[juansky]

What happened to the volume....I cant hear anything?

[6t4gt0]

I read posts like this and realize I know didly squat about the golf swing, I just aim and go but I do remember the first lesson (after knee surgery) I took and the pro had me doing this type of drill 9:00 to 3:00 and he had me think toe up to toe up. I forgot how well I used to hit it with this little swing, don't remember much other than toe up to toe up but I will put this in my practice routine again.

[juansky]

Well, I didn't see anything eye opening. I've seen this drill many times......although it's not easy to do. Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward. need to keep the head behind the ball through impact. Don't start the down swing from the top...but let the hands drop to about waist high and then wallop the ball for crisp contact, need to make sure the left side of the hip clears properly. So not as easy as it looks..............

[slicefixer]

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

Well, I didn't see anything eye opening. I've seen this drill many times......although it's not easy to do. Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward. need to keep the head behind the ball through impact. Don't start the down swing from the top...but let the hands drop to about waist high and then wallop the ball for crisp contact, need to make sure the left side of the hip clears properly. So not as easy as it looks..............

Well, maybe not in the exact way I teach it though.........and once you get the basic "framwork" of the 9 to 3 down cold you can then perform just about ANY swing drill from this basic framework.......

"Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward"

Yep, weight is set left and stays there.......but in a more full version there is a weight transition......watch the kid with the Ignite staff bag sitting beside him..........

"but let the hands drop to about waist high"

The hands/arms are PULLED down by the pivot.......it could easily be described as "dropping," but, they are actually being PULLED "downplane"........IF you feel that you have to "drop and THEN turn" your arms are "out of synch".........

All in all, your correct......nothing revolutionary and I never said it was.........

And there is no volume as I had about 10 people in my bldg. at the time I was burning the stuff to dvd........wouldn't have worked unless you wanted to hear 5 or em' talking politics and the other 5 playing......

[dminn23]

I thought the most intriguing part (for me) of the drill was how the back of the right hand faced the target in the 3 o'clock position, arms left of chest, club shaft pretty vertical, not as much tilted to the left, with the shoulders square to target. Should I strive to end up there or am I misinterpreting the drill due to looking at it from the angles in the video.

Obviously the finish tells you a lot about how you got there so I *think* this should be important to me.

[rankoutsider]

there might be nothing revolutionary in the drill (although i had the priviledge of learning it from slice himself, so i do feel i know about 10 different aspects of it that you can't really "learn" unless he watches you do it and corrects that-- still, his explanations have been fantastic) but there doesn't have to be to make it effective.

in my opinion, this is the best way to learn the swing and to groove it yourself-- find the release and work backwards to a fuller swing. this is so much better than someone telling you to "get your elbow here on the backswing" or "keep your head steady" with no clear picture of how you get the club through the impact zone from that point. and guys who are talking about "taking little swings" -- that isn't the point of the drill at all, but that has already been covered a few times now.

rank

[juansky]

I was in my back yard trying out what you said about the pivot and arms working together. I'm starting to feel as though my pivot is what makes contact with the ball. It feels like my pivot rotates around my left hip and my hands release around my body instead of releasing towards the target....does that sound right? Or am I doing it wrong.....thanks!

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

Well, I didn't see anything eye opening. I've seen this drill many times......although it's not easy to do. Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward. need to keep the head behind the ball through impact. Don't start the down swing from the top...but let the hands drop to about waist high and then wallop the ball for crisp contact, need to make sure the left side of the hip clears properly. So not as easy as it looks..............

Well, maybe not in the exact way I teach it though.........and once you get the basic "framwork" of the 9 to 3 down cold you can then perform just about ANY swing drill from this basic framework.......

"Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward"

Yep, weight is set left and stays there.......but in a more full version there is a weight transition......watch the kid with the Ignite staff bag sitting beside him..........

"but let the hands drop to about waist high"

The hands/arms are PULLED down by the pivot.......it could easily be described as "dropping," but, they are actually being PULLED "downplane"........IF you feel that you have to "drop and THEN turn" your arms are "out of synch".........

All in all, your correct......nothing revolutionary and I never said it was.........

And there is no volume as I had about 10 people in my bldg. at the time I was burning the stuff to dvd........wouldn't have worked unless you wanted to hear 5 or em' talking politics and the other 5 playing......

[Golfdog]

Mr. Fixer,

Thanks for posting that vid. There is a lot of helpful stuff in there. I'm not sure why these little pissing contests pop up in these threads so often. I'm glad you're willing to stay above the fray and help us hackers.

[rankoutsider]

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

I was in my back yard trying out what you said about the pivot and arms working together. I'm starting to feel as though my pivot is what makes contact with the ball. It feels like my pivot rotates around my left hip and my hands release around my body instead of releasing towards the target....does that sound right? Or am I doing it wrong.....thanks!

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

Well, I didn't see anything eye opening. I've seen this drill many times......although it's not easy to do. Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward. need to keep the head behind the ball through impact. Don't start the down swing from the top...but let the hands drop to about waist high and then wallop the ball for crisp contact, need to make sure the left side of the hip clears properly. So not as easy as it looks..............

Well, maybe not in the exact way I teach it though.........and once you get the basic "framwork" of the 9 to 3 down cold you can then perform just about ANY swing drill from this basic framework.......

"Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward"

Yep, weight is set left and stays there.......but in a more full version there is a weight transition......watch the kid with the Ignite staff bag sitting beside him..........

"but let the hands drop to about waist high"

The hands/arms are PULLED down by the pivot.......it could easily be described as "dropping," but, they are actually being PULLED "downplane"........IF you feel that you have to "drop and THEN turn" your arms are "out of synch".........

All in all, your correct......nothing revolutionary and I never said it was.........

And there is no volume as I had about 10 people in my bldg. at the time I was burning the stuff to dvd........wouldn't have worked unless you wanted to hear 5 or em' talking politics and the other 5 playing......

slice can answer when he has a minute, but my understanding is that this is the perfect feeling you are trying to ingrain. club releases to the left as the hands/arms turn with the body. exactly right.

[slicefixer]

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

I was in my back yard trying out what you said about the pivot and arms working together. I'm starting to feel as though my pivot is what makes contact with the ball. It feels like my pivot rotates around my left hip and my hands release around my body instead of releasing towards the target....does that sound right? Or am I doing it wrong.....thanks!

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

Well, I didn't see anything eye opening. I've seen this drill many times......although it's not easy to do. Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward. need to keep the head behind the ball through impact. Don't start the down swing from the top...but let the hands drop to about waist high and then wallop the ball for crisp contact, need to make sure the left side of the hip clears properly. So not as easy as it looks..............

Well, maybe not in the exact way I teach it though.........and once you get the basic "framwork" of the 9 to 3 down cold you can then perform just about ANY swing drill from this basic framework.......

"Things to take into consideration is not moving the pelvic pivot forward"

Yep, weight is set left and stays there.......but in a more full version there is a weight transition......watch the kid with the Ignite staff bag sitting beside him..........

"but let the hands drop to about waist high"

The hands/arms are PULLED down by the pivot.......it could easily be described as "dropping," but, they are actually being PULLED "downplane"........IF you feel that you have to "drop and THEN turn" your arms are "out of synch".........

All in all, your correct......nothing revolutionary and I never said it was.........

And there is no volume as I had about 10 people in my bldg. at the time I was burning the stuff to dvd........wouldn't have worked unless you wanted to hear 5 or em' talking politics and the other 5 playing......

Your DEAD ON Juan........dead on.......

[juansky]

Cool thanks for the help.....It feels much more connected and more powerful. I'll have to hit the range this week and see what type of ball flight and distance I get.

[slicefixer]

Golfdog, on Mar 3 2008, 06:25 PM, said:

Mr. Fixer,

Thanks for posting that vid. There is a lot of helpful stuff in there. I'm not sure why these little pissing contests pop up in these threads so often. I'm glad you're willing to stay above the fray and help us hackers.

Been dealing with "doubters"/"critics"/"sh#t disturbers" ALL of my life.......and to be honest, none of the criticism so far has been out of line or disrespectful IMOP.......there are a LOT of golfers who are VERY frustrated by prior teachers/instruction and they have a "chip" and then can "vent" a bit at times.......I KNOW I did at one time.....there are others who are jealous/envious whenever anyone gets any attention and just can't stand it and have to spout off.......don't see any of that so far..........and then there is the crowd who are TRYING to reinvent the wheel and are frustrated because it just keeps coming up round......and they are frustrated when they figure out they haven't invented anything.and that somebody else DOES already know what they think they "invented".......so criticism is "par" for this deal.......probably most others as well........NO worries as it takes a LOT to get me really "stirred up"......btw, I know I haven't "invented" anything beyond my WAY of teaching what I teach.......there are others who "know".....sometimes NOT very many "others," but there are others.......Tesla and Edison is one of the greatest examples......

[gonjam24]

dminn23, on Mar 3 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

I thought the most intriguing part (for me) of the drill was how the back of the right hand faced the target in the 3 o'clock position, arms left of chest, club shaft pretty vertical, not as much tilted to the left, with the shoulders square to target. Should I strive to end up there or am I misinterpreting the drill due to looking at it from the angles in the video.

Obviously the finish tells you a lot about how you got there so I *think* this should be important to me.

does this sound about right SF

[slicefixer]

thought the most intriguing part (for me) of the drill was how the back of the right hand faced the target in the 3 o'clock position,

Do you mean the target line? IF so, then perfect..........


arms left of chest Yep


, club shaft pretty vertical.....yep, about a 45........,


with the shoulders square to target. IF you mean "facing" the target........yep

Should I strive to end up there or am I misinterpreting the drill due to looking at it from the angles in the video. Sounds dead on.........


Obviously the finish tells you a lot about how you got there so I *think* this should be important to me Yessir, 100%.........I always say this, "with most players, the finish of a golf swing is not normally artificial, but, a result of what went on before it".........

[fats]

and then there is the crowd who are TRYING to reinvent the wheel and are frustrated because it just keeps coming up round.

Slicefixer


Triple ROFL...great line...I'm stealin' it fer sure.

Fats

[gators77]

Awesome video, truly some VERY sound golf swings in there...
Slice who is the last golfer that, if my eyes are right, is playing in the Masters?!?!?

[hoganfan924]

juansky, on Mar 3 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

Cool thanks for the help.....It feels much more connected and more powerful. I'll have to hit the range this week and see what type of ball flight and distance I get.

Sounds like you just had you "eyes opened." I'm happy for you.

The point isn't distance though, just learning to ingrain a good solid impact with the arms and body working together correctly. When you get that down cold (could take a while) then you can stretch it out bigger and bigger over time 'till it turns into a full swing.

Good luck

[GOLF FTW]

im just wondering,

why did hogan set up closed for drives?

i realized that when i set up closed i usually hit it straight to my target line, or hit a push-fade..

any answers?

[hoganfan924]

GOLF FTW, on Mar 3 2008, 08:47 PM, said:

im just wondering,

why did hogan set up closed for drives?

i realized that when i set up closed i usually hit it straight to my target line, or hit a push-fade..

any answers?

Rather than "closed" I think of his driver set-up as more one in which he pulled his right foot back a few inches after setting up parallel left, since his upper body was still parallel to the target line. The right foot being pulled back allows for a deeper turn in the backswing, getting him more wound up for a fuller, more powerful swing, IMO. More a personal preference and not a "fundamental" IMO.

Oh, and see below. hehehe

[slicefixer]

GOLF FTW, on Mar 3 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

im just wondering,

why did hogan set up closed for drives?

i realized that when i set up closed i usually hit it straight to my target line, or hit a push-fade..

any answers?

Easy, allows a person to turn/wind "deeper" ....."wind up to their maximum"......which creates a more "inside" and shallower angle of attack, a longer ARC to create speed, and more potential energy to unload.......btw, if your constantly push fading try strengthening your grip SLIGHTLY........many times those pushes/fades stop immediately and you hit it dead straight to a slight draw........

[drew123]

slicefixer, on Mar 2 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

....and I'd be more than happy to host you ANYtime you like.......and your dead on 100% correct about FEEL.......I say this ALL THE TIME, "to become a PLAYER you MUST turn technical thought into feel".......and I spend a LOT of time bending, glue'n, sawin' trying to create something to do just that.......I also am CONSTANTLY on the search for more images/thoughts to "paint" something technical into something that's EASY for most players to conceive/picture/FEEL.......IMOP, that's what truly great teachers do within their teaching, they FIND a way, find YOUR way, of FEELING a change......beit through a drill/image/strap/stick, etc. That's EXACTLY what I do Diesel.........100%

Great, Great post.

one of the things I have come to admire about you SF is how you took all the knowledge you had accumulated from many teachers and molded them into your swing method. The way I had thought for some time now.

Great video BTW.

[GOLF FTW]

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

GOLF FTW, on Mar 3 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

im just wondering,

why did hogan set up closed for drives?

i realized that when i set up closed i usually hit it straight to my target line, or hit a push-fade..

any answers?

Easy, allows a person to turn/wind "deeper" ....."wind up to their maximum"......which creates a more "inside" and shallower angle of attack, a longer ARC to create speed, and more potential energy to unload.......btw, if your constantly push fading try strengthening your grip SLIGHTLY........many times those pushes/fades stop immediately and you hit it dead straight to a slight draw........

i probably should do that, my grip is a little on the weak side. every now and again i bomb it straight with a slight draw, but, most of the time its about 15 yards shorter with a pushfade-ish ballflight. only with my driver.

maybe i'm swinging to hard?

i'm just so afraid of hooking it i've just dealt with the pushfades

[banshee]

does it matter which club you do this drill with? Should you start with wedges until you got it down pat then move up?

[slicefixer]

GOLF FTW, on Mar 3 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

GOLF FTW, on Mar 3 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

im just wondering,

why did hogan set up closed for drives?

i realized that when i set up closed i usually hit it straight to my target line, or hit a push-fade..

any answers?

Easy, allows a person to turn/wind "deeper" ....."wind up to their maximum"......which creates a more "inside" and shallower angle of attack, a longer ARC to create speed, and more potential energy to unload.......btw, if your constantly push fading try strengthening your grip SLIGHTLY........many times those pushes/fades stop immediately and you hit it dead straight to a slight draw........

i probably should do that, my grip is a little on the weak side. every now and again i bomb it straight with a slight draw, but, most of the time its about 15 yards shorter with a pushfade-ish ballflight. only with my driver.

maybe i'm swinging to hard?

i'm just so afraid of hooking it i've just dealt with the pushfades

Might be the driver/shaft.........could be the club is too long.......could be it's fade biased (in which case you just slap some tape in the heel.......which I HIGHLY recommend anyway and is the easiest way for an inside -out pusher to hit a draw/straight ball).......

[slicefixer]

banshee, on Mar 3 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

does it matter which club you do this drill with? Should you start with wedges until you got it down pat then move up?

Yes, a short iron........I recommend a SW/LW......once you get it down then you can move up to a 7 iron......nothing longer as there is no real benefit..... But, once you have it down the "impact zone" will be ingrained and then it's NO big deal to move onto a full swing with any club in your bag.......

[juansky]

That's good to know because I was doing the drill with my 3 iron and was struggling......I kept hitting fat shots. It could be that my arms are being left behind? I'll try the short irons tomorrow.

slicefixer, on Mar 3 2008, 10:30 PM, said:

banshee, on Mar 3 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

does it matter which club you do this drill with? Should you start with wedges until you got it down pat then move up?

Yes, a short iron........I recommend a SW/LW......once you get it down then you can move up to a 7 iron......nothing longer as there is no real benefit..... But, once you have it down the "impact zone" will be ingrained and then it's NO big deal to move onto a full swing with any club in your bag.......

[Tigersworld]

Slicefixer I just want to say thank you on your sound advise. I would bet someone who lives in Isleworth is listening. And controlled compression and ballflight feels so great now. With a little mirror work I tweaked my plane a little because it was getting to flat now the feel is unreal after day 25 I know where that club is at all times. Hail to Slicefixer's 9 to 3 drill.

JuNiOR

[procomboil]

Just managed to see the whole video......THANKS SLICE!!!!!

I have tried this drill on and off with some success but looking at the angles at setup this could help me ingrain the feeling.

The drill looks great with the ball between the arms......another piece of SLICE MAGIC

[TEConnor]

I agree that this video is fantastic...thanks to Shaq and Slice for putting it up. I loved the nuggets of the extra footage in the beginning and the CHIII vid from the Masters.

About Howell doing the 9 to 3 drill. In watching him, I'm thinking that he could do well from a little advice from Slicefixer. (side note, this must be from two-to-three years ago when CHIII left Leadbetter, cause in GD last year, CHIII is back to doing the "L to L" release in a spread.) He's almost got the drill down, but his release is a little bit "underneath" and "down-the-line." I wonder if this is why CHIII never took to the rotary swing changes that he was making and went running back to Leadbetter...

The "down-the-line" release is so very tough to get away from for some of us old-fashioned gun-slinging Freddy Couples admirers. It's something that I have struggled with as my last "hurdle" and ever since Slicefixer politely showed me I was incorrect in my understanding of the different releases, I've had a major breakthrough in my understanding of the swing. This 9-to-3 drill of yours Slice is the real deal. So simple, yet absolutely the penicilin for the flip release.

I've been playing this game since around the time of the bicentennial and been doing it at a fairly high level several of these decades. I've been to a dozen highly respected pros (three of them considered "great" teachers among their peers), but I think that Slicefixer has probably shown more insight then all of them combined. I agree with the statement above that you might want to get to Texarkana while the getting is good, cause there will be limited space in a short time.

Tim

[addamsmith]

Thanks Slice and Pete,
Great footage there guys
Best wishes
Addam

[dminn23]

I did a couple hundred last night with great results, practicing with LW to 7 iron. Very crisp contact, good compression, a penetrating ball flight.

Much more work to do but I'm happy with the results thus far.

I think the thing that was absolutely, positively, truly, unquestionably, unambiguously, definitely, and precisely critical: The setup.

A good stance is not just getting the back shoulder lower, sticking the @a** out, and bending the knees. I see guys at the range constantly that are working on their swing, from behind, their setup looks like the Eiffel tower. NOT GOOD!

The critical thing for me with the shorter clubs is getting that left hip more in line with my left foot. This seems to be critical for kicking in that right knee and getting the reverse K position. A much different feeling if your not used to it, but it seems to set the tone for a simple turn. It tightens that swing up and I feel better rotation all the way around, the right hip is allowed to move back, very simple.

Just for clarification, this is what SF preached in that document that is going around, and for me, it is making a huge difference.

[PurePursuit]

Exactly dminn.. The set up/grip are two of the most important but over looked parts of the golf swing. Slice has been talking about the set up with short irons (weight positioned on left side ....left hip over left foot...) for a while and it really came out in the S&T thread, just not the way to set up for a driver but certainly great for short irons in order to compress the snot out of the ball.

[mizuno67]

i was going to post something but i better not lol

[rankoutsider]

mizuno67, on Mar 4 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

i was going to post something but i better not lol

well that really has me curious, since you haven't been shy about stirring it up in the past. don't tell me this is a kinder, gentler mizuno67.

[Diesel]

are you guys saying that Slice teaches something along the lines of the S&T...? i must have missed the whole setup with the weight being a little more to the left in the setup...

and what kind of grip does slice promote...? neutral, strong, weak...?

[PurePursuit]

I wouldn't word it like that Diesel, he just teaches a set up which favors a strong left sided weight distribution for short irons and wedges. Stack without the tilt, and only with the short irons/wedges. The grip he described to me was left hand strong (2 knuckles or more) and right hand weak (V from the thumb and pointer pointing at the chin) overlapping grip. If you go and read the huge S&T thread you'll see he agrees that stacking weight on your left side in the set up is something he's been teaching for wedges/short irons for a while..

(keep in mind this is merely me paraphrasing stuff I've read from his past posts.)

[dminn23]

DieselMp32, on Mar 4 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

are you guys saying that Slice teaches something along the lines of the S&T...? i must have missed the whole setup with the weight being a little more to the left in the setup...

and what kind of grip does slice promote...? neutral, strong, weak...?

Certainly not stack and tilt. I would call it a pure rotary swing. Wait is on left side for shorter clubs to set you up for more compression, hitting down, trapping the hell out of it.

I don't know much about S&T, but I don't *think* they promote the Reverse K setup, where I know slice does.

As far as grip, I've never heard him promote a weak one, I would said neutral/strong. I would prefer to let him speak for himself. Actually, read the document floating around.

[rankoutsider]

DieselMp32, on Mar 4 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

are you guys saying that Slice teaches something along the lines of the S&T...? i must have missed the whole setup with the weight being a little more to the left in the setup...

and what kind of grip does slice promote...? neutral, strong, weak...?

not at all. he teaches you to "stack" your weight forward on the setup, but there is never any move toward the target with your head, and if he ever saw you "tilting" he would explain all that is wrong with that kind of move. he has explained this at length on the board if you do an advanced search. or you can wait about five minutes and that topic might come up again....

so, lots of "stack" but a fairly obvious pivot into your right side and a good hard rotation into the ball. passive arms and hands are a benefit here. if you can really educate your hands to allow the club to release instead of trying to release it, you will really "get" this swing, in my humble opinion, since it will eliminate half of the golf course. Or, as slice said to me after i was hitting high soft fades for a day and a half, you can stand on the first tee in any tournament, and no matter how nervous you might be, you will know that physics is your friend.

fantastic instruction, in my opinion. OK, I'll stop now, I am embarrassing him.

[Diesel]

gotcha...

i'm sure he'll revisit us here again, so i'll throw this out there for him...

when i hit 3/4 wedges and such i never shift any weight to the right side, is this what you are promoting for all your short irons, even full shots...?

what are you teaching as far as mid-long irons and woods, as far as weight distribution and shift during the swing...?

i've been taught setup with my weight distributed evenly, and then as i turn to drop my weight to the inside of my right foot, and turn around it...

apparently you teach to initiate the downswing with the unwind, and not so much of a bump...? is that true for all clubs...?

[hoganfan924]

OK, better clarify something here before people get the wrong idea.

The "stack" in S&T is the fact that the "upper and lower swing centers" (centers of gravity of upper and lower torso) are vertically stacked at address. Slice does not teach this. He wants to see some axis tilt at address (face-on view spine angle). AKA "reverse K set-up." This is crucial to his teaching philosophy. Watch the video again and see the stick drawing he overlayed on the player from behind. You could have 90% of your weight on your front foot at address and still have a "reverse K" posture. What will appear "stacked" in Slice's set-up is the front leg & side (foot, hip, shoulder) when swinging a short or mid-iron.

When you turn (pivot) from this set-up, there will be a weight transfer to the back foot, but most definitely not a shift or sway.