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NEW TOUR ISSUE KURO KAGE SILVER DUAL CORE PROTO 60 TS STIFF Shaft


55 replies to this topic

#31 dmael

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

Here is an update and an FYI for those of you who have asked questions or are interested in this shaft and how it plays relative to other shafts in TS and/or X flex:

I tested the Prototype TS flex "Tour Issue" (or "Tour Only") Kuro Kage TiNi Dual Core shaft that is installed in my GBB Epic driver (44.75" playing length; D3 swingweight) vs. a Mitsubishi D+ ("Whiteboard") 80-X (same playing length, one swingweight point higher), as well as a Paderson Kinetixx 860TP shaft in TS flex (essentially their S-flex shaft with 1/2" of tip-trim).  All shafts are installed in genuine Callaway adapters and were installed in my 9* non Sub-Zero Epic clubhead for frequency testing and shaft profiling.  The Kuro Kage TiNi Dual Core 60 TS "Prototype" and the Diamana D+ 80-X shaft profiled almost identically (the D+ has a slightly stiffer lower mid-section and tip section, but only marginally so), and both of these shafts frequency at a FCM 6.5 to 6.6 butt frequency (within 0.7 CPM of each other).  The Paderson shaft has a slightly softer butt frequency at about FCM 6.2, but it is actually slightly stiffer in the tip and lower mid section.

In my opinion, the Kuro Kage TiNi Dual Core 60-TS "Prototype" that is the topic of discussion in this thread plays to about an X-flex by most acceptable shaft measurement standards, and the data that I collected on it shows it to be remarkably similar in flex and profile to Mitubishi's current Diamana D+ 80-X shaft.

I hope this information is useful to those of you who have been posting questions regarding flex and stiffness regarding this Kuro Kage shaft model.


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#32 dmael

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:38 PM

View PostJI3, on 31 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

How's the feeling on this shaft?
And is this shaft tip heavy?  How would it pair with a heavy driver head like 206.5g?

PS - The reason for the increase in swingweight, (from D1.5 - D2 to D3) in my Epic driver with the Kuro Kage TiNi DC shaft in it is because I replaced the single 12g sliding weight that came in it with two 8g slider weights yesterday.  I also spread-out the two 8g weights to increase MOI in the driver.

Edited by dmael, 01 September 2017 - 10:39 AM.


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#33 Neverfaze

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 01:02 PM

Great to know! Thanks for the accurate and specific feedback!

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#34 littledreamer

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:06 PM

Yes, thanks for the detailed feedback. Will try the TS straight in at first, and report back how I feel.  Cheers!

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#35 dmael

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 08:21 PM

View Postbk12, on 21 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

I will say that if you look at the labels on the TM Dual Core 60 shafts, they have a totally different butt label.  I suspect that these TS shafts may be produced in Japan, while the ones with the other labels sold in OEM clubs are from elsewhere in Asia.  I would say it appears the same facility as the TX versions?

I have butt frequency tested one of these TS protos, and it flexes about 2/3 of the way (from a Stiff) toward an X-flex XT or Silver TiNi X shaft.

EXACTLY what I have found regarding the butt frequency on the TS Silver TiNi Dual Core!


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#36 JI3

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:10 PM

How's the feeling on this shaft?
And is this shaft tip heavy?  How would it pair with a heavy driver head like 206.5g?
Cobra KING LTD Black 9.5° - Mitsubishi Diamana O.G. Whiteboard 63 45" / Kurokage Silver Dual-Core TiNi 60 TX 44.5" (tipped 1")
Cobra KING LTD Black 14.5° - Mitsubishi Diamana Kai'li 70 43" (tipped 0.75")
Cobra KING F6 Baffler 17.5° - Project X HZRDUS Black 75 42" (tipped 1")
Cobra KING F7 Hybrid 17.5° - Graphite Design Tour AD DI Hybrid 85 41"
Callaway Apex UT 18° - Aerotech SteelFiber i95 40"
Srixon Z745 4~PW - Nippon N.S.Pro Modus³ TOUR120
Titleist Vokey SM6 F Grind 50°/12°, SM6 F Grind 54°/14°, SM6 K Grind 60°/12° - Dynamic Gold
EVNROLL ER7 - 34"
Titleist Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 - 34"
Taylormade TP5X
Titleist Lightweight Stand Bag
Footjoy Pure Touch Limited Glove

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#37 dalton044

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:37 AM

Really tempted by this shaft. The overall thought on it that I'm getting from this thread is that it's

Mid launch
Mid/low spin
Flex between S and X

Can someone confirm?
-GBB Epic Tensei Pro Orange 60 TX
-915F 13.5 AD DI 7x
-915 HD 17.5 AD DI 85x
-816 H2 23 AD DI 85x
-718 AP2 4-PW S400 AMT
-SM7 52F 58M TI S400
-Piretti Tour 801 Long Slant Neck
WITB Link

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#38 dmael

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:38 AM

View PostJI3, on 31 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

How's the feeling on this shaft?
And is this shaft tip heavy?  How would it pair with a heavy driver head like 206.5g?

I love the feel of this shaft, but then I love the feel of ALL generations of the Kuro Kage Silver shafts, especially the TiNi and TiNi Dual Core models.  It feels fairly "firm", but not overly stiff, and certainly not "boardy".

The shaft is not especially tip-heavy.  In fact, I lost 2 to 2.5 swingweight points when I switched from the Paderson Kinetixx Kevlar 860TP shaft (74g) to this shaft at the same playing length, and I had to add 4g of weight to teh clubhead to get the swingweight back to what I consider a "normal" weight at D3.

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#39 dmael

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:41 AM

View Postdalton044, on 01 September 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

Really tempted by this shaft. The overall thought on it that I'm getting from this thread is that it's

Mid launch
Mid/low spin
Flex between S and X

Can someone confirm?

I would say mid-low launch and mid-low to low spin.  It is definitely between S and X, but closer to X than S flex.

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#40 dalton044

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:06 AM

View Postdmael, on 01 September 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

View Postdalton044, on 01 September 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

Really tempted by this shaft. The overall thought on it that I'm getting from this thread is that it's

Mid launch
Mid/low spin
Flex between S and X

Can someone confirm?

I would say mid-low launch and mid-low to low spin.  It is definitely between S and X, but closer to X than S flex.
Thanks! That's what I was looking might have too give it a run at such a low price.

-GBB Epic Tensei Pro Orange 60 TX
-915F 13.5 AD DI 7x
-915 HD 17.5 AD DI 85x
-816 H2 23 AD DI 85x
-718 AP2 4-PW S400 AMT
-SM7 52F 58M TI S400
-Piretti Tour 801 Long Slant Neck
WITB Link

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#41 JI3

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

Thank you, dmael!
Your answers are peaking my interest to try this shaft!
Cobra KING LTD Black 9.5° - Mitsubishi Diamana O.G. Whiteboard 63 45" / Kurokage Silver Dual-Core TiNi 60 TX 44.5" (tipped 1")
Cobra KING LTD Black 14.5° - Mitsubishi Diamana Kai'li 70 43" (tipped 0.75")
Cobra KING F6 Baffler 17.5° - Project X HZRDUS Black 75 42" (tipped 1")
Cobra KING F7 Hybrid 17.5° - Graphite Design Tour AD DI Hybrid 85 41"
Callaway Apex UT 18° - Aerotech SteelFiber i95 40"
Srixon Z745 4~PW - Nippon N.S.Pro Modus³ TOUR120
Titleist Vokey SM6 F Grind 50°/12°, SM6 F Grind 54°/14°, SM6 K Grind 60°/12° - Dynamic Gold
EVNROLL ER7 - 34"
Titleist Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 - 34"
Taylormade TP5X
Titleist Lightweight Stand Bag
Footjoy Pure Touch Limited Glove

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#42 littledreamer

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 10:18 PM

Got my TS60 on Wednesday, cut, prepped, and installed tip.  Cut to length, D1 Thursday.  Hit 6 drives off my 1st and 2nd holes Friday night.  

Put in bag today for round 1 of my club's championship.

Missed 1 fairway.  Smooth to load, can handle the power if I stepped on it a bit(I'm about 105 average), and damn easy to hit well.  Measured 1 drive (albeit slightly downhill) 289 yards, rain, wet landing.

69, clubhouse leader.  Thanks to this thread!

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#43 littledreamer

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 07:07 PM

Driver performed consistent on day 2 with this shaft, under pressure.  I didn't perform as well as the shaft though with my irons & short game!  Such is life.  Flight is higher than the original KK  X flex that came with my Nike Covert, but spin seems to be about the same, resulting in a bit more distance.  I've only played 2 tournament rounds with the shaft, so my focus wasn't really on length or measuring with a gps.  That being said, one drive I measured (and hit very well) did go 289, huge for me.  Easier to load and release while feeling the head versus the original KK.  The tip is almost a bit more flexible(which I'd hesitate to call more torque) but just as stable as a low torque tip stiff design.  Must be the tech in the tip section.  

I'm happy!

Edited by littledreamer, 12 September 2017 - 10:29 PM.


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#44 desaille

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:26 PM

What are folks driver head weights? I like my heads to be around 201g without adapter so the driver swingweight ends up being D4-D6 range

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#45 dmael

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:14 PM

The Cally Epic driver head that I have my KK Silver TiNi DC Tour S shaft installed in WAS 205g (with adapter), but I changed the sliding weight(s) to increase the total head weight, with adapter, to 209g.  Since I play my driver at slightly less than 45", which is about 3/4" shorter than Callaway's standard playing length for this driver, I needed the extra weight in the clubhead to get to a D3-D4 swingweight, which is what I prefer.


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#46 mlwenzlick

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:37 PM

Picked one of these TS's up on ebay and it feels great. It seems to be a weak flex shaft though contrary to what the thread seems to think....whippy. I'm hooking it pretty good if my timing isn't right, and a hook is NOT my typical miss. When my timing is right this thing is a beast.


Worth tipping it or just cut bait and get an X....is there that much difference between them?
Driver:   Taylormade M3 w/ Tour AD-BB 7x
Fairway: Taylormade M4 5w w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70x
Irons: Nike Vapor Speed 2I w/ Fubuki  AX h400 TI x
  Taylormade TP MB 4-PW/ Steelfiber i95s
Wedges: Callaway MD3 50*, 56*, 60*
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#47 STPBMW

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:49 PM

Yikes I was on board until seeing the last post about it being whippy. Maybe it needs to be tipped 1/2 inch.

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#48 jlebeane13

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:05 PM

In my opinion based on playing different shafts Mitsubishi shafts have always had more of a whippy feel to them over other shafts. Even other shafts of lesser stiffness. I've had billboards, whiteboards, a XT, and, a Dual Core and they all seem to have more play in them.
Titleist 917 D2 9.5* Oban Kiyoshi HB 04 Flex, Tipped 1 inch
Titleist 917 F2  15* Mitsubishi Diamana BB 70 S Flex, Tipped 2 inches
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Titleist 718 AP2 4 - 9 ProjectX 6.0
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Titleist Prov1 (2017)

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#49 spike

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 02:38 PM

I swing around 110, aggressive transition, late release, the ts felt good to me in my epic, not weak to flex for me

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#50 SwingBlues

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 03:00 PM

I will test my Proto DC KK today in my new Ping Max driver. The reason this shaft got my interest is because of the original Tini KK shaft I still own today (with a TM adapter). I think the kick in the shaft made the launch hotter (at least it felt like it) in my old M1 430 head. It quite a unique kick in that driver, I have no felt anything like it so having twice the Tini, it is very interesting. Now, I can understand, for some, this "kick" could be construed as whippy, imho. 108-110 SS

Ping G400 Max 9°, Fujikura Black ATMOS Tour Spec 6-S, Grip Master Kangaroo grip, 44" D3
Callaway Epic GBB 8° draw bias, Fujikura Limited Edition 17/150 "Masters" ATMOS Tour Spec 6X, finished length 44"


Mizuno FliHI 2 iron bent 1* strong, C-Taper Lite
Taylormade UDI 2 iron, 18* KBS C-Taper Lite

Taylormade P790 4-PW, Nippon Modus 3 105  with ProSoft inserts, Grip Master Perforated leather grips
Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 50* and 52* wedges
Nike Engage Toe Sweep 56* wedge
Directed Force  Reno 2.0 Putter 34"


Ball: Srixon XV
Swing: PPGS, a Surgite !!!

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#51 FargoRC

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 04:30 PM

Just picked one of these up off ebay(wanted something in between a stiff and an X and it was $55), can't really test it because spring doesn't seem to ever want to arrive but it doesn't seem overly whippy when I swing it.

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#52 zip7111

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:24 PM

I just got mine today and like the looks of it.  Paid 31.00 with free shipping for a new shaft.  I felt like I stole it!

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#53 STPBMW

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:47 PM

View Postzip7111, on 29 March 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

I just got mine today and like the looks of it.  Paid 31.00 with free shipping for a new shaft.  I felt like I stole it!

You basically did. Did you have eBay bucks or how did you manage that deal?

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#54 zip7111

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 08:16 PM

View PostSTPBMW, on 29 March 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

View Postzip7111, on 29 March 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

I just got mine today and like the looks of it.  Paid 31.00 with free shipping for a new shaft.  I felt like I stole it!

You basically did. Did you have eBay bucks or how did you manage that deal?
I used the last 20% off coupon on eBay.  They had a no reserve auction running starting at 39.99

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#55 SwingBlues

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 10:17 PM

View Postzip7111, on 29 March 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

View PostSTPBMW, on 29 March 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

View Postzip7111, on 29 March 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

I just got mine today and like the looks of it.  Paid 31.00 with free shipping for a new shaft.  I felt like I stole it!

You basically did. Did you have eBay bucks or how did you manage that deal?
I used the last 20% off coupon on eBay.  They had a no reserve auction running starting at 39.99

I got mine for that :)

So tonight, I had the KK DC TS proto on my Ping Max. DEFINITELY an improvement over the original KK Tini (which I still have). I think the biggest improvement was the stability and SOOOOO smooth feel. Very different to my ATMOS/Epic GBB for sure.

Also, it is very stable through the whole swing and I think, a great pairing to my Max head. One thought was that it kicked less than the original KK (from what I recall since its been a long time since I've hit the TM adapter KK Tini).

May be I missed the post, but whats the diff between this Proto KK DC and the "regular OEM" KK DC?

Ping G400 Max 9°, Fujikura Black ATMOS Tour Spec 6-S, Grip Master Kangaroo grip, 44" D3
Callaway Epic GBB 8° draw bias, Fujikura Limited Edition 17/150 "Masters" ATMOS Tour Spec 6X, finished length 44"


Mizuno FliHI 2 iron bent 1* strong, C-Taper Lite
Taylormade UDI 2 iron, 18* KBS C-Taper Lite

Taylormade P790 4-PW, Nippon Modus 3 105  with ProSoft inserts, Grip Master Perforated leather grips
Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 50* and 52* wedges
Nike Engage Toe Sweep 56* wedge
Directed Force  Reno 2.0 Putter 34"


Ball: Srixon XV
Swing: PPGS, a Surgite !!!

25

#56 mlwenzlick

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 12:28 AM

View Postspike, on 28 March 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I swing around 110, aggressive transition, late release, the ts felt good to me in my epic, not weak to flex for me

Now that I think about it, it's similar to a ADDI (for me). I tended to lose that too easily. Only two shafts i've ever had that problem with....HZRDUS on the complete opposite spectrum.
Driver:   Taylormade M3 w/ Tour AD-BB 7x
Fairway: Taylormade M4 5w w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70x
Irons: Nike Vapor Speed 2I w/ Fubuki  AX h400 TI x
  Taylormade TP MB 4-PW/ Steelfiber i95s
Wedges: Callaway MD3 50*, 56*, 60*
Putter: Bettinardi Queen Bee 6
   Scotty Cameron TeI3 Santa Fe raw

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