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MDLT Thoughts On Using The Arms


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#151 birly-shirly

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:58 PM

I think the book is a great place to start. Like anything, there must be limitations in transferring a teaching practice into a static written form, but juststeve has extensive first hand experience of Manuels teaching and what's in the book seems very authentic to what Manuel taught in person.


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#152 juststeve

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:02 PM

Places to learn:

1. Manny's Book.

2.  Manny's instruction video of you're a visual learner.

3.  John Hayes' book, Learning Golf With Manuel.

4.  Hayes's website has a link to a clinic instructed by Manny 25 or so years ago. A good watch.

5.  Manny's website has links to instructors who teach his method in various regions of the country.

Choose one or all but stick to Manny's method, even if it seems too simple to be correct.  Once you learn to do what Manny said to do, you will know it's correct.

Steve

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#153 braveheart

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:11 PM

Thanks guys

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#154 AlexCzervic

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:45 PM

View Postjuststeve, on 12 May 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

On other threads I have noticed that some have difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club forward with the arms, or to actually do it.  I hope my thoughts on thew subject will assist at least some of you.

An Observation.  Most everyone is able to move the club from over their trail shoulder to over their lead shoulder in the course of making a swing.  If you are doing that YOU ARE ALREADY SWINGING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS.  If you don't believe me do an experiment.  Swing the club back over your trail shoulder, and then try to get the club over your leads shoulder without moving your arms.  You can't do it.  You can't move the club from over one shoulder to over the other with your hands, your wrists, your shoulders or your hips.  You are already moving the club with your arms.  You just need to keep that while eliminating things that aren't your arms.

Start with you hands.  Their function is merely to hold the club in the forward swing.  Starting with little swings and working up, eliminate any hint of independent hand action.  If you begin to feels your hands doing anything except holding the club, back off to shorter swings until your hands are passive, just holding the club.

Next focus on your wrists,  The hinge on the back swing and unhinge in the forward swing but they do so passively, as a result of gravity and the momentum of the swing.  Again work up from little to big swings allowing the hinging and unhinging to be purely a response.  No effort to snap the wrists, no effort to apply additional speed with the wrist, no tension, just swing the club from one side to the other and let the wrists react.

Eliminate interference from the forearms.  Your trail arm will extend through the shot, but it is a reaction to the speed of the arms.  Eliminate any hint of muscular effort to extend the trail arm, trust thew swinging motion to do it automatically.

The same notion applies to eliminating interference from  the shoulder, the hips, the weight shift,  etc.  When you are in fact moving the club from one side to the other, without allowing other body parts to interfere, you will be swinging the club forward with your arms, just as Manny taught.

Steve

I bet you have poor rotation and shoulder turn. My arms are trapped between my hands and shoulders and do what my hands ask them to do, very little. Arms are propelled by pivot in DS if you know how to make a BS. Stay in posture, do what your hands tell you...........piece of cake.

AX

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#155 ricklinens

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:20 PM

View PostAlexCzervic, on 17 June 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

..........piece of cake.

Many styles of cake, carrot cake, angel food cake, banana cake, cheese cake, or you may prefer cupcake.  In the end, just cakes.

The less you put in, the more you take out.

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#156 Hilts1969

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 01:26 PM

Just ordered the 2014 edition of his book today. I shall report my great progress in due course

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#157 SenorDiez

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 10:16 PM

Hello WRX, long time lurker here, and stoked to make my debut in this thread.

A quick question for Steve, and I apologize if this has been addressed previously and I missed it. Does MDLT's method have a specific way of working the ball if necessary, or is it simple (like everything else!) and just making a change to target line and face angle at address?

This thread and the YouTube content I've viewed have been a lifesaver for my golf game. Steve, I truly appreciate your contributions!

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#158 juststeve

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:41 AM

View PostSenorDiez, on 18 June 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

Hello WRX, long time lurker here, and stoked to make my debut in this thread.

A quick question for Steve, and I apologize if this has been addressed previously and I missed it. Does MDLT's method have a specific way of working the ball if necessary, or is it simple (like everything else!) and just making a change to target line and face angle at address?

This thread and the YouTube content I've viewed have been a lifesaver for my golf game. Steve, I truly appreciate your contributions!

I align my body to the desired starting path and the club face to where I want the ball to finish. Then I swing the club along my body lines.  An old pre-Trackman method that still works.

Steve

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#159 juststeve

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:47 AM

View PostAlexCzervic, on 17 June 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

View Postjuststeve, on 12 May 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

On other threads I have noticed that some have difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club forward with the arms, or to actually do it.  I hope my thoughts on thew subject will assist at least some of you.

An Observation.  Most everyone is able to move the club from over their trail shoulder to over their lead shoulder in the course of making a swing.  If you are doing that YOU ARE ALREADY SWINGING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS.  If you don't believe me do an experiment.  Swing the club back over your trail shoulder, and then try to get the club over your leads shoulder without moving your arms.  You can't do it.  You can't move the club from over one shoulder to over the other with your hands, your wrists, your shoulders or your hips.  You are already moving the club with your arms.  You just need to keep that while eliminating things that aren't your arms.

Start with you hands.  Their function is merely to hold the club in the forward swing.  Starting with little swings and working up, eliminate any hint of independent hand action.  If you begin to feels your hands doing anything except holding the club, back off to shorter swings until your hands are passive, just holding the club.

Next focus on your wrists,  The hinge on the back swing and unhinge in the forward swing but they do so passively, as a result of gravity and the momentum of the swing.  Again work up from little to big swings allowing the hinging and unhinging to be purely a response.  No effort to snap the wrists, no effort to apply additional speed with the wrist, no tension, just swing the club from one side to the other and let the wrists react.

Eliminate interference from the forearms.  Your trail arm will extend through the shot, but it is a reaction to the speed of the arms.  Eliminate any hint of muscular effort to extend the trail arm, trust thew swinging motion to do it automatically.

The same notion applies to eliminating interference from  the shoulder, the hips, the weight shift,  etc.  When you are in fact moving the club from one side to the other, without allowing other body parts to interfere, you will be swinging the club forward with your arms, just as Manny taught.

Steve

I bet you have poor rotation and shoulder turn. My arms are trapped between my hands and shoulders and do what my hands ask them to do, very little. Arms are propelled by pivot in DS if you know how to make a BS. Stay in posture, do what your hands tell you...........piece of cake.

AX

Alex:

You would lose your bet.  Check out the video attached to post number 108 of this thread and tell me what's wrong with the rotation and shoulder turn of that nearly 70 year old man.

Steve

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#160 Hilts1969

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:27 PM

Just finished reading the book and like the simplicity but I was wondering about the backswing movement and it's importance regarding getting the clubhead over the trail shoulder using both hands.  I find thinking about the hands to the top then switching to the arms only whilst swinging the entire club to the target whilst being tension free a bit too much.

What would be the disadvantage of swinging the whole club over my trail shoulder and then swing the whole club to target using my arms only. Has anyone else found concentrating on clubhead and hands then changing to arms and the whole club a bit harder to do than it sounds?



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#161 ricklinens

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

View PostHilts1969, on 29 June 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

Just finished reading the book and like the simplicity but I was wondering about the backswing movement and it's importance regarding getting the clubhead over the trail shoulder using both hands.  I find thinking about the hands to the top then switching to the arms only whilst swinging the entire club to the target whilst being tension free a bit too much.

What would be the disadvantage of swinging the whole club over my trail shoulder and then swing the whole club to target using my arms only. Has anyone else found concentrating on clubhead and hands then changing to arms and the whole club a bit harder to do than it sounds?

No disadvantage at all, go for it.  You are probably sequencing it correctly anyway.  Imagine a milk pail filled with confetti.  Place a hand on each side of the pail and from the address position toss the confetti over your trail shoulder toward your goal.
The less you put in, the more you take out.

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#162 juststeve

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 04:26 PM

View PostHilts1969, on 29 June 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

Just finished reading the book and like the simplicity but I was wondering about the backswing movement and it's importance regarding getting the clubhead over the trail shoulder using both hands.  I find thinking about the hands to the top then switching to the arms only whilst swinging the entire club to the target whilst being tension free a bit too much.

What would be the disadvantage of swinging the whole club over my trail shoulder and then swing the whole club to target using my arms only. Has anyone else found concentrating on clubhead and hands then changing to arms and the whole club a bit harder to do than it sounds?

In my experience it makes a big difference.  Use my hands to swing the club over my trail shoulder and I am centered over the ball and well coiled.  Use my arms to swing the club back and it moves me off the ball and makes the coil slack.  Many other people who have tried to follow the method have the same experience.  Your mileage may vary but Manny had a specific reason for saying to use the hands.

Steve

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#163 Deadaimz

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 05:28 PM

So Manuel wants the club to point at the center of the body. What about the ball? Can it vary in its position or should it be at the same point every time; if so in relation to what?

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#164 juststeve

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:28 AM

View PostDeadaimz, on 29 June 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

So Manuel wants the club to point at the center of the body. What about the ball? Can it vary in its position or should it be at the same point every time; if so in relation to what?

If you had asked Manny what is it that separates good golfers from not so good golfers, he would tell you the number one thing is consistency.  For that reason his swing model is designed first and foremost to produce consistency.  In line with this we address all of our regular full shots, no matter what club we are using, with the club head in the center of the stance, and the ball to the target side of the club head.    If you are aligned in balance with the target, just putting the club head down in the center of your stance will mean that the butt of the club is pointing to the center of your body, or very close to it.

Placing the club head in the center of the stance, for all clubs, is contrary to what most people teach.  It has advantages that should be considered.  1)  By placing he club head in the center of our stance our shoulders remain properly aligned.  2)  Placing the club head in the center of our stance makes it natural to take the club back on a circle away from the target.  3)  Starting with the club head in the center of out stance gives us the best chance of returning the club to the ball square to the target and moving toward the target, without conscious manipulation.

I myself have varied from the model and found that moving the driver forward allows me to hit the ball further at the cost of accuracy and consistency.  To me it was not a good trade off and I adhere to Manny's model today.

Steve

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#165 Deadaimz

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:03 PM

Steve thanks for the clarification. Do you use a higher degree driver with this set-up? Thanks for your reply Steve.


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#166 Hilts1969

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:07 PM

View Postjuststeve, on 29 June 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostHilts1969, on 29 June 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

Just finished reading the book and like the simplicity but I was wondering about the backswing movement and it's importance regarding getting the clubhead over the trail shoulder using both hands.  I find thinking about the hands to the top then switching to the arms only whilst swinging the entire club to the target whilst being tension free a bit too much.

What would be the disadvantage of swinging the whole club over my trail shoulder and then swing the whole club to target using my arms only. Has anyone else found concentrating on clubhead and hands then changing to arms and the whole club a bit harder to do than it sounds?

In my experience it makes a big difference.  Use my hands to swing the club over my trail shoulder and I am centered over the ball and well coiled.  Use my arms to swing the club back and it moves me off the ball and makes the coil slack.  Many other people who have tried to follow the method have the same experience.  Your mileage may vary but Manny had a specific reason for saying to use the hands.

Steve

I was thinking more in terms of whole club over trail shoulder rather than clubhead I think I use my hands for this part anyhow.. it just seems easier for me to be aware of the whole club throughout the swing. I sometimes go at the ball with the clubhead if it's in my mind or have to pause to make sure I'm doing the through swing with arms thinking of the club as one unit.

Edited by Hilts1969, 30 June 2017 - 01:23 PM.


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#167 Hilts1969

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:22 PM

View PostDeadaimz, on 30 June 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

Steve thanks for the clarification. Do you use a higher degree driver with this set-up? Thanks for your reply Steve.

I think tee height as well as loft plays a part, when I was struggling with a push slice last year before I looked into mdlt I would put the driver head pretty central in my stance but tee the ball up further forward. In my stance. This straightened me out very well.  

At the moment I play 12 degree loft with the driver and tee it up just over an inch with a small gap between the head and the ball. I have no thoughts on the ball at all when I swing just club to target. It makes sense to me that the loft and how you tee it up effects where in the arc you want the ball to be.

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#168 juststeve

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

View PostDeadaimz, on 30 June 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

Steve thanks for the clarification. Do you use a higher degree driver with this set-up? Thanks for your reply Steve.

10.5 degrees.

Steve

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#169 Stanley John

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 05:47 AM

View Postjuststeve, on 22 May 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostMikeG, on 21 May 2017 - 10:57 PM, said:

View Postjuststeve, on 12 May 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

On other threads I have noticed that some have difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club forward with the arms, or to actually do it.  I hope my thoughts on thew subject will assist at least some of you.

An Observation.  Most everyone is able to move the club from over their trail shoulder to over their lead shoulder in the course of making a swing.  If you are doing that YOU ARE ALREADY SWINGING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS.  If you don't believe me do an experiment.  Swing the club back over your trail shoulder, and then try to get the club over your leads shoulder without moving your arms.  You can't do it.  You can't move the club from over one shoulder to over the other with your hands, your wrists, your shoulders or your hips.  You are already moving the club with your arms.  You just need to keep that while eliminating things that aren't your arms.

Start with you hands.  Their function is merely to hold the club in the forward swing.  Starting with little swings and working up, eliminate any hint of independent hand action.  If you begin to feels your hands doing anything except holding the club, back off to shorter swings until your hands are passive, just holding the club.

Next focus on your wrists,  The hinge on the back swing and unhinge in the forward swing but they do so passively, as a result of gravity and the momentum of the swing.  Again work up from little to big swings allowing the hinging and unhinging to be purely a response.  No effort to snap the wrists, no effort to apply additional speed with the wrist, no tension, just swing the club from one side to the other and let the wrists react.

Eliminate interference from the forearms.  Your trail arm will extend through the shot, but it is a reaction to the speed of the arms.  Eliminate any hint of muscular effort to extend the trail arm, trust thew swinging motion to do it automatically.

The same notion applies to eliminating interference from  the shoulder, the hips, the weight shift,  etc.  When you are in fact moving the club from one side to the other, without allowing other body parts to interfere, you will be swinging the club forward with your arms, just as Manny taught.

Steve

Great summary Steve. The thing that always threw me off with the MDLT swing was the hands leading the backswing and the upper arms leading the forward swing. That transition always messed me up. Be that as it may, good job on the recap.

The original post was for guys like you, people having difficulty isolating the arms and swinging with them.  Unfortunately words are a poor vehicle for transmitting what it means to swing the club with the arms.  When Manny gave lessons he would put his hand on the students club. tell the student to relax, and then move the club back and forth in a swinging motion.  Soon the student is able to identify the proper motion and practice replicating it.  Being able to play the game is ultimately dependent on swinging consistently and to do that  that you need to know what it feels like.  Unless you can find an instructor of the method, you will need to find the feeling on the range.

Steve

Steve,
I've been learning Manuel's method for almost 2 years now, and have experienced very good results. However, I still struggle with coming OTT (spinning my shoulders) and not "leaving it alone" (that is, I unintentionally use my hands).  Doing Manuel's OTT drill and reminding myself to swing freely without tension is very helpful.  In Manuel's DVD, disc 1, in the grip section, he mentions he has known some good players who use a split grip. I tried this grip recently and, it seems to me, that it helps in isolating the arms to swing the whole club in one uninterrupted motion in the direction of the target. That grip seems to promote proper club movement and good ball striking.
I was interested in knowing your opinion, pros & cons and the like of the split grip.  Did Manuel ever use it as a drill in his teaching?
Thanks, you posts have been very helpful.

19

#170 juststeve

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:24 AM

View PostStanley John, on 01 July 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

View Postjuststeve, on 22 May 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostMikeG, on 21 May 2017 - 10:57 PM, said:

View Postjuststeve, on 12 May 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

On other threads I have noticed that some have difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club forward with the arms, or to actually do it.  I hope my thoughts on thew subject will assist at least some of you.

An Observation.  Most everyone is able to move the club from over their trail shoulder to over their lead shoulder in the course of making a swing.  If you are doing that YOU ARE ALREADY SWINGING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS.  If you don't believe me do an experiment.  Swing the club back over your trail shoulder, and then try to get the club over your leads shoulder without moving your arms.  You can't do it.  You can't move the club from over one shoulder to over the other with your hands, your wrists, your shoulders or your hips.  You are already moving the club with your arms.  You just need to keep that while eliminating things that aren't your arms.

Start with you hands.  Their function is merely to hold the club in the forward swing.  Starting with little swings and working up, eliminate any hint of independent hand action.  If you begin to feels your hands doing anything except holding the club, back off to shorter swings until your hands are passive, just holding the club.

Next focus on your wrists,  The hinge on the back swing and unhinge in the forward swing but they do so passively, as a result of gravity and the momentum of the swing.  Again work up from little to big swings allowing the hinging and unhinging to be purely a response.  No effort to snap the wrists, no effort to apply additional speed with the wrist, no tension, just swing the club from one side to the other and let the wrists react.

Eliminate interference from the forearms.  Your trail arm will extend through the shot, but it is a reaction to the speed of the arms.  Eliminate any hint of muscular effort to extend the trail arm, trust thew swinging motion to do it automatically.

The same notion applies to eliminating interference from  the shoulder, the hips, the weight shift,  etc.  When you are in fact moving the club from one side to the other, without allowing other body parts to interfere, you will be swinging the club forward with your arms, just as Manny taught.

Steve

Great summary Steve. The thing that always threw me off with the MDLT swing was the hands leading the backswing and the upper arms leading the forward swing. That transition always messed me up. Be that as it may, good job on the recap.

The original post was for guys like you, people having difficulty isolating the arms and swinging with them.  Unfortunately words are a poor vehicle for transmitting what it means to swing the club with the arms.  When Manny gave lessons he would put his hand on the students club. tell the student to relax, and then move the club back and forth in a swinging motion.  Soon the student is able to identify the proper motion and practice replicating it.  Being able to play the game is ultimately dependent on swinging consistently and to do that  that you need to know what it feels like.  Unless you can find an instructor of the method, you will need to find the feeling on the range.

Steve

Steve,
I've been learning Manuel's method for almost 2 years now, and have experienced very good results. However, I still struggle with coming OTT (spinning my shoulders) and not "leaving it alone" (that is, I unintentionally use my hands).  Doing Manuel's OTT drill and reminding myself to swing freely without tension is very helpful.  In Manuel's DVD, disc 1, in the grip section, he mentions he has known some good players who use a split grip. I tried this grip recently and, it seems to me, that it helps in isolating the arms to swing the whole club in one uninterrupted motion in the direction of the target. That grip seems to promote proper club movement and good ball striking.
I was interested in knowing your opinion, pros & cons and the like of the split grip.  Did Manuel ever use it as a drill in his teaching?
Thanks, you posts have been very helpful.

Stanley:

I've never seen the DVD you're speaking about, nor did I ever see Manny recommend a split grip.  I did hit a few balls that way this past weekend and it surely allows one to feel what it is like to swing the whole club forward, not just the club head.

As to the OTT move, it will take time but you just need to concentrate on the arms swinging the club forward and the shoulders just responding.  Once you body has become active as opposed to reactive it takes time to keep it from interfering with the swing.  .  

Steve


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#171 Hilts1969

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:29 AM

First go on the range after reading the book and was impressed with my irons but struggled with woods especially driver although I didn't hit many shots with them.

Grip change was good pinky of right hand now sits on top of index finger of left, much easier to keep hands tension free. Have a habit of letting the club move a little at set up as left hand feels more in the palm than usual.

No problems with weight staying equal, v's and club pointing to.centre even with 5 iron which is the longest iron in bag. The pre shot routine led to very consistent dispersion only s couple of pulls and 3/4 pushes out of 85,balls. Finished off with 30 balls to the 145 flag with a 9 iron all but 3 hit the green within 20 feet of the flag. The 3 that missed I felt I lost the feel of the whole club with the arms(think i felt throwing the whole club with the hands)

The feeling of using the arms seems similar to keeping elbows together not sure if that is something MDLT followers also feel?

May just concentrate on irons only next time my balance seems off with the woods, feels like I need to rush the swinging of the club like I'm hitting not swinging even though my intentions are the same.

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#172 juststeve

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:12 PM

Make your driver swing as much like your five iron swing as you can.  Same rhythm, same level of effort, just leave it to the longer shaft to give you the extra club head speed you want with the driver.

Steve

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#173 AJ Joseph

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:54 PM

Im just amazed that people think the club  or clubhead moves in a circle
Ive never seen a video where this happens. Its not even close

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#174 Hilts1969

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:36 AM

Who said it does?

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#175 Stanley John

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:08 AM

View Postjuststeve, on 12 May 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

On other threads I have noticed that some have difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club forward with the arms, or to actually do it.  I hope my thoughts on thew subject will assist at least some of you.

An Observation.  Most everyone is able to move the club from over their trail shoulder to over their lead shoulder in the course of making a swing.  If you are doing that YOU ARE ALREADY SWINGING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS.  If you don't believe me do an experiment.  Swing the club back over your trail shoulder, and then try to get the club over your leads shoulder without moving your arms.  You can't do it.  You can't move the club from over one shoulder to over the other with your hands, your wrists, your shoulders or your hips.  You are already moving the club with your arms.  You just need to keep that while eliminating things that aren't your arms.

Start with you hands.  Their function is merely to hold the club in the forward swing.  Starting with little swings and working up, eliminate any hint of independent hand action.  If you begin to feels your hands doing anything except holding the club, back off to shorter swings until your hands are passive, just holding the club.

Next focus on your wrists,  The hinge on the back swing and unhinge in the forward swing but they do so passively, as a result of gravity and the momentum of the swing.  Again work up from little to big swings allowing the hinging and unhinging to be purely a response.  No effort to snap the wrists, no effort to apply additional speed with the wrist, no tension, just swing the club from one side to the other and let the wrists react.

Eliminate interference from the forearms.  Your trail arm will extend through the shot, but it is a reaction to the speed of the arms.  Eliminate any hint of muscular effort to extend the trail arm, trust thew swinging motion to do it automatically.

The same notion applies to eliminating interference from  the shoulder, the hips, the weight shift,  etc.  When you are in fact moving the club from one side to the other, without allowing other body parts to interfere, you will be swinging the club forward with your arms, just as Manny taught.

Steve

Very insightful. As MDLT states on p. 52: "Hand action in the forward swing is the cause of more than 90% of all missed shots."
On many shots my devilish hands always seem to find a way to sabotage my swinging motion.  They are like unruly child.  Ugh!
I will take your advise on working up from little to big swings thinking "passive unhinging".  Thanks.


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#176 Stanley John

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:16 AM

Hits and AJ,

Please see: https://www.youtube....h?v=RhbEX82SoKI

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#177 birly-shirly

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:23 AM

View PostAJ Joseph, on 03 July 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Im just amazed that people think the club  or clubhead moves in a circle
Ive never seen a video where this happens. Its not even close

Attached Thumbnails

  • Jorg strobe.jpg


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#178 Patrick_O

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 06:40 AM

View Postbirly-shirly, on 04 July 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

View PostAJ Joseph, on 03 July 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Im just amazed that people think the club  or clubhead moves in a circle
Ive never seen a video where this happens. Its not even close
True if camera view is horizontal, closer to a circle if camera view is perpendicular to swing plane.
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#179 gusano

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

View PostPatrick_O, on 04 July 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

View Postbirly-shirly, on 04 July 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

View PostAJ Joseph, on 03 July 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Im just amazed that people think the club  or clubhead moves in a circle
Ive never seen a video where this happens. Its not even close
True if camera view is horizontal, closer to a circle if camera view is perpendicular to swing plane.

Kinda' true in all ways, depending upon one's viewpoint. I mean, the swing is kind of a curlicue shape, but the overall shape does somewhat resemble a circle when the picture plane is parallel with the swing plane. Seems more elliptical when viewed from the ground. I guess that's what Manny was saying in his book. Hard to say for sure.

Interesting how the swing center seems not to be in the center. And how the radius extends and contracts. Unfolds and collapses?

Animation below compares the exact same geometry when viewed dead on and when viewed at 49 degrees.

Posted Image

Edited by gusano, 04 July 2017 - 11:18 AM.


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#180 AJ Joseph

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:33 PM

The hands and arms should move in a circle
Clubhead never because of shaft angle
Down the line videos prove it every time


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