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Dealing with Dads who Caddie too much


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#31 gsea33

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.


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#32 Forged4ever

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:12 AM

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.
I don't do things to impress anybody, nor do I care the size of a bully. Whenever I've seen it, I've acted. This is my choice and I'm good with it and it has worked out far far more than it has not. They can and have been 6'7" or 5'5", makes no difference to me. You do not talk to a bully and/or an abuser. You beat their *** where they stand. Unfortunately, sometimes with gutter trash, you've got to go into the gutter. Impressive doesn't even come into Play when I see someone weaker or smaller laying on the ground. A child? He's lucky that it was a one shot drop and I was 51yo and not 31yo. Now THAT would have been impressive ;)

  I am am not going to get into it any deeper but when the police Chief was finished with him he would not lay a finger on the child. His wife ended up leaving him shortly there after and taking their three children with her. This incident gave her the courage to act as while apparently he did not touch her, he was orally abusive to her and the children.

Thank you for taking the time to respond  :)

All the Best,
RP

Edited by Forged4ever, 28 February 2017 - 01:30 AM.

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#33 Lil Spanky

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:36 AM

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.

You are clueless.

Edit - Why is Richard posting at 1:30am?  Doesn't he have supervision right now?  :dntknw:

Edited by Lil Spanky, 28 February 2017 - 01:41 AM.

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#34 Forged4ever

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:43 AM

View PostLil Spanky, on 28 February 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.

You are clueless.
Thanks Spanky, though I realize that people have different personalities and handle things differently. I have never gone looking for trouble, and if it is just me, I have walked away from it. However when it concerns someone else, especially the victim of a bully, Never Ever have I walked away and a bully only understands one thing- a beating and humiliation like they are used to administering. I looked at it as I did for the victim what they could not themselves do.

This is just me and is probably linked to being sexually abused at the age of 7yo. Though some might not look at my abuser as a bully, I did and when I got a little older, I made a promise to myself that I would never tolerate ANY type of bullying behavior if I knew about it.

There are 100 reasons not to have acted that day with the 10yo boy-

I only needed one reason to act-

LMAO, Sundowners, lol. The meds have me screwed up(worse than I appear, haha) and I sleep from 6-midnight then end up staying up most of the night, lol.

Take care Bro and have a great season :)

All the Best,
Richard

Edited by Forged4ever, 28 February 2017 - 01:48 AM.

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#35 huskydawg

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 04:17 AM

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known me since I was 20-21yo(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursued any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

It really physically nauseates me-

They are Children...

WTF??

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

Gotta love the irony, him trying to press charges on you when he beat up someone who couldn't defend himself.  I think physical punishment is pretty much a discredited way to raise children, but some people just hang on to it for some reason.  Maybe that's why the world is in such a mess.

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#36 heavy_hitter

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:32 AM

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.

Ridiculous!!

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#37 nikegal

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:38 AM

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known me since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.
What would the appropriate response have been? To speak to the dad? To "report" him to the appropriate authorities? When someone witnesses an act such as Richard did here and does nothing, I am reminded of Burke's quote, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."  Richard did not mention this however he was the one who contacted the police chief and got the "authorities" involved initially, not the dad, even knowing that to do so could obviously cause a problem for himself. I in no way am an advocate for violence or force as a primary remedy for disagreements and I would not judge a man who witnessed this and did nothing and really, as a guy, even if you do not believe in force or violence to settle a dispute, do you really believe for a second that speaking to that dad about his words and actions would have any effect or influence on him or his future behavior towards his son? Even if Richard's action had little or no effect, I'm sure that the man would in the future at least the very least hesitate to so blatantly and publicly strike or abuse his son, not knowing who might see him and would intervene. The boy's mother later told the police chief that Richard doing what he did showed her that her husband was "out of control" and that if a "perfect stranger"(though Richard was the boy's football coach) felt strongly enough about his abusive behavior towards his son to risk possibly going to jail to intervene, how could she as the boy's mother not put a stop to the abuse. It seemed that the husband was very orally abusive to her and the children. Regarding  the size differential between Richard and that dad(6'2" vs. 5'6"), it was comprable to that between the man and his son(5'6" vs. 4'10"-4'11"), but 10yo child stands no chance against an adult though Richard and the man were both adult males, regardless of size. There are some actions that I consider extreme enough that yes, if one is able to respond with force, then that is appropriate. I consider striking or abusing a child, knocking them off of their feet and bringing them to tears to be one such action. As Richard's signature says, a bully only exists because we tolerate their behavior, either out of apathy, fear of getting involved or there are some individuals who by personality or physical presence are just not able to respond as Richard did. He has two very very different sides to him and he is without a doubt the gentlest man that I have ever been around.  In 16+ years he has never so much as raised his voice to me or my children and Pete told me about his temper and told me 16+ years ago that I would never see it directed at either me or my children. His words were prophetic.

Richard is fully able to defend himself and his posts on the board without my intervention though as a lady and a mother, it is comforting to know that I have someone by my side who when he sees wrongdoing, takes a stand and tries to right a wrong. HaHa, Hi Lil Spanky :) Yes, he is without supervision after 11:30-12:45pm and I still get the occasional middle of the night text that sends my notification alert off, lol. This came at 4:04am this morning: "hhi sweeetiie. Whhat yuou doinng? Lovvingglu, me" lololol. He gets his meds at 4:00am and the vision out of his one good eye is blurred for about 30-45 minutes. His system is all screwed up, more so than when he's "normal," hahaha. Have a nice day :) Madison

Edited by nikegal, 28 February 2017 - 09:07 PM.


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#38 Noles

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:58 AM

Reading these reminds me of my son.  He gets very hard on himself on the course.  Its the only thing I really try to correct anymore.  He is 12 now but when he was 10, he played in the local association 13 and under championship.  He played 9 holes of stroke play qualifying and made the second flight of 16.  He won 3 9 hole matches and then had the 18 hole final against a 13 year old who normally would have made the 1st flight but played really poorly in qualifying.  My son really liked this other boy and went in to the match with a nothing to lose attitude.  Before you know it, my son was playing great and winning the match.  He got up and down so many times and the other kid was getting really frustrated.  He is 3 up with 4 to play and misses a 3 footer to end the match on 15.  Still 3 up with 3 to play.  His opponent birdies 16 to extend the match and my son starts balling.  Full on tears.  Even the other kids dad tried to calm him down.  The 17th hole was a long par 5 that my son had not made par on all week.  Advantage to the 13 year old.  In addition, there was a huge pond right of the fairway in the landing area, and my son's miss with driver was always right.  I was thinking that this was not going to end well.  I could see my son wiping tears off of his cheek as he was over the ball.  To his credit, he gutted one right down the middle, made par on the hole and won the match 3 and 1.  I was really impressed that he was able to get himself under control.  So going forward, while I try to help him prevent losing his cool, I also focus on the ability to regroup and move on since getting upset seems almost unavoidable at this age.

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#39 heavy_hitter

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:27 AM

View PostNoles, on 28 February 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Reading these reminds me of my son.  He gets very hard on himself on the course.  Its the only thing I really try to correct anymore.  He is 12 now but when he was 10, he played in the local association 13 and under championship.  He played 9 holes of stroke play qualifying and made the second flight of 16.  He won 3 9 hole matches and then had the 18 hole final against a 13 year old who normally would have made the 1st flight but played really poorly in qualifying.  My son really liked this other boy and went in to the match with a nothing to lose attitude.  Before you know it, my son was playing great and winning the match.  He got up and down so many times and the other kid was getting really frustrated.  He is 3 up with 4 to play and misses a 3 footer to end the match on 15.  Still 3 up with 3 to play.  His opponent birdies 16 to extend the match and my son starts balling.  Full on tears.  Even the other kids dad tried to calm him down.  The 17th hole was a long par 5 that my son had not made par on all week.  Advantage to the 13 year old.  In addition, there was a huge pond right of the fairway in the landing area, and my son's miss with driver was always right.  I was thinking that this was not going to end well.  I could see my son wiping tears off of his cheek as he was over the ball.  To his credit, he gutted one right down the middle, made par on the hole and won the match 3 and 1.  I was really impressed that he was able to get himself under control.  So going forward, while I try to help him prevent losing his cool, I also focus on the ability to regroup and move on since getting upset seems almost unavoidable at this age.

I am in the same exact boat.  Funny thing is, mine is better mentally when I am not caddying than when I am.  I think part of it is kids not wanting to disappoint their parents.  I honestly could care less what he shoots.  I just enjoy watching mine play and have fun.  I hate caddying because it is stressful when he is moody.  I would much rather be on the sideline with my headphones in listening to music.

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#40 nikegal

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 11:08 AM

As a Teacher when working with a child that has "post shot reaction issues," I find that that for me as a Teacher, I have better success with curbing their negative reactions if I tie it into their performance and how this hurts their ability to Play to their optimum level, the very reason that they usually are upset, versus a behavior/etiquette issue tie in such as Richard's grandmother did. Plus, I'm not their mother or grandmother, lol. Depending on their age, I show them that by losing their control, temper and most importantly their focus, they in fact almost certainly destroy their ability to hit their next shot shot successfully. Depending on their maturity level more so than age, I have begun to introduce visualization/imaging as both a tool for their PSR and I find more importantly for a child in the 12-14yo age group, their Post Shot Routine, as most children, especially if they are competitive and or want to please, are very demanding of themselves, so I try to get them to channel their energy and focus to the shot that they wanted to hit versus the shot that they did hit if their prior swing, shot or outcome was not what they had wanted. We can hit good solid shots while not having a bullet proof PSR, though we will not be able to hit these shots consistently over holes and rounds and especially under pressure though I feel that it is more important to teach a younger child how to handle, process and quickly forget a poor shot than it is to deal with a PSR. Once they have a solid PostSR, a PSR is cake because they've already hit fine shots withought one or with a very inconsistent one. As you all know, not being able to totally let go of a poor swing, shot or outcome(double bogie) can lead to a tail spin that the average Am cannot pull themselves out of, much less a child.

I then have them going from picturing their desired shot to just walking up the fairway/rough and thinking of their next shot and what they will have to to do to hit it. Obviously, it depends on the individual child. As I've spoken to before, I interview both parents prior to taking a child as a student and if for any reason, unless it is a one parent household, if this cannot be arranged for whatever reason, then I will give them a few names of other Teachers who work with children as I am not the Teacher for them. What I have found is that the children who have a parent(usually a father) who has what my friends and I call the "EC(Earl Complex after you know who, lol)" will have more behavioral or performance reaction issues(PRI) than a child who's parent(s) is not "overly" involved in their game, just supporting them as loving parents. I usually screen these parents/children out during the interview as it is not fair to the child and inhibits me from really helping the child. I have also found that it is much easier on the child if a parent does not caddie for them as even if the father is the "perfect" parent/caddie, a child will none the less try to please by trying to be perfect, no matter what the parent says otherwise, and this only inhibits and hurts the child's ability to perform and ultimately enjoy their round. I understand that there are exceptions, and I never cease to meet all of those, hahaha. Have a nice day and good luck guys :) Madison

Edited by nikegal, 28 February 2017 - 09:25 PM.


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#41 Palmetto Golfer

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:27 PM

View PostForged4ever, on 28 February 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

View Postgsea33, on 28 February 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 27 February 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostYanki01, on 13 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I didn't play much tournament golf when i was a kid but i remember when i was playing baseball or football, my parents wouldn't sit in the stands. they'd park the truck in the outfield and sit there to get away from the crazy parents. parents try to live through their kids too much.
My Parents did the very same thing with my Jr & Senior HS football. Parents are the reason that I got out of youth coaching. I served as an asst.  ILB coach during spring & fall ball(3 a days) for 7 seasons for the University of Pittsburgh, though I much more enjoyed working with and coaching the lil guys, ages 8-12yo.

The parents, specifically the fathers, ruined it. I actually had this fat little five foot nothin(actually about 5'-5"-5'6") punk hit his 10yo son hard enough with a forearm that he knocked him down supposedly to "toughen him up(the little boy did not want to be out there and I did my best to shield him from the older boys, as this was a 10-12yo division) and I in turn dropped him and got suspended for the rest of the season. He was going to file charges however the local Police Chief has known since I was 20-21 years old(this was in 2011) and so he told the guy that if he pursues any type of charges, criminal or civil, that he would have Youth Services so involved in his life that he would know em better than he knew his wife by the time that they were finished.

The sad thing??

He wasn't close to the worst father, lol

I cannot watch those short game videos/shows

What I've seen at my range and at the club is as bad and worse than what I saw on a football field.

I really physically nauseates me-

I wish you and your children the very best :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️
RP

so your 6'+ ex ball player and you drop someone 5'6" dam impressive. all u did was piss the father off more and guess who had to go home with him.
I don't do things to impress anybody, nor do I care the size of a bully. Whenever I've seen it, I've acted. This is my choice and I'm good with it and it has worked out far far more than it has not. They can and have been 6'7" or 5'5", makes no difference to me. You do not talk to a bully and/or an abuser. You beat their *** where they stand. Unfortunately, sometimes with gutter trash, you've got to go into the gutter. Impressive doesn't even come into Play when I see someone weaker or smaller laying on the ground. A child? He's lucky that it was a one shot drop and I was 51yo and not 31yo. Now THAT would have been impressive ;)

  I am am not going to get into it any deeper but when the police Chief was finished with him he would not lay a finger on the child. His wife ended up leaving him shortly there after and taking their three children with her. This incident gave her the courage to act as while apparently he did not touch her, he was orally abusive to her and the children.

Thank you for taking the time to respond  :)

All the Best,
RP

IMO you showed restraint not to pummel him into the ground...well done

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#42 huskydawg

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:11 PM

View PostNoles, on 28 February 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Reading these reminds me of my son.  He gets very hard on himself on the course.  Its the only thing I really try to correct anymore.  He is 12 now but when he was 10, he played in the local association 13 and under championship.  He played 9 holes of stroke play qualifying and made the second flight of 16.  He won 3 9 hole matches and then had the 18 hole final against a 13 year old who normally would have made the 1st flight but played really poorly in qualifying.  My son really liked this other boy and went in to the match with a nothing to lose attitude.  Before you know it, my son was playing great and winning the match.  He got up and down so many times and the other kid was getting really frustrated.  He is 3 up with 4 to play and misses a 3 footer to end the match on 15.  Still 3 up with 3 to play.  His opponent birdies 16 to extend the match and my son starts balling.  Full on tears.  Even the other kids dad tried to calm him down.  The 17th hole was a long par 5 that my son had not made par on all week.  Advantage to the 13 year old.  In addition, there was a huge pond right of the fairway in the landing area, and my son's miss with driver was always right.  I was thinking that this was not going to end well.  I could see my son wiping tears off of his cheek as he was over the ball.  To his credit, he gutted one right down the middle, made par on the hole and won the match 3 and 1.  I was really impressed that he was able to get himself under control.  So going forward, while I try to help him prevent losing his cool, I also focus on the ability to regroup and move on since getting upset seems almost unavoidable at this age.

Thank you for sharing, you have a good head on your shoulders.  Many wasted years were spent until I realized this finally realized this truth: Being hard on yourself does not mean you are mentally tough, true mental toughness is staying positive no matter what the circumstances.  I held a lot of guilt and self-resentment and it did me absolutely no good.  Hard for me to admit but even to the point of self-injury.  Parents hit me occasionally so I lived life with the impression that I deserved to be punished for every time I screwed up and that I didn't deserve to be happy.  Now I realized that you just have to be relentlessly self-forgiving and forgiving to others.  If a kid really messes up there are other, more productive ways to firmly get your point across without yelling or getting physical with him or her.
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#43 Palmetto Golfer

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:05 AM

View Posthuskydawg, on 28 February 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

View PostNoles, on 28 February 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Reading these reminds me of my son.  He gets very hard on himself on the course.  Its the only thing I really try to correct anymore.  He is 12 now but when he was 10, he played in the local association 13 and under championship.  He played 9 holes of stroke play qualifying and made the second flight of 16.  He won 3 9 hole matches and then had the 18 hole final against a 13 year old who normally would have made the 1st flight but played really poorly in qualifying.  My son really liked this other boy and went in to the match with a nothing to lose attitude.  Before you know it, my son was playing great and winning the match.  He got up and down so many times and the other kid was getting really frustrated.  He is 3 up with 4 to play and misses a 3 footer to end the match on 15.  Still 3 up with 3 to play.  His opponent birdies 16 to extend the match and my son starts balling.  Full on tears.  Even the other kids dad tried to calm him down.  The 17th hole was a long par 5 that my son had not made par on all week.  Advantage to the 13 year old.  In addition, there was a huge pond right of the fairway in the landing area, and my son's miss with driver was always right.  I was thinking that this was not going to end well.  I could see my son wiping tears off of his cheek as he was over the ball.  To his credit, he gutted one right down the middle, made par on the hole and won the match 3 and 1.  I was really impressed that he was able to get himself under control.  So going forward, while I try to help him prevent losing his cool, I also focus on the ability to regroup and move on since getting upset seems almost unavoidable at this age.

Being hard on yourself does not mean you are mentally tough, true mental toughness is staying positive no matter what the circumstances.

wow...well said.  I have never thought of it that way before.  Thank you for sharing your experience.

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#44 Yelwar

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:42 PM

Some of you guys have had to deal with some real "fun" parents.  I am glad my experience has been almost completely positive.  Speaking from my own experience and perspective about  caddying and trying not to over-coach my son.  Helping him could absolutely make a difference in a score, but why would I want to do that?  I want him to be able to think for himself when he is out on the course and that involves dealing with the pre-shot and post-shot (when it isn't good).  When we practice I am more active asking questions (what kind of shot do you want to hit here, where is the best place to miss, what kind of putt do you want, etc.) and when he first started playing tournaments we'd talk about those things but I never viewed that as over coaching.  It might be hard to bite your tongue as you see your kid line up wrong to hit a tee shot but how else will they learn?  In fact he got mad at me last year.  He was tied in the lead of a tournament with two holes left to play.  Putting out on the 2nd to last hole he got lazy and tapped in his putt after a lag putt and kept the flag in.  I could see it coming and could have casually reminded him to pull the flag out but I didn't.  When I explained that he had received a penalty and lost a stroke I got the "well why didn't you tell me?!".  I asked him if he was supposed to putt with the flag in, "well no but..".  I guarantee he will never leave the flag in again for a casual tap in...until maybe 2018 when it isn't a penalty.

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#45 Sean2

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

Many parents are living their lives vicariously through their children...and a child's lack of performance is a direct affront to "visions". They take it personally. Or, they feel if their child does well, they look good...and vice-versa.

My best friend's daughter is in her second year on the LPGA Tour. When she was a junior, she was playing in a USGA Junior Girls qualifier (she was the medalist), and I caddied for her. They wouldn't allow parents to caddy due to several incidents like you describe.

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#46 sonomaca

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 01:26 AM

My son played US Kids golf for several years.  Made it to US World Cup team. The four things I do out there are

1) Make sure he eats
2) Make sure he drinks
3) Spot balls
4) Serve as a "body guard" to make sure other parents don't try to distract him or interfere with his game, which some definitely will do.  If other players are trying to distract him, I let him handle that.

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#47 leejohnkieh

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:53 AM

I personally don't have kids yet but have you guys see the shows on Netflix etc. where the focus is on the parents that are pushing their kids?

It's hard to watch them treat their kids like that. :WTF:

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#48 llewol007

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:01 PM

Im telling you, you are only as good as your up bringing. I always chuckle at parents who cant seem to understand why they their kid curse or throw a tantrum on the  golf course and sure enough, the parent is doing the same exact thing they do not want them to be doing. I have been in organized sports enough and witnessed it through a friend of mine who was a top wrestler in the state. Boy his dad was on him like you would not want on anybody let alone your own son, always getting in shouting matches and yelling at him if he didnt live up to the hype his dad created. I get the whole competitiveness but if we miss the whole point of teaching these kids the etiquette portion of golf and being a gracious runner up or loser than the game itself has taken the biggest step back. I being a 4kidsgolfer, know that it is part of the game to teach them the right way to play and that not only includes the ups but also the downs. Hey as cheesy as it sounds, if they cant handle pressure on a golf course, they have no chance in their everyday lives. Golf is supposed to be a getaway in my opinion.
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#49 Forged4ever

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:38 PM

View Postsonomaca, on 10 April 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

4) Serve as a "body guard" to make sure other parents don't try to distract him or interfere with his game, which some definitely will do.  If other players are trying to distract him, I let him handle that.
I never would have believed this or I should say that I wouldn't have believed that an adult, and in the cases that I am speaking of they were of the male sexual orientation, and a father to boot, would ever even think to distract, harass or in one case intimidate a child, and I am talking children here though I do not know your son's age, however after listening to some stories from Agg's, who's son for those of you not familiar is Matthew Hansen, a Canadian PGAer, when he was 12, 13 and 14yo.

WTF???

Then I witnessed a father who flipped my 13yo niece off as she ran off of the field after scoring the winning goal in sudden death in a Fla Select soccer game.

I didn't see it that much when I coached pee-wee football but it's a damn shame that in a sport like golf, you've gotta take your son's back.

He'll look back some day and realize how lucky he was to land in the crib that he did :) !!

Have a great season my Friend👊

All the Best,
Richard

Edited by Forged4ever, 11 April 2017 - 01:40 PM.

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#50 Forged4ever

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:16 PM

View Postllewol007, on 11 April 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Im telling you, you are only as good as your up bringing. I always chuckle at parents who cant seem to understand why they their kid curse or throw a tantrum on the  golf course and sure enough, the parent is doing the same exact thing they do not want them to be doing. I have been in organized sports enough and witnessed it through a friend of mine who was a top wrestler in the state. Boy his dad was on him like you would not want on anybody let alone your own son, always getting in shouting matches and yelling at him if he didnt live up to the hype his dad created. I get the whole competitiveness but if we miss the whole point of teaching these kids the etiquette portion of golf and being a gracious runner up or loser than the game itself has taken the biggest step back. I being a 4kidsgolfer, know that it is part of the game to teach them the right way to play and that not only includes the ups but also the downs. Hey as cheesy as it sounds, if they cant handle pressure on a golf course, they have no chance in their everyday lives. Golf is supposed to be a getaway in my opinion.
Couldn't agree more Ile!!

Great post!!

A parent's job should be to teach manners, etiquette and instill a moral compass in their child that will guide them through a tumultuous, often times "gray," versus black & white, and at times brutal life that lies ahead of them. The most influential individuals in my life, My Mother, Grandmother & Step-Grandfather and Pete, taught me this and to a person, never ever tolerated anything less than my Best effort regarding appropriate behavior etiquette and manners. None of those mentioned ever consciously spoke of or taught me about "competitiveness." If anything, they all at various times reigned me and my "competitiveness" in, especially my Grandmother and Pete, and my Grandmother is the second most competitive indidual that I've ever met in my life.

Did my football coaches stoke that competitive fire?

Absolutely they did, as was their job.

However that was not the job of those closest to me in my life.

I really truly believe that if a parent has to stoke that competitive fire in their child on an athletic field, regardless the sport, then that child is either not ready to compete or their personality is such that they would be better off doing something else with their time. As I look and think back to my closest friends and teammates, again regardless of whether it was football or golf, and their parents Played the same role as mine. They did not have to be the ones to instill that competitive spark or stoke the fire.

They were there to instill and set the moral compass-

It's a damn shame that we've lost our way to this degree cuz you're so right Bro, with parents acting like so many do today, what kind of chance do those kids really have????

Again, excellent post!!

Stay well my Friend👊
RP

Edited by Forged4ever, 11 April 2017 - 04:09 PM.

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#51 JorgeGomez

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:52 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 13 February 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

After a couple of years of doing tournaments with my kids it amazes me how some dads react. I am sure you can insert mom in some cases as well but its generally speaking dads.

We just started our first tournament and it amazes me how every dad likes to be critical of the Dads on short game but actually do the same things to their kids. When you yell at you kids because she didn't get par  It really disgusts me this kind of behavior. The older they get the worse I seem to see.

The one thing I hate most is the Dads who try coach every shot and then get mad when is misses.   If you kids 11 or 12 and can not hit the ball strait or putt on their own you may need to make sure they have more lessons.  Let the kids play and have fun.


I also can't stand it when dads get mad when their kids is losing. Do you really think that will help. I understand that sometimes you need to coach your kids especially girls if they are having a bad day.  My suggesting is if things go really bad take the max on a hole or two and let them get their mental game and keep playing .  The tournaments she is playing in doesn't matter so I rather she play them out usually and never had to withdraw.

The parents also are the ones that teach bad or plain dangerous habits.  I had dad intentionally run up the fairway after there kids shot and stand 100 yards up in fairway. Finally had to tell them to stop doing since my daughter was worried about hitting and missing shots.  I hate this for two reasons you can see if there dropping a ball and second you actually might hit them. What irked me the dad joked about head games to mess up other players later.

These dads are very belligerent and will argue about rules and some will actually fight you on the course. So one has to wonder the best way to deal with it.

Hello Parents,

This topic is really important. I had been in a lot of junior tournaments in the US and in Mexico.
This issue with parents is worldwide.

Im a golf coach and professional also. I have a 10 year old boy who doesn't like golf. As you may think thats gone me crazy... But no.
The most important aspect in a kid is to make them do what they really love, what they are passionate about. I think a lot of parents want their kids to play golf and win because they (parents) wants that or because they (parents) can't do it when they where young... So they transmitted they frustrated goal to their kids...

We need to remember that we are the Parents and we need to give our children love, confidence and support, no matter what they want in life.

Also every kid has to learn by his own mistakes, as same as we do as adults and when we were kids, that´s the way to rise a good confident with a good self esteem and when they are adults they can handle with life problems.

Remember that the game of Golf is a very good game that educates you for life.

So, my final advise is to do what you can do best for your own champions (kids) and hopefully your example will be learned for other parents.

Thank you kindly,
Jorge
Jorge Gómez
PGAM Instructor Class A
Author of Loving the Champion - Parenting Young Golf Champions
http://bookstore.bal...e-Champion.aspx

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#52 kekoa

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 12:15 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 27 February 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

View PostPat du Golf, on 26 February 2017 - 11:29 PM, said:

I will never enroll my kids in the US kids Tournaments again. Our first year was just a disaster to the point when my boy asked me "Daddy, why are these parents make their little children cry all the time, it's just a game, right?" Having 7-9 yr old go thru this is not cool.
This barrage of screams have long term effect on the kids self-esteem.
The league should deal with these overbearing parents. Our kids should not be a mean for our future retirement..$$.

There are two kinds of kids that cry on the course.

1.  The parent that makes the kid cry.  Yelling at them about swing, score, etc.  This is the parent that wants their kid to be the next Tiger Woods at 9 years old.

2.  The kid that has high expectations, doesn't like what they just did, and doesn't understand how to emotionally handle it.  The emotion can come out as anger, pouting, whining, and crying.  This isn't about golf golf at all, but handling the emotions and being able to still compete.

Number 2 is where I am at.  My kid walks off number 11 in a tournament yesterday and just made par.  He is angered that he just made par on a hole.  Stomps his feet and pounds his putter in the ground.  Starts pouting.  I am shaking my head at him and go into lecture that he is more concerned with score and winning.  Rather than playing the course he is focused on another player in the group that just birdied.  He is 1 over par at this point and is worried about the other kid and winning or losing.  He goes on to bogey the next two holes.  Swing changes (starts swing harder), attitude changed, and more pouting and whining comes with it.  What do you do?  I know my kid and it is basically getting him to the side and yelling at him to get over it.  Kind of waking him up a little bit to show him what he is doing to himself after the two holes.

I honestly don't care if my kid shoots 100.  I want him to be a gentleman on the course.  I think sometimes kids, I know mine does, thinks that I will think less of him if he doesn't play well.  I could honestly care less.  The only thing that I care about is him respecting the game, respecting his opponents, being honest, and carrying himself like a gentleman.  You win with class and you lose with class.

As I have watched kids play this game, it seems that the kids that are better are very rough on themselves.  Back when they were learning, they don't care if they make a quadruple bogey.  As they get better they are mad when they make bogey, or don't play well.  It is weird.

Very well said.  My son also suffers from #2.   When he was an early 6, he was really out there just having fun while at the same time trying his best to hit good golf shots and put up a score.  When he was a late 6, something happened and my son would have utter meltdowns on the course.  Mind you the first time he did it, he was -4 through 8.  After a few more tournaments with crying, whining, pouting, I was actually considering having him quit for a while.  This type of trauma just isn't worth it for a kid.  My son just turned 7 and he is slowly getting better and better at handling adversity on the course.  Toughest part now is having him try to concentrate on his own game instead of worrying about what his competitors are doing.

I'm also looking for a tour where the parents don't caddy.  I think in the the long run it will be much better for my son.  

I've also witnessed a few altercations in US Kids tournaments that were close to turning very ugly.

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#53 BeerPerHole

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:53 PM

I'll have to study this thread. My son is starting in Jr. PGA soon and I imagine I'll see some of this boorish behavior. I don't have to tell my son to try to win. That comes automatically from within him. I will tell him to have fun. I'll just cheer and enjoy it.

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#54 Baitkiller

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:29 PM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 18 April 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'll have to study this thread. My son is starting in Jr. PGA soon and I imagine I'll see some of this boorish behavior. I don't have to tell my son to try to win. That comes automatically from within him. I will tell him to have fun. I'll just cheer and enjoy it.

No caddies in JR PGA. That's why my son likes  it.
I can Break Rocks
Krank F-5.. UST Tour and or the Cobra F7+ > no winner yet.
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XXIO 5 wood , proprietary shaft
Wilson 2 iron from the 1980s, teaspoon shaft unknown.
Mizuno MP-52 3-PW (48*), DG X100, may soon get recoils.
Mizuno MP R-12 at 54* and 60* DG spinners.
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THE Kirkland Signature 4 piece urethane cover golf ball.

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#55 Noles

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:40 AM

View PostBaitkiller, on 18 April 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 18 April 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'll have to study this thread. My son is starting in Jr. PGA soon and I imagine I'll see some of this boorish behavior. I don't have to tell my son to try to win. That comes automatically from within him. I will tell him to have fun. I'll just cheer and enjoy it.

No caddies in JR PGA. That's why my son likes  it.
  It is certainly better, but it brings in a whole different issue with parents as spectators.


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#56 Bob Cat

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:13 AM

The joy of watching your child learn and understand how to navigate the challenges of golf are lost when micromanaging during a contest.
There's PLENTY of opportunity to teach outside of the event itself.  Let 'em grow!

Dang, I miss those years.
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#57 longballjs

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:42 PM

I guess I was really lucky.  I started going to the range and putting green with my dad when I was 3 years old.  As i grew older, I had no bigger cheerleader for me than my father, who also kept me in proper perspective.  I played 3-5 days a week growing up with my dad between weekends and after his work.  He even ran for golf chairman, so he could change the rule about non-bond holders teeing off before 9 am and got me in to the dew-dusters (7-8 am) to play against actual competition.  He never critiqued me to the point of tears, or quite frankly the point of anger.  He was patient, understanding, and always pulling for me in the appropriate way.  

If we played on a weekday afternoon, and i hit a ball behind a tree with 220 to the green and danger, but felt that a hooded 2 iron from the rough was the way to go, he would let me go and do it.  And then when i hung it out, over cooked it, or hit the tree, he had a ball ready, threw it towards my feet and said play two and see which ends up better.  Id hit a seven iron to 80 yards wedge up and maybe make a putt.  He would tell me there is more than one way to skin a cat and never bring it up again.  

We were lucky enough to caddy for each other when we won the club championship, me on his bag in 1999 (he beat me in the 2nd round by draining a 20 footer on the 19th hole) and he on mine in 2002.  There was never anything other than positive between us.  We may try to discourage a poor shot, almost always by suggesting another shot, but never get down on the shot or each other.  

When he followed me during junior golf, the only thing I ever heard him say was c'mon jay! or Keep it up! or you're doing great! or you'll get em on the next hole! We have always discussed how the brain processes negative thoughts and for that reason always avoided trying to give one another a negative thought.  

My father taught me about the game, mental toughness, gamesmanship, course management, green reading, and I honestly don't have one negative thing to say about my father and my golf.  I feel truly sorry for these people with horror stories.  

He even went so far as to stand up to my grandfather who did get on me once during a round.  We were playing in florida, back then I was playing the titleist professional.  My grandfather (who I never once had a bad thing to say about) was as cheap as the day is long (drank natty light, played balls he bought at the highway store in orange bags, and when he lost that gently used pinnacle in the palmetto fields, would come out looking as if he'd been hit by shrapnel).  I had lost 2 brand new balls right into a hazard and he started screaming about how I had just thrown 5 or 6 dollars down the drain and that I seemed as if not to care.  Granted, we were well enough off that 5 dollars in golf balls wasn't going to break any banks, and I wasnt thrilled that I was going to be hitting five from the tee, but I remember my dad getting in his face and telling him to lay off me, at that stage of my game (14-15 years old) he would rather me be concerned with trying to hit a fairway ,instead of worrying about not losing a ball.  Even then, he would not allow negative thoughts around me.  

I was/am truly blessed.   :friends:

Edited by longballjs, 19 April 2017 - 02:31 PM.

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#58 Baitkiller

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:36 PM

View PostNoles, on 19 April 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

View PostBaitkiller, on 18 April 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 18 April 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'll have to study this thread. My son is starting in Jr. PGA soon and I imagine I'll see some of this boorish behavior. I don't have to tell my son to try to win. That comes automatically from within him. I will tell him to have fun. I'll just cheer and enjoy it.

No caddies in JR PGA. That's why my son likes  it.
  It is certainly better, but it brings in a whole different issue with parents as spectators.

I can Break Rocks
Krank F-5.. UST Tour and or the Cobra F7+ > no winner yet.
Adams Speedline 15* Wasabi stiff
XXIO 5 wood , proprietary shaft
Wilson 2 iron from the 1980s, teaspoon shaft unknown.
Mizuno MP-52 3-PW (48*), DG X100, may soon get recoils.
Mizuno MP R-12 at 54* and 60* DG spinners.
Bettinardi C-01
THE Kirkland Signature 4 piece urethane cover golf ball.

28

#59 tatertot

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:52 PM

View PostBrianMcG, on 13 February 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

I'm glad I grew up playing golf when I did. There were never parents ANYWHERE on the golf course.  The coaches all hung out in the bar or the putting green waiting for you to finish.

Now you'll see parents/coaches driving golf carts all over the course like its the freaking Ryder Cup or something.  If I was in charge of junior tournament rule number 1 would be, NO SPECTATORS ALLOWED ON THE COURSE.

That's the way I grew up playing ... we didn't see an adult from the time he explained the rules (which we knew better than he did) to when we turned the cards in. I was at the course playing front of a high school tournament the other night, they had spectators in carts, and coaches buzzing around with coolers on the backs of the carts.
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#60 BeerPerHole

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:03 PM

This reminds me... I played pop warner football. I'd never be involved in junior football now. For one, I think it's too hard on the body (mine is a living example). But, the parental behavior is horrible. My neighbor/buddy coaches with his son the same age as mine (actually, they were born on the same day!). The stories I hear from him are troubling.


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