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How did geoff get you into a posistion that you feel like an 'elastic band'?
Also did he advocate attempting to push your left heel into the ground throughout the backswing?
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This forum was created to help golfers of all skill levels to improve their game. As this forum is named, it is an Academy with Instructors that will come from different schools of thought. One is not necessarily better than the other nor will one method fit all. We will allow thoughtful and spirited discussions but, no personal attacks. This is an opportunity for everyone to bring their thoughts and issues to the range without fear of being ridiculed.
9/3 Drill and much..much..more
On Behalf of SliceFixer.
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#2561
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 848
- Joined: 13-October 08
- Member: 67531
- Location:Tunbridge Wells, UK.
Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:42 PM
Quote
#2562
Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:24 AM
He repeatedly talks about Hogan's elastic bands and fully winding up. But I thought that was to optimize power which I am NOT interested in. It turns out that a complete windup automates my entire swing because it sets in motion a chain of events driven by physics instead of manipulation. I am a believer.
#2563
Posted 25 January 2010 - 09:11 PM
I have just finished reading and studying this entire thread as well as SF's 200-page treatise on how one can execute a golf swing with efficiency, simplicity and power and I am absolutely amazed how this turns current golf instruction on its head. A few things stand out almost immediately--though there are many more: how weight distribution determines ball position; how pivoting correctly right and left reduces or eliminates lateral motion; how the transition just happens (thanks Geoff for giving me the permission to stop trying to execute this and allowing it to just happen--very liberating!); how pulling left, low and hard at first is a leap of great faith but turns into great ballstriking--when I do it right I don't feel the ball on the clubface--absolutely incredible!
One observation that might help: when we watch pro golf swings our eye captures mostly more circular and lateral motions, it seems to me. What's harder to detect is that good golf swings, like Geoff is teaching I think, use ground forces to power it. So using ground forces allows one to turn into the right hip/pelvis on the BS, instead of over the right hip. Ground forces allow us to absolutely pound it in the DS. Watch high speed/slo mo of swings of Tiger, Alvaro Quiros, Bubba Watson from behind and you will see some of this, among other interesting things. Look at their swings from the front face-on and you're dazzled by hip, arm and shoulder rotation--not and shouldn't be the whole story, and not what we should necessarily focus on IMHO.
Anyway, just an incredible thread with insightful postings from everyone. Thankfully, I found it and I look foward to checking in. I haven't seen SF on lately, I'm sure he's quite busy. If any knows when his book is coming out and when the website will be up, please let me know.
One observation that might help: when we watch pro golf swings our eye captures mostly more circular and lateral motions, it seems to me. What's harder to detect is that good golf swings, like Geoff is teaching I think, use ground forces to power it. So using ground forces allows one to turn into the right hip/pelvis on the BS, instead of over the right hip. Ground forces allow us to absolutely pound it in the DS. Watch high speed/slo mo of swings of Tiger, Alvaro Quiros, Bubba Watson from behind and you will see some of this, among other interesting things. Look at their swings from the front face-on and you're dazzled by hip, arm and shoulder rotation--not and shouldn't be the whole story, and not what we should necessarily focus on IMHO.
Anyway, just an incredible thread with insightful postings from everyone. Thankfully, I found it and I look foward to checking in. I haven't seen SF on lately, I'm sure he's quite busy. If any knows when his book is coming out and when the website will be up, please let me know.
#2564
Posted 25 January 2010 - 09:51 PM
TM22721
Thank you for the description of creating an automatic swing via the elastic band reference.If possible could you describe the process of creating this elastic feeling in a little more detail.Do you press down on the left heel during the setup or later during the backswing?.Do you feel a stretching pressure on the right side of your back at the top of your swing?Are there any specific drills or props that Slicefixer used to reinforce this feeling?
Thank you for the description of creating an automatic swing via the elastic band reference.If possible could you describe the process of creating this elastic feeling in a little more detail.Do you press down on the left heel during the setup or later during the backswing?.Do you feel a stretching pressure on the right side of your back at the top of your swing?Are there any specific drills or props that Slicefixer used to reinforce this feeling?
#2565
Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:05 AM
Paul E, on 25 January 2010 - 08:11 PM, said:
I have just finished reading and studying this entire thread as well as SF's 200-page treatise on how one can execute a golf swing with efficiency, simplicity and power and I am absolutely amazed how this turns current golf instruction on its head. A few things stand out almost immediately--though there are many more: how weight distribution determines ball position; how pivoting correctly right and left reduces or eliminates lateral motion; how the transition just happens (thanks Geoff for giving me the permission to stop trying to execute this and allowing it to just happen--very liberating!); how pulling left, low and hard at first is a leap of great faith but turns into great ballstriking--when I do it right I don't feel the ball on the clubface--absolutely incredible!
One observation that might help: when we watch pro golf swings our eye captures mostly more circular and lateral motions, it seems to me. What's harder to detect is that good golf swings, like Geoff is teaching I think, use ground forces to power it. So using ground forces allows one to turn into the right hip/pelvis on the BS, instead of over the right hip. Ground forces allow us to absolutely pound it in the DS. Watch high speed/slo mo of swings of Tiger, Alvaro Quiros, Bubba Watson from behind and you will see some of this, among other interesting things. Look at their swings from the front face-on and you're dazzled by hip, arm and shoulder rotation--not and shouldn't be the whole story, and not what we should necessarily focus on IMHO.
Anyway, just an incredible thread with insightful postings from everyone. Thankfully, I found it and I look foward to checking in. I haven't seen SF on lately, I'm sure he's quite busy. If any knows when his book is coming out and when the website will be up, please let me know.
One observation that might help: when we watch pro golf swings our eye captures mostly more circular and lateral motions, it seems to me. What's harder to detect is that good golf swings, like Geoff is teaching I think, use ground forces to power it. So using ground forces allows one to turn into the right hip/pelvis on the BS, instead of over the right hip. Ground forces allow us to absolutely pound it in the DS. Watch high speed/slo mo of swings of Tiger, Alvaro Quiros, Bubba Watson from behind and you will see some of this, among other interesting things. Look at their swings from the front face-on and you're dazzled by hip, arm and shoulder rotation--not and shouldn't be the whole story, and not what we should necessarily focus on IMHO.
Anyway, just an incredible thread with insightful postings from everyone. Thankfully, I found it and I look foward to checking in. I haven't seen SF on lately, I'm sure he's quite busy. If any knows when his book is coming out and when the website will be up, please let me know.
Paul,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. This is the simplest thing I've tried in my 6 years of golf. The only thought I need have in my head is turn back then, turn HARD forward. When I do it correctly, it's a beautiful thing. It's as if the ball is on a rope.
I'm committed to sticking with this "method". Can't wait for warm weather to reappear...
#2566
Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:57 PM
headed to texarkana tomorrow for my second trip. gonna be fun
#2567
Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:55 AM
I have a problem, last season i started practicing this drill, and after a little while it all snapped into place and i have never had better and purer shots than i did when it all worked! I could almost feel how i compressed the $#% out of the ball and it went for miles!
So after a long offseason here in Norway (October-May) i´m starting using my local indoor practice facilities but i can`t seem to find my way back to that great feeling of just turning instead of hitting..
The closest i come to it is when i position myself with my front leg way back and open, almost like a knockdown shot, but with a very open stance and set my shoulders open at setup. Then i can almost feel like my body goes, and my hands and club is lagging behind, and at impact my shoulders are open.
Should i continue this "drill" and just move my front foot closer to normal setup for each time?
Please help me get a good start on this season
So after a long offseason here in Norway (October-May) i´m starting using my local indoor practice facilities but i can`t seem to find my way back to that great feeling of just turning instead of hitting..
The closest i come to it is when i position myself with my front leg way back and open, almost like a knockdown shot, but with a very open stance and set my shoulders open at setup. Then i can almost feel like my body goes, and my hands and club is lagging behind, and at impact my shoulders are open.
Should i continue this "drill" and just move my front foot closer to normal setup for each time?
Please help me get a good start on this season
#2568
Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:57 PM
rockwallraider, on 26 January 2010 - 09:57 PM, said:
headed to texarkana tomorrow for my second trip. gonna be fun
I'm seriously considering making a visit to Geoff in the Spring. Please do report back of your experience down in Texarkana.
#2569
Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:14 PM
I recently started working with John "Lag" Erickson, and he believes in almost the exact same things as Geoff (Actually I'd bet they wouldn't disagree on anything). I have no idea if they know of each other, but it's eerie how similar their beliefs are. It was nice to find someone who teaches a similar rotary/ ground force/ Hoganesque swing. The instruction is all done via the internet in a module format that really suits my lifestyle and timeline.
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
#2570
Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:01 AM
just got back today from another wonderful visit to texarkana. met 2 of Geoffs students as well. one had come in from chicago and had been there since sunday, now that would be a great week. he helped me with my grip as it was off from my last visit. i bet he drew 10 lines on my glove. once he did that i could grip it right every time. next we worked on a deep turn. i was set up to hit a high fade and i have hit that shot since my last visit with him but since we did not talk about ball flight ect on my first trip i was not aware that i had my setup not quit right for stalk shots. and i can say that 99 % of shots i hit since i saw him were high fades that were very consistant but dont work well in the wind. hehe once he explained to me why and how to hit high fade, stalk, and low shots it all clicked. I was able to go back outside and do this which was a ton of fun. he actually gave me a video he had taken of matt where he had merged 2 swings, one a fade and one a draw. since the videos were right on top of each other it virtually looked like one swing and as the ball was hit it almost looked like as ball took off it split in half as one hooked and the other faded and you could not tell a damn bit of difference from the 2 swings. now that was an eye opener. i had no idea you could actually hit a well struck fade from the same inside position as a nice draw. pretty cool stuff. once i was able to make some deeper turns it was alot of fun to feel the ball being compressed. looking forward to being able to go to the golf coarse and having a sound set of fundementals to work with. for the first time in my life i feel i have a little sayso in what the ball is going to do and not just what i hope it does. i was able to get to a 4.5 hcp with my swing before meeting geoff but never felt like a 4.5 because i would shoot 76 one day and 88 the next depending on how lucky i got that day guessing on how to swing the club so i am really looking forward to the new direction slice has given me. do yourself a favor and go see geoff.
#2571
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 261
- Joined: 21-February 09
- Member: 75844
- Location:Maidstone, SK, Canada
- Ebay ID:loomsey2001
Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:14 AM
.
#2572
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 848
- Joined: 13-October 08
- Member: 67531
- Location:Tunbridge Wells, UK.
Posted 28 January 2010 - 04:12 AM
Thats great to hear Rock.
I'm slightly disappointed as i was meant to be going to see dan tomorrow but due to unforseen circumstances at work i won't be able to make it. And to make matters worse i just got a £900 tax bill. Joy.
The trip to dan's is rebooked for the 13th of march so not too bad.
I'm slightly disappointed as i was meant to be going to see dan tomorrow but due to unforseen circumstances at work i won't be able to make it. And to make matters worse i just got a £900 tax bill. Joy.
The trip to dan's is rebooked for the 13th of march so not too bad.
#2573
Posted 28 January 2010 - 07:58 PM
move to texas, no state taxes and cost of living is pretty cheap and job market is great and woman are beautiful and
#2574
Posted 29 January 2010 - 06:46 AM
Cloran, on 27 January 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:
I recently started working with John "Lag" Erickson, and he believes in almost the exact same things as Geoff (Actually I'd bet they wouldn't disagree on anything). I have no idea if they know of each other, but it's eerie how similar their beliefs are. It was nice to find someone who teaches a similar rotary/ ground force/ Hoganesque swing. The instruction is all done via the internet in a module format that really suits my lifestyle and timeline.
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
I have taken lessons from both. SF teaches swinging and Erickson teaches hitting. Also Erickson teaches tons of wrist roll into impact and an extreme 4:30 inside approach into the ball @ club parallel 3. They both emphasize a CP body release and pronation of the left forearm. So I see little similarity.
#2575
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 1,474
- Joined: 20-September 07
- Member: 39690
- Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:38 AM
rockwallraider, on 28 January 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:
move to texas, no state taxes and cost of living is pretty cheap and job market is great and woman are beautiful and
and the golf courses are great, and Licks is amazing barbecue, and the live music is fantastic, and the weather is perfect except in August, and the Cowboys are close to solving their deal...
I'm sold on the place, but my wife won't do it.
#2576
Posted 29 January 2010 - 12:08 PM
Well, I live in Austin and we really don't need any more people !! I can tell ya Texarkana is a 5 1/2 hour drive to Geoff's. Six hours if your going to hunting lease.
I bet your wife would grow to love Austin. Honestly, I can't think of any reason not to, except traffic. I can't even think what I would do if I had to deal with snow !!!!!!!
I bet your wife would grow to love Austin. Honestly, I can't think of any reason not to, except traffic. I can't even think what I would do if I had to deal with snow !!!!!!!
#2577
Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:48 PM
tm22721, on 29 January 2010 - 06:46 AM, said:
Cloran, on 27 January 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:
I recently started working with John "Lag" Erickson, and he believes in almost the exact same things as Geoff (Actually I'd bet they wouldn't disagree on anything). I have no idea if they know of each other, but it's eerie how similar their beliefs are. It was nice to find someone who teaches a similar rotary/ ground force/ Hoganesque swing. The instruction is all done via the internet in a module format that really suits my lifestyle and timeline.
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
I have taken lessons from both. SF teaches swinging and Erickson teaches hitting. Also Erickson teaches tons of wrist roll into impact and an extreme 4:30 inside approach into the ball @ club parallel 3. They both emphasize a CP body release and pronation of the left forearm. So I see little similarity.
Do you have a preference between the two?
#2578
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 1,474
- Joined: 20-September 07
- Member: 39690
- Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posted 30 January 2010 - 02:20 PM
Greaseman1, on 29 January 2010 - 12:08 PM, said:
Well, I live in Austin and we really don't need any more people !! I can tell ya Texarkana is a 5 1/2 hour drive to Geoff's. Six hours if your going to hunting lease.
I bet your wife would grow to love Austin. Honestly, I can't think of any reason not to, except traffic. I can't even think what I would do if I had to deal with snow !!!!!!!
I bet your wife would grow to love Austin. Honestly, I can't think of any reason not to, except traffic. I can't even think what I would do if I had to deal with snow !!!!!!!
Spent a week in Austin two years ago for work before driving up to TXK to see Geoff. Loved every minute of being in Austin. Absolutely fantastic people and one of the most beautiful cities in the world--maybe the best place I have ever been, and that is a long list of places.
I told my wife how much she would love it if we moved there, but she wouldn't budge. It's a work in progress....
#2579
Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:20 AM
Cloran, on 29 January 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:
tm22721, on 29 January 2010 - 06:46 AM, said:
Cloran, on 27 January 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:
I recently started working with John "Lag" Erickson, and he believes in almost the exact same things as Geoff (Actually I'd bet they wouldn't disagree on anything). I have no idea if they know of each other, but it's eerie how similar their beliefs are. It was nice to find someone who teaches a similar rotary/ ground force/ Hoganesque swing. The instruction is all done via the internet in a module format that really suits my lifestyle and timeline.
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
Just as Slice says it takes 2 years of dedicated and focused practice to get to single digits or scratch... that's about the timeline I have set for my module work with Lag. It just works out nice.
I have been reading, re-reading, re-re-reading the Encyclopedia for well over a year now... probably closer to two I suppose, and I wait with baited breath for the book and website. The ET helped me go from shooting in the high 90's down to mid/high 80's. Now with the help of Lag I aim to be breaking 80 by the end of the summer.
While at the range today I was struggling a little with feeling connected. I just took a few 9-3 swings, and *boom* proceeded to hit 9 out of 10 8 irons onto the target green at 160 yds. The balls didn't waiver either way... just straight. Nice and high, landing soft. I was hitting them towards the toe, but that's another story... bottom line, they went straight, high and far.
I absolutely never would have been able to do that prior to finding Slice and the Wrx.
---
I just wanted to give my .02... Slice is the real deal. This thread is the real deal. The Encyclopedia Texarkana is the real deal. To anyone just finding this information that wants to build a great repeatable swing just start on page one of this thread and enjoy!!!
EDIT: I just wanted to add this: To everyone just starting out with the 9/3 drill realize that it may just become your real swing. When I started I thought I was coming back to 9 o'clock, but it was really more like 10 or 11... and that's far enough my friends.
Today at the range I was really trying to slice one off the planet. I'd get to the top of my backswing and fire my hips as fast and hard as possible, but the only thing that happened was the ball went straight, higher, and further... can't beat that!!!
I have taken lessons from both. SF teaches swinging and Erickson teaches hitting. Also Erickson teaches tons of wrist roll into impact and an extreme 4:30 inside approach into the ball @ club parallel 3. They both emphasize a CP body release and pronation of the left forearm. So I see little similarity.
Do you have a preference between the two?
Erickson's approach is for those with more upper body strength like me. SF's approach is for those of a slighter build who tend to be more flexible and fluid. I can execute SF's swing if I stretch at the top otherwise I decelerate.
#2580
Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:40 AM
Well, I guess you have to hope that one day your wife will get tired of being cold in the winter ! Of course I am sure the heat in the summer would be a shock to both of you.
Good luck, Kevin
Good luck, Kevin
#2581
Posted 02 February 2010 - 05:11 PM
Cloran--couldn't agree more. I am on about the same timeline as you as well. I noticed when I practice that if I think about really pressing by upper left arm into my upper pectoral as Hogan/SF recommend on the DS, I really feel the lag in the botttom of the trigger finger and I compress the hell out of it. Helps my tempo and balance as well.
Doing the drill where the heel leads the toe of the club helps me check my rotation and make sure I'm turning left and low as fast as I can. It's funny, when I forget to really add connection pressure on the DS, the ball doesn't behave as well. But I think the real secret to SF's genius is in the setup--grip, stance, posture and weight distribution. Getting that right takes so much pressure off my swing and allows me to perform without worrying about a million things--so much good flows from that. This is an amazing thread (as is the PBS one!).
Doing the drill where the heel leads the toe of the club helps me check my rotation and make sure I'm turning left and low as fast as I can. It's funny, when I forget to really add connection pressure on the DS, the ball doesn't behave as well. But I think the real secret to SF's genius is in the setup--grip, stance, posture and weight distribution. Getting that right takes so much pressure off my swing and allows me to perform without worrying about a million things--so much good flows from that. This is an amazing thread (as is the PBS one!).
#2582
Posted 02 February 2010 - 05:57 PM
Wow. 18 months later I finally understand what the ‘Transitions’ paragraph of the Encyclopedia Texarkana meant.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
#2583
Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:15 PM
mantan, on 02 February 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:
Wow. 18 months later I finally understand what the ‘Transitions’ paragraph of the Encyclopedia Texarkana meant.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
Interesting about your transition move. Right now what I do is make sure in the setup, that I have my 90* line--left foot outstep aligned with left hip. Left shoulder is off that line depending on club and is based on weigh distribution. I then turn in to my right side pivot, into my right hip, not over it, by making sure my right butt cheek backs up--this is how I start my BS and finish it, with right knee flex maintained to top.
In my transition, I try and align my left foot, knee and hip to that 90* angle and then let er rip. Lately I've been thinking about how to better get there. I want to get to that 90* position by ever so imperceptibly floating over to that position. It's hard to describe--it's almost like a shimmering, like I'm a high altitude bomb sighter looking straight down and ready to pull the trigger. The key for me is to be settled on that 90* left side. Getting there in a quiet, non-rushed way allows me to absolutely unwind with total abandon and power. Sorry, I'm probably not making much sense. A work, or thought, in process.
#2584
- dfw1500
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 1,208
- Joined: 08-March 06
- Member: 13194
- Location:Manchester England
Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:16 AM
tm22721, on 25 January 2010 - 06:24 AM, said:
He repeatedly talks about Hogan's elastic bands and fully winding up. But I thought that was to optimize power which I am NOT interested in. It turns out that a complete windup automates my entire swing because it sets in motion a chain of events driven by physics instead of manipulation. I am a believer.
The reason for the feeling of the winding up and the use of the image of the elastic bands is a s follows........when you make the correct pivot in the backswing you will feel that the left side DOES NOT slide over and that the right side is turning "backwards" this creates the "space" in the backswing......and when this occurs there is tension in the left side all the way from the left hip up to the left shoulder in the left lat, there will also be tension in the right groin/butt cheek and the flex in the right knee will be maintained........now this allows you to use the image of the elastic band and how the elsstic band will pull the left side through.
A strong image that can be translated to a training aid is having elastic bands/straps running from the left knee/thigh/hip/waist and shoulder all attached to a wall ahead and to the left of you now as you windup you will feel the body winding up and the bands being "stretched" to a maximum, then the stretch will go from the ground up as the left knee is pulled and "rotates" OVER the left ankle follwed "in synch" via the left hip, left abs and the left shoulder, this is the feeling of the elastic band pulling you back through and " letting it go"
Cheers Dan
#2585
- dfw1500
- Group: Peanut Gallery
- Posts: 1,208
- Joined: 08-March 06
- Member: 13194
- Location:Manchester England
Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:33 AM
nickGT, on 16 January 2010 - 09:18 AM, said:
I feel like such a tool. I watched the dvd dan made me when i was last with him and he explained getting the first 18inches ish was extremely important for me. For some unknown reason i seemed to neglect this information though 
Another good way to make a smart stick is to buy a laser pen off of ebay such as this.
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item3a56009974
Then tape it to the end of a broken golf shaft. And hey presto you have a smart stick.
Another good way to make a smart stick is to buy a laser pen off of ebay such as this.
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item3a56009974
Then tape it to the end of a broken golf shaft. And hey presto you have a smart stick.
The 1st move is often the most overlooked element of the golfswing as it is what sets the whole of the swing in motion.........movingthe club away in "1 pece" is SO important and how you do so is of equal imortance.......when you see players begin the swing with the left side you often see the club sucked awy too the inside and see it get stuck behind the hands and the right side.......instaed we should be seeing the right side turning away, because as the right side (hip and shoulder) begin the turning away the clkub is "dragged" away and kind of "lags" behind the hands....this move will "feel" like the clubhead is stuck still for a split moment and similar to when you have a shot in the rough and the clubhead "snags".......I have a club with a towel permanently attched to it and I leave a loose end of the towel hanging free from the clubhead, now with the loose towel ahead of the clubhead I begin to turn the right side away and the "tension" from the towel helps me to "feel" the clubhead being dragged away and gives the clubhead outside of the hands position...........when this is translated to the club you will see that the clubface remains "looking" at the ball for a long time during the 1st move and the hands stay the same distance from teh body that they started on...the clubhead may appear closed yet it is square to the arc and from here you can rotate the left arm to open the face and set the club to the plane
Cheers Dan
#2586
Posted 03 February 2010 - 10:50 AM
Dan
Both you and Slicefixer obviously have an in depth understanding of the golf swing and a genius at communicating how to develop a great golf swing.I regret that I am geographically a long distance away from both of you.
Both you and Slicefixer obviously have an in depth understanding of the golf swing and a genius at communicating how to develop a great golf swing.I regret that I am geographically a long distance away from both of you.
#2587
Posted 03 February 2010 - 03:23 PM
mantan, on 02 February 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:
Wow. 18 months later I finally understand what the ‘Transitions’ paragraph of the Encyclopedia Texarkana meant.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
Long story short. My swing journey with SF started back in October 2008. Lots of fits and starts trying to rebuild a broken pivot. Occasional breakthroughs (or as Geoff says 'lil victories') , but still some underlying demons that had to be corrected to finally get some consistent quality impact.
I was seeing Slice about once every 3-4 months. But this fall a new job, busy personal schedule and ankle injury made working out a day trip to Texarkana very difficult. That’s when I got lucky and stumbled on FtWorthGolfPro here on WRX. While he’s a VERY low profile guy on the board, I gleaned from his posts and a few PM’s that he was a former student of SF’s who’d worked with him for many years, played in college/mini tours and now teaches locally. He believed and taught the same approach to the swing. And best of all for me, he was local which meant I could see him and burn just a couple of hours instead of a whole day road trip.
Sometimes a slightly different way of saying things gets you over the hump. He complimented me on the progress SF and I have made. (One of the things I appreciated is that he was extremely respectful of Geoff’s knowledge and had a very humble in his approach. He readily admitted Geoff is one of a kind as an instructor and had nothing but great things to say about him as an instructor and person.) He thought my grip was very close and setup angles were fine. I was rotating in sync and releasing low and left. But I was still outside the plane, not folding my right arm correctly and not setting the club properly.
In the first lesson we worked mostly on the right elbow fold, which significantly helped lowered my dispersion. (Or as he said, just got me squared up more at the top.) I was hitting the ball straight, though a bit shorter than before and not trapping it. Second visit we worked on bringing the club back on plane (with a great visual that finally got me much closer to plane and just a touch over) and set. Things seemed improved. A remaining issue was not dropping my right shoulder and just rotating throughout the downswing….which felt 100 miles away from my old move…but worked when we did it.
As we are wrapping up he makes a comment that we may need to talk a little about transition. And he ‘shows’ me the move I may need to do to ‘settle’ (hard to describe) into my left pivot point. I make a mental note of it, but didn’t think much more about it as I hit a few more balls and headed out.
At the home range the next day I was hitting the ball fairly well while working the through the changes. But then I decided to just ‘try’ the transition move he mentioned. Holy schit! Suddenly I was consistently trapping the ball with every club with almost every swing. 9-3’s (can drill them all day long), full swings, wedges, mid-irons. It was like all of the pieces we put together fell into place. Or somehow like that transition move matches my new backswing with natural downswing move to get me where I need to be. I’ve been to the range several times since as well as 18 holes and it’s absolutely stuck. I still have to work very hard on my backswing/set – but when I do, I just use the transition move he showed me and my natural downswing.
I’d read the Encyclopedia dozens of times. I’d read the chapter on transition many times and was completely wrong about what it meant. Looking back, I mistakenly took it for how to do you ‘start’ the downswing and where do you feel it. But really it’s more about ‘how’ you get to the left pivot point to unwind.
And life Geoff said, I’m sure a lot of it is individual, based on the aspects/tendencies of your swing. My transition likely ‘fits’ my natural downswing more than somebody else’s. But for me, this transition makes a WORLD of difference with my swing.
As good as the Encyclopedia is and I’m sure the book will be, there is so much more to the live experience with someone who understand these concepts and can apply them to your swing. I don’t think he taught me something ‘different’ conceptually as much as he gave me a different way to think/understand the concepts I was struggling with.
Geoff always said it’s 2 years to rebuild a swing. I’m not where I want to be yet, but looking at the video at the end of my last lesson….I am SO much closer than I was two years ago.
Mantan,
Care to share the transition move tip your guy gave you? I understand the "your mileage may vary" part depending on the individual, but it might help others who are working on this method.
#2588
Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:57 PM
elmn8r, on 03 February 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:
[
Mantan,
Care to share the transition move tip your guy gave you? I understand the "your mileage may vary" part depending on the individual, but it might help others who are working on this method.
Mantan,
Care to share the transition move tip your guy gave you? I understand the "your mileage may vary" part depending on the individual, but it might help others who are working on this method.
It's one of those things that's easier to show than describe.
He got at his top of backswing position then 'planted' or settled' the left foot. There was not really a lateral move nor a big vertical move (it feels more 'down' than it really is, it just looks/feels like I'm planting my torso through my left foot.)
As soon as I saw it, it was very easy to emulate. But I'm not sure if I can capture it accurately in writing.
I can only give an uneducated guess based on what he showed me my issue was on video and what we were trying to do. My old swing had an up and out move with a poor pivot and required me to drop the club back inside. When I would wind up correctly I still had the tendency to drop the club further inside as my first move. I think this transition makes me plant and rotate around that left pivot point rather than drop inside and then rotate.
I only say that because he felt I was in sync and rotating low/left just fine, but was having a hard time just rotating on the plane I was on...without trying to drop the club on plane (which I had to do with my old backswing.)
#2589
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Posted 04 February 2010 - 08:58 AM
Great to hear about the improvement mantan. Your are fortunate to have been able to visit Geoff every 3-4 months and now have a former student who teaches the same. I'm trying to get my schedule cleared for my second visit to Texarkana.
#2590
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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:21 AM
Hi all.
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
#2591
Posted 04 February 2010 - 02:50 PM
stugolf, on 04 February 2010 - 08:21 AM, said:
Hi all.
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
I am curious what the experts have to say as well; just to see if I am gaining in understanding. It seems to me that shanks...and wipes
are caused getting out of synch by disconnecting your arms from your core at the start of the downswing by trying to pull the club down
with your arms while trying to hang on to that lag. By letting your core rotation pull your arms left and low the lag should be preserved
and the club face will square through impact without the need for a precisely timed hand manipulation. Just hold the set and rotate hard left
allowing your arms and hands to ride along in front of your chest. But to be safe I would wait for the experts cause I may not know what
I'm talking about hehehe!
#2592
Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:36 AM
linkslad, on 04 February 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:
stugolf, on 04 February 2010 - 08:21 AM, said:
Hi all.
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
I have been prone to shanking over the last couple of years. It seems that my cause of this was me trying to hold on to the lag and get my hands ahead of the ball at impact. I was shut at the top and then open at impact. Some one suggested I should get more neutral at the top and release the club sooner from the top and close the face through impact. I have worked on releasing the club and rotating my forearms and my shank seems to have gone
I really like the look of the 9-3 drill but I am afraid that if I try to do it it will cause me to shank again because, correct if I'm wrong, I will be holding off the club and not letting it release. I have heard elsewhere that some people start shanking after trying this drill so I would like to know what the experts on slicefixers pattern think about this.
I also have a tendency to goat hump! So this may play a major part!!
I am curious what the experts have to say as well; just to see if I am gaining in understanding. It seems to me that shanks...and wipes
are caused getting out of synch by disconnecting your arms from your core at the start of the downswing by trying to pull the club down
with your arms while trying to hang on to that lag. By letting your core rotation pull your arms left and low the lag should be preserved
and the club face will square through impact without the need for a precisely timed hand manipulation. Just hold the set and rotate hard left
allowing your arms and hands to ride along in front of your chest. But to be safe I would wait for the experts cause I may not know what
I'm talking about hehehe!
^^^^^^^^^^^Good stuff Linkslad. ^^^^^^^^^^^
Stugolf - Brush up on Slice's takeaway. Make sure the club stays out in front and that you START the backswing with your right shoulder rotating back and toward the target. When the shoulders stop turning, the arms stop moving as well. Once you're in sync, try working with the 9-3 shut face drill. No way you can hit the ball toward the target without rotating your core hard all the way thru.
The goal is as Linkslad stated it: "club face will square through impact without the need for a precisely timed hand manipulation"
#2593
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Posted 05 February 2010 - 01:16 PM
Been working on this swing with DFW1500 for nearly a year now. I went through a spell of shanking everything. As Linkslad said I was becoming disconnected in my backswing with my arms running on after I stopped turning. Been working really hard on keeping in sync and things are much better now.
Because the arms were running on, I was stalling the turn in the downswing to allow my arms to catch up, however if I didn't conciously release the club the face never squared through lack of turn and I shanked it.
I am sure if Dan is passing through he will give you a proper explanation rather than my (probably incorrect) understanding
Because the arms were running on, I was stalling the turn in the downswing to allow my arms to catch up, however if I didn't conciously release the club the face never squared through lack of turn and I shanked it.
I am sure if Dan is passing through he will give you a proper explanation rather than my (probably incorrect) understanding
#2594
Posted 05 February 2010 - 01:50 PM
I think the key to this is really letting go of control of the arms/hands in the downswing. Allowing the core to initiate/control the arms/hands portion of the swing.
This is what I struggle with. I've been an arm/hand swinger for the last 5 years. Trying to get myself out of that habit is VERY difficult. However, whenever I focus and just turn HARD, while HOLDING the SET, and allow my arms/hands to be passive, I generate so much club speed, it's scary. I can actually hear the "whoosh!" sound as the club comes thru impact. When I try to use my arms, I hear nothing. Allowing the set to NATURALLY form and un-form is also quite critical.
When the weather improves here in the Midwest, my plan is to hit 60-100 balls a day for a month to see if I can ingrain this new move into my game. When I do it correctly, it's better than butter...
This is what I struggle with. I've been an arm/hand swinger for the last 5 years. Trying to get myself out of that habit is VERY difficult. However, whenever I focus and just turn HARD, while HOLDING the SET, and allow my arms/hands to be passive, I generate so much club speed, it's scary. I can actually hear the "whoosh!" sound as the club comes thru impact. When I try to use my arms, I hear nothing. Allowing the set to NATURALLY form and un-form is also quite critical.
When the weather improves here in the Midwest, my plan is to hit 60-100 balls a day for a month to see if I can ingrain this new move into my game. When I do it correctly, it's better than butter...
#2595
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Posted 05 February 2010 - 02:31 PM
Thanks guy's:drinks:
I did go to a passive arm type swing but I had a problem with my right buttock coming of the tush line and my left buttock not getting on the tush line till well after contact.
I have got to find the reason I early extend.
My swing is like a flat back swing slightly across the line at top then steep downswing with early extension, a recipe for a shank!
I did go to a passive arm type swing but I had a problem with my right buttock coming of the tush line and my left buttock not getting on the tush line till well after contact.
I have got to find the reason I early extend.
My swing is like a flat back swing slightly across the line at top then steep downswing with early extension, a recipe for a shank!
#2596
Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:09 PM
I think that I understand much of slicefixer's swing ideas,EXCEPT for the ROTATION of the left forearm on the backswing.Slicefixer wants the golfer to rotate the left forearm after the first 12-18 inches of the takeaway in order to shallow out the backswing.My question involves 3 parts
a.should the rotation be gradual and continual until the backswing is complete?
b.should the butt of the club point outside the line going through the ball and by how much?
c.Should the left wrist appear flat at the top after rotating the forearm
Slicefixer has written about how effective the Gyroswing is in teaching the correct forearm rotation.Are there any other drills that he uses to teach the correct forearm rotation.
a.should the rotation be gradual and continual until the backswing is complete?
b.should the butt of the club point outside the line going through the ball and by how much?
c.Should the left wrist appear flat at the top after rotating the forearm
Slicefixer has written about how effective the Gyroswing is in teaching the correct forearm rotation.Are there any other drills that he uses to teach the correct forearm rotation.
#2597
Posted 06 February 2010 - 08:06 PM
stugolf, on 05 February 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:
Thanks guy's:drinks:
I did go to a passive arm type swing but I had a problem with my right buttock coming of the tush line and my left buttock not getting on the tush line till well after contact.
I have got to find the reason I early extend.
My swing is like a flat back swing slightly across the line at top then steep downswing with early extension, a recipe for a shank!
I did go to a passive arm type swing but I had a problem with my right buttock coming of the tush line and my left buttock not getting on the tush line till well after contact.
I have got to find the reason I early extend.
My swing is like a flat back swing slightly across the line at top then steep downswing with early extension, a recipe for a shank!
Sounds like you're describing an OTT move if I am understanding your last sentence correctly. I remember slice saying in an earlier post
that the 9/3 drill when done correctly makes this move nearly impossible. Also, holding the set will eliminate an early release. I would
think you're gonna love his 9/3 drill!!!!
#2598
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Posted 09 February 2010 - 11:33 AM
I've been working with the Encyclopedia Texarkana since roughly late summer 2008. One aspect that I struggle with is retaining the lag and achieving the "late hit." Thanks to the instruction on here I finally found out what a "late hit" actually feels like and it was quite a different feeling and even sound for impact (not to mention the trajectory and distance was nothing like any shot I've ever struck). I am now working on recapturing this feeling and can do it about 50% of the time at the range but the old "hit the ball!!" mentality always comes back.
My question is this....what are the best drills for ingraining this aspect of the swing (ie. achieving the "late hit")?
My approach has been to focus on:
1. Keeping the rotation going (no stalling)
2. Passive hands (I practice this by gripping very very lightly)
3. Staying in sync
Thanks for any guidance guys. (Hopefully as soon as snowmageddon ends here in NJ I can post some recent video)
My question is this....what are the best drills for ingraining this aspect of the swing (ie. achieving the "late hit")?
My approach has been to focus on:
1. Keeping the rotation going (no stalling)
2. Passive hands (I practice this by gripping very very lightly)
3. Staying in sync
Thanks for any guidance guys. (Hopefully as soon as snowmageddon ends here in NJ I can post some recent video)
#2599
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Posted 17 February 2010 - 12:36 PM
I had the good fortune of visiting Geoff and his family over the weekend. I can't say enough about their hospitality and Geoff's knowledge on the golf swing. It was a truly great trip. Although the weather was not great, we still got in some good work and I now fully understand where I am going with my swing/game. I had been following the 200 page word document that contains his posts for about a year and a half. After following that document I had some questions on how to implement some of the things he teaches. But I now get it and can't wait to get to work on it and see where it takes me. I highly recommend visiting Geoff if you get the chance. You won't be disappointed.
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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:22 AM
Hey guys. Can someone please confirm HOW it is i correctly set my wrists. I noticed that I was c0cking them incorrectly and this was throwing the club and my arms WAY off time.
The rolling the forearms isn't working so well for me and i am struggling to do it consistently.
The rolling the forearms isn't working so well for me and i am struggling to do it consistently.
