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Sandbagging in league play


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#1 Hondabuff

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:59 AM

So I just made birdie on hole 8 to come back down to even par. Knowing that I'm in a points race and tied for 1st place in Flight 1 and tied for 1st place in our overall league out of 68 players I did what you shouldn't do unless money is on the line. I was playing against the ghost to where I just had to shoot my cap which is listed a 3.7hcp and I had the round locked down heading into our easiest finishing hole at even par. I carded a tidy 8 on the last hole "+4" which gave me the lowest net round of the day and didn't bust my cap. 3 of the top 5 guys are straight up sharks and ex-college players and will hustle your cash with their negative caps. One glaring thing on the score sheet is they show negative handicaps and I show close to a 4. We have 17 guys in Flight1 up to 5 handicaps. The bottom 10 will always shoot around 42 or better which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room if you play them straight up and have a bad round. The guys at the top though If I get paired up with them, I play them straight up for bragging rights but have no reservations taking 4 strokes off of them to tip the match and take the points. Technically I'm playing by the rules defined by our league but get to wear the sandbagger crown which I'm fine with because it seems to get into peoples heads. They seem to think that they cant beat you even if they beat you straight up and gets them out of their game. Also keep in mind there is $2500 on the line for the 1st place finisher too. Is this a good strategy or poor sportsmanship?

Edited by Hondabuff, 17 May 2017 - 07:00 AM.

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#2 randytrevor

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:00 AM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

So I just made birdie on hole 8 to come back down to even par. Knowing that I'm in a points race and tied for 1st place in Flight 1 and tied for 1st place in our overall league out of 68 players I did what you shouldn't do unless money is on the line. I was playing against the ghost to where I just had to shoot my cap which is listed a 3.7hcp and I had the round locked down heading into our easiest finishing hole at even par. I carded a tidy 8 on the last hole "+4" which gave me the lowest net round of the day and didn't bust my cap. 3 of the top 5 guys are straight up sharks and ex-college players and will hustle your cash with their negative caps. One glaring thing on the score sheet is they show negative handicaps and I show close to a 4. We have 17 guys in Flight1 up to 5 handicaps. The bottom 10 will always shoot around 42 or better which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room if you play them straight up and have a bad round. The guys at the top though If I get paired up with them, I play them straight up for bragging rights but have no reservations taking 4 strokes off of them to tip the match and take the points. Technically I'm playing by the rules defined by our league but get to wear the sandbagger crown which I'm fine with because it seems to get into peoples heads. They seem to think that they cant beat you even if they beat you straight up and gets them out of their game. Also keep in mind there is $2500 on the line for the 1st place finisher too. Is this a good strategy or poor sportsmanship?

Your tidy "8" on the last hole was intentional to preserve your handicap? Am I understanding correctly??

If so then I say poor sportsmanship!! Play your best and take strokes when you actually deserve them. Don't purposefully play crappy to artificially be given strokes regardless of the competition.

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#3 daveltb

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:04 AM

It's a game and you are playing to win. Do what you have to do inside the rules.

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#4 TPG1971

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:10 AM

Is 2500 dollars worth your integrity?
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#5 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

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#6 suprfli6

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:53 AM

I guess this is why most leagues I've seen don't count more than a double bogey or whatever for handicap purposes, and indeed even the rules of golf wouldn't let you card an 8 since that's above your ESC score right?

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#7 wobgon

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:02 AM

No different than kicking a ball out from behind a tree or sneaking into your opponents house when they are sleeping and stealing money off of their nightstand......Even having to ask this question tells me all I need to know.......Please remove the Penguin logo from your avatar......Gives my team a bad name.

Edited by wobgon, 17 May 2017 - 09:15 AM.


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#8 snoilr1

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:07 AM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Is this a good strategy or poor sportsmanship?

Yes.

If you really don't care about being labeled a sandbagger, you probably wouldn't be asking.
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#9 Mob

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:08 AM

If you scored an 8 on the last hole on purpose, then you are putting money and winning ahead of honesty and integrity.  The rules also prohibit you from posting an 8; the most you can post for that hole is a double bogey, so you are flat out cheating if you posted that score without an adjustment.  Very sad that people even wonder if this is ok; our society is declining rapidly.
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#10 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:35 AM

View PostMob, on 17 May 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

If you scored an 8 on the last hole on purpose, then you are putting money and winning ahead of honesty and integrity.  The rules also prohibit you from posting an 8; the most you can post for that hole is a double bogey, so you are flat out cheating if you posted that score without an adjustment.  Very sad that people even wonder if this is ok; our society is declining rapidly.

I think he has to post the 8 for his tournament/league score, but can only mark a 6 for entering the score in the handicap system.

Either way, still cheating.

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#11 wobgon

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:37 AM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 17 May 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

View PostMob, on 17 May 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

If you scored an 8 on the last hole on purpose, then you are putting money and winning ahead of honesty and integrity.  The rules also prohibit you from posting an 8; the most you can post for that hole is a double bogey, so you are flat out cheating if you posted that score without an adjustment.  Very sad that people even wonder if this is ok; our society is declining rapidly.

I think he has to post the 8 for his tournament/league score, but can only mark a 6 for entering the score in the handicap system.

Either way, still cheating.
Yep.

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#12 Drudersh

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:44 AM

About 6 years ago I was playing in my clubs season long partner match play tournament. We're 3 down with 3 to play on the 16th hole which is a par 3 that measures about 130 yards. We've been getting hammered all day and fighting for our lives in particular against one member of the opposing side who is a "12" handicap yet when we checked our card going into the short par 3 Mr. 12 is only 2 over par on the day. He's obviously just having the round of his life, right? Well Mr. 12's partner hits his tee shot and is safely aboard, at which point he walks over and attempts to discretely whisper something to his partner but does so with the subtlety of a baboons red a**. All of the sudden Mr. 12 inexplicably yanks the short tee shot left into a bunker, chunks two in there, hits the next one over the green and declares himself out of the hole with a triple. I actually make birdie to prolong the match on 16, and on 17 Mr. 12 goes sideways again once his partner (with a stroke in hand) is safely aboard the 17th green. 2nd shot into the woods, chunks the chip out and declares himself out of the hole with another dreadful triple. We play in and on the 18th, low and behold, Mr. 12 takes another triple. You can imagine the shock I was in at his sudden decline.

Fast forward a few years and I have moved and joined another club nearby. I tell this story to a friend of mine without mentioning any names, and he immediately says "Was it Bob Xxxxxxx"? I tell him it was and he laughs. Apparently Mr. 12 had previously been a member at my current club and had a reputation for this kind of behavior, and his reputation now has a tendency to proceed him wherever he goes.

Trust me, you don't want to be Mr. 12.
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#13 cwglum

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:07 AM

Pretty much sums up why I chose to skip league play this year - - once indexes are involved in leagues, someone games the system each week.

Played in a no strokes, all players of similar ability league for years, was great.  No B.S.

As soon as we added indexes and invited more players (e.g. more money in the pot), got worse and worse.

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#14 farmer

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:09 AM

Is cheating a valid strategy?  No.  I don't recall reading a thread where the OP was bragging about being a thief, but you are who you are.

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#15 bigchucksr

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:57 AM

There are some fish that decline to be caught by a 4 "capper" trolling "strategy" and "sportsmanship"!


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#16 f22beaver

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:18 AM

The brazenness of the post is almost shocking.  This is like a unicorn post for every guy/gal that's ever come into this forum complaining about possibly getting beat by a sandbagger/but maybe not and they shot the round of their life.

I'm a very numbers/math/logic based person, but sometimes I do hope there's karma in the world.
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#17 HoffTTM

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:23 PM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

So I just made birdie on hole 8 to come back down to even par. Knowing that I'm in a points race and tied for 1st place in Flight 1 and tied for 1st place in our overall league out of 68 players I did what you shouldn't do unless money is on the line. I was playing against the ghost to where I just had to shoot my cap which is listed a 3.7hcp and I had the round locked down heading into our easiest finishing hole at even par. I carded a tidy 8 on the last hole "+4" which gave me the lowest net round of the day and didn't bust my cap. 3 of the top 5 guys are straight up sharks and ex-college players and will hustle your cash with their negative caps. One glaring thing on the score sheet is they show negative handicaps and I show close to a 4. We have 17 guys in Flight1 up to 5 handicaps. The bottom 10 will always shoot around 42 or better which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room if you play them straight up and have a bad round. The guys at the top though If I get paired up with them, I play them straight up for bragging rights but have no reservations taking 4 strokes off of them to tip the match and take the points. Technically I'm playing by the rules defined by our league but get to wear the sandbagger crown which I'm fine with because it seems to get into peoples heads. They seem to think that they cant beat you even if they beat you straight up and gets them out of their game. Also keep in mind there is $2500 on the line for the 1st place finisher too. Is this a good strategy or poor sportsmanship?
Thats a lot of words for "I am a cheating skidmark who enjoys conning my so called buddies out of money", watch what happens when people figure you out.
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#18 Hondabuff

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:33 PM

Well I was casually told last year If I didn't figure out how to play the system that I will never be able to contend. Our past 5 club champions came out of Flight 3 and the current holds a 8.4 hcp. Our system takes the last 10 low rounds to calculate your handicap so the Hack it down the fairway and 4 putt an 8 counts. In July when the mid year playoffs start its the whole league who enters and an its a pick from a hat number system. I got dusted in the first round last year to a 9 cap who shot a 39 to my 37 and I had to give him 7 strokes since I was playing as a 2 cap. I was lout before I started. Our system even has you playing a ghost every few weeks where you have to shoot your cap or better. 2 points if you show up, Shoot your cap you get another 2, beat your cap you get 4 for a max point value of 8. I was told to pace myself this year and if you want to shoot your career best go ahead but you will never compete in the playoff system for the money. Its a odd situation to be in since I always played for low scores from HS golf to college golf. League play is a whole different animal and this isn't NCAA rules. This back room of the bar pool sharking.

Edited by Hondabuff, 17 May 2017 - 12:41 PM.

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#19 KyGolf

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:40 PM

This is why I only play gross events.

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#20 wobgon

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:41 PM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Well I was casually told last year If I didn't figure out how to play the system that I will never be able to contend. Our past 5 club champions came out of Flight 3 and the current holds a 8.4 hcp. Our system takes the last 10 low rounds to calculate your handicap so the Hack it down the fairway and 4 putt an 8 counts. In July when the mid year playoffs start its the whole league who enters and an its a pick from a hat number system. I got dusted in the first round last year to a 9 cap who shot a 39 to my 37 and I had to give him 7 strokes since I was playing as a 2 cap. Our system even has you playing a ghost every few weeks where you have to shoot your cap or better. 2 points if you show up, Shoot your cap you get another 2, beat your cap you get 4 for a max point value of 8. I was told to pace myself this year and if you want to shoot your career best go ahead but you will never compete in the playoff system for the money. Its a odd situation to be in since I always played for low scores from HS golf to college golf. League play is a whole different animal.
So what you are saying is, since there are a bunch of thieves in the league, it is Ok for you to be a thief also.......You should be very proud if you win the league.....I doubt that you would even buy anyone a drink. I doubt that anyone would want to drink it with you if you did.


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#21 eagle1997

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:45 PM

guys like you are the WORST.  i hope you choke on that $2.5K, loser.
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#22 tatertot

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:46 PM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Well I was casually told last year If I didn't figure out how to play the system that I will never be able to contend. Our past 5 club champions came out of Flight 3 and the current holds a 8.4 hcp. Our system takes the last 10 low rounds to calculate your handicap so the Hack it down the fairway and 4 putt an 8 counts. In July when the mid year playoffs start its the whole league who enters and an its a pick from a hat number system. I got dusted in the first round last year to a 9 cap who shot a 39 to my 37 and I had to give him 7 strokes since I was playing as a 2 cap. I was lout before I started. Our system even has you playing a ghost every few weeks where you have to shoot your cap or better. 2 points if you show up, Shoot your cap you get another 2, beat your cap you get 4 for a max point value of 8. I was told to pace myself this year and if you want to shoot your career best go ahead but you will never compete in the playoff system for the money. Its a odd situation to be in since I always played for low scores from HS golf to college golf. League play is a whole different animal and this isn't NCAA rules. This back room of the bar pool sharking.

Well congrats, now you're one of the cheaters that nobody wants to play with. Good luck.
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#23 Mr. Herbert

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:53 PM

Well, you are a Penguins fan, so this type of behavior is probably second nature.

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#24 Hondabuff

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:01 PM

Lol, You guys are the greatest! I have been battling my conscience with this. My old league was straight up stroke play and seemed pretty fair. This current league is a match play point system based and stacked with good players. But that's where the similarities end. These are the high rollers  of the community and a 3 year wait list to get into this league. Any connection you want to make between Dr's, lawyers, major business owner, sports agents to our major teams. These guys are side betting the cost of my clubs on some of the rounds. So do I continue to sell my soul dancing with the devils? or go back to my old league. The league is actually a lot of fun and the Social contacts are the whos who of the area. It was a high buy in and its a large payout per flight.

Edited by Hondabuff, 17 May 2017 - 01:24 PM.

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#25 farmer

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:40 PM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Lol, You guys are the greatest! I have been battling my conscience with this. My old league was straight up stroke play and seemed pretty fair. This current league is a match play point system based and stacked with good players. But that's where the similarities end. These are the high rollers  of the community and a 3 year wait list to get into this league. Any connection you want to make between Dr's, lawyers, major business owner, sports agents to our major teams. These guys are side betting the cost of my clubs on some of the rounds. So do I continue to sell my soul dancing with the devils? or go back to my old league. The league is actually a lot of fun and the Social contacts are the whos who of the area. It was a high buy in and its a large payout per flight.
Take advantage, if you will, of the social contacts, network all you are allowed ..... but don't lie, cheat and steal.


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#26 Hondabuff

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:27 PM

View Postfarmer, on 17 May 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Lol, You guys are the greatest! I have been battling my conscience with this. My old league was straight up stroke play and seemed pretty fair. This current league is a match play point system based and stacked with good players. But that's where the similarities end. These are the high rollers  of the community and a 3 year wait list to get into this league. Any connection you want to make between Dr's, lawyers, major business owner, sports agents to our major teams. These guys are side betting the cost of my clubs on some of the rounds. So do I continue to sell my soul dancing with the devils? or go back to my old league. The league is actually a lot of fun and the Social contacts are the whos who of the area. It was a high buy in and its a large payout per flight.
Take advantage, if you will, of the social contacts, network all you are allowed ..... but don't lie, cheat and steal.

Good Advice,
The two guys who I frequently play with are our 2 ex D1 players in the league and we have had conversations about managing your handicap. We have played straight up stroke play before without giving any strokes. I have been close to beating them before but always best me by a stroke here or there. The other guys are complete strangers and you don't know them and they don't know you and you don't even have to play with them during the round. My old league you had 10 flights of 4 guys ranked 1-4. Each week you were paired with one of your guys of the team and pitted against your respective person from the other flight you were playing. One played one and two played two and so on. Straight stroke play head to head. Low budget course and low budget money. New league is all about the money and who is going to get it per flight and overall. These guys seem like they picked their handicap and added 4 to it. So even the scratch guys cant beat the 8 caps because it gives so much advantage to the higher handicap guys. Easier for an 8 cap to shave 2 strokes vs the scratch guy shooting a 33-34.
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#27 Drudersh

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:33 PM

View Postwobgon, on 17 May 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

No different than kicking a ball out from behind a tree or sneaking into your opponents house when they are sleeping and stealing money off of their nightstand......Even having to ask this question tells me all I need to know.......Please remove the Penguin logo from your avatar......Gives my team a bad name.

OP is further proof that Yinzer's can't be trusted.

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#28 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:22 PM

Sounds like your league needs a handicap committee.
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#29 golfdad907

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:49 PM

So this is exactly why I don't/won't play in 'leagues' anymore...even the better players sandbag.  I don't/won't 'bag' so not much point in wasting time knowing I'm going to get pencil whipped in one form or another.
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#30 Forged4ever

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:53 PM

View PostHondabuff, on 17 May 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Is this a good strategy OR POOR SPORTSMANSHIP?
As my Teacher would say, if ya gotta ask the question, you know the answer-

This is why we only Play in Scratch Swats, though you can get into the cap Swats however you and the college boys wouldn't last the month in those.

Enough has been said so I'm gonna bow out however if you don't mind me asking, where do you play out of?

Regards,
RP

Edited by Forged4ever, 17 May 2017 - 06:54 PM.

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