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Tiger Woods: "No Timetable for my Return to Golf..."


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#811 Cool Runnings

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 04:54 PM

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

“He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes.” Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

“It meant an incredible moment then and it still does,” he concluded. “It’s going to be tough to beat that moment in my life.”

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today’s younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on “intimidating” him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger’s scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

Yes. Deadly serious. I was just listening to a podcast 2 days ago with a tour player explaining that when you’ve grown up idolising a player and you play competitively with them you often end up watching your idol as a fan and this can take you out of your game… he went on to explain that there are many tricks to keeping focused like not making eye contact, not intently watching them or their game, not even watching them putt out.


Nothing to do with “fear”, it’s about not getting distracted and keeping focused on their own game.


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#812 Cool Runnings

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:13 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 11 October 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said. "I realized that if I don't look at him, if I pretend I'm playing alone, it's just me, then it would be easier to deal with."

"He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes." Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

"It meant an incredible moment then and it still does," he concluded. "It's going to be tough to beat that moment in my life."

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today's younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on "intimidating" him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger's scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

At the very least a fear of the weight of the situation.  Akin to not lookin down with a fear of heights.  Cannot spin that into admiration of said heights.

I’ve never met such blatant fanboyism to the level that you’ll convince yourself to believe the opposite of what actually transpired. Good lordy! lol


Nowhere in his comments does it describe even the sniff or notion of “fear”… Rahm talks about “crying & choking up” because it’s a moment of INSPIRATION and “honor” for him (that’s the OPPOSITE of FEAR)… think along the lines of when people see their first child being born, they also “cry & choke up” because it’s an INSPIRING moment for them…


Remember, FEAR takes hold of people and CONSTRICTS their body & mind… Rahm was certainly getting carried because it was INSPIRING for him to meet and play with his idol… and as a result we witnessed an INSPIRATIONAL WINNING performance from Rahm not a fearful and constricted losing performance.


Facts & Results don’t lie my friend.


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#813 bladehunter

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:16 PM

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 11 October 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said. "I realized that if I don't look at him, if I pretend I'm playing alone, it's just me, then it would be easier to deal with."

"He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes." Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

"It meant an incredible moment then and it still does," he concluded. "It's going to be tough to beat that moment in my life."

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today's younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on "intimidating" him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger's scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

At the very least a fear of the weight of the situation.  Akin to not lookin down with a fear of heights.  Cannot spin that into admiration of said heights.

I’ve never met such blatant fanboyism to the level that you’ll convince yourself to believe the opposite of what actually transpired. Good lordy! lol


Nowhere in his comments does it describe even the sniff or notion of “fear”… Rahm talks about “crying & choking up” because it’s a moment of INSPIRATION and “honor” for him (that’s the OPPOSITE of FEAR)… think along the lines of when people see their first child being born, they also “cry & choke up” because it’s an INSPIRING moment for them…


Remember, FEAR takes hold of people and CONSTRICTS their body & mind… Rahm was certainly getting carried because it was INSPIRING for him to meet and play with his idol… and as a result we witnessed an INSPIRATIONAL WINNING performance from Rahm not a fearful and constricted losing performance.


Facts & Results don’t lie my friend.




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#814 Cool Runnings

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 06:23 AM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 10 October 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 10 October 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 09 October 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

Cool Runnings, a simple "I was wrong" would suffice.

All of the doubts that you repeatedly made clear (depth of field, level of talent, etc.) are WELL documented.

You simply underestimated Tiger Woods. You underestimated the fact that he is an inherently better golfer than perhaps anyone to ever live.

The ONLY concern that has any real merit is the health concern. I acknowledged that all along. But, if he stays healthy, he will rise to #1 again. He's still young enough and swinging well enough and fast enough to do that.

The depth of the field and this "greater talent" level obviously doesn't matter when he plays well. Tiger will be better next year, with more practice time under his belt, and he will continue to win.

I think a little re-cap is needed… My main concerns (that I repeatedly stated and stand by even now if he’s to win again) are Tiger mentally, Tiger physically, The level / depth of competition, Tiger no longer having the edge over his competition (mentally, physically, preparation, distance), Tiger’s age.

All of these key points I’ve gone into many times and in some detail when we’ve observed them holding him back from pushing on and winning. They all still apply to Tiger going forward if he’s to win again, especially the events he/everyone wants to win most… the Majors.

Tiger’s win at this years finally event (Tour Champs) was awesome, great for him, great for us fans and the game in general. This was a needed and timely win that validated what has been a tough tough journey for him mentally & physically. As I’ve explained above I was too busy celebrating his win in Paris with fellow friends some who are fellow Tiger fans, REAL honest & open Tiger fans that like me can call things objectively straight down the middle.

Your concerns have some potential validity: Tiger is older, there are a lot of good players out there today, etc. (the mental and pressure things I don't agree with)---But, what we've observed, is that he WON vs. 29 of the best players in the world.

So you would think at some point you might say, hmmm...maybe Tiger has more left in the tank than I thought. Maybe he can deal with the pressure. Maybe the other guys aren't unbeatable. No, instead, you just dig in deeper with the same broad generalizations.

The key component that you seem to ignore is that Tiger basically sat out 2016 and 2017. And he's also made major changes to his swing.

These are immediate and specific challenges to overcome. You don't just roll out of bed (literally) after a spinal fusion and have your best Tournament golf ready to go. Not winning until the end of the season can be explained by these (finding his swing and short game after a LONG layoff, new swing feels, swinging post Spinal fusion) challenges, and not the ones you repeat.

So, if he's able to continue to be healthy and progress as he has all season, his trend is clearly pointed upward. He won't have to overcome rust next season. His new swing will be more solidified. He will have practice hours under his belt that he didn't this season. He will go in great form to The Master's, not in the uncertain form he had this year.

I’ve always stated a fit & healthy Tiger would likely compete and ‘could’ potentially win IF i.e. on the right course, against the right field, and particularly IF he could mentally overcome the many doubts and uncertainties he was experiencing playing today, especially as today’s fields are deeper more talented than ever. *(and these ‘IFs’ were many & varied internally & externally that I’ve consistently outlined with justified caution and reference).
What we saw from Tiger over almost the entire season were many of these mental issues continually play out despite some great golf being played (even gatorMD admitted to TW still having ”some mental issues” in the last event)… thankfully at the very last event things aligned for him and he deservedly got that much needed win. Was this win the exception or the rule going forward?… we’ll have to eagerly wait for the 2019 season to find out for sure. Like I said, if he can get an early win next year (but even this early win is still dependent on the many ‘IFs’ falling into place that I’ve outlined) then it could be a multiple win year.

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.


Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.


I could go on…


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#815 cgbm

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:41 PM

Hmmmm

8 of the 19 tournaments he played in this year resulted in a top 10 finish. Including a runner up in a major and a win against the top 30 players on tour.

Please continue to explain his mental issues....


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#816 bladehunter

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:42 PM

Let’s boil this all down.  Is there a point ?  


I think , speaking for the fan who wants to see Tiger succeed , that the point we make is there are wayyy more positives than negatives given the situation and circumstances of this comeback.  

If I may. It’s your attention , or obscesson with the negative of tigers game or happenings that makes believing your Fan card is valid , tough.  
Let’s say we chose to agree and go with that .    The question is.  How can you be a fan and never mentio a positive word.  Some back handed compliments yes. But a true positive post during play , or after citing something , anything good?  

This is a genuine question.  I’m sarcastic , I know. But on the real.  Are you sincere with your posts and truly mean them to be positive , or non bias ?  If so you may want to check on the negativity level .  I say that as a very negative Nancy myself.  And at times I have to realize I’m just piling on for sake of argument.  

I can admit that my posts are a lot of times over the top In favor of tiger.  It’s a conscious decision .  I’m not blind. I saw the Driver yips etc. but I also see the work and recovery.  And had faith that the recovery would happen.  Can you admit that yours are ( at times ) over the top in the opposite direction ?    Again. Real question.

It’s just a very curious thing. To have a self proclaimed Fan of anything argue to the death and continue to cite the stupidity of the obvious fans of the same thing .  Hard to get your head around.

Edited by bladehunter, 11 October 2018 - 05:46 PM.

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#817 Pigems

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:02 PM

CR, you gotta make this your avatar man, every time I see your screen name next to one of your posts I just feel like this image should be under it. I loved that movie as a kid! Maybe you could change the words to Hey Tiger, You dead Mon? :)

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#818 dciccoritti

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:13 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 09 March 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

2018!




Called it! Nice :-)
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#819 dciccoritti

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:16 PM

View Postanth, on 09 March 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 09 March 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

2018!




Agreed.  In 2018 you'll still be posting this video to make up for the fact that Tiger ain't got it no more

Oops :-)
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#820 Shilgy

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:22 PM

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

“He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes.” Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

“It meant an incredible moment then and it still does,” he concluded. “It’s going to be tough to beat that moment in my life.”

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today’s younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on “intimidating” him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger’s scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

Yes. Deadly serious. I was just listening to a podcast 2 days ago with a tour player explaining that when you’ve grown up idolising a player and you play competitively with them you often end up watching your idol as a fan and this can take you out of your game… he went on to explain that there are many tricks to keeping focused like not making eye contact, not intently watching them or their game, not even watching them putt out.


Nothing to do with “fear”, it’s about not getting distracted and keeping focused on their own game.

So you think Els and company were actually "afraid" of Tiger?  Versus Rahm is just a fan? Lol. Rahm handled it well but the actual thought process between he and Els 18 years ago is very similar. It's easy to get caught up in the hoopla , even as a fellow competitor, playing with Woods. The crowds are bigger and noisier primarily. The other factor is they knew in their hearts Tiger was not going backwards and giving them free catch up strokes.
  So call it what you will, or spin it how you like, but idolization and fear are the same definition in the sports works if you cannot look at him while playing.

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#821 straightshot7

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 07:35 PM

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.

Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.

I could go on…

He's been doing that his entire career, along with every other player on Tour. Every golfer wishes they could carry their range swing to the course. That's completely normal. But, if that's the criteria for a "mental issue" I guess he overcame it. Check his driving stats in the last 2 tournaments of the year.

That's the best you can do? You can't even name a specific shot? I have to go search through the "golfing media"? I watched all of the tournaments. I don't think you can conclusively attribute his failure to close tournaments to having "mental issues". At least not any that are beyond what every single player deals with.

This just shows that you don't have any concrete or strong support for your generalizations.

Not being able to take the range to the course? Really? That's as normal as it gets for a pro golfer.

You spoke about Tiger as if he had some abnormal, damning "mental issues". What you're describing here as "mental issues" is totally normal for any human being playing golf.

If you're going to be consistent you need to say Justin Rose, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, etc. all have "mental issues" because they ALL fail to close tournaments and hit bad shots at times. And yet I don't see you saying that about them...hmm...

Edited by straightshot7, 11 October 2018 - 07:38 PM.


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#822 bscinstnct

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 07:50 PM

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 11 October 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said. "I realized that if I don't look at him, if I pretend I'm playing alone, it's just me, then it would be easier to deal with."

"He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes." Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

"It meant an incredible moment then and it still does," he concluded. "It's going to be tough to beat that moment in my life."

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today's younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on "intimidating" him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger's scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

At the very least a fear of the weight of the situation.  Akin to not lookin down with a fear of heights.  Cannot spin that into admiration of said heights.

I’ve never met such blatant fanboyism to the level that you’ll convince yourself to believe the opposite of what actually transpired. Good lordy! lol


Nowhere in his comments does it describe even the sniff or notion of “fear”… Rahm talks about “crying & choking up” because it’s a moment of INSPIRATION and “honor” for him (that’s the OPPOSITE of FEAR)… think along the lines of when people see their first child being born, they also “cry & choke up” because it’s an INSPIRING moment for them…


Remember, FEAR takes hold of people and CONSTRICTS their body & mind… Rahm was certainly getting carried because it was INSPIRING for him to meet and play with his idol… and as a result we witnessed an INSPIRATIONAL WINNING performance from Rahm not a fearful and constricted losing performance.


Facts & Results don’t lie my friend.


This is great stuff, cr.

But Im not sure many first time parents

Dont look at

"Their first child being born"

As Rahm said he didnt look at TW for 17 holes.

Nonetheless, we applaud you and look forward to you crafting your next great concoctions and schemes

Just like

Wile E Coyote.


Edited by bscinstnct, 11 October 2018 - 08:05 PM.


12

#823 dciccoritti

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 08:58 PM

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

“He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes.” Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

“It meant an incredible moment then and it still does,” he concluded. “It’s going to be tough to beat that moment in my life.”

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today’s younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on “intimidating” him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger’s scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

Yes. Deadly serious. I was just listening to a podcast 2 days ago with a tour player explaining that when you’ve grown up idolising a player and you play competitively with them you often end up watching your idol as a fan and this can take you out of your game… he went on to explain that there are many tricks to keeping focused like not making eye contact, not intently watching them or their game, not even watching them putt out.

Nothing to do with “fear”, it’s about not getting distracted and keeping focused on their own game.

Too funny :-)
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#824 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 09:23 PM

Hummmm.  This really has become a pretty weird thread.

I think I’ll pop in now and then.
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#825 Hankshank

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:25 AM

Mental issues... Even in his hey days, according to Harmon, Tiger was extremely nervous before large tournaments. And it looks to me like he is now too. Sure, he might hit better on the range than on the course but who doesnt? Maybe guys like JT and Furyk that was born with swings. But Tiger seems to be able to handle his nervousness, and nervousness can be a good thing if you want to pull yourself together, to really focus. Some guys, like Koepka, doesnt seem to need that, he seem to need the tension of a Major to really get involved.

Mental issues... we are different, have different personal traits and have to handle them, and you can perform at top level even though you not have the personality of someone that reacts the same no matter what happens.

A little sidetrack - Regarding performance on driving range vs golf course Seve must have been the worst. I saw him several times on the driving range during tournaments, hitting drive after drive dead straight just to come up to the first tee and then spraying everything into the woods. I sometimes got the feeling he did it just to be able to show off his remarkable recovery shots from impossible lies.

Edited by Hankshank, 12 October 2018 - 01:27 AM.


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#826 Cool Runnings

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:43 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 11 October 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Let's boil this all down.  Is there a point ?  


I think , speaking for the fan who wants to see Tiger succeed , that the point we make is there are wayyy more positives than negatives given the situation and circumstances of this comeback.  

If I may. It's your attention , or obscesson with the negative of tigers game or happenings that makes believing your Fan card is valid , tough.  
Let's say we chose to agree and go with that . The question is.  How can you be a fan and never mentio a positive word.  Some back handed compliments yes. But a true positive post during play , or after citing something , anything good?  

This is a genuine question.  I'm sarcastic , I know. But on the real.  Are you sincere with your posts and truly mean them to be positive , or non bias ?  If so you may want to check on the negativity level .  I say that as a very negative Nancy myself.  And at times I have to realize I'm just piling on for sake of argument.  

I can admit that my posts are a lot of times over the top In favor of tiger.  It's a conscious decision .  I'm not blind. I saw the Driver yips etc. but I also see the work and recovery.  And had faith that the recovery would happen.  Can you admit that yours are ( at times ) over the top in the opposite direction ? Again. Real question.

It's just a very curious thing. To have a self proclaimed Fan of anything argue to the death and continue to cite the stupidity of the obvious fans of the same thing .  Hard to get your head around.

Here’s the “point”…. like you I also support Tiger, but do so from a far more balanced, rational, objective (non-fanboy) perspective. I’m a straight shooter and call things as they are (good & bad), not as I wish or hope they are - in contrast many of you (to quote your own words) are “over the top” on Tiger… put simply, I can’t support someone with this level of “over the top” fandom, you and many are this way (consciously or unconsciously) and so we clash when I give you the other side of the coin.

The problem with being so one-sided / “over the top” is that it creates a bias and blinds you from seeing when someone IS or HAS been ‘positively’ supportive of which I have many many times. But know this, you can also be ‘supportive’ even when being critical. Sure it may appear to those one-sided / “over the toppers” I’m “not a fan” when I critique him but in reality I’m just being objective and that’s due to two core reasons, 1. I have higher standards for Tiger than most (after all he’s one of the best ever), 2. I’ve always called what I see, fluffy or not. Life demonstrates viewing someone or something in terms of ‘fairies & unicorns’ actually does more harm and disservice than good.

Here’s something to think about in relation to nature’s laws of energy, yin/yang… if more of you “over the toppers” where more objective and down the middle towards Tiger there wouldn’t be a vacuum for those voices to bring the dynamic back to a more equilibrated and natural state.

Regardless, it’s all fun & games in the game we all love ;)

Edited by Cool Runnings, 12 October 2018 - 05:47 AM.


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#827 Cool Runnings

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:05 AM

View PostShilgy, on 11 October 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postdciccoritti, on 11 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 11 October 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

For those who think playing TW is no longer intimidating or a big deal for the young uns ; ) Cool of Rahm to share this...

https://www.golf.com...onal-ryder-cup/


"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said. "I realized that if I don't look at him, if I pretend I'm playing alone, it's just me, then it would be easier to deal with."

"He was coming towards me with a smile still. I mean, I started crying. I got emotional, tears started coming out of my eyes." Rahm got choked up as Woods approached him, and again as he spoke about the round in an interview afterwards. The moment resonated with him so much that Rahm found Woods later at the closing ceremonies, just to tell him what an honor the match had been.

"It meant an incredible moment then and it still does," he concluded. "It's going to be tough to beat that moment in my life."

There is a huge difference between idolising/admiring a player and fearing a player… many of today's younger players like Rahm clearly idolises/admires TW, but as we saw that had zero impact on "intimidating" him, his play and result.. In fact it likely inspired him with pressure at its greatest to take Tiger's scalp as some kind of trophy - which lets be honest, he did in emphatic style.

Nice to hear the admiration he still has for Tiger, although I wish these talented young guns would fear him like many use to do, this way Tiger might have an edge over them.

Are you for real? You think 'not looking at him and pretending to play alone' is idolizing and not fearing?

Yes. Deadly serious. I was just listening to a podcast 2 days ago with a tour player explaining that when you've grown up idolising a player and you play competitively with them you often end up watching your idol as a fan and this can take you out of your game… he went on to explain that there are many tricks to keeping focused like not making eye contact, not intently watching them or their game, not even watching them putt out.

Nothing to do with "fear", it's about not getting distracted and keeping focused on their own game.
So you think Els and company were actually "afraid" of Tiger?  Versus Rahm is just a fan? Lol. Rahm handled it well but the actual thought process between he and Els 18 years ago is very similar. It's easy to get caught up in the hoopla , even as a fellow competitor, playing with Woods. The crowds are bigger and noisier primarily. The other factor is they knew in their hearts Tiger was not going backwards and giving them free catch up strokes.
  So call it what you will, or spin it how you like, but idolization and fear are the same definition in the sports works if you cannot look at him while playing.

From Merriam:idolization
: to worship as a god

Shilgy
“So you think Els and company were actually "afraid" of Tiger?  Versus Rahm is just a fan? Lol.”

Just think a little deeper about your opening line above… Rahm was a child who likely had idolising pictures of Tiger on his wall when growing up. Els in comparison was slightly older than Tiger and viewed Tiger as a direct competitor and threat - so completely different. I can safely say Els didn’t have any fan/idolising posters of Tiger on his wall. Els perception of Tiger were also formed through multiple direct experiences of being beaten by him which would naturally leave some form of competitive scar tissue. Also, there are many many older pros from the Els/Tiger era who’ve openly stated they were often ‘fearful’ of a prowling Tiger. Today we hear the exact OPPOSITE from these fearless young guns, they have ZERO years of competitive scar tissue compared to Els & Co from the previous era and todays young guns openly want to play with and beat Tiger at his very best, and many of them have this season and recent years.

The dynamics between how both Rahm & Els grew up viewing Tiger then/today are worlds apart for the reasons and dynamics outlined. I do agree both Rahm & Els likely hold a common ‘respect’ for Tiger the golfer and his achievements, which is normal and natural.

Cmon, you should know this stuff.

Edited by Cool Runnings, 12 October 2018 - 06:18 AM.


17

#828 Cool Runnings

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:45 AM

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.

Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.

I could go on…

He's been doing that his entire career, along with every other player on Tour. Every golfer wishes they could carry their range swing to the course. That's completely normal. But, if that's the criteria for a "mental issue" I guess he overcame it. Check his driving stats in the last 2 tournaments of the year.

That's the best you can do? You can't even name a specific shot? I have to go search through the "golfing media"? I watched all of the tournaments. I don't think you can conclusively attribute his failure to close tournaments to having "mental issues". At least not any that are beyond what every single player deals with.

This just shows that you don't have any concrete or strong support for your generalizations.

Not being able to take the range to the course? Really? That's as normal as it gets for a pro golfer.

You spoke about Tiger as if he had some abnormal, damning "mental issues". What you're describing here as "mental issues" is totally normal for any human being playing golf.

If you're going to be consistent you need to say Justin Rose, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, etc. all have "mental issues" because they ALL fail to close tournaments and hit bad shots at times. And yet I don't see you saying that about them...hmm...

There are plenty of specific shots and instances that are well documented in the media of Tiger mentally looking fragile throughout the season, so much so it’s hardly worth my time doing so. What IS clear is you don’t want to acknowledge what myself and many of the golfing media have already and repeatedly highlighted. Just because you don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it not true my friend.

And many players actually perform better on the course than the range. With Tiger it was more evident of these mental issues because of the level of disparity and frequency of his performance on the range to 5 mins later in tournament and in key pressure moments.

And I never said they were “damning” mental issues, but I did repeatedly say “if” he’s to win again then these mental issues need to “fixed” as they’re “holding him back” in key pressure moments. I’ve clearly and with objective validity posted these distinctions time and again because it was a big issue. Thankfully they weren’t in the very last event. Does that mean he’s mentally ‘back’ or is it more the exception than the rule… well that we’ll just have to wait and see over the course of next season.

Edited by Cool Runnings, 12 October 2018 - 08:49 AM.


18

#829 gatorMD

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:19 AM

View PostCool Runnings, on 12 October 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.

Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.

I could go on…

He's been doing that his entire career, along with every other player on Tour. Every golfer wishes they could carry their range swing to the course. That's completely normal. But, if that's the criteria for a "mental issue" I guess he overcame it. Check his driving stats in the last 2 tournaments of the year.

That's the best you can do? You can't even name a specific shot? I have to go search through the "golfing media"? I watched all of the tournaments. I don't think you can conclusively attribute his failure to close tournaments to having "mental issues". At least not any that are beyond what every single player deals with.

This just shows that you don't have any concrete or strong support for your generalizations.

Not being able to take the range to the course? Really? That's as normal as it gets for a pro golfer.

You spoke about Tiger as if he had some abnormal, damning "mental issues". What you're describing here as "mental issues" is totally normal for any human being playing golf.

If you're going to be consistent you need to say Justin Rose, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, etc. all have "mental issues" because they ALL fail to close tournaments and hit bad shots at times. And yet I don't see you saying that about them...hmm...

There are plenty of specific shots and instances that are well documented in the media of Tiger mentally looking fragile throughout the season, so much so it’s hardly worth my time doing so. What IS clear is you don’t want to acknowledge what myself and many of the golfing media have already and repeatedly highlighted. Just because you don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it not true my friend.

And many players actually perform better on the course than the range. With Tiger it was more evident of these mental issues because of the level of disparity and frequency of his performance on the range to 5 mins later in tournament and in key pressure moments.

And I never said they were “damning” mental issues, but I did repeatedly say “if” he’s to win again then these mental issues need to “fixed” as they’re “holding him back” in key pressure moments. I’ve clearly and with objective validity posted these distinctions time and again because it was a big issue. Thankfully they’re weren’t in the very last event. Does that mean he’s mentally ‘back’ or is it more the exception than the rule… well that we’ll just have to wait and see over the course of next season.

I'm def not an over the top tiger fan, right?

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19

#830 bscinstnct

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:55 AM

View PostgatorMD, on 12 October 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 12 October 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.

Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.

I could go on…

He's been doing that his entire career, along with every other player on Tour. Every golfer wishes they could carry their range swing to the course. That's completely normal. But, if that's the criteria for a "mental issue" I guess he overcame it. Check his driving stats in the last 2 tournaments of the year.

That's the best you can do? You can't even name a specific shot? I have to go search through the "golfing media"? I watched all of the tournaments. I don't think you can conclusively attribute his failure to close tournaments to having "mental issues". At least not any that are beyond what every single player deals with.

This just shows that you don't have any concrete or strong support for your generalizations.

Not being able to take the range to the course? Really? That's as normal as it gets for a pro golfer.

You spoke about Tiger as if he had some abnormal, damning "mental issues". What you're describing here as "mental issues" is totally normal for any human being playing golf.

If you're going to be consistent you need to say Justin Rose, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, etc. all have "mental issues" because they ALL fail to close tournaments and hit bad shots at times. And yet I don't see you saying that about them...hmm...

There are plenty of specific shots and instances that are well documented in the media of Tiger mentally looking fragile throughout the season, so much so it’s hardly worth my time doing so. What IS clear is you don’t want to acknowledge what myself and many of the golfing media have already and repeatedly highlighted. Just because you don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it not true my friend.

And many players actually perform better on the course than the range. With Tiger it was more evident of these mental issues because of the level of disparity and frequency of his performance on the range to 5 mins later in tournament and in key pressure moments.

And I never said they were “damning” mental issues, but I did repeatedly say “if” he’s to win again then these mental issues need to “fixed” as they’re “holding him back” in key pressure moments. I’ve clearly and with objective validity posted these distinctions time and again because it was a big issue. Thankfully they’re weren’t in the very last event. Does that mean he’s mentally ‘back’ or is it more the exception than the rule… well that we’ll just have to wait and see over the course of next season.

I'm def not an over the top tiger fan, right?

new shoes:

If **we** are fanbois, what about these folks?

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#831 Cool Runnings

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:59 AM

View PostgatorMD, on 12 October 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 12 October 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostCool Runnings, on 11 October 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Can you please present some empirical evidence that Tiger has been experiencing "mental issues", beyond what any (pro) golfer normally faces? And evidence that it's these supposed issues that have specifically prevented him from winning (more) and how?

Just you or someone else saying it, doesn't make it true.

Also, even in Tiger's prime I'm sure he experienced "doubts and uncertainties". That's part of being a human being, and especially when you play a very difficult game like golf at the highest level.

Where do we start… firstly Tiger for most of the season was hitting drivers on a rope and barely missing a shot on the driving range, then 5 mins later (as pressure increases with tournament play) he struggles to hit fairway after fairway. That’s a “mental issue” personified and I shouldn’t have to document it any further as it’s already well documented.

Then we come to his season long pattern/issue of inextricably choosing & hitting woeful shot at key crunch times when in or near contention - this reality has been witnessed consistently virtually all season (thankfully it was minimal in this years final event where everything came together)… and this has also been well documented by many of the golfing media if you care to look.

I could go on…

He's been doing that his entire career, along with every other player on Tour. Every golfer wishes they could carry their range swing to the course. That's completely normal. But, if that's the criteria for a "mental issue" I guess he overcame it. Check his driving stats in the last 2 tournaments of the year.

That's the best you can do? You can't even name a specific shot? I have to go search through the "golfing media"? I watched all of the tournaments. I don't think you can conclusively attribute his failure to close tournaments to having "mental issues". At least not any that are beyond what every single player deals with.

This just shows that you don't have any concrete or strong support for your generalizations.

Not being able to take the range to the course? Really? That's as normal as it gets for a pro golfer.

You spoke about Tiger as if he had some abnormal, damning "mental issues". What you're describing here as "mental issues" is totally normal for any human being playing golf.

If you're going to be consistent you need to say Justin Rose, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, etc. all have "mental issues" because they ALL fail to close tournaments and hit bad shots at times. And yet I don't see you saying that about them...hmm...

There are plenty of specific shots and instances that are well documented in the media of Tiger mentally looking fragile throughout the season, so much so it’s hardly worth my time doing so. What IS clear is you don’t want to acknowledge what myself and many of the golfing media have already and repeatedly highlighted. Just because you don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it not true my friend.

And many players actually perform better on the course than the range. With Tiger it was more evident of these mental issues because of the level of disparity and frequency of his performance on the range to 5 mins later in tournament and in key pressure moments.

And I never said they were “damning” mental issues, but I did repeatedly say “if” he’s to win again then these mental issues need to “fixed” as they’re “holding him back” in key pressure moments. I’ve clearly and with objective validity posted these distinctions time and again because it was a big issue. Thankfully they’re weren’t in the very last event. Does that mean he’s mentally ‘back’ or is it more the exception than the rule… well that we’ll just have to wait and see over the course of next season.

I'm def not an over the top tiger fan, right?

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Oh dear, you liking my post on Tiger’s mental issues might not be well received by straightshot7 & Co… I don’t want to cause in-family fighting and accusations of traitorship now ;)


and you’re so “over the top” you’ve actually come full circle ;)


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#832 bladehunter

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:00 AM

Lol.  I’m happy to announce that relatively speaking I’m a very positive minded person.  Good grief.  How full does the cup need to be ??
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#833 Cool Runnings

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:08 AM


bscinstnct

“If **we** are fanbois, what about these folks?”


How do we know it’s NOT you in these costumes and you’re just posting them for extra vanity points?


;)


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#834 cgbm

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:14 AM

The speaking in vague opinions and quoting them as truth in here is strong.

Lets talk about some facts.

How does one have mental issues and win against the top 30 on tour and runner up in a major. And 6 other top 10s?

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#835 Shilgy

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:22 AM

View PostCool Runnings, on 12 October 2018 - 06:05 AM, said:


Shilgy
“So you think Els and company were actually "afraid" of Tiger?  Versus Rahm is just a fan? Lol.”

Just think a little deeper about your opening line above… Rahm was a child who likely had idolising pictures of Tiger on his wall when growing up. Els in comparison was slightly older than Tiger and viewed Tiger as a direct competitor and threat - so completely different. I can safely say Els didn’t have any fan/idolising posters of Tiger on his wall. Els perception of Tiger were also formed through multiple direct experiences of being beaten by him which would naturally leave some form of competitive scar tissue. Also, there are many many older pros from the Els/Tiger era who’ve openly stated they were often ‘fearful’ of a prowling Tiger. Today we hear the exact OPPOSITE from these fearless young guns, they have ZERO years of competitive scar tissue compared to Els & Co from the previous era and todays young guns openly want to play with and beat Tiger at his very best, and many of them have this season and recent years.

The dynamics between how both Rahm & Els grew up viewing Tiger then/today are worlds apart for the reasons and dynamics outlined. I do agree both Rahm & Els likely hold a common ‘respect’ for Tiger the golfer and his achievements, which is normal and natural.

Cmon, you should know this stuff.
this is like looking at a penny and saying you see heads and I see tails. Ernie and Company as you said were beat down(your phrase competitive scar tissue) by him for years and became intimidated. Intimidated, fearful, idolized, they all result in the same thing on the golf course. Belief that if they acknowledge the issue tiger will beat them.

Edited by Shilgy, 12 October 2018 - 09:34 AM.

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#836 bladehunter

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:29 AM

View Postcgbm, on 12 October 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

The speaking in vague opinions and quoting them as truth in here is strong.

Lets talk about some facts.

How does one have mental issues and win against the top 30 on tour and runner up in a major. And 6 other top 10s?

I’m sure “ luck “ will be Cited ... maybe everyone else was just tired ?  Or could it be that Cool is flat wrong and this thread bugs him now andhes working to get it locked ?  Hmmm
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#837 bladehunter

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:33 AM

And citing tigers range game vs his rounds isn’t really accurate to describe some Mental discrepency.  Unless you will stand by that and claim he’s alway had a mental block.    The term “ ranger Rick “ was literally made mainstream by his smooth range swing vs the violent move he has at the bottom on course.  Been that way since 2002 or longer.

Edited by bladehunter, 12 October 2018 - 09:33 AM.

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#838 dlygrisse

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:39 AM

Tiger's only "mental issues" were the fact that he needed to learn to trust his body again, he had to learn to hit a golf ball under pressure again, he had to trust what ever swing changes he made, and how his body responded to them.  He had to learn to trust his short game and putting again.  After what he went through this is no small feat, even for a 14 time major winner.  He needed to learn how to win again.  And he did.  

Any issues he has in his personal life, I am sure had some effect, but if Tiger is anything, he is mentally tough on a golf course.  Off the course....well, who is to say, all we know is what we see on TV and read on the internet.  He obviously had his struggles, those are well documented.  But he seems to have over come those.
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#839 bscinstnct

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:41 AM

View Postcgbm, on 12 October 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

The speaking in vague opinions and quoting them as truth in here is strong.

Lets talk about some facts.

How does one have mental issues and win against the top 30 on tour and runner up in a major. And 6 other top 10s?

Cool is too caught up in every poor shot TW hits that he doesn't realize that all the other players do the same thing all the time.


For perspective,


https://twitter.com/...ur-championship

"Converting outright 54-hole leads on the PGA Tour: Tiger Woods' career: 95% (42-for-44) Entire Tour since 2013: 42%"



So, with a 42% closing percentage, I hope we can put this argument that the "young guns", per the closing percentage cited above aligning with the timing of their godly prevalence on tour,  are steely eyed closers.

They choke leads all the time.

Edited by bscinstnct, 12 October 2018 - 09:44 AM.


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#840 gatorMD

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:22 AM

View PostCool Runnings, on 12 October 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:


bscinstnct
“If **we** are fanbois, what about these folks?”

How do we know it’s NOT you in these costumes and you’re just posting them for extra vanity points?

;)

i don't consider u a real tiger fan if u don't have a tiger suit and driver head cover.

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