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DECADE by BirdieFire


158 replies to this topic

#1 QMany

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:15 AM

Unfortunately, the previous thread was deleted. But the content and discussion was so good, I wanted to bring it back. Please, no "promoting" or anything close to it. Keep the discussion limited to the features and concepts for course strategy and stat tracking.

Quote

The DECADE Course Management System, created by Scott Fawcett, has solved golf strategy by combining shot distribution patterns and PGA Tour scoring statistics. When Scott combined those two data sets he created a simple way to optimize target selection. Good players know if a pin is closely guarded by a lake to favor the center of the green – but how much? DECADE quickly generates the optimal target that will produce the lowest score based on distance, hazards, and hole location.

I think most of us instinctively do this, for example aim a little long when water is short, but DECADE helps quantify it.



DeChambeau's Unique Approach Has Him on Uncharted Path

Quote

Then there is the use of analytics or that “unique approach,” that McNealy talks about. The process began when DeChambeau attended a seminar conducted by Scott Fawcett at SMU about a year ago. Fawcett is a former pro who uses shot statistics to not only address a player’s weaknesses, but also improve the percentages of shots a player takes.

“He's helped me understand the percentages of going for flags, when to go for flags and when not to,” said DeChambeau, who helped the USA win the 2014 World Amateur Team Championship in Japan and reached the Round of 16 in the U.S. Amateur Four-Ball in May.

“It's more of a shotgun approach rather than a sniper approach where you can't hit it 5 feet right of the flag every single time. So we try and move that distribution to where you're maximizing your potential of hitting the green every single time.”

DeChambeau estimates that the statistical analysis saves him nearly a stroke per round.

He also works with newly-crowned ACC Player of the Year Will Zalatoris, other amateurs, and pros.

There is a Driving Tutorial on Scott's YouTube channel that is great!



I signed up for DECADE about a month ago and have really enjoyed the content. The stats portal has helped me identify weaknesses I need to work on compared to golfers of my caliber, better and worse.

Edited by QMany, 17 May 2017 - 08:17 AM.

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#2 J13

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

Course management is extremely important but your right when you say most better players already do this.  I think if someone is a super aggressive player something like this could help much more then a conservative player who only shoots at flags when there is little risk.
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#3 QMany

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:24 AM

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Course management is extremely important but your right when you say most better players already do this.  I think if someone is a super aggressive player something like this could help much more then a conservative player who only shoots at flags when there is little risk.

It showed me that I was being a little too aggressive with longer irons and too conservative inside 150 yards. More than anything, I think it just helps instill confidence. Knowing that a very large percentage of your shot pattern is going to be a decent shot on the green or FW with proper aiming has helped me put more aggressive swings on those targets. I hope that makes sense!
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#4 J13

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:30 AM

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Course management is extremely important but your right when you say most better players already do this.  I think if someone is a super aggressive player something like this could help much more then a conservative player who only shoots at flags when there is little risk.

It showed me that I was being a little too aggressive with longer irons and too conservative inside 150 yards. More than anything, I think it just helps instill confidence. Knowing that a very large percentage of your shot pattern is going to be a decent shot on the green or FW with proper aiming has helped me put more aggressive swings on those targets. I hope that makes sense!

I have a general rule of thumb for my longer irons.  When i have a 3,4, or 5 iron i shoot for middle of the green regardless of pin location.  When i have 6 or 7 iron i try to work the ball to the proper side of the green somewhat pin high, 8-wedge i'm working the ball to get within 15ft.  That margin shrinks as i get closer to wedge.
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#5 Waterboy

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:40 AM

Matt - Thanks for the resurrection of the DECADE thread.  

I've been at it for about the same amount of time that you have and the biggest difference I've noticed is that it gets me to take a different look at what the outcomes could be rather then expect and assume my shot to go exactly where I want it. I want to shoot a lower score each time I play, but sometimes the over aggressiveness can really start adding double bogies to the scorecard.

Since starting the program I've noticed that I do get my opportunities for birdies, but don't need to get over aggressive and turn my birdie into a 3-putt bogie.

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#6 QMany

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:47 AM

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

I have a general rule of thumb for my longer irons.  When i have a 3,4, or 5 iron i shoot for middle of the green regardless of pin location.  When i have 6 or 7 iron i try to work the ball to the proper side of the green somewhat pin high, 8-wedge i'm working the ball to get within 15ft.  That margin shrinks as i get closer to wedge.

Yessir, you have the right idea! I'm very analytical, and it helps me think through my targets and then put a confident swing on the ball. It is all about shifting the center of your shot pattern to get the best results not knowing exactly where ball will finish in your "shotgun."

Posted Image

Edited by QMany, 17 May 2017 - 08:47 AM.

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#7 pingnewbie

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:50 AM

How does one go about finding their shotgun pattern?  Does it have to be on Trackman?

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#8 QMany

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

View Postpingnewbie, on 17 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

How does one go about finding their shotgun pattern?  Does it have to be on Trackman?

I'm going to try to get on TrackMan ASAP to determine my driver pattern. In the meantime, I've been using Scott's 65 yards at 290-300 to plan my tee shot strategy on Google Maps.
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#9 pusb365

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:59 AM

The last thread was full of good information, particularly Scott's replies.

I'm yet to pull the trigger on it although I am very tempted. So far I have just entered one round into the free version and the limited stats from the free version shows that I was -4.79 SG putting for my round LOL

Probably not much point in me committing to Decade until I sort my putting out.

By the way, that SG putting figure - is that against a whole range of handicaps, or against tour players?  Or is it based against typical similar scores?

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#10 QMany

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:22 AM

View Postpusb365, on 17 May 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'm yet to pull the trigger on it although I am very tempted. So far I have just entered one round into the free version and the limited stats from the free version shows that I was -4.79 SG putting for my round LOL

Probably not much point in me committing to Decade until I sort my putting out.

There are some really good videos on putting including a speed drill that has helped me immensely.

View Postpusb365, on 17 May 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

By the way, that SG putting figure - is that against a whole range of handicaps, or against tour players?  Or is it based against typical similar scores?

Comparative Analysis gauges against differing scoring average ranges: > 68, 69-70, 71-72, etc. On the About page, you can see an screenshot example.

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#11 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:44 AM

Not being a stats guy in terms of keeping them myself, just keeping stats of any kind has been useful so that's been very interesting when looking at his analysis/benchmarks, etc.

That's not why I signed up, however. I'm still watching and rewatching videos and working on getting to implementation which is the main focus and where I see a lot of real potential. Can't really comment on that part yet but getting there and like what I'm learning as I get there.

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#12 drewtaylor21

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:47 PM

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

It showed me that I was being a little too aggressive with longer irons and too conservative inside 150 yards. More than anything, I think it just helps instill confidence. Knowing that a very large percentage of your shot pattern is going to be a decent shot on the green or FW with proper aiming has helped me put more aggressive swings on those targets. I hope that makes sense!

Thanks for re-starting this Q!

Just out of curiosity, I noticed you had a team event recently (congrats BTW!) that involved match play.  Did you ever find yourself playing away from DECADE strategy because of what your opponent did, or do you stick to DECADE because it is the "right" play by the numbers?

Edited by drewtaylor21, 19 May 2017 - 02:51 PM.

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#13 stickner

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:35 AM

I was a Computer Science & Math major back in the day and I work in the Data Science field (advanced statistical analytics and predictive modeling).

I developed a stat tracking approach that delivers an ENORMOUS amount of insight compared to DECADE (that is not at all meant as a slam against DECADE as it is an amazing system!). To get all of that extra info however, you have to provide more data. It really is a simple equation - the more info you provide, the better insights you can achieve. Obviously there is a line in the sand somewhere with the info that is collected (e.g. asking how traffic was on the way to the course, while it may prove to be interesting, it is another piece of info that the golfer would need to provide).

I have been toying around with turning this into a free app.

Truth be told, there isn't much to putting it together. At its core it really is just a straight forward data entry system. The heavy lifting is in the analytics, modeling, and simulations I am doing. The balancing act is collecting as much info as possible without overburdening the golfer.

If I move forward with this, I will be looking for some testers to help get through the alpha/beta stages...

Edited by stickner, 18 May 2017 - 07:36 AM.


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#14 BeautifulNice

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:02 AM

What insights does your system provide that DECADE lacks?
My cleek is sometimes peevish.

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#15 swizbeatz

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:20 PM

Might try this out, I've been struggling on away courses.  My tournament average is probably ~77 and my home index is just on the + side so I'm obviously capable of more.

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#16 Dmax

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:42 PM

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

I have a general rule of thumb for my longer irons.  When i have a 3,4, or 5 iron i shoot for middle of the green regardless of pin location.  When i have 6 or 7 iron i try to work the ball to the proper side of the green somewhat pin high, 8-wedge i'm working the ball to get within 15ft.  That margin shrinks as i get closer to wedge.

Yessir, you have the right idea! I'm very analytical, and it helps me think through my targets and then put a confident swing on the ball. It is all about shifting the center of your shot pattern to get the best results not knowing exactly where ball will finish in your "shotgun."

Posted Image

I think the best part about this is expectation management.  It took me a while to realize that hitting it 25 feet with a wedge from 100yds is about tour average or making par from 200 is slightly better than strokes gained from the tour.  Understanding the shotgun pattern and adjusting expectations leads to a lot less bogies.  I used to think I didn't make enough birdies but again my expectations were not realistic.

Edited by Dmax, 18 May 2017 - 01:43 PM.

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#17 32oinr2

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

I have been looking at DECADE to see how it can help my game.  I'm trying to get a sense of all the information I have to enter in the software.  Does anyone have a screenshot of the data you have to enter into the software?

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#18 timmy8151

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:52 AM

So I signed up for Decade earlier this week and played my first round using the Pinsheet yesterday.  Didn't find it that hard to input data during my round, but I probably need to get a scorecard/yardage book cover to keep my sheet in.

Couple of questions for other users that someone may be able to answer:

1) For the GIR column on a Par 5 when I lay up (which I do 90% of the time) the distance to green do I use the distance from my tee shot or the distance from my layup. I'm pretty sure it's from my layup but might have missed it from my tutorial
2) For the Save column say your approach shot was on the fringe, how are you marking that on the sheet? It's not on the Fairway and it's not on the rough.. also how are people counting putting from the fringe??

I am going to send something to Scott but wanted to know how other users are approaching the above
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#19 Hawkeye77

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:09 PM

View Post32oinr2, on 21 May 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

I have been looking at DECADE to see how it can help my game.  I'm trying to get a sense of all the information I have to enter in the software.  Does anyone have a screenshot of the data you have to enter into the software?

If it's publicly available through some of his videos I guess you should look there. I don't know that it is, so I'm not taking the chance of providing something I really shouldn't. Someone else may have a better handle on that issue.

Oops, found a review that gives you what you wanted. https://practical-go...-scott-fawcett/

Edited by Hawkeye77, 21 May 2017 - 01:13 PM.


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#20 fawley

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:41 AM

Finally got my 5 rounds of data in yesterday (plus 3 or 4 9-hole rounds).  The comparative analysis showed me what I expected - I'm an excellent putter for my level  (6 index and many putting stats are in the -0.3 to +0.59, or >+0.59 categories), but the rest of my game stinks.

I have a couple of questions for more experienced users.

Most proximity and tee categories show "not responsive" in the comparative analysis. Do I just need to enter more data before these categories become functional?

How is the "For you" content pushed?  I was expecting it would be pushed out automatically based on the stats once sufficient data had been entered, but I still haven't seen anything other than a video on making fewer doubles I received about a week ago.

Edited by fawley, 22 May 2017 - 02:59 PM.


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#21 mjen43

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:29 PM

View Postfawley, on 22 May 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

Finally got my 5 rounds of data in yesterday (plus 3 or 4 9-hole rounds).  The comparative analysis showed me what I expected - I'm an accelerant putter for my level  (6 index and many putting stats are in the -0.3 to +0.59, or >+0.59 categories), but the rest of my game stinks.

I have a couple of questions for more experienced users.

Most proximity and tee categories show "not responsive" in the comparative analysis. Do I just need to enter more data before these categories become functional?

How is the "For you" content pushed?  I was expecting it would be pushed out automatically based on the stats once sufficient data had been entered, but I still haven't seen anything other than a video on making fewer doubles I received about a week ago.

I believe the categories that say "not comparative" do so because there is no direct correlation between that stat and scores shot.

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#22 fawley

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:59 PM

View Postmjen43, on 22 May 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:


I believe the categories that say "not comparative" do so because there is no direct correlation between that stat and scores shot.

Thanks.  I thought perhaps it was because my stats for those categories were so bad that there wasn't anyone to compare them too! :)

I just went back and looked at the tutorial video for those categories, and the example there shows "not comparative" in the same fields as I'm seeing on mine.  Interesting that proximity to the hole on approach shots doesn't have a correlation with good scores.

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#23 QMany

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:13 PM

The SPEED DRILL has been very helpful for me. I try to do it twice per week, and then I had a tournament last week where I did it as part of my pre-round warmup. I recommend it if anyone has trouble with speed control, like I did.
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#24 jimmythanut

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 07:54 AM

I ended up purchasing the lite version and while I really really like the videos, there are only about a dozen videos. How many videos are in the elite version?  I also received an email earlier this week about updates that were made which included more videos added and better organization.  However no changes were made to the lite version. I'm trying to justify whether or not it is worth upgrading to the elite version or not. I appreciate any feedback from you guys.

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#25 QMany

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

View Postjimmythanut, on 27 May 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

I ended up purchasing the lite version and while I really really like the videos, there are only about a dozen videos. How many videos are in the elite version?
By my count, about 40 videos not including any new content "For You."

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#26 robrey85

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 09:06 AM

I gotta say, I played my first SNGA tourney on Thursday and used the driving idea that the promo video uses and the holes where I normally used 3w/dr, I used an iron off the tee and I made par on every hole while my competitors were bogey, double and par and on one hole one had a triple, the other had single and double. It was definitely an eye opening experience. I'm most likely gonna sign up for the lite version since invited still in the 80s. Maybe once I start consistently shooting in the 70s, I'll sign up for the elite.
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#27 QMany

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postpingnewbie, on 17 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

How does one go about finding their shotgun pattern?  Does it have to be on Trackman?
I'm going to try to get on TrackMan ASAP to determine my driver pattern. In the meantime, I've been using Scott's 65 yards at 290-300 to plan my tee shot strategy on Google Maps.

I got on TrackMan last night to determine my driver dispersion:

Posted Image
Our range is a little uphill and into the wind, but that is a pretty accurate snapshot of my driver (28X carry, 300 total depending on conditions). Approximately 60-yard dispersion.

I sent Scott a PM with that snapshot, and he had an interesting response:

Quote

That's usually the first thing I find with good players, skewed right 80%+ of the time.

I think this will help planning my tee shots. I was aligned at the 0 baseline and was just trying to hit my normal cut. So the middle of my "shot pattern" is approximately 10 yards right of where I was aligned.

More importantly, I think it will help with expectations:

Scott Fawcett‏ @scottfawcett  14 May 2016
#1 in the world & still 72 yards of width in his shot pattern! You can't play the odds if you don't know the odds.
Posted Image

(Jason Day?)

Edited by QMany, 01 June 2017 - 08:59 AM.

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#28 robrey85

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:00 PM

View PostQMany, on 01 June 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postpingnewbie, on 17 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

How does one go about finding their shotgun pattern?  Does it have to be on Trackman?
I'm going to try to get on TrackMan ASAP to determine my driver pattern. In the meantime, I've been using Scott's 65 yards at 290-300 to plan my tee shot strategy on Google Maps.

I got on TrackMan last night to determine my driver dispersion:

Posted Image
Our range is a little uphill and into the wind, but that is a pretty accurate snapshot of my driver (28X carry, 300 total depending on conditions). Approximately 60-yard dispersion.

I sent Scott a PM with that snapshot, and he had an interesting response:

Quote

That's usually the first thing I find with good players, skewed right 80%+ of the time.

I think this will help planning my tee shots. I was aligned at the 0 baseline and was just trying to hit my normal cut. So the middle of my "shot pattern" is approximately 10 yards right of where I was aligned.

More importantly, I think it will help with expectations:

Scott Fawcett‏ @scottfawcett  14 May 2016
#1 in the world & still 72 yards of width in his shot pattern! You can't play the odds if you don't know the odds.
Posted Image

(Jason Day?)

That's so awesome. I think that's a top of the line baseline to start with and continue to use.

Drew and I were playing on the FS last weekend and my dispersion currently was around 103 left to right with my average being 10 yards to the right. My average carry was 260 and my max carry was 276 (I must get a lot of roll on the golf course). Although my swing is still a WIP, this is a good baseline to start with.

Here's the data Drew extracted for me from FS:
imagejpeg_0.jpg

EDIT: It'll be exciting to see how this will translate to my scores along with everything else I'm doing to improve right now.

Edited by robrey85, 01 June 2017 - 01:01 PM.

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#29 masamitsu

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:08 PM

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

View PostQMany, on 17 May 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Course management is extremely important but your right when you say most better players already do this.  I think if someone is a super aggressive player something like this could help much more then a conservative player who only shoots at flags when there is little risk.

It showed me that I was being a little too aggressive with longer irons and too conservative inside 150 yards. More than anything, I think it just helps instill confidence. Knowing that a very large percentage of your shot pattern is going to be a decent shot on the green or FW with proper aiming has helped me put more aggressive swings on those targets. I hope that makes sense!

I have a general rule of thumb for my longer irons.  When i have a 3,4, or 5 iron i shoot for middle of the green regardless of pin location.  When i have 6 or 7 iron i try to work the ball to the proper side of the green somewhat pin high, 8-wedge i'm working the ball to get within 15ft.  That margin shrinks as i get closer to wedge.

Great idea.  Never thought of it that way and I think I'm going to try this.  thanks!
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#30 robrey85

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 05:12 PM

I ended up using about a 90 yard dispersion after talking with Drew and man! It couldn't have been more spot on. The 17th hole I hit a huge push slice off the tee and had I not had the room to miss, it would have been in the houses, no doubt. But lo and behold, thanks to SCOTTY! (who does in fact know, as quiet as it's kept) it ended up in the 18th fairway, haha.

Anyway, yesterday, drewtaylor21 and I played Rhodes Ranch GC and for the first time I decided to use and stick to the DECADE tee strategy for the entire round. I took the time on Friday to write down my DECADE tee strategy based on the aforementioned data we got off FS and it was interesting to say the least. The clubs that are circle next to their respective holes are what I ended up using due to conditions.

decade.png

Let me first say that it was a constant 20mph today and I'm typically an awful wind player, although I've been improving, using this new strategy was both a positive and a negative.

First the positive: I hit 9/14 fairways nor did I lose a single ball off the tee. Typically I lose one or two, sometimes three off the tee so this was easily worth a few shots.

The negative; although I flubbed a few tee shots, I think two or three four irons and hit a few 5 woods off the toe, plus the wind, my average approach shot was 183.9 yards. A lot of my irons were great with regards to distance control but my start line was left left left left, all day for my approach shots. So I didn't hit squat for greens. I have 2 official GIRs and 3 unofficial (had to pitch out from under a tree).

Some thoughts on what I saw: Drew makes a good point that the average approach would have been closer to 150 or so if I didn't biff those few 4i/5w tee shots, which I do agree and that makes me want to continue trying it but with that said I really didn't feel that I could attack anything with this strategy on the Par 5's yet because on all but one I used a 5w. It's going to be sometime before I get to play more aggressive like a FULL ELITE DECADE player would play because my driving is garbage. Scott definitely makes the higher handicap player play more conservative it seems that in hopes that is iron/short game/putting game can be better. I'm REALLY curious as to how he approaches those and it makes me want to buy it but I have other equipment changes I'm trying to tinker with.

Here's my final scorecard:
decade_scorecard.png

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