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9/3 Drill and much..much..more

slicefixer geoff jones

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#991 slicefixer

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 08:02 PM

"some of slice students can break 80 in a couple of months!!!"

......A YEAR Jay, +/-........although the kid you saw on video did break 80 in about 6 months........Normally takes a year to a year and a half  +/-.......that's from ground zero......and that's ONLY with people who are 100% committed......not really all that big a deal IF the player is committed, patient, and will PRACTICE.....anyway, I don't want folk's thinking I can "anoint" beginners into good players as NO teacher can do that ........ :russian_roulette:


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#992 mmp

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:45 AM

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 11 2008, 09:02 PM, said:

"some of slice students can break 80 in a couple of months!!!"

......A YEAR Jay, +/-........although the kid you saw on video did break 80 in about 6 months........Normally takes a year to a year and a half  +/-.......that's from ground zero......and that's ONLY with people who are 100% committed......not really all that big a deal IF the player is committed, patient, and will PRACTICE.....anyway, I don't want folk's thinking I can "anoint" beginners into good players as NO teacher can do that ........ :russian_roulette:


What no magic wand  :friends: .  Anyway, thanks for all your time and contribution slice.

#993 slicefixer

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 10:28 AM

LOL........nope.........I tell this to just about all my first timer's, "I'm not the Pope of golf and, as a result, I can't anoint you a good player.......wish I could and I was the only one who knew how as I'd have a G-5 parked across the street at the airport, a 10k acre hunting ranch in S. Texas, and be livin' on the nicest lil' ranch in E. Texas".........hehehehe

#994 provx

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 01:47 PM

slice,

you have talked about the knucklefade before and stated its requirements, but all prefaced that if you are a slinger this shot won't work.

do you know how to play a knucklefade esque shot for a slinger? maybe slingers are just out of luck because of they way they release?

#995 slicefixer

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 06:35 PM

View Postprovx, on Jun 14 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

slice,

you have talked about the knucklefade before and stated its requirements, but all prefaced that if you are a slinger this shot won't work.

do you know how to play a knucklefade esque shot for a slinger? maybe slingers are just out of luck because of they way they release?


NO, a slinger CAN play a knuckle fade, but, it's harder to do consistently because the "toe of the club is so active".......meaning they have to "time" things just right so that the toe just doesn't quite "catch up" during impact........VJ hits em' all the time.......but, he's ALWAYS a micro-millimeter from a snapper/pull........and he hits those under that gun a lot of times........it's better to be able to "pre-set" the fade at address and then just rotate THROUGH the shot with all ya' got with the toe being pre-set to "delay" a micro-second........result is a shot that LOOKS like it wants to draw, but, won't and normally FALLS very, very slightly to the right.......more or less DEAD STRAIGHT and when it's missed it ALWAYS slides a bit right........NEVER left.......ever.......IF you commit and turn THROUGH the shot....... :D


#996 provx

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 10:22 PM

would you say that some failsafes against the toe flipping over would be addressing the ball on the heel and increased left hand 3 fingers pressure? what would be some examples of others?

#997 Joe Duffer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 11:28 AM

Mr. Fixer, will this drill produce a low trajectory shot…kind of like a punch/knockdown shot?

#998 Joe Duffer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 11:34 AM

Also, is it possible to have too much wrist bend in the right wrist at 9:00? It seems to me that if the right wrist is fully bent (75-90 degrees), it’s just about impossible to square the clubface up at impact with JUST pivot (core) rotation. Would a bit less right wrist bend @ 9:00 help ?

Edited by Joe Duffer, 16 June 2008 - 11:35 AM.


#999 slicefixer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 04:49 PM

View Postprovx, on Jun 14 2008, 10:22 PM, said:

would you say that some failsafes against the toe flipping over would be addressing the ball on the heel and increased left hand 3 fingers pressure? what would be some examples of others?


yes, because addressing the ball in the heel REQUIRES the player to work the arms/hands "down and LEFT/around" in order to strike the ball in the center of the face.......at least if the player is set up properly and pivots properly.......the opposite is true if you address it off the toe which would then require the player to "go get the ball" by working the arms more down the line ("chase it")

And, yes feeling that the pressure in the last 3 fingers of the left hand are in "charge" helps one to "hold off the toe" and is a GREAT "anti-hook" image/thought/feel........

- Feeling that the lead side/left side in a righty is in charge and UNwinding AROUND with the set of the right wrist being maintained by the PULLING of the clearing left side........this feeling/move/image would "delay the toe".......

- Opening up the body at address helps as it aids greatly in achieving what I just explained directly above......

- Setting up with the face SLIGHTLY open at address is another........SLIGHTLY......

- Opening up the stance a bit, both feet and the left toe, also helps one to feel "wound up" better and helps the left side to "lead" the downswing which holds off the toe......

- Choking down on the club so as to get some "weight" ABOVE the hands to counter-balance the clubhead also helps one to "delay the toe"........

- The feeling of the "heel leading"/"open face" in transition.......feeling the left side PULLING the face down plane (parallel to the plane) for as long as one can also helps........GREAT image/thought/feel for a good swinger.......

- REALLY rotating the lead forearm in the backswing and then maintaining the relationship between the arms/club from this at the top well into the transition/well into the downswing is a good un'.......the relationship that is formed at the top as a result of lead forearm rotation/right arm folding/setting........."setting up/creating/aligning the levers" at the top and maintaining them into the downswing........another really good thought/image/reality for a good swinger/player

- Simply weakening the grip is a good one and works very well with good players........(same thing as opening the face at address......same result and effect)

- Adding lead tape to the TOE of the club.......moving the COG towards the toe of the club........helps a LOT with some.......especially good players.......

MANY more depending on the player and their tendencies........but that's a fairly extensive list and you can reverse em' for a slicer/fader...........

Edited by slicefixer, 16 June 2008 - 10:14 PM.


#1000 slicefixer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 04:51 PM

View PostJoe Duffer, on Jun 16 2008, 11:28 AM, said:

Mr. Fixer, will this drill produce a low trajectory shot…kind of like a punch/knockdown shot?

With a longer club it sure can........I don't recommend, for most, hitting anything longer than a 6 iron.......but, with most the ball will still get up in the air quite nicely as they are trapping/compressing the ball a lot more which creates "lift" and gets the ball in the air.......in other words, if you perform it with a bit of speed the ball will still get up in the air quite nicely with a more piercing/boring trajectory........


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#1001 slicefixer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 04:55 PM

View PostJoe Duffer, on Jun 16 2008, 11:34 AM, said:

Also, is it possible to have too much wrist bend in the right wrist at 9:00? It seems to me that if the right wrist is fully bent (75-90 degrees), it’s just about impossible to square the clubface up at impact with JUST pivot (core) rotation. Would a bit less right wrist bend @ 9:00 help ?

You could get it set too much which would shut the face and then you couldn't rotate/pivot "around" effectively or you'd hook it.......from a normal/stock set up anyway.........if you play the ball well back you could still rotate AROUND and hit it straight, but, it would have a low'ish flight........I teach a shot for playing high winds where the player try's to get the right wrist set as much as possible and then transfers/rotates and punches down on the ball with the club traveling a bit more DTL.......creates a REALLY boring slight draw that won't get out of control in high winds........some guy's teach this shot as a stock golf swing, but, I don't.......just use it as a specialty shot..........but, it is a highly effective way of striking a golf ball........just kinda' "one dimensional"......too much so for me to teach it as a normal/stock golf swing.........

#1002 ej002

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 09:49 PM

I am not sure if you ever discussed this yet, I did a search and did not find anything... but what is your advice on grip pressure?  I guess on a rating from 1-10 (10 being the death grip)
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#1003 slicefixer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 10:11 PM

View Postej002, on Jun 16 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

I am not sure if you ever discussed this yet, I did a search and did not find anything... but what is your advice on grip pressure?  I guess on a rating from 1-10 (10 being the death grip)

Totally depends on the individual, how/where they release the club....... a "2" to someone with strong hands might be a "10" for a person with weak hands........I use this old tried and true example......old fashioned tube of toothpaste with the cap off.......enough pressure to squeeze a nice tight bead, but, not so much as to blast it all over the counter........ :D  As they say, "your mileage may vary"......:D

Edited by slicefixer, 16 June 2008 - 10:14 PM.


#1004 ej002

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 10:25 PM

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM, said:

View Postej002, on Jun 16 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

I am not sure if you ever discussed this yet, I did a search and did not find anything... but what is your advice on grip pressure?  I guess on a rating from 1-10 (10 being the death grip)

Totally depends on the individual, how/where they release the club....... a "2" to someone with strong hands might be a "10" for a person with weak hands........I use this old tried and true example......old fashioned tube of toothpaste with the cap off.......enough pressure to squeeze a nice tight bead, but, not so much as to blast it all over the counter........ :D  As they say, "your mileage may vary"......:D


that sounds pretty soft
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#1005 slicefixer

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 10:55 PM

naw, well, haven't thought about checking it out on a newer tube so it might be.......good point......better check before usin' that un' again.......:D


#1006 RBImGuy

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 01:40 AM

View Postej002, on Jun 17 2008, 05:25 AM, said:

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM, said:

View Postej002, on Jun 16 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

I am not sure if you ever discussed this yet, I did a search and did not find anything... but what is your advice on grip pressure?  I guess on a rating from 1-10 (10 being the death grip)

Totally depends on the individual, how/where they release the club....... a "2" to someone with strong hands might be a "10" for a person with weak hands........I use this old tried and true example......old fashioned tube of toothpaste with the cap off.......enough pressure to squeeze a nice tight bead, but, not so much as to blast it all over the counter........ :D  As they say, "your mileage may vary"......:D


that sounds pretty soft

To not activate antagonists you need soft.
The idea is to go one way with power and not dissipate to uneeded muscles activating.

a soft grip allows that.
I only hit it straight
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#1007 ej002

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 09:00 AM

View Postflopper, on Jun 17 2008, 01:40 AM, said:

View Postej002, on Jun 17 2008, 05:25 AM, said:

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM, said:

View Postej002, on Jun 16 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

I am not sure if you ever discussed this yet, I did a search and did not find anything... but what is your advice on grip pressure?  I guess on a rating from 1-10 (10 being the death grip)

Totally depends on the individual, how/where they release the club....... a "2" to someone with strong hands might be a "10" for a person with weak hands........I use this old tried and true example......old fashioned tube of toothpaste with the cap off.......enough pressure to squeeze a nice tight bead, but, not so much as to blast it all over the counter........ :D  As they say, "your mileage may vary"......:D


that sounds pretty soft

To not activate antagonists you need soft.
The idea is to go one way with power and not dissipate to uneeded muscles activating.

a soft grip allows that.


That is what I think I am figuring out.  

Geoff, I dont think it is a bad anology, I am just thinking to myself how much toothpaste would come out of a full tube if I swung it.  I am thinking that most of the tube would be gone! At least a lot more than a dab...  So I get the point, softer (in my case) is going to better.  After making swings with a softer grip, it definately feels like there is more lag, and feels like the face is more apt to square on its own.
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#1008 c010r4d0g01f3r

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 11:46 AM

Slicefixer and other swing gurus:

How does one go about fixing a pull-slice with the woods? I was at the range before my round and I was hitting these nice 10 yard fades or so (this is

my default shot). However, as soon as I teed off I pull-sliced the sh!t out of the ball...even though I started the downswing with my hips. This is very

frustrating, and I would appreciate any advice! Thanks!

#1009 slicefixer

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 05:21 PM

View Postc010r4d0g01f3r, on Jun 17 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

Slicefixer and other swing gurus:

How does one go about fixing a pull-slice with the woods? I was at the range before my round and I was hitting these nice 10 yard fades or so (this is

my default shot). However, as soon as I teed off I pull-sliced the sh!t out of the ball...even though I started the downswing with my hips. This is very

frustrating, and I would appreciate any advice! Thanks!

Sure sounds like a "spin out" pull......especially since your focuing on your "hips"......very common and a pull fade/slice is commonly the result.......in order to give you some correct advice I need to SEE your SET UP as sometimes a simply set up adjustment or a slight change in image/foucs/thought can prove almost miraculous with a spin out.......:clapping:

#1010 c010r4d0g01f3r

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 06:38 PM

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 17 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

View Postc010r4d0g01f3r, on Jun 17 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

Slicefixer and other swing gurus:

How does one go about fixing a pull-slice with the woods? I was at the range before my round and I was hitting these nice 10 yard fades or so (this is

my default shot). However, as soon as I teed off I pull-sliced the sh!t out of the ball...even though I started the downswing with my hips. This is very

frustrating, and I would appreciate any advice! Thanks!

Sure sounds like a "spin out" pull......especially since your focuing on your "hips"......very common and a pull fade/slice is commonly the result.......in order to give you some correct advice I need to SEE your SET UP as sometimes a simply set up adjustment or a slight change in image/foucs/thought can prove almost miraculous with a spin out....... :clapping:

Definitely could be a spin out...I will try to take some photos of my swing and setup either tonight or tomorrow...and should I get

some of my grip? I remember someone (think it was you, but not sure) saying that a close-up of the grip is important...thanks for

the advice though!


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#1011 LeftField11

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:23 PM

Does it make sense that if I'm doing the "9-3" drill with a lob wedge at the driving range that I could be throwing divots on the guy behind me (to my left as I finish facing down the range)?  I was pivoting left so much that that is where they were going.  I had to apologize a couple times.

#1012 slicefixer

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 10:49 PM

View PostLeftField11, on Jun 18 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Does it make sense that if I'm doing the "9-3" drill with a lob wedge at the driving range that I could be throwing divots on the guy behind me (to my left as I finish facing down the range)?  I was pivoting left so much that that is where they were going.  I had to apologize a couple times.

Why sure.........if your in good turf........rye/bent/zoyzia divots will retain their shape and could easily tend to fly left under certain circumstances (moist soil/wind, etc.).........bermuda "explodes" so you usually don't have that problem........

#1013 LeftField11

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:58 AM

View Postslicefixer, on Jun 18 2008, 11:49 PM, said:

View PostLeftField11, on Jun 18 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Does it make sense that if I'm doing the "9-3" drill with a lob wedge at the driving range that I could be throwing divots on the guy behind me (to my left as I finish facing down the range)?  I was pivoting left so much that that is where they were going.  I had to apologize a couple times.

Why sure.........if your in good turf........rye/bent/zoyzia divots will retain their shape and could easily tend to fly left under certain circumstances (moist soil/wind, etc.).........bermuda "explodes" so you usually don't have that problem........
Thanks.  I think that I'm doing the "9-3" correctly.  Till I get a tripod for my video camera I have to rely on feel and results.  The balls are drawing nicely and it feels "right".  I need to keep working on this swing to get it consistent.  The good news is that when things did start to go ary, I could re-focus and get them back in order again.  I've never been able to do that with my swing on the driving range.  I'm going to the range again today.  If I get the same results 2 sessions in a row that will be another first.  :clapping:

I'll admit that I got bored with the LW and pulled out my PW.  Results were the same.  I got a little cocky and pulled out the 7i.  Same results when I held the swing together properly.  I was pretty stoked to find that I might be able to do this correctly from reading a bunch of posts on an Internet forum.  Hopefully I'll have some video soon.

#1014 poops

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:01 PM

I'm new to all of this... So please forgive my ignorance. However, why can't I hear any audio in the video included in the first post of this thread? I can see the video, but can't hear sound. I think I see the 9 to 3 action being described. But I think it'll be more effective if I can hear the audio to go along with the video. Does anyone have a link to a working video?

Thanks in advance.

#1015 PurePursuit

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:05 PM

No audio, sorry.  Plenty has been written about how to properly perform this drill, do some digging....its worth it.


#1016 BRaway1

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:33 PM

played around with the 9to3 drill this morning before I played...had my best ball striking day in a loooong time....THANK YOU!

#1017 golf9596

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:35 PM

It has taken me 2 months of practice and patience to "start" to see some positive results w/SF method on the golf course. I am finnally starting to see the ball go to the intended target on a consistant bases. There is some hope after all. My questions for SF is this, I usually have a small amount of spin w/my irons, but now I am spinning it WAY TOO MUCH. I generally play pro v1X or the new ix from callaway. I spun 4 balls off the green today, one w/a 7 iron. Is the additional spin being created because of the quality of the hit, ie improved compression? Thank you for sharing your knowledge, it has helped. I can find my tee shots! :russian_roulette:  ;)  ;)
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#1018 PurePursuit

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:28 PM

The quality of your compression will definitely aid you in spinning the ball, check your plane out and make sure you aren't coming into the ball too steep.  Although its a great way to hit some shots especially on hard green, your going to want to shallow out the plane.  Just a guess though, check it out on video if you can.

#1019 Dougall

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:41 PM

Hey Slicefixer,

Had a couple of questions for you.

Firstly, I'm a bit of a hogan disciple, definitely think his golf swing is the one to try an emulate. My question is, how do you think he created such terrific posture angles on the downswing, especially considering his setup seemed to be built more for comfort. It seems to me that so many talented mdern players start with a rigid spine angle only to back out of it and have to reach for it with a straight right arm at impact.

I for one have played with this loss of posture-time it up with the hands move for years and was wondering how you would recommend reconditioning oneself to hit it solely with the body. In my case the club is dead on plane... just gets out of sequence with my body, looks to me like my right hip gets a bit high starting down and when my elbow gets trapped behind it, my body is forced to stop, my right arm straightens and I flip it over. I would love to just open up like Hogan and keep turning the bejesus out of it through the ball.


And secondly, what is Matt's last name and where does he play? That man has ball strike and as your student, speaks volumes about your ability to communicate your ideas effectively.

I think you are doing an awesome job mate. Thanks for sharing your passion for golf with others.

#1020 slicefixer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 09:48 PM

[quote name='Dougall' date='Jun 22 2008, 10:41 PM' post='1131856']
Hey Slicefixer,

Had a couple of questions for you.

Firstly, I'm a bit of a hogan disciple

You and me both........:russian_roulette:

, definitely think his golf swing is the one to try an emulate. My question is, how do you think he created such terrific posture angles on the downswing, especially considering his setup seemed to be built more for comfort. It seems to me that so many talented modern players start with a rigid spine angle only to back out of it and have to reach for it with a straight right arm at impact.

Well, at one time, Mr. Hogan had poor impact angles.......pre 46'......finally got some footage this year to SEE them/it.......post 46' he did whatever it took to get to his left side and then really rotated around it.......post 49' his swing noticeably tightened up a LOT (probably because of the accident) and he began to play more and more from his right side in the downswing.....to a point where in the 78' Coleman footage he's actually "sliding" a bit right in his backswing with the driver......(which tells me he KNEW he had to get to his right side somehow, in other words he wasn't hangin' on his left side with no weight transference to the right in the backswing as some have implied/stated) ...........

Normally when you see a guy "backing out of it" (which is what you described below perfectly) they have, at one time, played from a bit steep in the backswing and ingrained the "back out and drop in" move to get the clubhead attacking from the inside.......problem with this is, a lot of times the clubhead ends up attacking from too far inside and a "down the line" release is the only option as the arms are being "directed" more "out and away" from the body in the impact zone..... .IF you fix the "steep" backswing and continue to transition in the same manner ("up and back") you've got a very serious problem......backswing doesn't "match" the transition/downswing.......



I for one have played with this loss of posture-time it up with the hands move for years and was wondering how you would recommend reconditioning oneself to hit it solely with the body. In my case the club is dead on plane... just gets out of sequence with my body, looks to me like my right hip gets a bit high starting down and when my elbow gets trapped behind it, my body is forced to stop, my right arm straightens and I flip it over. I would love to just open up like Hogan and keep turning the bejesus out of it through the ball.

IF the arms/club are on a reasonable plane, then I'd bet your arms are getting behind you ("out of synch") in the backswing......and/or they are getting behind you due to "backing out" which, as I stated above, creates a LOT problems in the downswing........and what you described above is 100% accurate to just this.......another thing is this, IF a person REALLY wants to "rotate" in the downswing then they better have the arms/club in synch and on a reasonable plane and not "have far to go" in transition to get to their left side/left pivot point/left leg........cause if they do then they will be in a real pickle.......drive the lower spine/body laterally to get to their left side, which will result in arms/club that are on plane dropping below it (and all the assorted problems).......or they don't reach their left pivot point and end up "spinning" a bit and falling away from the target in the impact zone/finish......OR they end up working their entire body laterally a LOT and end up too much on top of the ball and have hell squaring the clubface up while the ball is on the face........that's why I preach SET UP all the time........and preach NOT sliding in the backswing, but, winding up/rotating........


And secondly, what is Matt's last name and where does he play? That man has ball strike and as your student, speaks volumes about your ability to communicate your ideas effectively.'

His name is Matt Loving and he's playing the Gateway in D/FW this summer........won our TX State Open  last summer........IF he can get his short game even remotely as good as his long game and get his head on "right" he's got a chance to do some great things in the future......when he's swinging well he's the best ball striker I've ever seen strike a golf ball.......his swing, when swinging well, exhibits everything I believe in 100%........of course, when  he's not swinging well I don't want to "claim him".......hehehehe ;)

I think you are doing an awesome job mate. Thanks for sharing your passion for golf with others.

Your most welcome my friend!  It gives me great joy/satisfaction and a big smile to do so....... ;)

Edited by slicefixer, 23 June 2008 - 09:53 PM.


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