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Would a Fitter try to "Sell" you?


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#1 BB28403

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:03 AM

Wondering if a Fitter might try to steer a player (during a fitting) toward a driver or set of clubs with the highest profit margin?


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#2 TPG1971

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:07 AM

Big Box store, expect it. Club Fitter by trade, I would think not, and if they do steer clear.
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#3 blazman11

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:08 AM

There is a store in Rochester NY that does. Supposedly a top 100 fitter too which is a joke.

I've never been to a club champion or cool clubs so I can't speak for them. In my experience, fittings at a DSG or a bigger, local golf shop are more sales demos. I've had a great experience with smaller outfits who seem more concerned about return business and getting you in the proper gear.

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#4 VNutz

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:12 AM

Every industry tries to upsell into the higher priced item, it makes sense for their business. Know your budget and communicate that to your fitter. If he tries to sell you into something higher priced make sure the numbers support it.

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#5 Lord Helmet

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM

Im sure they do.  Same as real estate - all those HGTV shows I have to endure while the wife watches...

Buyer:  Our budget is $300k

Realtor:  Shows them a house priced at $325k

Edited by Lord Helmet, 01 June 2017 - 10:18 AM.

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#6 Liquid_A_45

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:26 AM

View PostLord Helmet, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Im sure they do.  Same as real estate - all those HGTV shows I have to endure while the wife watches...

Buyer:  Our budget is $300k

Realtor:  Shows them a house priced at $325k

But to be fair,  usually the house the buyers want based on their must haves is out of their budget. There's houses in their budget or houses with their "must haves" hardly ever do the two align lol.

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#7 Bad9

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:12 PM

View PostLiquid_A_45, on 01 June 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

View PostLord Helmet, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Im sure they do.  Same as real estate - all those HGTV shows I have to endure while the wife watches...

Buyer:  Our budget is $300k

Realtor:  Shows them a house priced at $325k

But to be fair,  usually the house the buyers want based on their must haves is out of their budget. There's houses in their budget or houses with their "must haves" hardly ever do the two align lol.

There's always a formula to those shows; Option 1 is cheaper, well located but needs work, Option 2 is in better shape, on budget but doesn't have quite everything, Option 3 is over budget, has more than what they asked for but is "Look what you can have by extending your budget a little". Option 3 is like Matt Ginella's golf course reviews.

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#8 GoIrish17

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:25 PM

View Postblazman11, on 01 June 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is a store in Rochester NY that does. Supposedly a top 100 fitter too which is a joke.

I've never been to a club champion or cool clubs so I can't speak for them. In my experience, fittings at a DSG or a bigger, local golf shop are more sales demos. I've had a great experience with smaller outfits who seem more concerned about return business and getting you in the proper gear.

Is "Top 100 Fitter" a title earned or bought? I've experienced "Top 100" fitters that I have a hard time believing are in the top 10,000.

Is it kind of like the rib cook-off festivals? Where the rib vendors all have a ridiculous amount of trophies on display that are enormous, until you get up close and realize that the 12 foot tall multi-tiered shiny trophy was for third place in burnt ends at the Bumblefart County Fair. I swear most of those trophies were given to the rib cooker by him/herself.
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#9 farmer

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:25 PM

Of course they do.  Go try and buy a stripped down, basic car.  If the dealer even has one, it will be the last one they show you.

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#10 TheGeekGolfer

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:33 PM

Yes, just about everyone in any retail situation is trying to "sell" you.


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#11 timmy8151

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...
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#12 Augster

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:01 PM

Of course. If you are fit into two sets of clubs, and either works just fine for your swing, of course they will try to get you to buy the set with higher profit margins.

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#13 hardcaliber

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:05 PM

Try to approach it as two separate issues, fitting and buying. During fitting you should try as much stuff as time and energy allow. Listen to the fitter with a critical mind. They have a lot of knowledge but are probably also trying to sell you stuff as well, so take it with a grain of salt. After the fitting, take their recs and shop around. Look at eBay, bst, etc. Research poor mans alternatives to high end shafts and see if the price difference is worth it to you.

If you want to buy from the fitter because they earned your business through great service or if they offer a good deal, then that's great. But don't feel obligated. You are paying for their time and have no obligation beyond that.

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#14 brkuck

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:17 PM

They do.  But as long as you stick to your budget and compare everything head to head, you will be fine.  If something that is more expensive seems worth it and the numbers back it, go for it as long as you are comfortable.  But also be smart.  If the fitter seems like they are just full of BS and they are trying to drive home one company/product, go somewhere else.

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#15 STPBMW

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:13 PM

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

This. Fitter was set on me buying a raijin shaft for over $400. He even busted out these lines "this shaft is brand new, you will be the only one in your foursome playing this." And "What is really comes down to is it worth it to you to pay extra for some more yards."

My guy was 100% sales. He also was dead set of making no shaft work with my current m2 or GBB. Only the epic. will never get fitted again, it's more fun to tinker anyway.

Edited by STPBMW, 01 June 2017 - 06:15 PM.


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#16 sofc

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:44 PM

Did a putter fitting and he adjusted a couple of putters I brought with me.  After he saw I putted well with the adjusted ones, he didn't try to sell me anything.  He even worked on a few irons shots and said "you might need a stiffer shaft in a few months so come back then."   I was actually interested in a new putter but he persuaded me to stick to the one I was using as it was working fine.  

Did a full iron fitting with a different guy and I liked the Mizuno (which I had and wanted to upgrade) and the Miuras (which felt great and  I was hitting them dead center.)  Younger kid and he fitted me for the AP1s, which felt okay but not as good as the Miuras.  He either thought he could sell me the Titleist easier or he thought I wouldn't spend money on the Miuras.  In retrospect, I should have taken the extra hour drive and gone to the guy I did the putter fitting with.  I think he would have been better.
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#17 hardcaliber

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 07:01 PM

View PostSTPBMW, on 01 June 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

This. Fitter was set on me buying a raijin shaft for over $400. He even busted out these lines "this shaft is brand new, you will be the only one in your foursome playing this." And "What is really comes down to is it worth it to you to pay extra for some more yards."

My guy was 100% sales. He also was dead set of making no shaft work with my current m2 or GBB. Only the epic. will never get fitted again, it's more fun to tinker anyway.

Similar to my experience unfortunately.  I think there is value to fitting for sure,  but at the end of the day most of these guys are basically high end retailers.  I think that the use of the word "fitter" somehow kind of makes people expect these guys to act like coaches trying to teach you or something, rather than retailers trying to sell you stuff.

Again, i think there is value to paying a fitter for their time, equipment, and expertise, but I think its wise to treat any potential purchase as a totally separate transaction.

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#18 Judge Smales

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:44 PM

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

+$3000

They got me on the Accra shafts hook, line, and sinker. Will never return.

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#19 BB28403

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:58 AM

View PostJudge Smales, on 01 June 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

View Posttimmy8151, on 01 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yup.. went to a fitting at Club Champion and it seems like they were pushing a lot of high dollar aftermarket shafts (i.e. Oban, Accra, etc).  Was funny how they never had me hit any of the OEM no upcharge shafts until I asked ...

+$3000

They got me on the Accra shafts hook, line, and sinker. Will never return.

Wow.  I am sorry.  I just deduced this might be a problem.  I didn't realize it was systemic.

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#20 dan360

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:20 AM

I haven't had an experience where they were trying to sell me on something as much as trying to find something that was better to fit me.

Usually it was shafts.    Driver/FW specifically.  

I'm pretty closed minded when it comes to brands I even look at so there's that.

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#21 p3ga

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:57 AM

Absolutely they will steer you. 24/7, eight days per week. Could be pure profit, how well they get along with the reps, any number of factors.
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#22 SnowBound Golfer

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 05:49 AM

If it was your business and you depended on sales to put food on the table, wouldn't you push the higher margin product? That is how most, if not all business' work. I would however, run from the guy that keeps pushing more expensive product after you ask to stay within a certain budget.

Would you like fries with that?

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#23 phatchrisrules

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 08:42 AM

I'll chime in from the other side of the table, as a fitter.  Maybe I am the lone dissenter here but I really do try and find something that is going to work for someone on a budget, if they request it.  Getting a proper fitting requires open lines of communication.  If you come in and just start pounding balls and just blindly hit what is given to you and then the total is, say $1000, for a set of irons, or $500 for a driver, and your budget was $700 or $350, you're going to be annoyed and think the guy is a rip-off artist.  My usual script involves talking about price immediately after discovering the person's reasons for being there that day.  Most people are pretty wishy-washy when it comes to price "not something that is going to break the bank,", so I always stop them right there and ask point blank "humour me and pretend you are walking out the door with something today, what is a price you are comfortable spending?"  That usually gets me a pretty clear cut answer on what they want to spend.  If the person still is open ended and legitimately doesn't care as long it works, then I tend to jump right over the sale stuff (like Aeroburner, XR, F6, etc.) and go straight for current line stuff.  It makes it easier on both of us as well, because just in case I make a combination in the fitting cart that works really well, I might not have it on the floor and I can easily just special order it in.  However, if I have a combination that I have told is going to work in a sale club and I don't have it, I either have to back track and explain why combination B is going to work okay, or explain that the difference in loft and shaft is close but not ideal, but they'd be okay with it anyways.

I do agree that many high-end fitting studios really push the supercharged, upgraded shafts.  I have two of them within an hour's drive of my store and I have lost count of the amount of people coming in saying they got fit for some supercharged Graphite Design, Accra, or mega exotic steel shaft that 1 in 100,000 has never head of (Shimada, for example).  Then when I get them on the monitor because they are unhappy with it (more likely buyer's remorse) it makes no difference to them, and often times, they hit a stock club better.  I actually had an interview at one of these places when it first opened up late last year and when I asked what one of the goals of the place was, the hiring manager flat out told me that after providing top notch customer service, part of my job was going to be explaining to people why this $400+ shaft is going to really make a difference to their game versus a stock offering.  Sure, it might, but chances are it won't.  I didn't get the job because he probably saw my eyebrow raise a little bit at that.

So, to end this novel I've just typed, a fitter is absolutely in the business to sell you something.  You are out of it if you think we are there to keep re-fitting your mid-1990s Hogan blades to help you hit it better and better.  We have to keep the lights on and feed our families too.  I always tell people they are under no obligation to buy anything from me, it is absolutely a recommendation of an ideal.  Then I walk them through the differences between what they were doing versus what they are doing now and emphasize the positives, which are usually universal if they are coming from a 10+ year old set.  Using this approach I sell the vast majority of product I recommend, maybe it's because I never push an upsell, maybe because I make the right choices subconsciously because I have been doing this for so long, or maybe it's because they are going to buy no matter how little the improvement is, I'll never know.  But let it be known that not all fitters are there to pump out $500 Epics with a $400 shaft upgrade and a $100 Pureing and grip package.  There are some of us who believe that most after market shafts are just non-sense and a "stock" shaft in most cases is going to work the same, if not better.
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#24 justincredible04

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

If you are a knowledgeable consumer then it would be hard pressed to sell you anything. Especially if you know what you want. I've never felt pressured at any fitter, but I have seen ignorant fitters unaware exactly of the needs of a certain player. In my area, I have only met one other instructor that was aware what an ad di is and because of popularity I don't consider that too exotic. He was also knowledgeable enough to know it can be considered overrated relative to the price.

I'm willing to pay more for expert opinions because I'm at a more comfortable price point. 5 years ago, I would've had to go off of what a fitter told me.

Do you homework and don't feel obligated to buy anything.

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#25 CrushSticks

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:48 AM

View PostGoIrish17, on 01 June 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

View Postblazman11, on 01 June 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is a store in Rochester NY that does. Supposedly a top 100 fitter too which is a joke.

I've never been to a club champion or cool clubs so I can't speak for them. In my experience, fittings at a DSG or a bigger, local golf shop are more sales demos. I've had a great experience with smaller outfits who seem more concerned about return business and getting you in the proper gear.

Is "Top 100 Fitter" a title earned or bought? I've experienced "Top 100" fitters that I have a hard time believing are in the top 10,000.

Is it kind of like the rib cook-off festivals? Where the rib vendors all have a ridiculous amount of trophies on display that are enormous, until you get up close and realize that the 12 foot tall multi-tiered shiny trophy was for third place in burnt ends at the Bumblefart County Fair. I swear most of those trophies were given to the rib cooker by him/herself.

third place in burnt ends at the Bumblefart County Fair. Might be the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

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#26 dwboston

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:49 AM

View PostBad9, on 01 June 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

View PostLiquid_A_45, on 01 June 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

View PostLord Helmet, on 01 June 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Im sure they do.  Same as real estate - all those HGTV shows I have to endure while the wife watches...

Buyer:  Our budget is $300k

Realtor:  Shows them a house priced at $325k

But to be fair,  usually the house the buyers want based on their must haves is out of their budget. There's houses in their budget or houses with their "must haves" hardly ever do the two align lol.

There's always a formula to those shows; Option 1 is cheaper, well located but needs work, Option 2 is in better shape, on budget but doesn't have quite everything, Option 3 is over budget, has more than what they asked for but is "Look what you can have by extending your budget a little". Option 3 is like Matt Ginella's golf course reviews.

You guys realize those shows are fake, right?  They're filmed months after the buyers have already bought their house - that's how they find participants, from recent home sales.  The producers then find two comp houses and go film a show.  A guy from work was on one of the HGTV shows.  He and his wife bought a house, then were contacted two months later about filming an episode.  He was even yelled at for veering off-script with some comments he made about the houses they walked though.
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#27 SnowBound Golfer

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:17 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 02 June 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

I'll chime in from the other side of the table, as a fitter.  Maybe I am the lone dissenter here but I really do try and find something that is going to work for someone on a budget, if they request it.  Getting a proper fitting requires open lines of communication.  If you come in and just start pounding balls and just blindly hit what is given to you and then the total is, say $1000, for a set of irons, or $500 for a driver, and your budget was $700 or $350, you're going to be annoyed and think the guy is a rip-off artist.  My usual script involves talking about price immediately after discovering the person's reasons for being there that day.  Most people are pretty wishy-washy when it comes to price "not something that is going to break the bank,", so I always stop them right there and ask point blank "humour me and pretend you are walking out the door with something today, what is a price you are comfortable spending?"  That usually gets me a pretty clear cut answer on what they want to spend.  If the person still is open ended and legitimately doesn't care as long it works, then I tend to jump right over the sale stuff (like Aeroburner, XR, F6, etc.) and go straight for current line stuff.  It makes it easier on both of us as well, because just in case I make a combination in the fitting cart that works really well, I might not have it on the floor and I can easily just special order it in.  However, if I have a combination that I have told is going to work in a sale club and I don't have it, I either have to back track and explain why combination B is going to work okay, or explain that the difference in loft and shaft is close but not ideal, but they'd be okay with it anyways.

I do agree that many high-end fitting studios really push the supercharged, upgraded shafts.  I have two of them within an hour's drive of my store and I have lost count of the amount of people coming in saying they got fit for some supercharged Graphite Design, Accra, or mega exotic steel shaft that 1 in 100,000 has never head of (Shimada, for example).  Then when I get them on the monitor because they are unhappy with it (more likely buyer's remorse) it makes no difference to them, and often times, they hit a stock club better.  I actually had an interview at one of these places when it first opened up late last year and when I asked what one of the goals of the place was, the hiring manager flat out told me that after providing top notch customer service, part of my job was going to be explaining to people why this $400+ shaft is going to really make a difference to their game versus a stock offering.  Sure, it might, but chances are it won't.  I didn't get the job because he probably saw my eyebrow raise a little bit at that.

So, to end this novel I've just typed, a fitter is absolutely in the business to sell you something.  You are out of it if you think we are there to keep re-fitting your mid-1990s Hogan blades to help you hit it better and better.  We have to keep the lights on and feed our families too.  I always tell people they are under no obligation to buy anything from me, it is absolutely a recommendation of an ideal.  Then I walk them through the differences between what they were doing versus what they are doing now and emphasize the positives, which are usually universal if they are coming from a 10+ year old set.  Using this approach I sell the vast majority of product I recommend, maybe it's because I never push an upsell, maybe because I make the right choices subconsciously because I have been doing this for so long, or maybe it's because they are going to buy no matter how little the improvement is, I'll never know.  But let it be known that not all fitters are there to pump out $500 Epics with a $400 shaft upgrade and a $100 Pureing and grip package.  There are some of us who believe that most after market shafts are just non-sense and a "stock" shaft in most cases is going to work the same, if not better.
Great comment.
Could it be that some buyers come in expecting a great fitting but only want to pay the price of clearance items at the big box store? When you give them a quote, they get mad at the cost and feel they are getting ripped off? I agree that budgets should be discussed up front, in order to not waste anyone's time.

27

#28 timmy8151

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:42 PM

View PostSnowBound Golfer, on 02 June 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 02 June 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

I'll chime in from the other side of the table, as a fitter.  Maybe I am the lone dissenter here but I really do try and find something that is going to work for someone on a budget, if they request it.  Getting a proper fitting requires open lines of communication.  If you come in and just start pounding balls and just blindly hit what is given to you and then the total is, say $1000, for a set of irons, or $500 for a driver, and your budget was $700 or $350, you're going to be annoyed and think the guy is a rip-off artist.  My usual script involves talking about price immediately after discovering the person's reasons for being there that day.  Most people are pretty wishy-washy when it comes to price "not something that is going to break the bank,", so I always stop them right there and ask point blank "humour me and pretend you are walking out the door with something today, what is a price you are comfortable spending?"  That usually gets me a pretty clear cut answer on what they want to spend.  If the person still is open ended and legitimately doesn't care as long it works, then I tend to jump right over the sale stuff (like Aeroburner, XR, F6, etc.) and go straight for current line stuff.  It makes it easier on both of us as well, because just in case I make a combination in the fitting cart that works really well, I might not have it on the floor and I can easily just special order it in.  However, if I have a combination that I have told is going to work in a sale club and I don't have it, I either have to back track and explain why combination B is going to work okay, or explain that the difference in loft and shaft is close but not ideal, but they'd be okay with it anyways.

I do agree that many high-end fitting studios really push the supercharged, upgraded shafts.  I have two of them within an hour's drive of my store and I have lost count of the amount of people coming in saying they got fit for some supercharged Graphite Design, Accra, or mega exotic steel shaft that 1 in 100,000 has never head of (Shimada, for example).  Then when I get them on the monitor because they are unhappy with it (more likely buyer's remorse) it makes no difference to them, and often times, they hit a stock club better.  I actually had an interview at one of these places when it first opened up late last year and when I asked what one of the goals of the place was, the hiring manager flat out told me that after providing top notch customer service, part of my job was going to be explaining to people why this $400+ shaft is going to really make a difference to their game versus a stock offering.  Sure, it might, but chances are it won't.  I didn't get the job because he probably saw my eyebrow raise a little bit at that.

So, to end this novel I've just typed, a fitter is absolutely in the business to sell you something.  You are out of it if you think we are there to keep re-fitting your mid-1990s Hogan blades to help you hit it better and better.  We have to keep the lights on and feed our families too.  I always tell people they are under no obligation to buy anything from me, it is absolutely a recommendation of an ideal.  Then I walk them through the differences between what they were doing versus what they are doing now and emphasize the positives, which are usually universal if they are coming from a 10+ year old set.  Using this approach I sell the vast majority of product I recommend, maybe it's because I never push an upsell, maybe because I make the right choices subconsciously because I have been doing this for so long, or maybe it's because they are going to buy no matter how little the improvement is, I'll never know.  But let it be known that not all fitters are there to pump out $500 Epics with a $400 shaft upgrade and a $100 Pureing and grip package.  There are some of us who believe that most after market shafts are just non-sense and a "stock" shaft in most cases is going to work the same, if not better.
Great comment.
Could it be that some buyers come in expecting a great fitting but only want to pay the price of clearance items at the big box store? When you give them a quote, they get mad at the cost and feel they are getting ripped off? I agree that budgets should be discussed up front, in order to not waste anyone's time.

I'll admit as much I research stuff on here before buying anything, I went into my fitting at Club Champion naively as this was my first fitting.  While we discussed goals of the fitting during the pre-interview, I probably should have given a budget to my fitter before we had started.  Also, during the fitting I just let my fitter provide me with club/shaft combinations and could have mentioned more budget/OEM offered options instead of the exotics.  I understand CC's goal is to make money and that the fitters are commissioned based so they are trying to upsell.  With that said though, I really enjoyed the fitting and thought my fitter was knowledgeable.  I just wasn't prepared for the $3,000 quote at the end of the fitting...
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#29 mmoran

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:05 PM

I'm willing to bet a $3000 quote at CC brings their average down considerably.  Mine full bag quote was $5100 using my current driver head.  So add $500 for the SZ he was pushing.

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#30 timmy8151

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:35 PM

View Postmmoran, on 02 June 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'm willing to bet a $3000 quote at CC brings their average down considerably.  Mine full bag quote was $5100 using my current driver head.  So add $500 for the SZ he was pushing.

Should have noted that my quote was only for: 1) Putter 2) Irons 3) 3 Wood 4) Driver shaft.

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