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Bitcoin / Crypto (merged)


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#91 bscinstnct

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:25 AM

Worth keeping an eye on....



http://www.zdnet.com...hey-likely-are/


Reckon your ICO tokens aren't securities? The SEC chair says they likely are



Clayton struck out at the idea of an ICO avoiding security laws simply because the traditional ledger is replaced by a blockchain entry.

A change in the structure of a securities offering does not change the fundamental point that when a security is being offered, our securities laws must be followed," Clayton wrote in a statement.
"By and large, the structures of initial coin offerings that I have seen promoted involve the offer and sale of securities and directly implicate the securities registration requirements and other investor protection provisions of our federal securities laws."

"Generally speaking, these laws provide that investors deserve to know what they are investing in and the relevant risks involved."

Clayton warned "Main Street" investors that if they participate in any coin offerings, they go in with their eyes open, and be aware that no ICOs have registered with the SEC.


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#92 raynorfan1

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:33 AM

It's the Wild West out there right now...but the threat (/reality) of government regulation is the existential threat that will take the air out of this bubble.

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#93 Melanchthon

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:05 PM

The bubble will burst for 95% of coins. But those that survive will IMO make it very very big.

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#94 i*windows

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:46 AM

first ever German ICO - today

https://ico.savedroid.com

Not sure if anyone is interested, but if you like Crypto coins, this could be some good action. 100 coins = 1 euro.

the app already has 100k downloads, processes millions of transactions and looks like it could be a winner. The company aim to take the pain out of crypto by using an app which does the heavy lifting for you. No need to register with exchanges, get wallets set up etc.


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#95 raynorfan1

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:57 AM

View PostMelanchthon, on 11 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

The bubble will burst for 95% of coins. But those that survive will IMO make it very very big.

The problem is that almost by definition, they can't.

The market is having a hard time wrapping it's head around this, but the crypto currencies have a fundamental problem: you can either be a currency (dollars/euros/etc.) or an investment (equities, etc.) but it's very very hard to be both (gold bullion). The problem with the cryptos is that their value is purported to be in the transactional advantages that they have as a currency (a medium of exchange), but as long as their value is increasing on par with an investment, they're too valuable to use to actually settle a transaction.

Inflation is one of the reasons that M1 functions as a currency - people actually don't want to hold the asset - they would rather exchange it for something of physical or investment value.


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#96 i*windows

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:24 PM

what are you guys in?

I have XRP (bought early and bought at peak), ETN, TRX, ADA and just bought savedroid at 0.01
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#97 Melanchthon

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

XRP, ADA and TRX for me.

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#98 i*windows

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 03:21 AM

good options
Just hit the damn ball.
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#99 bscinstnct

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:15 PM

Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

https://www.google.c...50-to-1000/amp/

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#100 moegolfer11

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:59 AM

not quite sure what to do here. Normally on a equities dip I'll just buy up more. But It really seems like cryptos are on the downfall. Not much fundamentals to study and the technicals aren't much better.

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#101 Crashhays

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 12:47 PM

I'm HODL.  I want to buy a ton of LTC at the price it's been at all morning.....but I too am a little worried with how 90% of the market is down.

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#102 straightshot7

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.

They have fundamental advantages over physical, one nation based currencies such as seamless International transactions, immediate settlement, lower fees, decentralization, reduced fraud, and universal access for anyone with the Internet. Not to mention blockchain technology.

That's why you see AMEX and Moneygram doing deals with Ripple.

And IBM working with Stellar.

Cryptocurrency is the advant of a new industry. The question is not if it will be bigger 10 years from now--the question is what companies and coins will emerge as the market leaders.

My personal recommendation is to buy the top 10 coins by market cap and throw in a couple great smaller ones like Tron and Verge (you can do your own research to decide what team, plan, and product you like best).

Only put in an amount of money you are comfortable losing, since there will be wild swings and you don't want to be sweating and stressing. Think long term. Plan to hold for years.

Sign up to Coinbase to buy crypto using USD (it's not like your USD is the best investment anyway).

Use your debit card for instant purchase of BTC or Ethereum or Litecoin. BUT you will be hit with around 4% fees.

If you don't mind waiting 5 business days, link up your bank account to Coinbase.

This is how you avoid fees:

Deposit funds to your Coinbase USD Wallet (they call it stored value account) from your bank account. Once the funds have deposited...

Go to GDAX.com (owned by and linked to Coinbase)--deposit your USD to GDAX.

Purchase BTC, Ethereum, or Litecoin on GDAX (they have much lower fees than Coinbase).

Transfer some of your chosen coin to Binance (you need to sign up for a Binance account at binance.com).

Litecoin will transfer fastest. BTC and Ethereum take longer (up to 24 hours if you are doing a small transaction). But more likely it will take less than 30 minutes.

Once on Binance, use your BTC, Ether, or Litecoin to buy some smaller coins (XRP, ADA, TRX, etc).

Now is a good time to buy.

This is the little I have learned over the past year or so.

Feel free to PM me w any questions. All the best.

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#103 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:12 PM

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.

They have fundamental advantages over physical, one nation based currencies such as seamless International transactions, immediate settlement, lower fees, decentralization, reduced fraud, and universal access for anyone with the Internet. Not to mention blockchain technology.

That's why you see AMEX and Moneygram doing deals with Ripple.

And IBM working with Stellar.

Cryptocurrency is the advant of a new industry. The question is not if it will be bigger 10 years from now--the question is what companies and coins will emerge as the market leaders.

My personal recommendation is to buy the top 10 coins by market cap and throw in a couple great smaller ones like Tron and Verge (you can do your own research to decide what team, plan, and product you like best).

Only put in an amount of money you are comfortable losing, since there will be wild swings and you don't want to be sweating and stressing. Think long term. Plan to hold for years.

Sign up to Coinbase to buy crypto using USD (it's not like your USD is the best investment anyway).

Use your debit card for instant purchase of BTC or Ethereum or Litecoin. BUT you will be hit with around 4% fees.

If you don't mind waiting 5 business days, link up your bank account to Coinbase.

This is how you avoid fees:

Deposit funds to your Coinbase USD Wallet (they call it stored value account) from your bank account. Once the funds have deposited...

Go to GDAX.com (owned by and linked to Coinbase)--deposit your USD to GDAX.

Purchase BTC, Ethereum, or Litecoin on GDAX (they have much lower fees than Coinbase).

Transfer some of your chosen coin to Binance (you need to sign up for a Binance account at binance.com).

Litecoin will transfer fastest. BTC and Ethereum take longer (up to 24 hours if you are doing a small transaction). But more likely it will take less than 30 minutes.

Once on Binance, use your BTC, Ether, or Litecoin to buy some smaller coins (XRP, ADA, TRX, etc).

Now is a good time to buy.

This is the little I have learned over the past year or so.

Feel free to PM me w any questions. All the best.

this is pretty good advice.

if anyone has been on the fence now is as good as a time to enter as any.
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#104 bscinstnct

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:33 PM

Let's not forget that in the world of tech, $hit moves fast and it's ruthless.

Forget about competitors to Bitcoin.

There is already competition for Blockchain tech as a whole, This is part of evolution, after all.

That said, I applaud those of you who are "pioneer" investors in this stuff and congrats for getting in early.




Hashgraph vs. Blockchain Is the end of Bitcoin and Ethereum near?


https://coincodex.co...-ethereum-near/

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#105 moegolfer11

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:46 PM

View PostHoosierMizuno, on 17 January 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.

They have fundamental advantages over physical, one nation based currencies such as seamless International transactions, immediate settlement, lower fees, decentralization, reduced fraud, and universal access for anyone with the Internet. Not to mention blockchain technology.

That's why you see AMEX and Moneygram doing deals with Ripple.

And IBM working with Stellar.

Cryptocurrency is the advant of a new industry. The question is not if it will be bigger 10 years from now--the question is what companies and coins will emerge as the market leaders.

My personal recommendation is to buy the top 10 coins by market cap and throw in a couple great smaller ones like Tron and Verge (you can do your own research to decide what team, plan, and product you like best).

Only put in an amount of money you are comfortable losing, since there will be wild swings and you don't want to be sweating and stressing. Think long term. Plan to hold for years.

Sign up to Coinbase to buy crypto using USD (it's not like your USD is the best investment anyway).

Use your debit card for instant purchase of BTC or Ethereum or Litecoin. BUT you will be hit with around 4% fees.

If you don't mind waiting 5 business days, link up your bank account to Coinbase.

This is how you avoid fees:

Deposit funds to your Coinbase USD Wallet (they call it stored value account) from your bank account. Once the funds have deposited...

Go to GDAX.com (owned by and linked to Coinbase)--deposit your USD to GDAX.

Purchase BTC, Ethereum, or Litecoin on GDAX (they have much lower fees than Coinbase).

Transfer some of your chosen coin to Binance (you need to sign up for a Binance account at binance.com).

Litecoin will transfer fastest. BTC and Ethereum take longer (up to 24 hours if you are doing a small transaction). But more likely it will take less than 30 minutes.

Once on Binance, use your BTC, Ether, or Litecoin to buy some smaller coins (XRP, ADA, TRX, etc).

Now is a good time to buy.

This is the little I have learned over the past year or so.

Feel free to PM me w any questions. All the best.

this is pretty good advice.

if anyone has been on the fence now is as good as a time to enter as any.

Agreed. Glad I didn't panic sell, I think I am going to transfer my wallet to binance, and diversify into some smaller coins. Right now I'm 100% in ETH and got greedy after it hit it's ATH. Live and learn. Does Binance have a mobile app?

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#106 straightshot7

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:53 PM

View Postmoegolfer11, on 17 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostHoosierMizuno, on 17 January 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.

They have fundamental advantages over physical, one nation based currencies such as seamless International transactions, immediate settlement, lower fees, decentralization, reduced fraud, and universal access for anyone with the Internet. Not to mention blockchain technology.

That's why you see AMEX and Moneygram doing deals with Ripple.

And IBM working with Stellar.

Cryptocurrency is the advant of a new industry. The question is not if it will be bigger 10 years from now--the question is what companies and coins will emerge as the market leaders.

My personal recommendation is to buy the top 10 coins by market cap and throw in a couple great smaller ones like Tron and Verge (you can do your own research to decide what team, plan, and product you like best).

Only put in an amount of money you are comfortable losing, since there will be wild swings and you don't want to be sweating and stressing. Think long term. Plan to hold for years.

Sign up to Coinbase to buy crypto using USD (it's not like your USD is the best investment anyway).

Use your debit card for instant purchase of BTC or Ethereum or Litecoin. BUT you will be hit with around 4% fees.

If you don't mind waiting 5 business days, link up your bank account to Coinbase.

This is how you avoid fees:

Deposit funds to your Coinbase USD Wallet (they call it stored value account) from your bank account. Once the funds have deposited...

Go to GDAX.com (owned by and linked to Coinbase)--deposit your USD to GDAX.

Purchase BTC, Ethereum, or Litecoin on GDAX (they have much lower fees than Coinbase).

Transfer some of your chosen coin to Binance (you need to sign up for a Binance account at binance.com).

Litecoin will transfer fastest. BTC and Ethereum take longer (up to 24 hours if you are doing a small transaction). But more likely it will take less than 30 minutes.

Once on Binance, use your BTC, Ether, or Litecoin to buy some smaller coins (XRP, ADA, TRX, etc).

Now is a good time to buy.

This is the little I have learned over the past year or so.

Feel free to PM me w any questions. All the best.

this is pretty good advice.

if anyone has been on the fence now is as good as a time to enter as any.

Agreed. Glad I didn't panic sell, I think I am going to transfer my wallet to binance, and diversify into some smaller coins. Right now I'm 100% in ETH and got greedy after it hit it's ATH. Live and learn. Does Binance have a mobile app?

Yes Binance has a mobile app. I don't really use it--prefer to use Desktop computer but I'm sure it's pretty good. They are the largest of the ALT coin exchanges out there and it works well. They did cut off membership recently but I think it was re-enabled. Not sure if you're already a member.

I prefer to keep my BTC, ETH, LTC, and BCH in Coinbase since I figure it is a bit more trustworthy in case something goes crazy (based in San Fran, big investors, insured, etc.)

I only transfer over to Binance what I intend to use on buying the Alt coins.

Highly recommend transferring from GDAX to Binance, again.

And I think you are definitely smart to diversify from just Ethereum - - though most believe it has a bright future.

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#107 raynorfan1

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:32 PM

Every coin on the market today will be worthless in 5 years.

But it will be fun gambling between now and then.

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#108 bscinstnct

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:06 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Every coin on the market today will be worthless in 5 years.

But it will be fun gambling between now and then.

I wouldn't say that. The value of an asset is derived from one thing

People want it.Or they don't.

Bitcoin is a legitimate store of value and utility as currency. It has a deep following around the globe of users who trust it. It's hard to predict what will drive price. Fear and greed of traders? A geopolitical event? The evolution of digital assets into the mainstream with Bitcoin (or others) holding the greatest faith as the asset of choice.

Personally, since I am unable to understand it, I won't buy it. But I can see how some would buy it in the context of an overall asset allocation.

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#109 raynorfan1

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:14 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 17 January 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Every coin on the market today will be worthless in 5 years.

But it will be fun gambling between now and then.

I wouldn't say that. The value of an asset is derived from one thing

People want it.Or they don't.

Yup. And five years from now, ain't nobody gonna want it.

View Postbscinstnct, on 17 January 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

Bitcoin is a legitimate store of value and utility as currency. It has a deep following around the globe of users who trust it. It's hard to predict what will drive price. Fear and greed of traders? A geopolitical event? The evolution of digital assets into the mainstream with Bitcoin (or others) holding the greatest faith as the asset of choice.

IMHO the implementation of cryptocurrencies has fallen somewhat short of their promise. Bitcoin is not useful as a medium of exchange (utility as a currency) because - as of right now - transaction fees are ridiculously high (compared to traditional currencies) and it's "value" as an "investment" makes it too dear for its owners to part with.

Where the crypto world is going to be rocked is if a government (say Saudi Arabia, Russia, or Venezuela) builds a coin that is explicitly backed by a real asset like oil, and dictates that all payments for their oil are to be made in PutinCoin with very low transaction cost.

I love the underlying technology - my company is replatforming our ledgers into a blockchain environment - but the euphoria around the "coin" world right now is absurd.

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#110 chickenpotpie

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

Most, probably 95+% of the coins or tokens out there will be worthless in 5 years.  But some will retain some, all, or more value.  Which ones?  Who knows, but there's a good chance many in here are holding several losers (hoping you might also have a winner).

My approach has been to basically only spend what I'd spend on a golf club in a month.  In 5 years, those clubs will be worth 5% of what they are now.  But with crypto you have a chance (albeit small) of finding something that might appreciate.

I think Bitcoin as a whole probably won't be a long term winner as most think.  It's really only useful for buying other cryptos.  Once that issue is fixed, I see it being replaced by something more efficient.

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#111 straightshot7

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 17 January 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Every coin on the market today will be worthless in 5 years.

But it will be fun gambling between now and then.

I wouldn't say that. The value of an asset is derived from one thing

People want it.Or they don't.

Yup. And five years from now, ain't nobody gonna want it.

View Postbscinstnct, on 17 January 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

Bitcoin is a legitimate store of value and utility as currency. It has a deep following around the globe of users who trust it. It's hard to predict what will drive price. Fear and greed of traders? A geopolitical event? The evolution of digital assets into the mainstream with Bitcoin (or others) holding the greatest faith as the asset of choice.

IMHO the implementation of cryptocurrencies has fallen somewhat short of their promise. Bitcoin is not useful as a medium of exchange (utility as a currency) because - as of right now - transaction fees are ridiculously high (compared to traditional currencies) and it's "value" as an "investment" makes it too dear for its owners to part with.

Where the crypto world is going to be rocked is if a government (say Saudi Arabia, Russia, or Venezuela) builds a coin that is explicitly backed by a real asset like oil, and dictates that all payments for their oil are to be made in PutinCoin with very low transaction cost.

I love the underlying technology - my company is replatforming our ledgers into a blockchain environment - but the euphoria around the "coin" world right now is absurd.

From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%


Conclusions to draw for the future:

1. The cryptocurrency industry will continue to grow at a similar pace and destroy every other decently sized asset class again
2. Cryptocurrency industry will level out and gains will be comparable to the stock market
3. Cryptocurrencies will depreciate and lose up to 20% in value
4. Cryptocurrencies are a total bubble and it will pop and go to 0

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.

And, the same conditions that caused that growth (greed, fear of missing out, underlying value, the power of the internet, distrust of government, etc.) still exist---we are only at a 5-10% adoption rate on cryptocurrencies.

And the idea that a government will build a coin--fine, but I don't see a ton of people jumping on it since one of the core values of cryptocurrencies is to be de-centrilized and free of government control.

If you love the underlying technology, why wouldn't you want to invest in the pioneers who invented it and are on the front lines?

That's why IBM is working with Stellar---otherwise, why wouldn't IBM just do it themselves? Same with Moneygram and Ripple.

The "coins" are not just "coins"--there are underlying teams, plans, investors, products, partnerships and applications.


edit: Countries could trade with other countries in coins they invent or like you said Force people to use certain coins and make others illegal--that's probably the greatest threat to cryptocurrencies. But that would be rather unAmerican. Of course we see China trying to ban crypto. But I think ultimately countries and govts. will find a way to work with it.

Edited by straightshot7, 17 January 2018 - 05:55 PM.


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#112 dcmidnight

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:12 PM

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%

...

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.


And yet a lot of people would like to do just that.  On the other hand, crypto investors cant expect the kinds of returns we've been seeing going forward.

I got out of XRP on the way down but got back in near the recent bottom. I could have cashed out and just called it a really, really good run - but I'm not in crypto to make 15-20% on my money. Or even 100%. And I dont think many other people are either. Are you going to get a lot of runs like XRP going from $.40 to $3.50 in a short period of time? I doubt it. But you certainly could hit something that goes from say $.05 to $.25 or $.50 - thats not out of the realm of possibility. And you could certainly add to your holdings if you're buying/selling on the dips.

Its another reason I'm a proponent of diversifying in a lot of smaller coins. Crypto as a whole is a gamble - but all you need to hit is one.

The one thing I hate is these ignorant blowhards on TV who say they would never recommend any client get into any crypto at all. Thats just stupid. If you're a financial advisor, every one of your clients has a particular risk profile, made up of a lot of different criteria - age, years to retirement, risk aversion etc. If you have a 25 year old client who has 40+ years to retirement and wants to put a chunk of their investment into a really risky investment, sorry but you'd be an idiot not to recommend crypto as an *option*.
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#113 straightshot7

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:29 PM

View Postdcmidnight, on 17 January 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%

...

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.


And yet a lot of people would like to do just that.  On the other hand, crypto investors cant expect the kinds of returns we've been seeing going forward.

I got out of XRP on the way down but got back in near the recent bottom. I could have cashed out and just called it a really, really good run - but I'm not in crypto to make 15-20% on my money. Or even 100%. And I dont think many other people are either. Are you going to get a lot of runs like XRP going from $.40 to $3.50 in a short period of time? I doubt it. But you certainly could hit something that goes from say $.05 to $.25 or $.50 - thats not out of the realm of possibility. And you could certainly add to your holdings if you're buying/selling on the dips.

Its another reason I'm a proponent of diversifying in a lot of smaller coins. Crypto as a whole is a gamble - but all you need to hit is one.

The one thing I hate is these ignorant blowhards on TV who say they would never recommend any client get into any crypto at all. Thats just stupid. If you're a financial advisor, every one of your clients has a particular risk profile, made up of a lot of different criteria - age, years to retirement, risk aversion etc. If you have a 25 year old client who has 40+ years to retirement and wants to put a chunk of their investment into a really risky investment, sorry but you'd be an idiot not to recommend crypto as an *option*.

Agreed, but how many financial advisors are equipped to profit by putting their clients in crypto?

Once the Edward Joneses of the world add crypto to their product list, watch the "advisors" suddenly change their tune on cryptocurrencies.

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#114 raynorfan1

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:52 PM

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

View Postdcmidnight, on 17 January 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%

...

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.


And yet a lot of people would like to do just that.  On the other hand, crypto investors cant expect the kinds of returns we've been seeing going forward.

I got out of XRP on the way down but got back in near the recent bottom. I could have cashed out and just called it a really, really good run - but I'm not in crypto to make 15-20% on my money. Or even 100%. And I dont think many other people are either. Are you going to get a lot of runs like XRP going from $.40 to $3.50 in a short period of time? I doubt it. But you certainly could hit something that goes from say $.05 to $.25 or $.50 - thats not out of the realm of possibility. And you could certainly add to your holdings if you're buying/selling on the dips.

Its another reason I'm a proponent of diversifying in a lot of smaller coins. Crypto as a whole is a gamble - but all you need to hit is one.

The one thing I hate is these ignorant blowhards on TV who say they would never recommend any client get into any crypto at all. Thats just stupid. If you're a financial advisor, every one of your clients has a particular risk profile, made up of a lot of different criteria - age, years to retirement, risk aversion etc. If you have a 25 year old client who has 40+ years to retirement and wants to put a chunk of their investment into a really risky investment, sorry but you'd be an idiot not to recommend crypto as an *option*.

Agreed, but how many financial advisors are equipped to profit by putting their clients in crypto?

Once the Edward Joneses of the world add crypto to their product list, watch the "advisors" suddenly change their tune on cryptocurrencies.

Is it really hard for you to understand why a licensed advisor would not (/could not) recommend an unregistered security offering?

There’s probably no jail time in it - just disgorgement of profits and an industry ban.

24

#115 straightshot7

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:10 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

View Postdcmidnight, on 17 January 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%

...

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.


And yet a lot of people would like to do just that.  On the other hand, crypto investors cant expect the kinds of returns we've been seeing going forward.

I got out of XRP on the way down but got back in near the recent bottom. I could have cashed out and just called it a really, really good run - but I'm not in crypto to make 15-20% on my money. Or even 100%. And I dont think many other people are either. Are you going to get a lot of runs like XRP going from $.40 to $3.50 in a short period of time? I doubt it. But you certainly could hit something that goes from say $.05 to $.25 or $.50 - thats not out of the realm of possibility. And you could certainly add to your holdings if you're buying/selling on the dips.

Its another reason I'm a proponent of diversifying in a lot of smaller coins. Crypto as a whole is a gamble - but all you need to hit is one.

The one thing I hate is these ignorant blowhards on TV who say they would never recommend any client get into any crypto at all. Thats just stupid. If you're a financial advisor, every one of your clients has a particular risk profile, made up of a lot of different criteria - age, years to retirement, risk aversion etc. If you have a 25 year old client who has 40+ years to retirement and wants to put a chunk of their investment into a really risky investment, sorry but you'd be an idiot not to recommend crypto as an *option*.

Agreed, but how many financial advisors are equipped to profit by putting their clients in crypto?

Once the Edward Joneses of the world add crypto to their product list, watch the "advisors" suddenly change their tune on cryptocurrencies.

Is it really hard for you to understand why a licensed advisor would not (/could not) recommend an unregistered security offering?

There's probably no jail time in it - just disgorgement of profits and an industry ban.

No it's not.

My point was that if it became registered (or took the form of a cryptocurrency related stock) and became accepted in the the advisory world where they could profit nicely off of it---they would change their tune.

I've now said that twice. Is it sinking in yet?

You literally just re-inforced my point---which was that the main reason the traditional advisory bashes cryptocurrencies is because they cannot sell them.

Edited by straightshot7, 17 January 2018 - 08:12 PM.


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#116 raynorfan1

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 08:56 AM

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 17 January 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

Is it really hard for you to understand why a licensed advisor would not (/could not) recommend an unregistered security offering?

There's probably no jail time in it - just disgorgement of profits and an industry ban.

No it's not.

My point was that if it became registered (or took the form of a cryptocurrency related stock) and became accepted in the the advisory world where they could profit nicely off of it---they would change their tune.

I've now said that twice. Is it sinking in yet?

You literally just re-inforced my point---which was that the main reason the traditional advisory bashes cryptocurrencies is because they cannot sell them.


I guess I misunderstood your post. I took you to say "if those moron brokers could figure this stuff out, they'd be in on the game!" but the reality is, even if they wanted to right now, they legally can't advise clients to buy crypto currencies or invest in ICOs.

I totally agree that if they were legitimate securities, every brokerage from here to Tokyo would be slinging them as hard as they could. They'd be pushing these things like it was webvan or Pets.com. No doubt in my mind.

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#117 raynorfan1

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 09:16 AM

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:


From a purely numbers/investment standpoint, consider this:

In 2017, by all accounts the U.S. Stock Market had a great year.

Dow +25%
S&P 500 +19%

Nasdaq +28%

Compare that to if you had bought the 10 largest cryptocurrencies (https://www.mineweb....tocurrency-list)...

Average Gain: +2,368%

Absolutely no denying that as an "asset" class, the crypto currencies have done well, albeit off a very small base. The total market cap (in the article you linked) is $161B (which I think is before the market went nuts). That's a TINY asset class. The 30 companies of the Dow Jones represent (at FYE 2017) $6,873B in value. The Dow Components added $1,142B in value in 2017 - roughly ten times the total return of the entire crypto asset class.

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

1. The cryptocurrency industry will continue to grow at a similar pace and destroy every other decently sized asset class again
2. Cryptocurrency industry will level out and gains will be comparable to the stock market
3. Cryptocurrencies will depreciate and lose up to 20% in value
4. Cryptocurrencies are a total bubble and it will pop and go to 0

You can't deny that at least in the past 5 years, cryptocurrencies have destroyed every other asset class. You can't just pretend that didn't happen.

In terms of total returns to investors, crypto currencies have been a non factor. They've "created" - out of thin air - $160B of value. Which has been cool for a very small number of people who have gotten really rich on paper in virtual "wallets". There is no scenario where a crypto currency can sustainably generate equity returns. The problem is that all of the value that crypto currencies promise (as a medium of exchange, where they could be awesome) virtually requires that they have very low investment returns. There's a reason that when I go to the bodega, I pay in dollars and not shares in IBM. The catch-22 of crypto currencies is that to be a good investment, you'd have to be a good currency. But if you're a good currency, almost by definition, you're not a good investment.

View Poststraightshot7, on 17 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

If you love the underlying technology, why wouldn't you want to invest in the pioneers who invented it and are on the front lines?

That's why IBM is working with Stellar---otherwise, why wouldn't IBM just do it themselves? Same with Moneygram and Ripple.

The "coins" are not just "coins"--there are underlying teams, plans, investors, products, partnerships and applications.

This is deja vu all over again for those of us who lived through 1996 - 2000. At the end of the day, the service has to create value. Blockchain (and it's associated technologies) will create tremendous value in the world. I find it unlikely that the value will be in a "currency" type instrument.

But as I said, it will be fun to gamble on over the next couple of years. The .Com boom was nothing if not fun. Let's do it again!

27

#118 moegolfer11

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 10:43 AM

off topic but thought this was insightful: https://www.reddit.c...market_and_how/
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#119 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:07 AM

  • current crypto market cap nearer 600 Bln and thats down from a high early jan 18 of 825 Bln.
  • even if you think the market is destined to pop, as i said before, if you take profits along the way you can make a lot of money in the meantime.
  • all the naysayers want to talk about this weeks crash. we went down to levels not seen since..... nov of 2017....which was still a 900% return from jan 2017
right now there is a ton of speculation. no one knows for sure what will happen in 1, 5, or 10 years. I will predict there will be many many more days like yesterday. I think we've got a long way to go and its a gamble getting in early. yes i still consider it early in 2018. I also predict there will be many many more than 2 or 3 winners on the current crypto list. as another said, these 'coins' have large development teams behind them, with minds that come from some of the leading businesses around the world. yes there are plenty of sh*tcoins, but these technologies behind the coins will do anything from becoming something as simple as a rewards/payment system within social media (REDD coin) to virtual reality and artificial intelligence to technologies that are beyond my comprehension. I'm not a believer in the theory that you have to know exactly what the tech is to make it worth your investment. as another pointed out, i didn't get in this to try to double my money and jump out. if i did i would've been out long ago and lost out on a lot of money. i got in because i'm willing to take a sizeable risk because the potential returns if crypto becomes a way of life in 10 years is astronomical, and i find it interesting and fun.


to all those predicting that the crypto world is one giant bubble you might be right. but many people could argue the same about the USD. And if it popped tomorrow i'd come out ahead.....but if you're wrong and its here to stay and becomes the future of digital currency, money transfer, blockchain, etc....it wouldn't be the first time someone predicted something to fail and later was proven wildly wrong

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Edited by HoosierMizuno, 18 January 2018 - 11:21 AM.

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#120 bscinstnct

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:21 PM

https://www.google.c...tcoin-bash/amp/

Cryptocurrency founders mingle with celebs at Bitcoin bash


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