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Callaway Chrome Soft Truvis Balls are not balanced!!


100 replies to this topic

#31 mokedaddy

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:41 PM

So the new laws are physics, what were the old laws?  Did physics just change one day or did our understanding change because we could see it on a flight monitor?

And please site your source says Tiger does not believe in the laws of physics.

Edited by mokedaddy, 25 May 2017 - 02:43 PM.

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#32 SadTrombone

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:27 PM

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

So the new laws are physics, what were the old laws?  Did physics just change one day or did our understanding change because we could see it on a flight monitor?

And please site your source says Tiger does not believe in the laws of physics.

I didn't say he doesn't believe in the laws of physics. He still follows the "old" ballflight laws. Just google "tiger woods how to shape shots."  Has to be dozens of clinic videos where he discusses his philosophy..  Ernie Els even has it wrong in his book, but the book might be "old" itself.

As for our understanding changing thank you for supporting my point. Just because something is true doesn't mean people understand it right away. Just because this salt water thing has been around for 70 years doesn't mean people don't misunderstand it.

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#33 mokedaddy

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:29 PM

So the new ball flight laws are physics and he doesn't believe in them?  Seems pretty cut and dried to me that he doesn't believe in he laws of physics.  But hey you keep floating your golf balls and you'll be a pro in now time.

Btw Tiger has a trackman.

Edit:  I was only trying to save you guys some money.  If it helps you play your best please by all means do it.    I would be curious to see how many balls fail the test out of each dozen and how much it varies by manufacturer.

Edited by mokedaddy, 25 May 2017 - 04:08 PM.

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#34 BillyZ2

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:44 PM


I did my own saltwater in the vase test and found some surprising results. I used two brand new balls of each model and tested each one several times. Here's what I found:
*
Titlist  ProV1x = slight imbalance
Bridgestone E6 = balanced
Topflite Gamer = balanced
Topflite D2+ Distance  = balanced
Topflite XL Distance = balanced
* it didn't surprise me as I thought about it a little deeper with the Titleist being I think A5 piece golf ball and the Top Flight distance golf balls are two piece, and the Top Flite gamer I think is a three piece.
I couldn't believe how much salt water I had to use to get the golf ball to float on the surface, but eventually the test work with enough sea salt.

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#35 SadTrombone

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:50 PM

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

So the new ball flight laws are physics and he doesn't believe in them?  Seems pretty cut and dried to me that he doesn't believe in he laws of physics.  But hey you keep floating your golf balls and you'll be a pro in now time.

Btw Tiger has a trackman.

Edit:  I was only trying to save you guys some money.  If it helps you play your best please by all means do it.    I would be curious to see how many balls fail the test out of each dozen and how much it varies by manufacturer.

Oh I have no desire to go back to being a pro. I enjoy the amateur game too much. Been there, done that, lost too much money, gained too much weight.

But I think floating the balls could be a neat way to spend some time on a stormy day.

And I think your conclusion that tiger doesn't believe in the laws of physics may be a jump Evil Knevil couldn't make. But you'd have to ask him. I just don't think that "because A, then 7" is a logical place for you to start. But you have fun with that.


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#36 mokedaddy

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 05:12 PM

You drew the lines.  Those are all things you yourself said.  You can spin it how you want but facts are facts.  The wonderful thing about science is that it doesn't care if you believe or not it's still true
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#37 Break81

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:18 PM

So just did the float test with multiple brands (including the Ksig) and they all seem very similar as far as how long they would take to rotate from to the light spot. All were very very slow, so much to the point I could not image it would effect flight or a putt staying online or missing.

I only had 1 VICE Pro Plus (used) and 1 Snell Get Sum (used) and they may have been slightly faster to rotate than the rest. Maybe a ball that has been smashed into trees and cartpaths lose a little of it's roundness.... who knows.  Still I wouldn't think it would be enough to force a good put to miss.
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#38 spoonhead

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:35 PM

I thought the solution to the balance issue was that the density of the inner cores are now the same and if the center core is not centered, it would not change the balance because it has the same density of the other layers.

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#39 skraly

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 01:01 AM

View Postspoonhead, on 25 May 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

I thought the solution to the balance issue was that the density of the inner cores are now the same and if the center core is not centered, it would not change the balance because it has the same density of the other layers.
If the core and mantle are the same density, then balance would not be affected.  However,  the core and mantle layers supposedly have different hardnesses and rebound characteristics.  So if the core is closer to the outer layer/layers on one side due to it's being off center, then ball flight might be affected.  Probably most noticeable in the spin characteristics.  I doubt, unless the core is seriously off center, most amateurs have consistent enough ball striking to notice a difference.  A top level pro might though.  What ever inconsistencies there are, I am sure they are less then with wound, balata balls.  Many of those weren't even round.  Let alone balanced.  I used to carry a sizing template with me.  It was a square metal plate that had a 1.68" hole machined in it.  I routinely found that out of one dozen balls in a box, at least 2 or 3 wouldn't pass through in all orientations.   MacGregors and Spalding Dots were the worst.  But even Maxfli and Titleist had their share of duds.

Edited by skraly, 27 May 2017 - 01:08 AM.


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#40 BB28403

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 08:56 AM

Gotta blame something right? Might as well be an unbalanced ball.

My unbalanced clubs , hit the unbalanced ball, using my shaky hands.  Made a hole in one.  But still...


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#41 IHFN

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 10:24 PM

View PostIHFN, on 24 May 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

I did the salt test with a dozen of Chrome soft +'s and only one was truly round.  The rest had some sort of bias, but not terrible.  As long as you know where that bias is and it's not a huge one, there isn't much to worry about.  I'm going to do some other tests soon on other balls to see how they stack up.

I just did the test with a dozen of regular Pro V1's and only 2 were completely round.  One was really out.  It swung around to the balance point in the salt water.  I'm going to use it to do some tests and see if it's any different than the rest on things like putts.
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#42 BB28403

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 10:34 PM

Use it as skeet.  Pull!

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=FHgI8jVv5Dw

Can't believe this exists! Lol

Edited by BB28403, 27 May 2017 - 10:36 PM.


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#43 SadTrombone

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:21 PM

View PostIHFN, on 27 May 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

View PostIHFN, on 24 May 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

I did the salt test with a dozen of Chrome soft +'s and only one was truly round.  The rest had some sort of bias, but not terrible.  As long as you know where that bias is and it's not a huge one, there isn't much to worry about.  I'm going to do some other tests soon on other balls to see how they stack up.

I just did the test with a dozen of regular Pro V1's and only 2 were completely round.  One was really out.  It swung around to the balance point in the salt water.  I'm going to use it to do some tests and see if it's any different than the rest on things like putts.
Completely "round" or completely "balanced"?

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#44 golfdad907

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:35 PM

Holy too much time on your hands, is this thread real?  Assuming so, I guess you'll need to test every ball you buy, question is what's the retailer or OEM going to say when you try to return or exchange those that don't meet your epsom salt test.

Anyone remember those gadgets that would spin the ball to find the true CoG?  Never came back to same spot twice (yes, when my kids were little they bought me one for Fathers' Day, so had to humor them and try it)...maybe a new improved version is in the works.
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#45 SadTrombone

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

View Postgolfdad907, on 30 May 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Holy too much time on your hands, is this thread real?  Assuming so, I guess you'll need to test every ball you buy, question is what's the retailer or OEM going to say when you try to return or exchange those that don't meet your epsom salt test.

Anyone remember those gadgets that would spin the ball to find the true CoG?  Never came back to same spot twice (yes, when my kids were little they bought me one for Fathers' Day, so had to humor them and try it)...maybe a new improved version is in the works.

https://www.rockbott...rvY7BoCC3Xw_wcB

Pass


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#46 nix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

If these devises work and have been around forever than why does only one pro use it?

What do you guys know that no manufacturer or professional doesn't?

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

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#47 nix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

View Postgolfdad907, on 30 May 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Holy too much time on your hands, is this thread real?  Assuming so, I guess you'll need to test every ball you buy, question is what's the retailer or OEM going to say when you try to return or exchange those that don't meet your epsom salt test.

Anyone remember those gadgets that would spin the ball to find the true CoG?  Never came back to same spot twice (yes, when my kids were little they bought me one for Fathers' Day, so had to humor them and try it)...maybe a new improved version is in the works.

The best outcome is that the hard-core people will identify which brands are the worst, causing them to lose marketshare and thus up their QC and the QC for the industry and then everyone reaps the benefits of the resulting increase in quality.

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#48 mokedaddy

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 08:45 AM

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

If these devises work and have been around forever than why does only one pro use it?

What do you guys know that no manufacturer or professional doesn't?

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

Good for you.  Doesn't change the fact it's still worthless.
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#49 nix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 09:22 AM

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

If these devises work and have been around forever than why does only one pro use it?

What do you guys know that no manufacturer or professional doesn't?

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

Good for you.  Doesn't change the fact it's still worthless.

Link to facts?

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#50 mokedaddy

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 09:43 AM

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

If these devises work and have been around forever than why does only one pro use it?

What do you guys know that no manufacturer or professional doesn't?

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

Good for you.  Doesn't change the fact it's still worthless.

Link to facts?

I do not have the philosophical burden of proof.  That lies with those making claims it works.

Also feel free to try it yourself if you want.   You seem to be very familiar with scientific principles so make sure you do a controlled test with notes.

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#51 nix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:51 AM

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 25 May 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

If these devises work and have been around forever than why does only one pro use it?

What do you guys know that no manufacturer or professional doesn't?

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

Good for you.  Doesn't change the fact it's still worthless.

Link to facts?

I do not have the philosophical burden of proof.  That lies with those making claims it works.

Also feel free to try it yourself if you want.   You seem to be very familiar with scientific principles so make sure you do a controlled test with notes.

No, sorry. Burden of proof are on those claiming facts as you did. Otherwise, you're claiming opinion or suspicion or some other such thing, not facts.

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#52 mokedaddy

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:55 AM

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I never take credence in the appeal to authority means of testing arguments and theories. At one point all technologies and theories were only used by a tiny fraction of people, some were debunked and then used by fewer or none and some were verified and went into use by all.  Counting the number of people who subscribe to somthing or utilize it is one of the worst ways to determine if something is valid.

Good for you.  Doesn't change the fact it's still worthless.

Link to facts?

I do not have the philosophical burden of proof.  That lies with those making claims it works.

Also feel free to try it yourself if you want.   You seem to be very familiar with scientific principles so make sure you do a controlled test with notes.

No, sorry. Burden of proof are on those claiming facts as you did. Otherwise, you're claiming opinion or suspicion or some other such thing, not facts.

Wow.  I wasn't aware some dude on the internet can change the rules of scientific evidence!  Go float some balls if you want.  I have nothing to prove to someone on the internet that doesn't even understand basic scientific theory.
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#53 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:01 AM

The real question here for me is do the tour players test their golf balls? I'm not saying they do or do not, I'm really curious. I know Bryson D does, but are there any others?

I've been to several tour events and seen players pull boxes of balls from their bag and remove sleeves and mark them for play that day, and I've not noticed any marks on the balls already.

Now this is not to say these balls aren't tested by the manufacturer before sending them to the players, but that seems like a lot of extra work considering the thousands of balls sent to tour players every month.

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything like that when I was on the #TheWRX trip to Callaway this past December. Again, this doesn't mean it isn't true.

Edited by Hot Rod 71, 05 June 2017 - 11:03 AM.

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#54 mokedaddy

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:07 AM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 05 June 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

The real question here for me is do the tour players test their golf balls? I'm not saying they do or do not, I'm really curious. I know Bryson D does, but are there any others?

I've been to several tour events and seen players pull boxes of balls from their bag and remove sleeves and mark them for play that day, and I've not noticed any marks on the balls already.

Now this is not to say these balls aren't tested by the manufacturer before sending them to the players, but that seems like a lot of extra work considering the thousands of balls sent to tour players every month.

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything like that when I was on the #TheWRX trip to Callaway this past December. Again, this doesn't mean it isn't true.

The USGA tests to make sure the balls fly the same no matter the orientation.

https://www.usga.org...-guidelines.pdf
https://www.usga.org...t-procedure.pdf
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#55 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

View PostHot Rod 71, on 05 June 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

The real question here for me is do the tour players test their golf balls? I'm not saying they do or do not, I'm really curious. I know Bryson D does, but are there any others?

I've been to several tour events and seen players pull boxes of balls from their bag and remove sleeves and mark them for play that day, and I've not noticed any marks on the balls already.

Now this is not to say these balls aren't tested by the manufacturer before sending them to the players, but that seems like a lot of extra work considering the thousands of balls sent to tour players every month.

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything like that when I was on the #TheWRX trip to Callaway this past December. Again, this doesn't mean it isn't true.

The USGA tests to make sure the balls fly the same no matter the orientation.

https://www.usga.org...-guidelines.pdf
https://www.usga.org...t-procedure.pdf

So what you're saying is the pros don't need to?

If they don't need to, then why do we?

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#56 mokedaddy

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:13 AM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 05 June 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

View Postmokedaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

View PostHot Rod 71, on 05 June 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

The real question here for me is do the tour players test their golf balls? I'm not saying they do or do not, I'm really curious. I know Bryson D does, but are there any others?

I've been to several tour events and seen players pull boxes of balls from their bag and remove sleeves and mark them for play that day, and I've not noticed any marks on the balls already.

Now this is not to say these balls aren't tested by the manufacturer before sending them to the players, but that seems like a lot of extra work considering the thousands of balls sent to tour players every month.

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything like that when I was on the #TheWRX trip to Callaway this past December. Again, this doesn't mean it isn't true.

The USGA tests to make sure the balls fly the same no matter the orientation.

https://www.usga.org...-guidelines.pdf
https://www.usga.org...t-procedure.pdf

So what you're saying is the pros don't need to?

If they don't need to, then why do we?

Im not sure why anyone would do this to be honest.
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#57 North Butte

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:13 AM

I've seen the guy selling those Check-Go things on Golf Channel commercials.

I've seen Tour pros pull a ball out of a new sleeve, put their Sharpie dots on it and tee it up.

Somehow I find the Tour guys more convincing than the Check-Go guy. I must just be entirely too gullible, eh?
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#58 nix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:28 AM

"Wow.  I wasn't aware some dude on the internet can change the rules of scientific evidence!  Go float some balls if you want.  I have nothing to prove to someone on the internet that doesn't even understand basic scientific theory."


I am not claiming anything as fact, which suggests it's proven, you are.

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#59 arbeck

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:38 PM

View Postnix, on 05 June 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

The best outcome is that the hard-core people will identify which brands are the worst, causing them to lose marketshare and thus up their QC and the QC for the industry and then everyone reaps the benefits of the resulting increase in quality.

Or there is no noticeable change in performance, the brands have to up their QC costs to appease people on the internet, and money that could have been passed on as savings to the customer or as increased R&D is wasted.
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#60 North Butte

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:42 PM

This whole discussion reminds me of the cranky old "clubfitter" guys who want you to bring your brand-new Titleist or Callaway irons in to "check the frequencies" on their meter. They'll show you how they may be marked "S" but some of them have higher frequencies than X-flex hard-stepped and others are almost as low as Senior. That's why you ought to have bought some frequency matched, spined, PURE'd, custom blueprinted Hireko irons from them instead.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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