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Right Elbow Tucked vs. Getting Stuck


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#1 Pomps

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?

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#2 augustgolf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:06 PM

I've found over the years that as my path became more inside to outside that the faster I could move my lower body through the shot, the more the club path got back on line.

We've known for years that spinning the hips too quickly (spinning out) tends to make the ball go right, as the club face doesn't seem to have enough time to square up.

This is just a suggestion that has worked for me, a person who played a natural fade for years, and after a motorcycle accident, found my ball flight suddenly right-to-left.

I'm sure that there will be many more suggestions, just providing you with my own personal experience and the how/what/why of it.

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#3 oscar@wrx

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?
"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#4 Pomps

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 10:09 PM

View Postoscar@wrx, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?

From all of my lessons, getting stuck for me is the hands dropping down to the hip and coming very much from the inside and either flipping to save it and hitting a hook or it's left out. 2016 was much better. I even went to my indoor studio tonight and my path with the driver averaged only 1* in to out, so things are much improved. It used to be 3-5*. I guess I'm just cautious that if I try to keep the elbow tucked, it may cause me to go back to getting stuck.
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#5 oscar@wrx

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 11:52 PM

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

View Postoscar@wrx, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?

From all of my lessons, getting stuck for me is the hands dropping down to the hip and coming very much from the inside and either flipping to save it and hitting a hook or it's left out. 2016 was much better. I even went to my indoor studio tonight and my path with the driver averaged only 1* in to out, so things are much improved. It used to be 3-5*. I guess I'm just cautious that if I try to keep the elbow tucked, it may cause me to go back to getting stuck.
That kind of stuck is due to the arc being too curved and clubface rate of closure too fast (with all other things equal). So the ideal plane for that is one farther from the body and more vertical, which means you steepen the plane so that the clubhead arc or path would be less inside to out. For these folks, hands has to be farther from the body or hips with club still cocked. If they get hands closer, club has to uncock early to reach the ball and not whiff it. If they uncock early, clubface rolls too much too early, thereby necessitating hands to control clubface from closing too soon. If they maintain the c0ck, they have to use the hands too to reach the ball.

Some people like Hogan have a wider arc and slower rate of clubface closure with all other things equal. So their ideal plane is one closer to the body and lower. So for these folks, they can get the hands closer to the body and at same time keep the club cocked. So even if they don't uncock club too soon (naturally kept the c0ck or lag), they don't have to use the hands to keep face from closing too early or reach the ball. They could just rotate or pivot hard and even use the right side

"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#6 moehogan

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:24 AM

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

View Postoscar@wrx, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?

From all of my lessons, getting stuck for me is the hands dropping down to the hip and coming very much from the inside and either flipping to save it and hitting a hook or it's left out. 2016 was much better. I even went to my indoor studio tonight and my path with the driver averaged only 1* in to out, so things are much improved. It used to be 3-5*. I guess I'm just cautious that if I try to keep the elbow tucked, it may cause me to go back to getting stuck.
In transition, rotate your entire right arm clockwise ... that move will give your hands the "OUT" that it sounds like they're missing and better right arm travel.

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#7 Pomps

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 03:38 PM

View Postmoehogan, on 26 January 2017 - 12:24 AM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

View Postoscar@wrx, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?

From all of my lessons, getting stuck for me is the hands dropping down to the hip and coming very much from the inside and either flipping to save it and hitting a hook or it's left out. 2016 was much better. I even went to my indoor studio tonight and my path with the driver averaged only 1* in to out, so things are much improved. It used to be 3-5*. I guess I'm just cautious that if I try to keep the elbow tucked, it may cause me to go back to getting stuck.
In transition, rotate your entire right arm clockwise ... that move will give your hands the "OUT" that it sounds like they're missing and better right arm travel.

Interesting suggestion. I can see after a few practice swings, your elbows still stay close but it does drive your hands more out than down, something I worked on a lot last year.
TaylorMade 2016 Tour Issue M2 9.8* - Kuro Kage Dual Core XT 70TX - 44.5" (D5)
Titleist 915f 15* - Diamana D+ 80x (D6)
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Titleist 718 AP2 4-p - Project x6.5 3* Flat (D5)
Vokey SM6 51* (D5); Vokey TVD V-Grind 55* (D5) & Vokey TVD M-Grind 59*  (D5) - DG Tour Issue s400; 51* 2.5* flat, 55* 2.5* flat; 59* is 2* flat

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#8 oscar@wrx

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:18 PM

View PostPomps, on 26 January 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

View Postmoehogan, on 26 January 2017 - 12:24 AM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

View Postoscar@wrx, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPomps, on 25 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I've battled a draw hook my entire life. After getting on a monitor and video at my lessons, we determined that I was coming too far from the inside and getting stuck. I worked last year to mitigate this and now path is much less in-out and I can even hit a little fade. However, I have also been reading a lot about keeping the elbows in and tucked. I can't help but think this could lead to me being stuck again. Any insight on how a player can tuck the right elbow yet not get stuck?
Getting atuck has different meanings for different people, and some just throw it away to discourage a right elbow more beside the right hip, which is not necessarily incorrect.

So what do you mean when you say you get stuck?

From all of my lessons, getting stuck for me is the hands dropping down to the hip and coming very much from the inside and either flipping to save it and hitting a hook or it's left out. 2016 was much better. I even went to my indoor studio tonight and my path with the driver averaged only 1* in to out, so things are much improved. It used to be 3-5*. I guess I'm just cautious that if I try to keep the elbow tucked, it may cause me to go back to getting stuck.
In transition, rotate your entire right arm clockwise ... that move will give your hands the "OUT" that it sounds like they're missing and better right arm travel.

Interesting suggestion. I can see after a few practice swings, your elbows still stay close but it does drive your hands more out than down, something I worked on a lot last year.

That will naturally happen. All you have to do is keep the right wrist bent back. This way you free up your mind to focus on other things
"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#9 oscar@wrx

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:21 PM

If you have to do it, it's because your not bending back your right wrist to the fullest or you're shaft is not vertical enough in backswing. Just my opinion
"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#10 Millbrook

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:42 AM

If the right elbow does not move beyond the right hip until after impact then you will have to rotate to hit the ball and you will not get stuck providing the right elbow did not get behind you in the backswing.

All comments are made from the point of
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#11 gsea33

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:44 PM

your a 4 cap swing is solid enough. two words .... short game

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#12 oscar@wrx

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:40 AM

View Postgsea33, on 14 February 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

your a 4 cap swing is solid enough. two words .... short game
Hogan is coming really from the inside but he isn't hooking.

One thing I think that can be immediately applied by anyone battling hooks is left side extension that will allow one to turn shoulders vertically
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#13 Switter

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:20 PM

Hogan never got stuck for three reasons: #1. His closed stance; #2. His trailing right arm only operated up & down; #3. He never allowed his club head to travel beyond the imaginary wall in his bs.  

The combination of these three moves prevented him from getting stuck propelling the club head dtl via a right hand throw. The right hand throw is the reason he fought the hook.

"Ben Hogan fought his hook more by curling his left wrist after impact" by Johnny Miller

http://www.golf.com/...fought-his-hook
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#14 AlexCzervic

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:48 PM

View PostSwitter, on 27 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Hogan never got stuck for three reasons: #1. His closed stance; #2. His trailing right arm only operated up & down; #3. He never allowed his club head to travel beyond the imaginary wall in his bs.  

The combination of these three moves prevented him from getting stuck propelling the club head dtl via a right hand throw. The right hand throw is the reason he fought the hook.

"Ben Hogan fought his hook more by curling his left wrist after impact" by Johnny Miller

http://www.golf.com/...fought-his-hook

Johnny Miller was a talented golfer...................THE END

AC

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#15 oscar@wrx

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:47 PM

View PostAlexCzervic, on 31 March 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

View PostSwitter, on 27 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Hogan never got stuck for three reasons: #1. His closed stance; #2. His trailing right arm only operated up & down; #3. He never allowed his club head to travel beyond the imaginary wall in his bs.  

The combination of these three moves prevented him from getting stuck propelling the club head dtl via a right hand throw. The right hand throw is the reason he fought the hook.

"Ben Hogan fought his hook more by curling his left wrist after impact" by Johnny Miller

http://www.golf.com/...fought-his-hook

Johnny Miller was a talented golfer...................THE END

AC
His mechanics are worth studying though. Talented just means being able to do something correctly without knowing what he's doing. They're still doing it correctly though.

One thing that makes Miller's swing tick is his left side extension and very steep shoulder turn. That will always get the clubhead traveling through impact on a straighter and shallower path.

Too bad that kind of swing was virtually destroyed reputation-wise by bad backs

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#16 rustyhobo

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:41 AM

Dont let the hands go straight down from transition. Right shoulder stays high and hands go out after transition.

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#17 rustyhobo

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:49 AM

This me

http://m.imgur.com/LbSqknB

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#18 gsea33

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:33 PM

Words to live by "Hogan never got stuck for three reasons: #1. His closed stance; #2. His trailing right arm only operated up & down; #3. He never allowed his club head to travel beyond the imaginary wall in his bs.  " A heavy club helps also.

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#19 oscar@wrx

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:13 AM

IMO, the reason he never got stuck is his forward ball position and his terrific extension of the left side of his body
"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#20 JD3

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:28 AM

View PostSwitter, on 27 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Hogan never got stuck for three reasons: #1. His closed stance; #2. His trailing right arm only operated up & down; #3. He never allowed his club head to travel beyond the imaginary wall in his bs.  

The combination of these three moves prevented him from getting stuck propelling the club head dtl via a right hand throw. The right hand throw is the reason he fought the hook.

"Ben Hogan fought his hook more by curling his left wrist after impact" by Johnny Miller

http://www.golf.com/...fought-his-hook
Great article thanks. I've been working on this exact same thing lately. I picked it up from the release leadbetter described in his A swing.

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#21 Petter Player

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:11 AM

If your turn is early, the hands will drop too far back. Push from the ground should start after the hands and club are in the slot. Extending the legs early will suck off the hand path space underneath your shoulders.

Anything earlier will get you stucked and flipping the clubhead/rushing the hands to impact or miss everything to your right.

The above explaination is getting stucked, elbow tucked is a metaphor not to extend the lower hand prior to impact and push it away from the body.

Edited by Petter Player, 03 January 2018 - 05:13 AM.


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