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Third best player of all time?


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#1 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:44 PM

Who would you argue is the third greatest golfer of all time?

I would vote for Sam Snead ... based on number of wins, majors, that gorgeous swing and the folk lore that surrounds him and his athletic ability.

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#2 knock it close

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:47 PM

Hogan, Jones or Sneed. Maybe the King too but I haven't thought close enough, could make arguments for all though

Edited by knock it close, 18 May 2017 - 09:49 PM.

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#3 Good_Miss_Chris

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:48 PM

Numbers say Snead, but my heart says Hogan.

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#4 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:49 PM

View Postknock it close, on 18 May 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Hogan, Jones or Sneed
Ya can't pick 3 ... that's too easy!
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#5 Good_Miss_Chris

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:50 PM

Also, JonesScott's career is not over yet...


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#6 knock it close

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:50 PM

View Posttatertot, on 18 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

View Postknock it close, on 18 May 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Hogan, Jones or Sneed
Ya can't pick 3 ... that's too easy!
I know I haven't looked close enough to give a final answer I'd probably lean Jones though....
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#7 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:54 PM

View PostGood_Miss_Chris, on 18 May 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

Numbers say Snead, but my heart says Hogan.

9 majors in 8 years ... and went 3-for-3 in majors, 5-for-6 overall in 1953 while in horrific pain ... pretty good argument could be made for Hogan.
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#8 littleinjunp

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM

Phil, easily.

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#9 Thrillhouse

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM

If you look at who was the most dominant in his era after tiger and nicklaus I'd say bobby jones. As great as palmer, player, Snead, hogan, and Nelson were they were always part of a group of good players, who didn't rise above the others the way tiger, jack, and jones did IMO.

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#10 cdnglf

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM

Not Jones or Nelson.


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#11 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

If you look at who was the most dominant in his era after tiger and nicklaus I'd say bobby jones. As great as palmer, player, Snead, hogan, and Nelson were they were always part of a group of good players, who didn't rise above the others the way tiger, jack, and jones did IMO.

I can see Jones ...

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Phil, easily.

This one is going to need some more convincing ...

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not Jones or Nelson.

And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?
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#12 CCTxGolf

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM

Palmer is definitely the most important golfer of all time and I would say he could make a pretty good run at third best too.

Cool topic!

Edited by CCTxGolf, 18 May 2017 - 10:14 PM.

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#13 dlygrisse

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:20 PM

Jones
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#14 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:29 PM

Walter Hagen.  11 majors before there was a Masters to win.
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#15 JunkerJorge

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:34 PM

Hogan didn't really go on a tear until Byron Nelson took his ball and went home. Just saying.


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#16 cdnglf

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM

View Posttatertot, on 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not Jones or Nelson.

And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?

Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.

Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors).  And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.

Edited by cdnglf, 18 May 2017 - 10:53 PM.


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#17 Shilgy

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM

View PostJunkerJorge, on 18 May 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Hogan didn't really go on a tear until Byron Nelson took his ball and went home. Just saying.
And Nelson won 38 of his 52 tour wins from 1941-1946. Rest of the world was otherwise occupied as I recall. Just saying.

Edited by Shilgy, 30 May 2017 - 04:14 PM.

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#18 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

View Posttatertot, on 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not Jones or Nelson.

And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?

Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.

Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 44 (and 11 pro majors).  And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.

Good stuff ...

Nelson is tough for me to judge. He dominated golf for a time, and while it was war time, Snead and Hogan were still playing while Nelson won 11 in a row and 18 of 35 in 1945.  His major total is low (5), but he basically retired at 34, and lost out on 14 majors cancelled because of the war. If he hadn't retired in the prime of his career, it would be interesting what his numbers would look like. And, as JunkerJorge pointed out above, Hogan's career did not take off until Nelson called it quits.
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#19 littleinjunp

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:03 PM

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50.

Only one of them played against the full complement of international players, in an era with ubiquitous swing trainers and personal masseuses and 'sports psychologists' and hyperbaric chambers and lap-band surgeries.  And Tiger Woods.

Edited by littleinjunp, 18 May 2017 - 11:04 PM.


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#20 JunkerJorge

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:06 PM

Comparing numbers doesn't give an accurate picture. To compare Jack and Tiger's numbers with the Hogan/Nelson Era when guys hardly if ever crossed the pond doesn't make a ton of sense. Also does greatest career = greatest player?

I don't understand why every quickly dismisses Nelson's run in 45-46. For one any streak of 11 in a row is huge I don't care what the situation is. There was plenty of competition. Hogan won a few in 45 so at least somebody was around. Also Nelson's average score that year was the lowest in history. Were all the good courses away as well?

It was a different time when the life of a pro wasn't so glam. Nelson had different goals and decided to hang it up at 34, but the fact remains that he flat out dominated Hogan when they competed together. If you want to just do a number count fine, but I think it is ridiculous to dismiss Nelson out of hand.


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#21 grm24

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:08 PM

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Phil, easily.
Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.

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#22 littleinjunp

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:10 PM

View Postgrm24, on 18 May 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Phil, easily.
Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.

The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol

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#23 grm24

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:12 PM

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

View Posttatertot, on 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not Jones or Nelson.

And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?

Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.

Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors).  And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.
42 wins for Phil is not nearly 50 PGA Tour wins. That's like saying Billy Caspers 51 PGA Tour wins are nearly 60.

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#24 littleinjunp

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:15 PM

But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever

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#25 grm24

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:19 PM

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

View Postgrm24, on 18 May 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Phil, easily.
Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.

The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol

And Phil couldn't make a par at Merion on a sub 100 yard par 3 when it counted in the final round. Greatest short game ever my rear. BTW Casper made par every time he laid up in the 1959 US Open. Played to his strengths. Perhaps Casper should have hit a driver 50-60 yards off line and almost knocked over a merchandise tent at Winged Foot like Phil did in 2006 to blow a US Open.

http://query.nytimes...755C0A9609C8B63

Edited by grm24, 18 May 2017 - 11:21 PM.


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#26 tatertot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:19 PM

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever

That statement is an excellent light for us to shine on all your past and future posts in this discussion.
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#27 dlygrisse

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:22 PM

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever
But seriously, based on what?  Did natural talent, whatever that is, just become common in the last few years?  But seriously.
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#28 cdnglf

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:23 PM

View Postgrm24, on 18 May 2017 - 11:12 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

View Posttatertot, on 18 May 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 18 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not Jones or Nelson.

And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?

Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.

Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors).  And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.
42 wins for Phil is not nearly 50 PGA Tour wins. That's like saying Billy Caspers 51 PGA Tour wins are nearly 60.

I didn't say PGA Tour... Phil also has 3 Euro Tour wins. So I was a bit generous in rounding up.

Edited by cdnglf, 18 May 2017 - 11:26 PM.


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#29 Shilgy

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:24 PM

If all it is is a number count them it must be Snead? Or Hagen as he had third most majors and I have learned on wrx that 11>9.
  I was looking up some other things earlier and saw an article that list the authors top 10 all time golfers. Only Tiger started his career in the last 45 years. Only Woods and Watson started their career in the last 65 years. Just seems unlikely to me that golf is the only sport that has regressed so much. All other sports we acknowledge that the athletes are bigger stronger faster better but not golf I guess. Most on this list were born over a century ago.
  Point being it's easy to just look at win totals and be awed by the players of long ago. Might it be at least partially due to the lack of competition? Comments about Nelson strike me like this. We hear that he did have a lot of competition because Snead and Hogan played. Well, if forbid the thought, we had a major war today and the tour consisted of DJ Day and Rory and a bunch of mini tour guys do you think the big three might get a lot of wins?
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#30 dlygrisse

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 11:25 PM

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

View Postgrm24, on 18 May 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

View Postlittleinjunp, on 18 May 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Phil, easily.
Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.

The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol
Lol. Yeah he did it every par 3 he ever played. Lol. lol lol.
Man you are really make some brilliant points. Lol.

Edited by dlygrisse, 18 May 2017 - 11:26 PM.

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