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DECADE by BirdieFire


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#151 drewtaylor21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 03:26 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

This hole seems kind of interesting.  It's a Par 5 big dogleg to the left.  I could hit 3-wood to the end of the dogleg or I could hit driver and try to cut across.  I've never played this course before but I'm assuming that left is O.B.

In the first picture, how much would you have remaining to the hole from the intersection of the 4 squares at the end of your cone? That "+" looks like a pretty good spot to be if you can still go for the green from there (and it looks like you could).  

Assuming you were hitting driver nicely on the day, you might consider cutting off more of the corner, but if it were me, I'd evaluate how things looked if the center of my cone was aimed up the line of the left rough.  Looks like there's a fairly large tree through the FW just to the right of that line, but if you know you can fly the trees on the left, it looks like you're cutting off another 20-30y without bringing a whole lot more trouble into play.  I would be curious how big those trees are both on the left side and through the FW though, if you're hitting into them and get blocked out, I think the better play is just to play to the corner of the dogleg and have a bit longer approach in.

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#152 ebrasmus21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 04:02 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 07 May 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

This hole seems kind of interesting.  It's a Par 5 big dogleg to the left.  I could hit 3-wood to the end of the dogleg or I could hit driver and try to cut across.  I've never played this course before but I'm assuming that left is O.B.

In the first picture, how much would you have remaining to the hole from the intersection of the 4 squares at the end of your cone? That "+" looks like a pretty good spot to be if you can still go for the green from there (and it looks like you could).  

Assuming you were hitting driver nicely on the day, you might consider cutting off more of the corner, but if it were me, I'd evaluate how things looked if the center of my cone was aimed up the line of the left rough.  Looks like there's a fairly large tree through the FW just to the right of that line, but if you know you can fly the trees on the left, it looks like you're cutting off another 20-30y without bringing a whole lot more trouble into play.  I would be curious how big those trees are both on the left side and through the FW though, if you're hitting into them and get blocked out, I think the better play is just to play to the corner of the dogleg and have a bit longer approach in.

Thanks Drew - it looks like I'd be about 250 out at the "+" - this play would allow me to hit 3 wood off the tee and 3 wood into the green.  

Cutting the dogleg would reduce the yardage significantly but I really don't have any idea what those trees look like - they could pose a problem.  

3 Wood might be the play.
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#153 drewtaylor21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 07:02 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Thanks Drew - it looks like I'd be about 250 out at the "+" - this play would allow me to hit 3 wood off the tee and 3 wood into the green.  

Cutting the dogleg would reduce the yardage significantly but I really don't have any idea what those trees look like - they could pose a problem.  

3 Wood might be the play.

What's your natural shot shape? Same with both driver and 3w?

Tough call if you're left with a 3w in, especially considering that if you miss on the far right of your cone, you're probably forced to lay up.  I think it all depends on the heigh of those trees on the left.  I'd definitely be looking to see if I could cut a little bit of the corner, but driver is a club that very rarely curves hard left on me, so I'm much more comfortable aiming relatively close to trouble on the left side, YMMV.
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#154 ebrasmus21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 07:15 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Thanks Drew - it looks like I'd be about 250 out at the "+" - this play would allow me to hit 3 wood off the tee and 3 wood into the green.  

Cutting the dogleg would reduce the yardage significantly but I really don't have any idea what those trees look like - they could pose a problem.  

3 Wood might be the play.

What's your natural shot shape? Same with both driver and 3w?

Tough call if you're left with a 3w in, especially considering that if you miss on the far right of your cone, you're probably forced to lay up.  I think it all depends on the heigh of those trees on the left.  I'd definitely be looking to see if I could cut a little bit of the corner, but driver is a club that very rarely curves hard left on me, so I'm much more comfortable aiming relatively close to trouble on the left side, YMMV.

My normal shape is right to left when swinging well.  Driver has been tough for me as of late with me missing tons of shots out to the right.  

Depending on the tree situation maybe Iíll have to make the call based on how Iím swinging that day.
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#155 drewtaylor21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 07:28 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Thanks Drew - it looks like I'd be about 250 out at the "+" - this play would allow me to hit 3 wood off the tee and 3 wood into the green.  

Cutting the dogleg would reduce the yardage significantly but I really don't have any idea what those trees look like - they could pose a problem.  

3 Wood might be the play.

What's your natural shot shape? Same with both driver and 3w?

Tough call if you're left with a 3w in, especially considering that if you miss on the far right of your cone, you're probably forced to lay up.  I think it all depends on the heigh of those trees on the left.  I'd definitely be looking to see if I could cut a little bit of the corner, but driver is a club that very rarely curves hard left on me, so I'm much more comfortable aiming relatively close to trouble on the left side, YMMV.

My normal shape is right to left when swinging well.  Driver has been tough for me as of late with me missing tons of shots out to the right.  

Depending on the tree situation maybe I'll have to make the call based on how I'm swinging that day.

If you hit it R to L, I like 3w and the cone in your first picture.  Hit it straight, you're fine.  If you happen to put a little bit more curve on it, you're cutting off the corner more.  Miss right and it's a 3-shot hole and birdie is still in the picture.  

But if those trees on the L are short and you're smoking driver that day.... :idhitit:
:)

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#156 ebrasmus21

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 07:32 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 07 May 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 07 May 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Thanks Drew - it looks like I'd be about 250 out at the "+" - this play would allow me to hit 3 wood off the tee and 3 wood into the green.  

Cutting the dogleg would reduce the yardage significantly but I really don't have any idea what those trees look like - they could pose a problem.  

3 Wood might be the play.

What's your natural shot shape? Same with both driver and 3w?

Tough call if you're left with a 3w in, especially considering that if you miss on the far right of your cone, you're probably forced to lay up.  I think it all depends on the heigh of those trees on the left.  I'd definitely be looking to see if I could cut a little bit of the corner, but driver is a club that very rarely curves hard left on me, so I'm much more comfortable aiming relatively close to trouble on the left side, YMMV.

My normal shape is right to left when swinging well.  Driver has been tough for me as of late with me missing tons of shots out to the right.  

Depending on the tree situation maybe I'll have to make the call based on how I'm swinging that day.

If you hit it R to L, I like 3w and the cone in your first picture.  Hit it straight, you're fine.  If you happen to put a little bit more curve on it, you're cutting off the corner more.  Miss right and it's a 3-shot hole and birdie is still in the picture.  

But if those trees on the L are short and you're smoking driver that day.... :idhitit:
:)

Thanks Drew, I appreciate the feedback.  

Hopefully Iím feeling confident enough to send it over the corner.  I think a good driver over the corner will leave 4 or 5 iron in.
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#157 Siper11

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:13 AM

View Poststickner, on 18 May 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

I was a Computer Science & Math major back in the day and I work in the Data Science field (advanced statistical analytics and predictive modeling).

I developed a stat tracking approach that delivers an ENORMOUS amount of insight compared to DECADE (that is not at all meant as a slam against DECADE as it is an amazing system!). To get all of that extra info however, you have to provide more data. It really is a simple equation - the more info you provide, the better insights you can achieve. Obviously there is a line in the sand somewhere with the info that is collected (e.g. asking how traffic was on the way to the course, while it may prove to be interesting, it is another piece of info that the golfer would need to provide).

I have been toying around with turning this into a free app.

Truth be told, there isn't much to putting it together. At its core it really is just a straight forward data entry system. The heavy lifting is in the analytics, modeling, and simulations I am doing. The balancing act is collecting as much info as possible without overburdening the golfer.

If I move forward with this, I will be looking for some testers to help get through the alpha/beta stages...


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#158 Siper11

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:15 AM

You should build an app using the free version of Splunk. Hereís a cool blog you might find interesting - https://www.splunk.c...-my-swing.html. Imagine using your stats with ML to recommend shots based on real time performance

You should build an app using the free version of Splunk. Hereís a cool blog you might find interesting - https://www.splunk.c...-my-swing.html. Imagine using your stats with ML to recommend shots based on real time performance

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#159 rebby

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 03:41 PM

View PostSiper11, on 16 May 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

You should build an app using the free version of Splunk. Here's a cool blog you might find interesting - https://www.splunk.c...-my-swing.html. Imagine using your stats with ML to recommend shots based on real time performance

That sure beats the crap out of my Numbers Spreadsheet. I may have to give that a try.
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#160 ebrasmus21

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:59 PM

Could use some help on this one.  This is a 390 yard par 4.  OB all along the right and also the right is heavily protected off the tee by trees.  Only way to send D is to cut it around the trees.  Hitting a proper cut allows me to land it in the widest part of the fairway and still have wedge in.  Missing to the left is still in play but its just a punch out into the fairway.  

Problem is I'm really not comfortable with my driver swing right now and I've been losing a ton of shots out to the right with it.  I have a club championship match coming up so I wonder if I need to reconsider strategy.  

What'd you guys think?

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#161 drewtaylor21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 04:09 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 23 May 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Could use some help on this one.  This is a 390 yard par 4.  OB all along the right and also the right is heavily protected off the tee by trees.  Only way to send D is to cut it around the trees.  Hitting a proper cut allows me to land it in the widest part of the fairway and still have wedge in.  Missing to the left is still in play but its just a punch out into the fairway.  

Problem is I'm really not comfortable with my driver swing right now and I've been losing a ton of shots out to the right with it.  I have a club championship match coming up so I wonder if I need to reconsider strategy.  

What'd you guys think?

I'd be looking at the X as my target for line and carry, especially if playing a small cut

Screen Shot 2018-05-24 at 2.07.04 PM.png
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#162 ebrasmus21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 23 May 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Could use some help on this one.  This is a 390 yard par 4.  OB all along the right and also the right is heavily protected off the tee by trees.  Only way to send D is to cut it around the trees.  Hitting a proper cut allows me to land it in the widest part of the fairway and still have wedge in.  Missing to the left is still in play but its just a punch out into the fairway.  

Problem is I'm really not comfortable with my driver swing right now and I've been losing a ton of shots out to the right with it.  I have a club championship match coming up so I wonder if I need to reconsider strategy.  

What'd you guys think?

I'd be looking at the X as my target for line and carry, especially if playing a small cut

Screen Shot 2018-05-24 at 2.07.04 PM.png

Drew - even if that leaves me 180 - 170 out compared to driver leaving wedge?
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#163 drewtaylor21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 04:13 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 23 May 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Could use some help on this one.  This is a 390 yard par 4.  OB all along the right and also the right is heavily protected off the tee by trees.  Only way to send D is to cut it around the trees.  Hitting a proper cut allows me to land it in the widest part of the fairway and still have wedge in.  Missing to the left is still in play but its just a punch out into the fairway.  

Problem is I'm really not comfortable with my driver swing right now and I've been losing a ton of shots out to the right with it.  I have a club championship match coming up so I wonder if I need to reconsider strategy.  

What'd you guys think?

I'd be looking at the X as my target for line and carry, especially if playing a small cut

Screen Shot 2018-05-24 at 2.07.04 PM.png

Drew - even if that leaves me 180 - 170 out compared to driver leaving wedge?

Take another screen shot with the middle of your cone pointed over that big FW bunker on the right and adjust the view a bit so we can see more around driver landing area....

*Edit: Please :)

Edited by drewtaylor21, 24 May 2018 - 04:14 PM.

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#164 ebrasmus21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 04:24 PM

This requires a pretty healthy cut - which I've elected to play the past several weeks.  The fairway widens down here but the double cross causes some big problems on this hole as well.  

A good driver will leave me 56* or 52* into the green.  Even if I hit it bad it's still PW.  Just not confident with Driver right now....

Edited by ebrasmus21, 01 August 2018 - 11:55 PM.

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#165 drewtaylor21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:52 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

This requires a pretty healthy cut - which I've elected to play the past several weeks.  The fairway widens down here but the double cross causes some big problems on this hole as well.  

A good driver will leave me 56* or 52* into the green.  Even if I hit it bad it's still PW.  Just not confident with Driver right now....

View PostQMany, on 27 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:


Man, that's a tough one.  Personally, I still like the X target I drew as a landing spot.  I would assume you'll get some roll from there, and if the ball is coming in left to right and landing on that X, it's going to roll further right along the line of the dogleg.   If that leaves you 160-180 ish and no significant trouble, I have to think your scoring average from there is going to be better than it would be if you're bringing big numbers into play with driver.  Looking back at the tee, there looks to be some tree issues that would prevent you from aiming right, so as you said, a pretty healthy cut (slice lol).  It just looks like more of a risk than the reward might be worth.  

Matt, what do you think?

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#166 ebrasmus21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:06 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

This requires a pretty healthy cut - which I've elected to play the past several weeks.  The fairway widens down here but the double cross causes some big problems on this hole as well.  

A good driver will leave me 56* or 52* into the green.  Even if I hit it bad it's still PW.  Just not confident with Driver right now....

View PostQMany, on 27 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:


Man, that's a tough one.  Personally, I still like the X target I drew as a landing spot.  I would assume you'll get some roll from there, and if the ball is coming in left to right and landing on that X, it's going to roll further right along the line of the dogleg.   If that leaves you 160-180 ish and no significant trouble, I have to think your scoring average from there is going to be better than it would be if you're bringing big numbers into play with driver.  Looking back at the tee, there looks to be some tree issues that would prevent you from aiming right, so as you said, a pretty healthy cut (slice lol).  It just looks like more of a risk than the reward might be worth.  

Matt, what do you think?

I think you could be right about that.  I could hit 3 iron in that case I'd even though I'm wild I don't see myself getting into huge trouble with that club.  It's one of the more challenging tee shots on the course.
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#167 drewtaylor21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:51 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

This requires a pretty healthy cut - which I've elected to play the past several weeks.  The fairway widens down here but the double cross causes some big problems on this hole as well.  

A good driver will leave me 56* or 52* into the green.  Even if I hit it bad it's still PW.  Just not confident with Driver right now....

View PostQMany, on 27 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:


Man, that's a tough one.  Personally, I still like the X target I drew as a landing spot.  I would assume you'll get some roll from there, and if the ball is coming in left to right and landing on that X, it's going to roll further right along the line of the dogleg.   If that leaves you 160-180 ish and no significant trouble, I have to think your scoring average from there is going to be better than it would be if you're bringing big numbers into play with driver.  Looking back at the tee, there looks to be some tree issues that would prevent you from aiming right, so as you said, a pretty healthy cut (slice lol).  It just looks like more of a risk than the reward might be worth.  

Matt, what do you think?

I think you could be right about that.  I could hit 3 iron in that case I'd even though I'm wild I don't see myself getting into huge trouble with that club.  It's one of the more challenging tee shots on the course.

Does 3 iron guarantee you carry the big FW bunker on the right, even if not hit great? If not, I'd go up one more club...
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#168 ebrasmus21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:59 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

This requires a pretty healthy cut - which I've elected to play the past several weeks.  The fairway widens down here but the double cross causes some big problems on this hole as well.  

A good driver will leave me 56* or 52* into the green.  Even if I hit it bad it's still PW.  Just not confident with Driver right now....

View PostQMany, on 27 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:


Man, that's a tough one.  Personally, I still like the X target I drew as a landing spot.  I would assume you'll get some roll from there, and if the ball is coming in left to right and landing on that X, it's going to roll further right along the line of the dogleg.   If that leaves you 160-180 ish and no significant trouble, I have to think your scoring average from there is going to be better than it would be if you're bringing big numbers into play with driver.  Looking back at the tee, there looks to be some tree issues that would prevent you from aiming right, so as you said, a pretty healthy cut (slice lol).  It just looks like more of a risk than the reward might be worth.  

Matt, what do you think?

I think you could be right about that.  I could hit 3 iron in that case I'd even though I'm wild I don't see myself getting into huge trouble with that club.  It's one of the more challenging tee shots on the course.

Does 3 iron guarantee you carry the big FW bunker on the right, even if not hit great? If not, I'd go up one more club...

I'd need to send 3W to guarantee carrying the bunkers on the right.  When I started playing this course I was hitting 3 wood with my aim at the bunker on the left trying to get the ball to cut just off the right edge of the left bunker.  Naturally, I hit it dead straight on a number of occasions directly into that bunker.  This is what got me rethinking this hole.  

I try not to over think this tee shot too much but since I'm playing in the club championship and I'm fighting a nasty block........


BTW - you're the man Drew.  Thanks for your advice/help in this thread.

Edited by ebrasmus21, 24 May 2018 - 10:00 PM.

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#169 Gresh12

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:00 PM

Hoping someone can help me out as I can’t find many details on the Elite versus Lite version. I’ve been on the website and tried searching through reviews and videos.

I was a 2 handicap many years ago but life has limited my golf time so I play to a 7 these days. I am a numbers guy so I love the analytics that are now coming available.

I stumbled on to this thread while comparing Game Golf, Arcoss and Shot Scope and I have almost finished reading Brodie’s book. I was looking at these devices to collect stroked gained stats but feel like their limitations may make me regret the purchase. Putting info seems lacking on all and Arcoss I don’t want things in my pocket or wearing something on my wrist for Shot Scope doesn’t excite me either.

I am close to giving Decade a try but I don’t really understand the difference between the Elite versus Lite version. The website has the side by side but I am struggling to know what is missing from the following:

- full decade course management. Does this mean course management is totally excluded or it’s a paired back version? If the latter what is missing?
- detailed analysis for players averaging less than 80. It’s not clear what I’m losing out on. I like stats but maybe this is such a level it’s overkill.

I play my home course 95% of the time so I’m interested in the strategy piece conceptually but once I make some fundamental adjustments this isn’t really to help me score at tournaments at different courses each week.

The Elite fee isn’t going to change my life but it’s quite a jump from Lite without a clear understanding of what I get. I am at the point of choosing Shot Scope (seems like putting is somewhat better than others), Decade or just trying to find a decent strokes gained spreadsheet. Any help deciding would be appreciated.

Thanks

19

#170 drewtaylor21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:07 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Does 3 iron guarantee you carry the big FW bunker on the right, even if not hit great? If not, I'd go up one more club...

I'd need to send 3W to guarantee carrying the bunkers on the right.  When I started playing this course I was hitting 3 wood with my aim at the bunker on the left trying to get the ball to cut just off the right edge of the left bunker.  Naturally, I hit it dead straight on a number of occasions directly into that bunker.  This is what got me rethinking this hole.  

I try not to over think this tee shot too much but since I'm playing in the club championship and I'm fighting a nasty block........

BTW - you're the man Drew.  Thanks for your advice/help in this thread.

I'd say 3W is the play then.  My assumption when looking at the pictures is that it looks like if you're in the big FW bunker to the right, you are likely blocked out from the green unless you hit a big cut or can blast it straight up over the trees just past the bunkers.  Neither of those sound like fun shots to attempt in my book, so I see the left bunker as being the lesser of the two evils, and something I'm willing to take on a bit more.  

Tough hole!  Out of curiosity, how wide is your cone there for driver?

And thanks for continuing to post pictures, I personally think it's a lot of fun trying to figure out the best strategy on a hole! Happy to chime in

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#171 ebrasmus21

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:27 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 24 May 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 24 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Does 3 iron guarantee you carry the big FW bunker on the right, even if not hit great? If not, I'd go up one more club...

I'd need to send 3W to guarantee carrying the bunkers on the right.  When I started playing this course I was hitting 3 wood with my aim at the bunker on the left trying to get the ball to cut just off the right edge of the left bunker.  Naturally, I hit it dead straight on a number of occasions directly into that bunker.  This is what got me rethinking this hole.  

I try not to over think this tee shot too much but since I'm playing in the club championship and I'm fighting a nasty block........

BTW - you're the man Drew.  Thanks for your advice/help in this thread.

I'd say 3W is the play then.  My assumption when looking at the pictures is that it looks like if you're in the big FW bunker to the right, you are likely blocked out from the green unless you hit a big cut or can blast it straight up over the trees just past the bunkers.  Neither of those sound like fun shots to attempt in my book, so I see the left bunker as being the lesser of the two evils, and something I'm willing to take on a bit more.  

Tough hole!  Out of curiosity, how wide is your cone there for driver?

And thanks for continuing to post pictures, I personally think it's a lot of fun trying to figure out the best strategy on a hole! Happy to chime in

Left bunker is better for sure.  Right bunkers can be okay as long as the ball isnít too far right..

Iíd have to measure again but I think I set my cone to 75 or 80 yards for the driver in order to try and account for my wildness. At any rate I added at least 10 yards to whatever the PGA tour average is
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#172 mws92

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:03 AM

One question for the guys who have gone through the seminar.  When you look at the shotgun pattern of shots off a tee for a right handed golfer, shots to the left tend to travel further than average and shots to the right travel shorter than average (think tilted ellipse).

Posted Image

When you draw your cone and the center line has your average shot distance, shouldn't the left side of the cone stretch a little further and the right side a little shorter?

Edited by mws92, 26 May 2018 - 12:04 AM.


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#173 mhawk709

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Copperhead 6.JPG

Edited by mhawk709, 20 June 2018 - 11:26 AM.


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#174 two_wood13

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:21 AM

View Postmhawk709, on 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Attachment Copperhead 6.JPG

I'm new to decade and interested in these types of holes as well. My home course has some similar holes 450yds+ w/ ~40yds trees-to-trees

Mhawk - Is that cone 280-285yds long, 80-85yds wide?

Without knowing your game, my take on this would be that if you hit it in that cone, you're basically in the trees half the time...so from there, you basically make 5 half the time (successful punch out), 4 half the time (successful FW, GIR), with the occasional 3 and 6 (6s probably happen more than 3s) - so stroke average somewhere above 4.5.  

Let's assume that the 3h keeps it in play essentially every time, and leaves you with 185. If that's a 40% GIR, your stroke average might be better...out of ten maybe you go 4 GIR for par, 2 up and down for par, 4 bogies (assuming birdies and doubles cancel), for a 4.4 average.

Simplified analysis and obviously you might be better than those numbers suggest, but that's how I'm thinking about it. Interested to hear what others think

24

#175 drewtaylor21

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 03:24 PM

View Postmhawk709, on 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Attachment Copperhead 6.JPG

If you're going just by the book with the DECADE approach, you're hitting driver any time there are no penalty areas inside your cone.  Trees, despite costing fractions of a shot, are not considered penalties.  

That said, having played that hole on my simulator many times, I know the fairway slopes from right to left, so unless you're hitting a cut, the available fairway is actually even narrower than it appears.  I would also argue that your cone isn't angled appropriately and needs to be shifted so that the center line is further left.  If you hit your driver in the right 1/3 of that cone, it's going to hit the trees about 50y in front of you.  With that in mind, over 50% of your cone is in the trees, which in my opinion is not great odds.

I always went with 4i off the tee, which left ~7 iron in and it worked out nicely for me, YMMV!

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#176 mhawk709

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:36 PM

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 27 June 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

View Postmhawk709, on 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Attachment Copperhead 6.JPG

If you're going just by the book with the DECADE approach, you're hitting driver any time there are no penalty areas inside your cone.  Trees, despite costing fractions of a shot, are not considered penalties.  

That said, having played that hole on my simulator many times, I know the fairway slopes from right to left, so unless you're hitting a cut, the available fairway is actually even narrower than it appears.  I would also argue that your cone isn't angled appropriately and needs to be shifted so that the center line is further left.  If you hit your driver in the right 1/3 of that cone, it's going to hit the trees about 50y in front of you.  With that in mind, over 50% of your cone is in the trees, which in my opinion is not great odds.

I always went with 4i off the tee, which left ~7 iron in and it worked out nicely for me, YMMV!

Thanks, Drew. So any trees, bunkers, and longer rough are not considered hazards? So bombs away as long as there's 70 yds between OB/water? Thanks again!

26

#177 Ty_Webb

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:53 PM

View Postmhawk709, on 29 June 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 27 June 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

View Postmhawk709, on 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Attachment Copperhead 6.JPG

If you're going just by the book with the DECADE approach, you're hitting driver any time there are no penalty areas inside your cone.  Trees, despite costing fractions of a shot, are not considered penalties.  

That said, having played that hole on my simulator many times, I know the fairway slopes from right to left, so unless you're hitting a cut, the available fairway is actually even narrower than it appears.  I would also argue that your cone isn't angled appropriately and needs to be shifted so that the center line is further left.  If you hit your driver in the right 1/3 of that cone, it's going to hit the trees about 50y in front of you.  With that in mind, over 50% of your cone is in the trees, which in my opinion is not great odds.

I always went with 4i off the tee, which left ~7 iron in and it worked out nicely for me, YMMV!

Thanks, Drew. So any trees, bunkers, and longer rough are not considered hazards? So bombs away as long as there's 70 yds between OB/water? Thanks again!

There's a second step if there is 65 yards between penalty hazards. Is there 40 yards between other trouble. If there is, then hit driver. If it's less than 40 yards, then if 3 wood avoids that trouble, hit 3 wood. If it still puts you in the trouble, then hit driver. It's a generally very aggressive policy.
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#178 Dan Drake

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:04 PM

I'd say off the tee it's more aggressive, distance-wise, but with more conservative target lines.  In other words, you aren't aiming for the center of the fairway much, more often erring towards the least penal of the two sides and accepting the shots that just sneak into the rough as "reasonable outcomes."  Maybe "Intelligently Aggressive?"

Into the green, I'd say it's more conservative target lines again, but with much better calculated yardages than just lasering the pin and using that number.  I'd call this one "Strategically Conservative."

There isn't anything for the short game yet, and probably won't be as the target for DECADE is certainly elite to professional players.  But, I have been using some of the very basic tenants of DECADE with my higher handicap students around the green and they are ecstatic at the number of tap in bogeys they now have, as opposed to hitting multiple short game shots into hazards during a round!

Also, I did get to meet Scott at the PGA Show.  Nice guy and very smart and passionate.  I came away very impressed.  I would love to see a mid/high handicapper short game section fully fleshed out as well as a bag setup suggestion type of algorithm.  Hey, I can dream, right!?

Edited by Dan Drake, 29 June 2018 - 02:07 PM.

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#179 drewtaylor21

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:27 PM

View Postmhawk709, on 29 June 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

View Postdrewtaylor21, on 27 June 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

View Postmhawk709, on 20 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hi folks,

Loving all the discussion in this thread. Very useful. I just became a Lite member and looking forward to adding information. Question for those with more experience. How should we go about longer tree lined courses? I'll be fortunate to play Innisbrook Copperhead in October and that course looks long and tight, but mostly due to trees. Here's the 422 yard, 6th hole as an example.

Driver dispersion brings trees into play on both sides. Laying back to 250/260 with 3w still brings trees in play and lengthens approach shot. 3h is the straighter club but then I'm looking at 185-190 for an approach shot. Is it Driver and hope we hit a good one? Then if we don't, punch out and try to get up and down for par but bogey at worst?

Thanks for reading!

Attachment Copperhead 6.JPG

If you're going just by the book with the DECADE approach, you're hitting driver any time there are no penalty areas inside your cone.  Trees, despite costing fractions of a shot, are not considered penalties.  

That said, having played that hole on my simulator many times, I know the fairway slopes from right to left, so unless you're hitting a cut, the available fairway is actually even narrower than it appears.  I would also argue that your cone isn't angled appropriately and needs to be shifted so that the center line is further left.  If you hit your driver in the right 1/3 of that cone, it's going to hit the trees about 50y in front of you.  With that in mind, over 50% of your cone is in the trees, which in my opinion is not great odds.

I always went with 4i off the tee, which left ~7 iron in and it worked out nicely for me, YMMV!

Thanks, Drew. So any trees, bunkers, and longer rough are not considered hazards? So bombs away as long as there's 70 yds between OB/water? Thanks again!

There are additional considerations, as mentioned above, but for the most part your statement is pretty close to correct!  

This sums it up pretty well :)

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Edited by drewtaylor21, 29 June 2018 - 09:28 PM.

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#180 Peter_b

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 11:13 AM

Decade definitely needs to pair up with Arccos. Arccos with pretty few additions would have everything Decade would need to calculate. Data collector + Data processor. Or if you like Arccos sucks at processing data and Decade will not collect a single shot automatically. Its horrible to have to enter the data that Arccos already has for the round. Arccos has a super sweet website and app whereas Decade site and app is quite like Windows 3.1. I cant even find a way to change metrics. First golf app that can not.
I wrote to Decade and Arccos to communicate with each other if at least an export/import would be possible. Maybe others should too. An Arccos powered by Decade would be something pretty neat and nasty.

PS: Arccos could even do the cone drawing.

Edited by Peter_b, 29 July 2018 - 01:19 PM.


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