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Interesting rules violation@ local Uskids tournament


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#31 killer21

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 08:52 PM

View Postnicelife, on 02 May 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

The use of "we" in this interesting. Is this a Sports Dad talk? I called out the we's for review with a few notes.

On the 7th hole my son hit his drive (*note The kid is playing alone here).  He hopped into the cart and we(*note Normal use of we) went to his ball.  All of the sudden I hear another player in our group yelling that my son isn't supposed to be riding in the cart during a hole. Ok, so we (*note Here WE go) proceed to hit our second shot and make par.  We go on to the 8th hole (par5). We only have 78 yards in and proceed to chunk one. Short chip for our 3rd and it just gets worse. We end up making double and the other guy in our group makes eagle. Ouch!!  So now we are tied with the other guy coming into hole 9.  We make par and he makes bogey. We win by 1 right? WRONG!!!

As we approach the scoring table the other player who is also a good friend starts talking about a 2 stroke penalty for riding in the cart and instead of coming in first we are now second.  At this point Both my son and I are pretty livid.  Needless to say the rules state that cart infractions result in a 2 stroke penalty.

What do you guys think?  Wrong or right we have never called anyone out for the cart infraction. I get the whole 'protecting the field thing' but I think 2 strokes for a player riding in a cart for a 140 yards is harsh and ridiculous.  On top of that, in looking at the us kids website there is no mention of 2 strokes penalty for the infraction.

When your child is 7 years old and competing in a golf tournament at that age with a parent, "we" is a huge component of the event.  Parents are highly involved with their child at that level which includes, helping, teaching, motivating, consoling, feeding, disagreeing, crying, cleaning, focussing etc...so "we" is a highly appropriate term to describe a parent child relationship in a U.S. Kids golf tournament.  Also in U.S. Kids slow play is usually a huge issue, so if riding between shots speeds up play provided it doesn't interfere with other players or make the pace of play slower, I would be all for it.  Many people enjoy the fact that parents can caddie usually until the kids are older than most tours and that enhances the "we" experience because eventually the child will be on his own the rest of his junior career and the parent will sit on the sidelines.

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#32 tiger1873

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:16 AM

The rules should either allow carts or not allow them. I think the us kids rules are a little confusing because it allows them between holes.  The penalty issued in this case was a parent waiting for the right time to use it. I think a warning is better at this age for stuff like this. Many times I seen young kids do things that are technically penalties but are overlooked and brought up as a warning. For instance if a 7 year old grounds a club in a sand trap are you really going to say it is a penalty? At this age you need to let them play  discuss the rules and learn to correct there mistakes. Now if they keep doing the same thing of course a penalty needs to be enforced.

I also think the use of carts make sense when it comes to  kids who are under 12 and need a caddy especially if they are playing 18 holes. With younger kids you need to carry water and extra clothes if it cold and wet.


The big issue I see in tournaments for younger kids is pace of play is usually very slow. Carts just speed things up.

Edited by tiger1873, 04 May 2017 - 01:18 AM.


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#33 Gem

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:42 AM

I would much rather young kids played on simple shorter courses that could easily be walked and it would be better to keep the parents away. Not a lot of good comes from the parents being there even though they all have good intentions.
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#34 lloyyd

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:52 AM

View Postnicelife, on 02 May 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

The use of "we" in this interesting. Is this a Sports Dad talk?
Just sounds like Good Dad talk to me. I take it you don't have kids.
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#35 2bGood

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:10 AM

View PostGem, on 04 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I would much rather young kids played on simple shorter courses that could easily be walked and it would be better to keep the parents away. Not a lot of good comes from the parents being there even though they all have good intentions.

I might agree - but we are talking about 7 years old here.


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#36 Noles

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:32 AM

View PostGem, on 04 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I would much rather young kids played on simple shorter courses that could easily be walked and it would be better to keep the parents away. Not a lot of good comes from the parents being there even though they all have good intentions.
Kids at that young age cannot be out there unsupervised so unless you have an army of volunteers, parents need to be there with them.  Aside from that the age range at US Kids tournaments is up to 14 so you need courses that are flexible enough to set up for the little ones yet also challenge the older kids as well.

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#37 Noles

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

The rules should either allow carts or not allow them. I think the us kids rules are a little confusing because it allows them between holes.  The penalty issued in this case was a parent waiting for the right time to use it. I think a warning is better at this age for stuff like this. Many times I seen young kids do things that are technically penalties but are overlooked and brought up as a warning. For instance if a 7 year old grounds a club in a sand trap are you really going to say it is a penalty? At this age you need to let them play  discuss the rules and learn to correct there mistakes. Now if they keep doing the same thing of course a penalty needs to be enforced.

I also think the use of carts make sense when it comes to  kids who are under 12 and need a caddy especially if they are playing 18 holes. With younger kids you need to carry water and extra clothes if it cold and wet.


The big issue I see in tournaments for younger kids is pace of play is usually very slow. Carts just speed things up.
I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

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#38 Gem

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:39 AM

View Post2bGood, on 04 May 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostGem, on 04 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I would much rather young kids played on simple shorter courses that could easily be walked and it would be better to keep the parents away. Not a lot of good comes from the parents being there even though they all have good intentions.

I might agree - but we are talking about 7 years old here.

I do agree that 7 may bit young but I joined my local golf course at 8 years old and walked to it on my own and we were never supervised in any way and played all summer every year.
It was 40 years ago and people are a bit more paranoid these days.

I just think we tend to smother kids a bit too much these days rather than just allow them to play in an unstructured environment.

Edited by Gem, 04 May 2017 - 08:43 AM.

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#39 tiger1873

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.

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#40 Noles

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:24 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.
I am not really sure what point you are making?  I am only asking because you quoted me in your reply.


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#41 heavy_hitter

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

The rules should either allow carts or not allow them. I think the us kids rules are a little confusing because it allows them between holes.  The penalty issued in this case was a parent waiting for the right time to use it. I think a warning is better at this age for stuff like this. Many times I seen young kids do things that are technically penalties but are overlooked and brought up as a warning. For instance if a 7 year old grounds a club in a sand trap are you really going to say it is a penalty? At this age you need to let them play  discuss the rules and learn to correct there mistakes. Now if they keep doing the same thing of course a penalty needs to be enforced.

I also think the use of carts make sense when it comes to  kids who are under 12 and need a caddy especially if they are playing 18 holes. With younger kids you need to carry water and extra clothes if it cold and wet.


The big issue I see in tournaments for younger kids is pace of play is usually very slow. Carts just speed things up.
I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

Nailed it.  100% agree.

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#42 tiger1873

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:16 PM

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.
I am not really sure what point you are making?  I am only asking because you quoted me in your reply.

You made the comment that warnings should not be given and penalties always enforced.  It is not popular to say but very few kids at 6 or 7 years old and playing low level local tournaments will be able to play golf and not have issues with rules. I would even to venture to say any kid that age will be having issues with playing golf by the rules.   The most important thing is they play and count the stokes accurately. Giving a penalty  because they rode in the cart or had two parents along being the caddy instead of warning them that they can get a penalty to teach them a lesson does more harm then good.

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#43 kekoa

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:16 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

The rules should either allow carts or not allow them. I think the us kids rules are a little confusing because it allows them between holes.  The penalty issued in this case was a parent waiting for the right time to use it. I think a warning is better at this age for stuff like this. Many times I seen young kids do things that are technically penalties but are overlooked and brought up as a warning. For instance if a 7 year old grounds a club in a sand trap are you really going to say it is a penalty? At this age you need to let them play  discuss the rules and learn to correct there mistakes. Now if they keep doing the same thing of course a penalty needs to be enforced.

I also think the use of carts make sense when it comes to  kids who are under 12 and need a caddy especially if they are playing 18 holes. With younger kids you need to carry water and extra clothes if it cold and wet.


The big issue I see in tournaments for younger kids is pace of play is usually very slow. Carts just speed things up.

I agree on either allowing carts or not allowing them at all for these US kids tournaments.  Just make local tournaments like the Worlds where power carts are not allowed at all.  Especially if US Kids calls for a 2 stroke penalty for such an infraction.  2 stokes is overly harsh in my opinion.  I don't make the rules, but a warning and then 1 stroke penalty makes a lot more sense.

Not apples to apples, but how do two partents cussing and about to brawl at a tournament get away with just a warning during these events?  To me, such behavior is a lot worse and unbecoming of the game than some type of cart infraction.

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#44 Noles

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:17 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.
I am not really sure what point you are making?  I am only asking because you quoted me in your reply.

You made the comment that warnings should not be given and penalties always enforced.  It is not popular to say but very few kids at 6 or 7 years old and playing low level local tournaments will be able to play golf and not have issues with rules. I would even to venture to say any kid that age will be having issues with playing golf by the rules.   The most important thing is they play and count the stokes accurately. Giving a penalty  because they rode in the cart or had two parents along being the caddy instead of warning them that they can get a penalty to teach them a lesson does more harm then good.
  Ok.  I just disagree.  Entering a USKids tournament is optional.  If the child or their parent is not ready for what is expected, then don't enter.  Wait until you are ready.  Its a competition.  Competitions have to have rules and consequences.  If you think the consequences do harm, then play somewhere else.

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#45 alfriday

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:03 PM

According to the U.S. Kids Golf website, the par 5 length for 7 year old boys is 211-300 yards.  Total course target length for 9 holes is 1500 yards.  The tournaments are held on regular length courses.  If the course is 3200 yards for adults (9 holes, 6400 for 18), then the kids are walking more distance between holes than they are when walking the course they are actually playing.

I guess I have no problem with allowing the kids to ride carts between holes but requiring them to walk the part of the course they are playing.  

How many adults would want to walk a 6500 yard course with 7000 yards between the tees?


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#46 Noles

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:43 PM

The riding in between holes actually creates a lot of bonding between the kids.  They will often squeeze into the same carts together while the parents walk.  Next thing you know they are sharing snacks.  It was a good part of the experience for my son.

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#47 heavy_hitter

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 03:32 PM

View Postalfriday, on 04 May 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

According to the U.S. Kids Golf website, the par 5 length for 7 year old boys is 211-300 yards.  Total course target length for 9 holes is 1500 yards.  The tournaments are held on regular length courses.  If the course is 3200 yards for adults (9 holes, 6400 for 18), then the kids are walking more distance between holes than they are when walking the course they are actually playing.

I guess I have no problem with allowing the kids to ride carts between holes but requiring them to walk the part of the course they are playing.  

How many adults would want to walk a 6500 yard course with 7000 yards between the tees?

There isn't such course.

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#48 tiger1873

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

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#49 kekoa

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:20 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

Below is the scorecard from the last tournament:  7 Y/olds play from the Blue markers on regulation courses.  Thus far, none have been on executive courses.  On your second point- many of the kids in local LA/OC tour are very good shooting anywhere from a few under par to a few over.

Par 4 - 120 yards
Par 4 - 180 yards
par 3- 80 yards
par 5- 275 yards
Par 3- 86 yards
Par 4- 160 yards
Par 4- 180 yards
Par 5- 252 yards
Par 4- 150 yards

TOTAL- 1,483 Yards

Edited by kekoa, 04 May 2017 - 04:24 PM.


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#50 heavy_hitter

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:41 PM

View Postkekoa, on 04 May 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

Below is the scorecard from the last tournament:  7 Y/olds play from the Blue markers on regulation courses.  Thus far, none have been on executive courses.  On your second point- many of the kids in local LA/OC tour are very good shooting anywhere from a few under par to a few over.

Par 4 - 120 yards
Par 4 - 180 yards
par 3- 80 yards
par 5- 275 yards
Par 3- 86 yards
Par 4- 160 yards
Par 4- 180 yards
Par 5- 252 yards
Par 4- 150 yards

TOTAL- 1,483 Yards

View Postkekoa, on 04 May 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

Below is the scorecard from the last tournament:  7 Y/olds play from the Blue markers on regulation courses.  Thus far, none have been on executive courses.  On your second point- many of the kids in local LA/OC tour are very good shooting anywhere from a few under par to a few over.

Par 4 - 120 yards
Par 4 - 180 yards
par 3- 80 yards
par 5- 275 yards
Par 3- 86 yards
Par 4- 160 yards
Par 4- 180 yards
Par 5- 252 yards
Par 4- 150 yards

TOTAL- 1,483 Yards

7 years old seems like a long time ago even though it has been 5 years.  How far are 7 year olds driving the ball?  I simply don't remember and I didn't start mine in US Kids until he was 8 getting ready to turn 9.


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#51 kekoa

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:53 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 04 May 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 04 May 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

Below is the scorecard from the last tournament:  7 Y/olds play from the Blue markers on regulation courses.  Thus far, none have been on executive courses.  On your second point- many of the kids in local LA/OC tour are very good shooting anywhere from a few under par to a few over.

Par 4 - 120 yards
Par 4 - 180 yards
par 3- 80 yards
par 5- 275 yards
Par 3- 86 yards
Par 4- 160 yards
Par 4- 180 yards
Par 5- 252 yards
Par 4- 150 yards

TOTAL- 1,483 Yards

View Postkekoa, on 04 May 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Walking isn't really an issue for 9 holes. Also a lot these kids at 7 years old only tee off at 100 yards. Most kids have no problem walking 9 holes at this age. Also the local tournaments here play a lot of executive courses with short yardage for kids at a younger age or just starting to do tournaments. It actually more work to have a cart on these courses.

I am not really a fan of doing a lot tournaments when they are 6 or 7. Most of the kids at this age have a big problem even getting the ball off the ground. At this age your really just doing it for fun and introducing them to the sport.

Below is the scorecard from the last tournament:  7 Y/olds play from the Blue markers on regulation courses.  Thus far, none have been on executive courses.  On your second point- many of the kids in local LA/OC tour are very good shooting anywhere from a few under par to a few over.

Par 4 - 120 yards
Par 4 - 180 yards
par 3- 80 yards
par 5- 275 yards
Par 3- 86 yards
Par 4- 160 yards
Par 4- 180 yards
Par 5- 252 yards
Par 4- 150 yards

TOTAL- 1,483 Yards

7 years old seems like a long time ago even though it has been 5 years.  How far are 7 year olds driving the ball?  I simply don't remember and I didn't start mine in US Kids until he was 8 getting ready to turn 9.

My kid is on the short end since he is average height and a twig.  The longer kids are hitting driver about 150-160.

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#52 MikekiM

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:56 PM

Bummer to hear about what happened.  I think the penalty was correct, and since it was just a local tournament just chalk it up to a lesson learned.  Our starters usually give out very clear reminders about not riding in carts during the play of a hole. Like you said time to invest in a cart instead of those shiny new drivers! ;)
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#53 jollysammy

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 06:47 AM

My son and I never used a riding cart in US Kids, but were made well aware of that rule at every event.  We always walked where I pushed the cart or carried until he reached age 11.  The one problem we noticed with carts when he was young were mothers that were instructed to stay on the cart path, running all over the fairways oblivious and often times in my son's path of his drive.

All this junior golf really comes down to expensive lessons on how to play the game right.  After this experience you'll never make the same mistake again and probably never let anyone else make the same mistake either.  This is the valuable lesson, winning at this age is less critical, playing the game right is the ultimate goal.

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#54 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

OP, you made a silly mistake and in the end it determined a win/2nd place finish. That sucks, but rules are rules.

I think experiences like these build character and teach our kids how to properly handle adversity - two attributes that hold far more value than any Jr golf trophy. I'm sorry, but winning isn't everything.

If he can learn now how to properly handle these situations and be accountable for his actions, he will be a much better player/person as he grows up. If the penalty had not been assessed and your rules infraction overlooked, that teaches him is that he can break rules with a total disregard for how his actions affect others and set him up for the entitlement attitude.
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#55 mcneergolf

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:29 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.

I think Tiger above is spot on and I probably disagree with most of the other statements.... If US kids locals is not the tournaments to work these kind of things out .. what tournaments are? The local tournaments here are no caddy at any age and the competition is way higher.. no learning much there for a young one. Where does one under 12 get tournament experience? I have run into similar situations at tournaments grounding club,improperly placing marker, etc. Unless it's blatant cheating and continues, usually a warning to the kid or parent seems to work. Sometimes a lot of single moms and non-golf parents out there do not know the rules very well and we have played with many. Even myself who has played for 30+ years still doesn't know all the rules well and have to lean on other parents for rules advice.   Our director at every tournament, on the first tee box will go over a different rule with the kids and show the kids use of it before they tee off, which is great in my opinion. We learn something new most every time.

Personally, in one of our first tournaments, my daughter grounded her club in bunker and parent politely told us about the rule and she has never done it again. I appreciated that parents insight because i had no idea about that rule. I still have buddies that even though I am now "rules"  wiser and told them about that rule(and some of the others we have learned by playing US Kids)  they will still ground the club in bunker.

Even so call the penalty out on that hole and not at the end when you realize your kid is down 2.  12+ ok it's get strict time just as if it were holding at peewee football ( it happens on every play at the earlier ages/ the flags would never stop/infractions on every play) .. they are learning how to play within the rules and need reminding a lot! Refs are tougher as they get to older age groups at any other sport right?

I do not think as a parent who will ultimately have to play with these same kids/parents again, I would have called the infraction. Would have warned him for future but that was going a little too far.  I am sure this parent is thinking that other kid better not ever make a mistake or its getting called lol.. at 7 years old... and it will happen i'm sure and I feel bad that now he is forced to take that stance towards the other kid but why shouldn't he now?

Lastly , we need to grow the game and whether that means carts or not at 7-12 years old it should go they way of whats best for growing the game overall. 7 year old kids strides are fairly short..hard to even compare walking distances between holes us compared to them.

Edited by mcneergolf, 10 May 2017 - 10:39 PM.


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#56 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:17 AM

View Postmcneergolf, on 10 May 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 04 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostNoles, on 04 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I did US Kids tournaments at all levels and everyone knew the cart rule that I encountered.  If one occasional person doesn't know then it is on them.  The rule is fine as it is.  As far as warning vs. penalty.  This is tournament golf.  If you want warnings then go into a different type of event.  It is a tournament designed for kids who have achieved a certain skill level for their age.  Rules need to be followed and penalized accordingly when broken, unless specified ahead of time that a first offense will be given a warning.

I agree everyone knows the rules but sometimes parents and kids are new to the tournaments and really don't know them.   Locally we have different levels of tournament golf. For instance team golf locally is a very low level of play and they even do not count penalties the same way. I believe that is the same in a lot places. At 6 or 7 years old at a local US kids event I would not expect everyone to know every rule of golf.  As they advance I would expect them to understand more rules. If you end up at pinehurst I would expect you to understand the rules a lot more and be extra careful.

After you play a few tournaments you see the same people over and over again. It's okay to point out stuff and teach them the correct way of doing things . Most parents and kids are happy you are pointing them out and giving them a chance to correct it. I seen a lot parents offer each other advice and encourage the kids in these events at this age. It creates a fun atmosphere and makes sense. We are not talking about older kids who have been playing a while we are talking about young kids here.

I think Tiger above is spot on and I probably disagree with most of the other statements.... If US kids locals is not the tournaments to work these kind of things out .. what tournaments are? The local tournaments here are no caddy at any age and the competition is way higher.. no learning much there for a young one. Where does one under 12 get tournament experience? I have run into similar situations at tournaments grounding club,improperly placing marker, etc. Unless it's blatant cheating and continues, usually a warning to the kid or parent seems to work. Sometimes a lot of single moms and non-golf parents out there do not know the rules very well and we have played with many. Even myself who has played for 30+ years still doesn't know all the rules well and have to lean on other parents for rules advice.   Our director at every tournament, on the first tee box will go over a different rule with the kids and show the kids use of it before they tee off, which is great in my opinion. We learn something new most every time.

Personally, in one of our first tournaments, my daughter grounded her club in bunker and parent politely told us about the rule and she has never done it again. I appreciated that parents insight because i had no idea about that rule. I still have buddies that even though I am now "rules"  wiser and told them about that rule(and some of the others we have learned by playing US Kids)  they will still ground the club in bunker.

Even so call the penalty out on that hole and not at the end when you realize your kid is down 2.  12+ ok it's get strict time just as if it were holding at peewee football ( it happens on every play at the earlier ages/ the flags would never stop/infractions on every play) .. they are learning how to play within the rules and need reminding a lot! Refs are tougher as they get to older age groups at any other sport right?

I do not think as a parent who will ultimately have to play with these same kids/parents again, I would have called the infraction. Would have warned him for future but that was going a little too far.  I am sure this parent is thinking that other kid better not ever make a mistake or its getting called lol.. at 7 years old... and it will happen i'm sure and I feel bad that now he is forced to take that stance towards the other kid but why shouldn't he now?

Lastly , we need to grow the game and whether that means carts or not at 7-12 years old it should go they way of whats best for growing the game overall. 7 year old kids strides are fairly short..hard to even compare walking distances between holes us compared to them.

I see the point.  I don't agree.  These kids are playing for a trip to the World Championships at Pinehurst.  The time to learn how to play and use the rules is through local summer camps, local programs not affiliated with US Kids, and work on the course with parents and or coach.

US Kids Locals can be all over the map as far as competitiveness goes.  Take the local Gulf Coast Local tour where there are only 3 kids (one 6 year old boy and two 10-11 year old girls) that could compete on the national level.  Then take the US Kids Local Boca Raton Tour where there are more than 40 kids that can compete on the national level.  You can't say that one US Kids Local is going to do this and the other is going to do that.  The kids at the Boca Raton Local are their to play, compete, and win the Local Championship.  At that local you can't allow kids to get away with rules violations because it does not allow the field to be protected.  The difference in one stroke can be the difference in 10 points which can alter winning or not winning the local tour.  You have to call every rules violation on every player to protect the rest of the field.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 11 May 2017 - 09:18 AM.


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#57 RedWolfWay

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:05 AM

Rules are rules. That said, pretty poor that a "friend" in competition calls this to attention after he has been defeated by a shot to result in a win for him. Sour taste there...
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#58 leezer99

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:30 PM

View PostRedWolfWay, on 11 May 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Rules are rules. That said, pretty poor that a "friend" in competition calls this to attention after he has been defeated by a shot to result in a win for him. Sour taste there...

I think in OP's post he said that the player called it out during the course of play but brought it up at the scoring table.  I see no foul or sour taste as they wouldn't have known the scores of the rest of the field at that point.

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#59 kekoa

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:16 AM

Sorry to dwell on the rules infraction, but I still dont think that accidentally riding in a cart during a hole is worthy of two strokes.  It also stings more given that a 'friend' so willingly called us out. Definitely did NOT get a cart this time. :superman:

I guess it's water under the bridge since my son was able to fire a 31 (-5) today to capture the tour championship by half a point.  He shot the same score as a 6 year old, but this is his best in the 7's.

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Edited by kekoa, 23 May 2017 - 06:13 PM.


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#60 xxio

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:59 AM

Congratulations. Now your child knows that it is ok to get penalized even for things accidental. Just work at it, you can still win.

Edited by xxio, 22 May 2017 - 09:02 AM.


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