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Interesting rules violation@ local Uskids tournament


75 replies to this topic

#61 2bGood

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

 kekoa, on 22 May 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

Sorry to dwell on the rules infraction, but I still dont think that accidentally riding in a cart during a hole is worthy of two strokes.  It also stings more given that a 'friend' so willingly called us out.

The thing about golf is there are lots of big penalties for little infractions : brush a  grain of sand in the hazard, be OB by 1/4 inch, cause the ball to move an 1/8", ride in a cart etc. It is part of the game and you either respect the rules or you don't. I will still say the friend did you a favour by letting you and others know about the infraction as it would have been terrible to win unjustly and then have this hanging over your son and you.

 kekoa, on 22 May 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:


I guess it's water under the bridge since my son was able to fire a 31 (-5) today to capture the tour championship by half a point.  He shot the same score as a 6 year old, but this is his best in the 7's.

Congratulations! Looks like a happy guy and you must be a proud pop.


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#62 heavy_hitter

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:07 AM

Two girls at NCAA finals received two stroke penalties for riding in a golf cart to the bathroom.

https://www.google.c...room?source=dam

If it's a rule, then it's a rule whether you agree with it or not.

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#63 Noles

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:46 AM

 RedWolfWay, on 11 May 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Rules are rules. That said, pretty poor that a "friend" in competition calls this to attention after he has been defeated by a shot to result in a win for him. Sour taste there...
Absolutely not.  The player pointed it out when it happened and shame on the person who committed the infraction for not bringing it up themselves at the scorers table.

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#64 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:11 PM

Part of the allure for many parents to get their kids into golf is the fact that the kids are taught to follow the rules and call penalties on themselves; to treat others with respect and to be good sports. Its how we teach our children to have integrity and how to be good people.

If we say that an infraction (no matter how small) is no big deal in front of our children, we are showing them that its okay to break some of the rules when we see fit. I'm sure that's not what the OP really wants.

It doesn't matter if an infraction is an accident or blatant disregard, its still an infraction. If we don't enforce all the rules then why enforce any? Why should some get to pick and choose and others are held strictly accountable?

Children learn far more from what we show them (what they see us do) than what we tell them.
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#65 Noles

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:55 PM

 Hot Rod 71, on 23 May 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

Part of the allure for many parents to get their kids into golf is the fact that the kids are taught to follow the rules and call penalties on themselves; to treat others with respect and to be good sports. Its how we teach our children to have integrity and how to be good people.

If we say that an infraction (no matter how small) is no big deal in front of our children, we are showing them that its okay to break some of the rules when we see fit. I'm sure that's not what the OP really wants.

It doesn't matter if an infraction is an accident or blatant disregard, its still an infraction. If we don't enforce all the rules then why enforce any? Why should some get to pick and choose and others are held strictly accountable?

Children learn far more from what we show them (what they see us do) than what we tell them.
100% spot on!


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#66 busapp

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 01:16 AM

Hi Golfer Dad,  

It is great that you are supporting your son through the USkids organization.  You and he will have many opportunities for deep and thorough personal relationship that can be found in no other sport.  My son is now 12 and we have been through many junior golf tournaments, including USkids.  

The error was your error.  As a caddy in USkids one of your main jobs is to learn the rules.  He has to learn to hit the ball.  You need to learn the rules.  Your second main job is nutritionist.  Especially when he graduates to become an 18 holer you need to teach him how to properly hydrate, eat proper snacks, put on sun block, wear proper clothes, and other things that seem superficial.  But when you play in tournaments and when you play 18 holes these things become very important.

When you became livid you really screwed up.  You should be mature and help your son realize that you have to take your licks when you make a mistake.  You move on to the next hole and the next tournament. Another example is hitting out of deep rough.  Sometimes you just need to advise your son to wedge it back to the fairway and accept the loss of a stroke.  

At age 7 winning the tournament should not be a concern.  Your hope should be for a good attitude and a pre shot routine.  The score will take care of itself.  At this age we need to focus on character development and learning to play by the rules.  In that manner we preserve the integrity of the game and the integrity of the players.  That is what really counts and what is really important.

When your son is in his teens, that is the time to become more competitive.  At age 7 he needs to make friends with other fellows who play the game well. You need to make friends with the other Dads and Moms in order to develop a circle of friendship which will greatly benefit you and your son.

Keep up the good work.  There is a fine book with the title:  Caddy Daddy on the Bag, by Rick Heard.  He is a junior golf coach in Florida and a really great guy.

Edited by busapp, 26 June 2017 - 01:22 AM.


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#67 mcneergolf

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

Understand your comments Heavy about the tour differences by location and need to be the same.. Mixed feelings because a boca raton doesn't have to worry about player retention and your 40 players have likely played before and any newcomers are no threat to the top 5.. One incident like this for the small tour though could turn a new player/parent away real quick and it has I'm sure.. Hurts boca raton..not really hurts your startup locations and less populated cities.. A lot!
here is the pickle though.. Us kids you don't keep your own scorecard and players are urged to compare scores after each hole and players write  them down.. If there is issue it is resolved right then before you leave the hole..
which has been a headache at points..more to come on that in a moment..

so real question for you guys.. Player ground his club on hole 3 and reports a 4 and doesn't include penalty..
do you
a. call them out on the stroke and make sure card is correct right then or
b. At the end of the round remind them of the penalty on hole 3?
any other tournaments and the OP turned in a incorrect scorecard and should be dq..no?

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#68 mcneergolf

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:43 PM

Ok new but related topic.. US kids format..Kid A comes off the hole and says 5..other parents are pretty sure it was a six. Issue is worked out..strokes replayed in talk..6 is recorded for that player..

next week same thing happens..
and the next week..

How would you handle this situation?
thanks in advance!

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#69 heavy_hitter

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:19 PM

 mcneergolf, on 09 July 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Understand your comments Heavy about the tour differences by location and need to be the same.. Mixed feelings because a boca raton doesn't have to worry about player retention and your 40 players have likely played before and any newcomers are no threat to the top 5.. One incident like this for the small tour though could turn a new player/parent away real quick and it has I'm sure.. Hurts boca raton..not really hurts your startup locations and less populated cities.. A lot!
here is the pickle though.. Us kids you don't keep your own scorecard and players are urged to compare scores after each hole and players write  them down.. If there is issue it is resolved right then before you leave the hole..
which has been a headache at points..more to come on that in a moment..

so real question for you guys.. Player ground his club on hole 3 and reports a 4 and doesn't include penalty..
do you
a. call them out on the stroke and make sure card is correct right then or
b. At the end of the round remind them of the penalty on hole 3?
any other tournaments and the OP turned in a incorrect scorecard and should be dq..no?

I am confused.  Since when do kids in US Kids tournaments not keep their own scores?  We have been doing it since 8 years old and the kids have always kept their own scores.

It isn't the adults job to report any penalties.  It is the job of the kids to talk about it at the scorers table.  In regards to my son, he would call them out on it as soon as it happens.  He always pays attention to the kids in his group, which he should.

If a kid continues to give the incorrect score I would look at him/her as being shady.  It isn't on the parents/caddies to discuss the scores.  It is on the kids.  If their is an issue then the caddies can help with the situation.   As far as the parents as spectators, they are spectators.  They need to stay out of what is going on as they have zero influence.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 10 July 2017 - 04:19 PM.


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#70 mcneergolf

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 09:04 PM

 heavy_hitter, on 10 July 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

 mcneergolf, on 09 July 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Understand your comments Heavy about the tour differences by location and need to be the same.. Mixed feelings because a boca raton doesn't have to worry about player retention and your 40 players have likely played before and any newcomers are no threat to the top 5.. One incident like this for the small tour though could turn a new player/parent away real quick and it has I'm sure.. Hurts boca raton..not really hurts your startup locations and less populated cities.. A lot!
here is the pickle though.. Us kids you don't keep your own scorecard and players are urged to compare scores after each hole and players write  them down.. If there is issue it is resolved right then before you leave the hole..
which has been a headache at points..more to come on that in a moment..

so real question for you guys.. Player ground his club on hole 3 and reports a 4 and doesn't include penalty..
do you
a. call them out on the stroke and make sure card is correct right then or
b. At the end of the round remind them of the penalty on hole 3?
any other tournaments and the OP turned in a incorrect scorecard and should be dq..no?

I am confused.  Since when do kids in US Kids tournaments not keep their own scores?  We have been doing it since 8 years old and the kids have always kept their own scores.

It isn't the adults job to report any penalties.  It is the job of the kids to talk about it at the scorers table.  In regards to my son, he would call them out on it as soon as it happens.  He always pays attention to the kids in his group, which he should.

If a kid continues to give the incorrect score I would look at him/her as being shady.  It isn't on the parents/caddies to discuss the scores.  It is on the kids.  If their is an issue then the caddies can help with the situation.   As far as the parents as spectators, they are spectators.  They need to stay out of what is going on as they have zero influence.

Sorry .. To clarify I meant keep their scorecards.. Player A gives their scorecard to player b give theirs to player c and c to a.. player b writes down player a's score on each hole.. Keep your own at the top. They do this in two different local tours and a state invitational.

Understand the caddies stay out of the scoring but do you idly watch as your kid doesn't catch the incorrect reporting of a score or penalty on the hole for another player?  Gotta remember most of the kids that we have played with are rookies in first or second season and maybe 1 has played a regional event. We are talking six plus scores on some holes my kid included lol

I guess I am still not clear on when as caddie to get involved in scoring and when not to? Is answer both a or b?

Not arguing the points just really trying to clear it up for myself and how best to handle so thanks for feedback!


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#71 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 08:47 AM

 mcneergolf, on 10 July 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 10 July 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

 mcneergolf, on 09 July 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Understand your comments Heavy about the tour differences by location and need to be the same.. Mixed feelings because a boca raton doesn't have to worry about player retention and your 40 players have likely played before and any newcomers are no threat to the top 5.. One incident like this for the small tour though could turn a new player/parent away real quick and it has I'm sure.. Hurts boca raton..not really hurts your startup locations and less populated cities.. A lot!
here is the pickle though.. Us kids you don't keep your own scorecard and players are urged to compare scores after each hole and players write  them down.. If there is issue it is resolved right then before you leave the hole..
which has been a headache at points..more to come on that in a moment..

so real question for you guys.. Player ground his club on hole 3 and reports a 4 and doesn't include penalty..
do you
a. call them out on the stroke and make sure card is correct right then or
b. At the end of the round remind them of the penalty on hole 3?
any other tournaments and the OP turned in a incorrect scorecard and should be dq..no?

I am confused.  Since when do kids in US Kids tournaments not keep their own scores?  We have been doing it since 8 years old and the kids have always kept their own scores.

It isn't the adults job to report any penalties.  It is the job of the kids to talk about it at the scorers table.  In regards to my son, he would call them out on it as soon as it happens.  He always pays attention to the kids in his group, which he should.

If a kid continues to give the incorrect score I would look at him/her as being shady.  It isn't on the parents/caddies to discuss the scores.  It is on the kids.  If their is an issue then the caddies can help with the situation.   As far as the parents as spectators, they are spectators.  They need to stay out of what is going on as they have zero influence.

Sorry .. To clarify I meant keep their scorecards.. Player A gives their scorecard to player b give theirs to player c and c to a.. player b writes down player a's score on each hole.. Keep your own at the top. They do this in two different local tours and a state invitational.

Understand the caddies stay out of the scoring but do you idly watch as your kid doesn't catch the incorrect reporting of a score or penalty on the hole for another player?  Gotta remember most of the kids that we have played with are rookies in first or second season and maybe 1 has played a regional event. We are talking six plus scores on some holes my kid included lol

I guess I am still not clear on when as caddie to get involved in scoring and when not to? Is answer both a or b?

Not arguing the points just really trying to clear it up for myself and how best to handle so thanks for feedback!

My kid and I always talk about the score.  It is the players job to discuss the scores with the other players.  I stay out of the conversation unless another parent decides to pipe up.  I am also a very intimidating presence when I want to be, so when a caddie decides to pipe up I squash it real quick.  Just something I have learned to do with caddies/parents over the course of doing this for several years.  Most of us know each other and let the kids figure it out.  We stay out unless they ask.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 11 July 2017 - 08:48 AM.


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#72 Highgolfer07

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:12 PM

It's always hard being a parent and seeing our kids not win.  Even more importantly when it was an easily preventable situation.  While top just make sure you discuss with him the life lessons and he will be a better person for it.
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#73 Noles

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:50 PM

It is definitely a difficult decision when to intervene and when to stay silent.  Hopefully the kids can come up with what is right on their own.  If not, hopefully they know what to do when they are not sure what is right and can present the facts to the correct person (i.e. an official).

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#74 Tro

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:00 PM

Not trying to be harsh here, but a rule is a rule, whether you know of the rule or not.  Good learning experience all around.

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#75 Bertsy20

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:30 PM

I agree a rule is a rule and should be enforced and brought to the immediate attention. This is the way they learn. In USKids tournaments when caddies are allowed it is part of our jobs. When this happens it teaches the kids of the rules. I do think it's best to bring it up right away. And how you go about it probably makes a difference in how it's perceived. I usually bring it up in private to the parent so it doesn't affect the kid moving forward. This puts it in the parents court and if they choose to enforce it or not enforce it well than that's on their conscience.

In my experience, The cart riding rule is well known so that's never an issue. And as you move up the ranks in age the kids know the rules and if we do our job educating them, then usually it becomes a non issue. If we don't, when a bigger tournament comes along the consequence could be much more detrimental than winning a USKids Tour Championship at age 7.

Respectfully


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#76 OffTheDole

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:52 PM

Looks like something similar happened at the US Junior Amateur, with a kid ultimately losing a match partly from riding in a cart to the bathroom:

http://www.golfdiges...-junior-amateur

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