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Callaway Chrome Soft Truvis Balls are not balanced!!


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#61 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:53 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 05 June 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

This whole discussion reminds me of the cranky old "clubfitter" guys who want you to bring your brand-new Titleist or Callaway irons in to "check the frequencies" on their meter. They'll show you how they may be marked "S" but some of them have higher frequencies than X-flex hard-stepped and others are almost as low as Senior. That's why you ought to have bought some frequency matched, spined, PURE'd, custom blueprinted Hireko irons from them instead.


I'm no crusty old clubfitter, but I've seen what you describe with my own two eyes. A few years back a friend had a TM driver with the stock Stiff flex shaft in it. Couldn't hit it to save his life and after several rounds with it not performing he almost tossed it. We had a demo day and a local club-builder with a mobile shop was there. My friend asked him about his experience with the club and the builder said bring it to me.

He put it on the frequency machine and it came out at a soft senior flex. The builder offered to swap it out with one he knew was a Stiff flex and my friend accepted. He took it to the range and starting hitting it well. It was a whole new driver.

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#62 tbowles411

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 02:19 PM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 05 June 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 05 June 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

This whole discussion reminds me of the cranky old "clubfitter" guys who want you to bring your brand-new Titleist or Callaway irons in to "check the frequencies" on their meter. They'll show you how they may be marked "S" but some of them have higher frequencies than X-flex hard-stepped and others are almost as low as Senior. That's why you ought to have bought some frequency matched, spined, PURE'd, custom blueprinted Hireko irons from them instead.


I'm no crusty old clubfitter, but I've seen what you describe with my own two eyes. A few years back a friend had a TM driver with the stock Stiff flex shaft in it. Couldn't hit it to save his life and after several rounds with it not performing he almost tossed it. We had a demo day and a local club-builder with a mobile shop was there. My friend asked him about his experience with the club and the builder said bring it to me.

He put it on the frequency machine and it came out at a soft senior flex. The builder offered to swap it out with one he knew was a Stiff flex and my friend accepted. He took it to the range and starting hitting it well. It was a whole new driver.
It happens more than you realize.  We measure each frequency before we build so we verify what a company sends us before we start.  We usually order a specific CPM so we know it's going to be as close to right as possible.  Then we will PURE them to take more of the variation out.
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#63 IHFN

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:19 PM

I'm not sure how many other pro's besides Bryson do this, but it's interesting to say the least.  I've done some testing with putts and based on orientation it appears there is a slight bias to where you put the balance point.  I know there are video's with Rife where he discusses similar biases based on his testing with the new Evnroll grooves.  He said the ball can have just as much of a impact as the grooves do.  

I will say since I've started doing this, I have putted better, but who knows if it's based on this.  I did another dozen of ProV1's tonight and 6 were balanced.  It took 10 minutes to do a dozen so it's not like I'm wasting away my life doing this test.

If you think it's impossible for it to make a difference, that's fine and that's your opinion.  Nothing I say will convince you otherwise.  I just want to provide information for people that may want to try this and see what they get.  It's obvious and undeniable there is a difference to the balls based on the balance point in the salt water.  The question is whether that does anything to ball flight or ball roll.

The tests the USGA did on golf balls was based on the seam of the ball.  I'm not sure if they've done any testing in regards to something like this.
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#64 fusionvic

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:16 PM

Has anyone tested a balanced golf ball vs unbalanced on a Trackman to see if there's any delta on spin, carry, etc??
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#65 DLiver

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

FYI, you need to slice balls perfectly in half in order for the cores to appear to be centered. Any angle in the cut, and anything less than a perfectly straight cut will make the core appear off center.

Please resume tilting at windmills :happy:


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#66 Uhit

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:24 PM

View PostDLiver, on 01 April 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

FYI, you need to slice balls perfectly in half in order for the cores to appear to be centered. Any angle in the cut, and anything less than a perfectly straight cut will make the core appear off center.

Please resume tilting at windmills :happy:

I see windmills flooded by the sea...

...because if you let the balls float in a nearly saturated salt water solution...

...you don`t need to cut them in half to see whether they are unbalanced or not.


btw

I have cut several balls from different manufacturers in half, and some are nearly perfect centered, and some are not,
and that is less depending from the way I cut it, than the way they were manufactured.

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#67 GSDriver

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:17 PM

I see sales of those golf ball COG finders making a comeback ,,, I remember the kids when they were little bought me one for Father's Day.  We ran same ball through it a few times, never agreed with previous 'center' once.

I hit golf balls, I don't cut them apart...Golf Digest does that for me every couple of years :-)
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#68 MadGolfer76

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:35 PM

Would the center have become displaced due to the pressure from the cutting process?
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#69 Uhit

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 02:08 AM

View PostGSDriver, on 02 April 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

I see sales of those golf ball COG finders making a comeback ,,, I remember the kids when they were little bought me one for Father's Day.  We ran same ball through it a few times, never agreed with previous 'center' once.

I hit golf balls, I don't cut them apart...Golf Digest does that for me every couple of years :-)

I think it is pretty obvious, that a multi layer ball, where the layer thickness varies, behaves differently depending on where you hit it...
...in addition to the disadvantage of a decentered center of gravity - similar to a mud ball.

Someone who doesn't like balls with a big seam, has no reason to like decentered balls...
...especially at a premium price point.

btw, I own no COG finder, because salt and water is more effective for this task.

Edited by Uhit, 03 April 2018 - 02:11 AM.


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#70 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:01 AM

View PostDLiver, on 01 April 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

FYI, you need to slice balls perfectly in half in order for the cores to appear to be centered. Any angle in the cut, and anything less than a perfectly straight cut will make the core appear off center.

Please resume tilting at windmills :happy:

thats now how any of this works

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#71 Snowman9000

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:14 AM

Most of you must be too young to have read the Dave Pelz Putting Bible?  If I'm not mistaken, he devoted some space to this.  He tested the effect of an unbalanced ball on how it tracked on a putt.

A quick search gave me this, which includes a short summary of Pelz's thoughts.
http://clubmaker-onl...m/article_1.htm

Pelz has also tested the effect of hitting on the edge of a dimple.  It matters too.  Where we want to stop worrying about these things is a personal decision.

I would also point out a fairly obvious possibility that some percentage of tour pros only get or only deploy balls that have been found to be balanced.  If so, then they can pull one out of the bag, mark and play it, as observed.  Doing that does not mean they don't already know they are balanced. I'd bet a hundred bucks that Bryson D is not the only one who makes sure to used balanced golf balls.

Edited by Snowman9000, 03 April 2018 - 09:23 AM.


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#72 Hat Trick

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:34 PM

I don't know much about this issue, but I know the balls today are better than the balls I played with 45, 35, 25, and 15 years ago (so are my clubs too).

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#73 broth518

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:47 PM

Callaway doesn't make all the parts of their golf ball thus the QA is compromised. Only Titleist, Bridgestone and Srixon control all parts of their ball - choose wisely!

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#74 Break81

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:34 PM

View Postbroth518, on 15 April 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

Callaway doesn't make all the parts of their golf ball thus the QA is compromised. Only Titleist, Bridgestone and Srixon control all parts of their ball - choose wisely!
    I have had my best rounds with Callaway and Srixon.  Could be a fluke but any small imperfections are dwarfed by the imperfections in my swing. :)

Edited by Break81, 15 April 2018 - 11:29 PM.

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#75 dan360

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:15 PM

Well, now I know whose pie to plant a hair on the night before the tournament.

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#76 Millbrook

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:24 AM

Those of you who are doing the salt test have it wrong. Use Epsom salt not table salt.
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#77 QuigleyDU

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:55 AM

my question is, if the core of the ball is off center and biased to one side. (not that circles have sides, but you get my point) would you get better performance off the tee with the core closest the the impact side or further away, towards the target line?
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#78 bladehunter

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:10 PM

very interesting to me.....  The new chrome soft ball seems to "jump" off the putter for me.   wonder ho the hot balls test as far as balance ?   may have to dive into this myself
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#79 1Mordrid1

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:10 PM

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

View Postgolfdad907, on 30 May 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Holy too much time on your hands, is this thread real?  Assuming so, I guess you'll need to test every ball you buy, question is what's the retailer or OEM going to say when you try to return or exchange those that don't meet your epsom salt test.

Anyone remember those gadgets that would spin the ball to find the true CoG?  Never came back to same spot twice (yes, when my kids were little they bought me one for Fathers' Day, so had to humor them and try it)...maybe a new improved version is in the works.

The best outcome is that the hard-core people will identify which brands are the worst, causing them to lose marketshare and thus up their QC and the QC for the industry and then everyone reaps the benefits of the resulting increase in quality.

And the general public reaps the benefits of $60 per dozen balls??

No thanks. I will trust the USGA performance tests that declare the balls in a normal playability range.
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#80 SwingMan

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:50 PM

The sky is falling ... the sky is falling... the sky is falling...

"My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

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#81 Uhit

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:58 AM

View Postlobub, on 24 May 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

I did not find any other topics on this so here it goes...

I've been following @golf_ball_guts on instagram and he recently posted photos and video of him slicing a chrome soft truvis in half and discovering that the core was significantly off center.
I wanted to post my own findings after doing some of my own experiments for all the wrxers out there.
I  took one of my own used white/orange truvis chrome soft balls, cut it in half and discovered that it, too, had a significantly off center core. See pic below.

This prompted me to do the epsom salt test on two other chrome soft balls I have (these were found on my local course and did not come from the same package) and found that they were not balanced, ie, the same spot on the golf ball kept rising to the top indicating one side of the ball is lighter than the other.
I tested a ProV1 I have in the epsom salt bath for comparison and found that it was very well balanced.  

It's hard for me to imagine that the 3 balls I have and the ball that @golf_ball_guts cut are anomalies so I'm afraid Callaway may have a quality control issue going on here.
I also wonder if other models like Supersoft have this same issue.

Attachment chromesoft.jpg

I like opinions based on facts.

And hints, that are useful for the consumer...
...and open minded manufacturers.

However, not everyone likes open minded approaches...
...for whatever reason. :dntknw:

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#82 North Butte

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM

Between adjustable drivers that don't really change the loft, golf balls that are lumpy and unbalanced, shafts that are miles too long, iron lofts that are "jacked"...it's a wonder any of us can ever break 100. Makes you long for the good old days of hickory shafts and gutta-percha balls when the equipment made the game easier.
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#83 sprague1991

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:02 AM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 25 May 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Without knowing the affect of this minor imbalance, I can't be sure how "upset" I should be by this. If it's within allowable standards by Callaway then this would potentially mean even the pro's get a non perfect ball every now and then, and they all seem to score just fine.

Does it mean I get more/less side spin on a very well struck ball? I can see on putts how not being 100% balanced matters, but as stated, on our public muni greens that probably won't matter much.

Also OP can you measure how off the centricity is? I can obviously see just by inspection it's not perfect, but I am curious as to how much. Maybe somebody here who doesn't mind doing some investigation can start cutting and measuring a bunch of premium multi layer balls or something. Have to remember, this is commercial manufacturing where hundreds of thousands of balls are made. It's not highly constrained military grade equipment..
LOL After 4 years in the Marine corps i can tell you everything from the government is lowest bidder and when i hear military grade, I think of a POS that works when it wants to. This is an interesting topic though.

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#84 SwingMan

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:55 AM

Let's see, the OP probably slanders a major OEM, but  you leave this topic here and delete the post, which basically warns you to delete the thread.

Is the OP an engineer, any professional qualification to make his claims?

Probably not - so delete the thread if you are not going to invite an expert to comment.

Talk about a lack of credibility - get some knowledge in here.

Edited by SwingMan, 25 April 2018 - 10:56 AM.

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#85 brew4eagle

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:10 AM

View PostGSDriver, on 02 April 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

I see sales of those golf ball COG finders making a comeback ,,, I remember the kids when they were little bought me one for Father's Day.  We ran same ball through it a few times, never agreed with previous 'center' once.

I hit golf balls, I don't cut them apart...Golf Digest does that for me every couple of years :-)
Wouldn't this be the expected observation for a very well-balanced ball?

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#86 Break81

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:35 PM

So many questions that probably change nothing for us hacks but , is the core a different weight than the mantle layer ? If not how much would it through off the balance of the mall truly ?  If the ball was cut perfectly in half along would one 1/2 weigh more than the other ? Part of me thinks these are all within tolerance and have such a little effect on anything is just water cooler talk at this point.
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#87 Uhit

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:22 PM

View PostBreak81, on 25 April 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

So many questions that probably change nothing for us hacks but , is the core a different weight than the mantle layer ? If not how much would it through off the balance of the mall truly ?  If the ball was cut perfectly in half along would one 1/2 weigh more than the other ? Part of me thinks these are all within tolerance and have such a little effect on anything is just water cooler talk at this point.

Concentric layers are not only important for the balance of the ball, but also, whether it behaves the same - no matter where you hit the ball.

If a layer has a varying thickness, you can be sure, that it also behaves differently - otherwise different layers (and layer thickness) would not work...

Edited by Uhit, 25 April 2018 - 03:27 PM.


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#88 Break81

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:16 PM

View PostUhit, on 25 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

View PostBreak81, on 25 April 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

So many questions that probably change nothing for us hacks but , is the core a different weight than the mantle layer ? If not how much would it through off the balance of the mall truly ?  If the ball was cut perfectly in half along would one 1/2 weigh more than the other ? Part of me thinks these are all within tolerance and have such a little effect on anything is just water cooler talk at this point.

Concentric layers are not only important for the balance of the ball, but also, whether it behaves the same - no matter where you hit the ball.

If a layer has a varying thickness, you can be sure, that it also behaves differently - otherwise different layers (and layer thickness) would not work...
I am not saying they don’t but to what degree ? What is acceptable industry standard to where a 10 foot putt is effected to go off line ? Just wondering if this whole thread is OMG let’s blame a ball when it’s just BS concerning any real performance variation
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#89 Big Ben

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:03 PM

It is an interesting topic and you would think one of the ball guys would've chimed in by now but crickets. Makes you think...

Edited by Big Ben, 25 April 2018 - 07:04 PM.

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#90 SwingMan

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:36 PM

View PostBig Ben, on 25 April 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

It is an interesting topic and you would think one of the ball guys would've chimed in by now but crickets. Makes you think...

... that they don't want to get into a pissing contest on a golf forum...

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