Top ten players ever who do you think are the ten best ever
#1
Posted 09 March 2008 - 08:22 PM
Tiger Woods
Jack Nicklaus
Sam Snead
Arnold Palmer
Byron Nelson
Ben Hogan
Gary Player
Billy Casper
Tom Watson
Honorable mentions Johnny Miller Vjay Singh Bobby Jones Hale Irwin who am I forgetting
game on
#9
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:10 PM
kenk7us2002, on Mar 9 2008, 09:01 PM, said:
Harry Vardon 7 wins
Walter Hagen 45 wins eleven majors
Billy Casper 51 wins three majors (the most ignored player in history)
He's off my list because of the small number of majors which I value in a higher priority
Vardon could easily be on the list as well no doubt.
#10
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:14 PM
Tiger Woods
Ben Hogan
Jack Nicklaus
Sam Snead
Arnold Palmer
Gary Player
Byron Nelson
Walter Hagan
Bobby Jones
Seve Ballesteros
Next 10:
Tom Watson
Gene Sarazen
Billy Casper
Nick Faldo
Lee Trevino
Cary Middelcoff
Greg Norman
Bernhard Langer
Harry Vardon
Vijay Singh
#11
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:16 PM
kenk7us2002, on Mar 9 2008, 10:01 PM, said:
Harry Vardon 7 wins
Walter Hagen 45 wins eleven majors
Billy Casper 51 wins three majors (the most ignored player in history)
I agree about Hagen, I forgot about him, but Vardon won 7 majors, in spite of a war getting in the way and only having two per year available to him, plus the whole illness thing. According to wikipedia (which I know isn't the most reliable source) he won 62 tournaments. And your list was very amerocentric, so I was just redressing the balance.
#12
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:17 PM
#15
Posted 10 March 2008 - 02:15 AM
Jack Nicklaus
Ben Hogan
Sam Snead
Byron Nelson
Walter Hagan
Arnold Palmer
Gary Player
Bobby Jones
Gene Sarazen
Tie at 10.5-
Billy Casper, Lee Trevino,
Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros,
Fred Couples, Phil Mickelson,
Nick Faldo, Greg Norman, Vijay Singh
#16
Posted 10 March 2008 - 08:10 AM
It is always a great conversation to have, but its difficult to guage great players thru history on Majors when those tournaments were not the same for each generation. Hagen never played in a masters in his useful golfing life, ever....so how can you penalize him for that?
Each era in golf was different.
That being said my list works out pretty close to most of the reasonable ones out there.
I give number one to tiger. This man is beating all comers in a time where everyone with any golf talent at all is on the tour. No one is holding out to be a pharmacist or a lawyer anymore. If you can play you play, and tiger whips them all.
Jack was indominitable. the man just stared other players down. He wasnt as scary as tiger, but he almost never lost when he had a chance to win. He didnt win all the time (19 runner ups in majors {WOW}), but he rarely if ever beat himself.
I would give my third slot to Jones. By the age of 28 the man had set the world of golf on its ear, and beaten all the ams, and all the pros of his age. He drove Hagen NUTS!!!
Then its hogan, but this one is harder. Why? Hogan was great, and great as great could be, but the man never beat nelson. Not once. Not in the caddie tournament at glen garden, and never won a single major until nelson retired. How can you be the the greatest of all time when you cant beat your best contemporary, ever. 1953 was the 3rd best year any golfer ever had, and that puts ben 3rd to me, but with those previous caveats.
Walter Hagen would be 4th for me. Hagen won majors sure, but he also brought respect, and even admiration to the Professional golf ranks. Up until hagen they were thought of as caddies, or lower class. Hagen would dine with Kings, and sheiks, and he brought golf a long way. In fact he was the first golfer who ever made a living from touring (couldnt beat jones when it really mattered tho). Professional golf was brought a long way by him. I mean the guy played in africa in the 20's!!
Any discussion of the greatest of all time has to include Nelson. Not only because of 1945 18 wins, and 11 straight (even if one of those was a partner event), but because in his time on tour even the great ben hogan never beat him. A great gentleman of the game.
Harry Vardon has to be on the list of greats of all time. The man brought golf global. He was the reason Hagen picked up a club in the first place. He still holds the record for most Brittish Opens, and probably will until tiger breaks it.
Arnold Palmer also has to be on the list. Not because he won 7 majors, and 62 tournaments, but because without arnold the game may never have been brought to tv. Arnold was the first major player who had to be great on television, and it was his charm and charisma that brought legitimacy to golf on tv when you couldnt even see the ball most of the time.
Gary Player also has to be on the list. along with tom watson. But after the first few in my opinion it all gets a lot more gray.
#17
Posted 10 March 2008 - 09:21 AM
mjc694, on Mar 10 2008, 09:10 AM, said:
It is always a great conversation to have, but its difficult to guage great players thru history on Majors when those tournaments were not the same for each generation. Hagen never played in a masters in his useful golfing life, ever....so how can you penalize him for that?
Each era in golf was different.
That being said my list works out pretty close to most of the reasonable ones out there.
I give number one to tiger. This man is beating all comers in a time where everyone with any golf talent at all is on the tour. No one is holding out to be a pharmacist or a lawyer anymore. If you can play you play, and tiger whips them all.
Jack was indominitable. the man just stared other players down. He wasnt as scary as tiger, but he almost never lost when he had a chance to win. He didnt win all the time (19 runner ups in majors {WOW}), but he rarely if ever beat himself.
I would give my third slot to Jones. By the age of 28 the man had set the world of golf on its ear, and beaten all the ams, and all the pros of his age. He drove Hagen NUTS!!!
Then its hogan, but this one is harder. Why? Hogan was great, and great as great could be, but the man never beat nelson. Not once. Not in the caddie tournament at glen garden, and never won a single major until nelson retired. How can you be the the greatest of all time when you cant beat your best contemporary, ever. 1953 was the 3rd best year any golfer ever had, and that puts ben 3rd to me, but with those previous caveats.
Walter Hagen would be 4th for me. Hagen won majors sure, but he also brought respect, and even admiration to the Professional golf ranks. Up until hagen they were thought of as caddies, or lower class. Hagen would dine with Kings, and sheiks, and he brought golf a long way. In fact he was the first golfer who ever made a living from touring (couldnt beat jones when it really mattered tho). Professional golf was brought a long way by him. I mean the guy played in africa in the 20's!!
Any discussion of the greatest of all time has to include Nelson. Not only because of 1945 18 wins, and 11 straight (even if one of those was a partner event), but because in his time on tour even the great ben hogan never beat him. A great gentleman of the game.
Harry Vardon has to be on the list of greats of all time. The man brought golf global. He was the reason Hagen picked up a club in the first place. He still holds the record for most Brittish Opens, and probably will until tiger breaks it.
Arnold Palmer also has to be on the list. Not because he won 7 majors, and 62 tournaments, but because without arnold the game may never have been brought to tv. Arnold was the first major player who had to be great on television, and it was his charm and charisma that brought legitimacy to golf on tv when you couldnt even see the ball most of the time.
Gary Player also has to be on the list. along with tom watson. But after the first few in my opinion it all gets a lot more gray.
Considering what you said about Hogan how does Byron not make your list.
#21
Posted 10 March 2008 - 02:00 PM
I do not know the old players I do not know their level of competition. I do not like just counting wins hard for me to judge using only a history book to judge with.
I realize they were great players it just seems like a different game.
#22
Posted 10 March 2008 - 02:17 PM
1. Tiger Woods
2. Jack Nicklaus
3. Byron Nelson
4. Sam Snead
5. Ben Hogan
6. Tom Watson
7. Gary Player
8. Walter Hagen
9. Arnold Palmer
10. Greg Norman / Nick Faldo / Seve Ballesteros / Lee Trevino tied.
Honorable mentions go to Peter Thompson and Johnny Miller.
#23
Posted 10 March 2008 - 02:19 PM
kenk7us2002, on Mar 10 2008, 03:00 PM, said:
I do not know the old players I do not know their level of competition. I do not like just counting wins hard for me to judge using only a history book to judge with.
I realize they were great players it just seems like a different game.
you want to have a discussion of the greatest players of all time, but you dont want to talk about historical players?
My friend if you dont know about jones, or hagen, or vardon you have some very exciting reading to do. In the late 20's and 1930 bobby Jones was just about the most recognizable athlete on the planet. A brilliant tactiton, a compettitor so fierce he used to get physically ill from his desire to win so much. A man who said to Herbert Warren Wind that a man could conceivably win all 4 majors in one year (for him those four were the us am, the brittish am, the us open, and the open championship), and then did it.
I envy you your chance to educate yourself a little about the history of this amazing game we all love so much that when we cant play it....we come here and chat about it. If i were you I would start with "The Greatest Game Ever Played" about a little golf game between harry vardon, ted ray and a caddie named Francis.
Greatest of all time is a delicious conversation because we all have our own subjective views, but dismissing some of the greatest golfers who ever picked up a club just because they didnt win on tv is a mistake.
Again, thanks for a fun topic.
#26
Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:42 PM
mjc694, on Mar 10 2008, 03:19 PM, said:
kenk7us2002, on Mar 10 2008, 03:00 PM, said:
I do not know the old players I do not know their level of competition. I do not like just counting wins hard for me to judge using only a history book to judge with.
I realize they were great players it just seems like a different game.
you want to have a discussion of the greatest players of all time, but you dont want to talk about historical players?
My friend if you dont know about jones, or hagen, or vardon you have some very exciting reading to do. In the late 20's and 1930 bobby Jones was just about the most recognizable athlete on the planet. A brilliant tactiton, a compettitor so fierce he used to get physically ill from his desire to win so much. A man who said to Herbert Warren Wind that a man could conceivably win all 4 majors in one year (for him those four were the us am, the brittish am, the us open, and the open championship), and then did it.
I envy you your chance to educate yourself a little about the history of this amazing game we all love so much that when we cant play it....we come here and chat about it. If i were you I would start with "The Greatest Game Ever Played" about a little golf game between harry vardon, ted ray and a caddie named Francis.
Greatest of all time is a delicious conversation because we all have our own subjective views, but dismissing some of the greatest golfers who ever picked up a club just because they didnt win on tv is a mistake.
Again, thanks for a fun topic.
I was reading about Jones and Vardon and Hagan probably before you were born. I have been at this game for a long time.
What I was saying was I never got to see them so its very difficult and unfair of me to judge them.
I am not dismissing them just not judging them
#27
Posted 10 March 2008 - 05:21 PM
Here is my list:
1. Jack Nicklaus
2. Tiger Woods
3. Bobby Jones
4. Ben Hogan
5. Sam Snead
6. Gary Player
7. Walter Hagen
8. Arnold Palmer
9. Tom Watson
10. Annika Sorenstam
Honorable Mentions: Byron Nelson, Harry Vardon, Kathy Whitworth, Lee Trevio, Billy Casper, Nick Faldo, Greg Norman, Mickey Wright, and too many other greats to list.
#28 Gallery_mjtoal_*
Posted 10 March 2008 - 05:52 PM
Remember that a lot of non-US players did not get into the US majors until the last 25 years or so, or into many US PGA events where the local players resented the foreigners (maybe still do) and there are golf events elsewhere in the world.
My Top 10 World players since WWII (not in order)
Nicklaus
Woods
Ballesteros
Watson
Player
Palmer
Thomson
Trevino
Hogan
Faldo
Others:
Locke
Norman
Nelson
#29
Posted 10 March 2008 - 05:58 PM
mjtoal, on Mar 10 2008, 04:52 PM, said:
Remember that a lot of non-US players did not get into the US majors until the last 25 years or so, or into many US PGA events where the local players resented the foreigners (maybe still do) and there are golf events elsewhere in the world.
My Top 10 World players since WWII (not in order)
Nicklaus
Woods
Ballesteros
Watson
Player
Palmer
Thomson
Trevino
Hogan
Faldo
Others:
Locke
Norman
Nelson
Hi Martin,
I agree, but I don't think it's disrespect, just that we don't know as much about them, and their name is not in front of us nearly as often. How many Open Championships did Peter Thomson win, like 6? Over here, we don't ever hear his name anymore, and that is a shame.
Cheers My Friend,
Kevin
#30
Posted 10 March 2008 - 06:02 PM
Another player that has also sprung to mind in the last hour or two is Bobby Locke...
And I'm wondering if Faldo and Seve could be placed higher than 10th..
#31
Posted 10 March 2008 - 06:04 PM
1. Jack
2. Tiger Woods
3. Bobby Jones
4. Ben Hogan
5. Harry Vardon
6. Young Tom Morris
7. Walter Hagen
8. Gary Player
9. Sam Snead
10. Byron Nelson
11. Arnold Palmer
12. Tom Watson
13. Seve
14. Trevino
14. Old Tom Morris
15. Allan Robertson
#33
Posted 10 March 2008 - 06:38 PM
Dudes are adding guys from the eighteen hundreds and women players.
Annika in her prime versus Arnie in his would that have been a good match.
How about Jack against Bobby.
Tiger against Ben or Byron Let your imagination run wild .
What I did learn was that ten was way to small of a number. Maybe I should have named 20 to 25 I am not sure.
But just the same my original list left out Faldo and Seve thats a bit insane two great players how about the Japanese player Isao Aoki or the big Venezuelean roberto divincenzo how many tournaments did he win?
Yep too many great players from different parts of the world and different era's
My question just really does not work. I hope it was fun and it certainly made me think.
#34
Posted 10 March 2008 - 06:42 PM
kenk7us2002, on Mar 10 2008, 05:38 PM, said:
Dudes are adding guys from the eighteen hundreds and women players.
Annika in her prime versus Arnie in his would that have been a good match.
How about Jack against Bobby.
Tiger against Ben or Byron Let your imagination run wild .
What I did learn was that ten was way to small of a number. Maybe I should have named 20 to 25 I am not sure.
But just the same my original list left out Faldo and Seve thats a bit insane two great players how about the Japanese player Isao Aoki or the big Venezuelean roberto divincenzo how many tournaments did he win?
Yep too many great players from different parts of the world and different era's
My question just really does not work. I hope it was fun and it certainly made me think.
Ken,
I thought it was a GREAT question, just really difficult to answer. I learned a lot too. We were both thinking about the modern era, and we automatically think about the US Players first which is not so good. Great, very fun discussion!
Kevin
#38
Posted 10 March 2008 - 10:08 PM
kenk7us2002, on Mar 9 2008, 09:01 PM, said:
Harry Vardon 7 wins
Walter Hagen 45 wins eleven majors
Billy Casper 51 wins three majors (the most ignored player in history)
Harry Vardon was the most dominate player of his generation, he won the British 6 times and the US Open once in 2 tries, Ouimet beat him famously in the other. To compare him statisticly to Billy Casper and Tiger Woods is irrelavant. He was the dominant player in the world before people even knew what golf was in this country. I do think Hagen was the best professional of his generation, Bobby Jones was probably the best player of the generation though. You have to remember that during the 1920's and early 30's being an amatuer was probably more prestigious than being a pro. In fact pros were looked down on by many people, for many reasons, not just his playing record, Jones should rank high on anyones list, IMO.
Billy Casper is without a doubt one of the most under rated players of all time. To me his record is similar to Mickelson's. He had the unfortunate priviledge of playing during the era of Palmer and Nicklaus, much as Phil plays in the era of Tiger. Phil with 33 wins and 3 majors could certainly reach the 51 wins Casper has, and more than likley will win more majors. Only time will tell, but I would not put Casper top 10, top 25 without a doubt. JMO
#39
Posted 10 March 2008 - 10:14 PM
mjc694, on Mar 10 2008, 08:10 AM, said:
It is always a great conversation to have, but its difficult to guage great players thru history on Majors when those tournaments were not the same for each generation. Hagen never played in a masters in his useful golfing life, ever....so how can you penalize him for that?
Each era in golf was different.
That being said my list works out pretty close to most of the reasonable ones out there.
I give number one to tiger. This man is beating all comers in a time where everyone with any golf talent at all is on the tour. No one is holding out to be a pharmacist or a lawyer anymore. If you can play you play, and tiger whips them all.
Jack was indominitable. the man just stared other players down. He wasnt as scary as tiger, but he almost never lost when he had a chance to win. He didnt win all the time (19 runner ups in majors {WOW}), but he rarely if ever beat himself.
I would give my third slot to Jones. By the age of 28 the man had set the world of golf on its ear, and beaten all the ams, and all the pros of his age. He drove Hagen NUTS!!!
Then its hogan, but this one is harder. Why? Hogan was great, and great as great could be, but the man never beat nelson. Not once. Not in the caddie tournament at glen garden, and never won a single major until nelson retired. How can you be the the greatest of all time when you cant beat your best contemporary, ever. 1953 was the 3rd best year any golfer ever had, and that puts ben 3rd to me, but with those previous caveats.
Walter Hagen would be 4th for me. Hagen won majors sure, but he also brought respect, and even admiration to the Professional golf ranks. Up until hagen they were thought of as caddies, or lower class. Hagen would dine with Kings, and sheiks, and he brought golf a long way. In fact he was the first golfer who ever made a living from touring (couldnt beat jones when it really mattered tho). Professional golf was brought a long way by him. I mean the guy played in africa in the 20's!!
Any discussion of the greatest of all time has to include Nelson. Not only because of 1945 18 wins, and 11 straight (even if one of those was a partner event), but because in his time on tour even the great ben hogan never beat him. A great gentleman of the game.
Harry Vardon has to be on the list of greats of all time. The man brought golf global. He was the reason Hagen picked up a club in the first place. He still holds the record for most Brittish Opens, and probably will until tiger breaks it.
Arnold Palmer also has to be on the list. Not because he won 7 majors, and 62 tournaments, but because without arnold the game may never have been brought to tv. Arnold was the first major player who had to be great on television, and it was his charm and charisma that brought legitimacy to golf on tv when you couldnt even see the ball most of the time.
Gary Player also has to be on the list. along with tom watson. But after the first few in my opinion it all gets a lot more gray.
Great analysis
#40
Posted 10 March 2008 - 10:31 PM
dlygrisse, on Mar 10 2008, 10:14 PM, said:
mjc694, on Mar 10 2008, 08:10 AM, said:
It is always a great conversation to have, but its difficult to guage great players thru history on Majors when those tournaments were not the same for each generation. Hagen never played in a masters in his useful golfing life, ever....so how can you penalize him for that?
Each era in golf was different.
That being said my list works out pretty close to most of the reasonable ones out there.
I give number one to tiger. This man is beating all comers in a time where everyone with any golf talent at all is on the tour. No one is holding out to be a pharmacist or a lawyer anymore. If you can play you play, and tiger whips them all.
Jack was indominitable. the man just stared other players down. He wasnt as scary as tiger, but he almost never lost when he had a chance to win. He didnt win all the time (19 runner ups in majors {WOW}), but he rarely if ever beat himself.
I would give my third slot to Jones. By the age of 28 the man had set the world of golf on its ear, and beaten all the ams, and all the pros of his age. He drove Hagen NUTS!!!
Then its hogan, but this one is harder. Why? Hogan was great, and great as great could be, but the man never beat nelson. Not once. Not in the caddie tournament at glen garden, and never won a single major until nelson retired. How can you be the the greatest of all time when you cant beat your best contemporary, ever. 1953 was the 3rd best year any golfer ever had, and that puts ben 3rd to me, but with those previous caveats.
Walter Hagen would be 4th for me. Hagen won majors sure, but he also brought respect, and even admiration to the Professional golf ranks. Up until hagen they were thought of as caddies, or lower class. Hagen would dine with Kings, and sheiks, and he brought golf a long way. In fact he was the first golfer who ever made a living from touring (couldnt beat jones when it really mattered tho). Professional golf was brought a long way by him. I mean the guy played in africa in the 20's!!
Any discussion of the greatest of all time has to include Nelson. Not only because of 1945 18 wins, and 11 straight (even if one of those was a partner event), but because in his time on tour even the great ben hogan never beat him. A great gentleman of the game.
Harry Vardon has to be on the list of greats of all time. The man brought golf global. He was the reason Hagen picked up a club in the first place. He still holds the record for most Brittish Opens, and probably will until tiger breaks it.
Arnold Palmer also has to be on the list. Not because he won 7 majors, and 62 tournaments, but because without arnold the game may never have been brought to tv. Arnold was the first major player who had to be great on television, and it was his charm and charisma that brought legitimacy to golf on tv when you couldnt even see the ball most of the time.
Gary Player also has to be on the list. along with tom watson. But after the first few in my opinion it all gets a lot more gray.
Great analysis
Great post, very informative, shows the poster actually sounded like he knew what he was talkin about. I'm new to the game and dont know much about the history of this game, I score a -3 on that post that tests your golf knowledge.
All i konw is, Tiger is #1!!! You guys can fill in the rest.





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