the selling and knows the business, you are not going to get systematically upsold at large retailers. there is nothing nefarious going on, it's all about sales volume, not focused on margin. if you are visualizing constant recommendations/sales of only the "most expensive" gear, that is not the norm. to be candid, those kinds of sales are an anomaly (and the reason they are is the customer usually makes decisions with their wallet first).
https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be  video on course practice 5/2016

Ping G LST: PING Tour 80
Ping Anser 4wd: Accra S3-80 RT
PXG 0317 Hybrid: Fujikura 8D07HB

Ping iBlade 4-PW: Dynamic Gold Tour Issue
Ping Glide  2.0  50/54/58 SS: DG Tour Issue
Ping Anser F Ti pixel

Ping 703 +3 wraps/Pingman putter grip
Ping Sensor glove/Srixon 2017 Z-Star XV
Ping Hoofer 2016 bag

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#58 hardcaliber

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:25 PM

View PostKenny Lee Puckett, on 24 June 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

sorry, but I'm going to vehemently oppose quite a few posts on this thread. as someone who actual does the selling and knows the business, you are not going to get systematically upsold at large retailers. there is nothing nefarious going on, it's all about sales volume, not focused on margin. if you are visualizing constant recommendations/sales of only the "most expensive" gear, that is not the norm. to be candid, those kinds of sales are an anomaly (and the reason they are is the customer usually makes decisions with their wallet first).

Just curious, what segment of the market is your sales experience in?  I can see the focus on volume applying to the mainstream portion of the market, but the type of fitters that a lot of the people here are bitching about are pushing PXG, Miura, Accra, and the like.  It certainly would seem like there has to be a much higher margin on Miura vs. something like Taylormade or even Mizuno.  I don't have any behind the scenes knowledge, so maybe you know something I don't.

Funniest sales pitch I got from a fitter was that I should pay for a high end japanese forging because it is made from harder steel, which means the grooves will never wear and they will last much longer than something from Callaway, Mizuno, etc.  Bwahahaha.  If anything, it should be the opposite.  Softer steel=high quality.  Reminded me of a Cutco sales pitch or something.  This is from a fitter that is extremely highly regarded as one of the best in my city according to this forum.

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#59 Kenny Lee Puckett

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:29 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 24 June 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

View PostKenny Lee Puckett, on 24 June 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

as someone who actual does the selling and knows the business, you are not going to get systematically upsold at large retailers.
Just curious, what segment of the market is your sales experience in?

Funniest sales pitch I got from a fitter was that I should pay for a high end japanese forging because it is made from harder steel, which means the grooves will never wear and they will last much longer than something from Callaway, Mizuno, etc.  Bwahahaha.  If anything, it should be the opposite.  Softer steel=high quality.
answer to your first question highlighted above...

edit: and as a response to your fitter story, here's a picture of a high end japenese forging. they ain't harder 17-4 steel, they're all soft mild carbon. and none of them (relatively speaking) are made to last or ultimately wear very well, lol.
Posted Image

Edited by Kenny Lee Puckett, 24 June 2017 - 10:31 PM.

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be  video on course practice 5/2016

Ping G LST: PING Tour 80
Ping Anser 4wd: Accra S3-80 RT
PXG 0317 Hybrid: Fujikura 8D07HB

Ping iBlade 4-PW: Dynamic Gold Tour Issue
Ping Glide  2.0  50/54/58 SS: DG Tour Issue
Ping Anser F Ti pixel

Ping 703 +3 wraps/Pingman putter grip
Ping Sensor glove/Srixon 2017 Z-Star XV
Ping Hoofer 2016 bag

29

#60 BB28403

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:36 PM

View PostKenny Lee Puckett, on 24 June 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

View Posthardcaliber, on 24 June 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

View PostKenny Lee Puckett, on 24 June 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

as someone who actual does the selling and knows the business, you are not going to get systematically upsold at large retailers.
Just curious, what segment of the market is your sales experience in?

Funniest sales pitch I got from a fitter was that I should pay for a high end japanese forging because it is made from harder steel, which means the grooves will never wear and they will last much longer than something from Callaway, Mizuno, etc.  Bwahahaha.  If anything, it should be the opposite.  Softer steel=high quality.
answer to your first question highlighted above...

edit: and as a response to your fitter story, here's a picture of a high end japenese forging. they ain't harder 17-4 steel, they're all soft mild carbon. and none of them (relatively speaking) are made to last or ultimately wear very well, lol.
Posted Image

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