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Club champion fitting


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#121 Popeye64

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:53 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 12 January 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

View PostPureStrikes54, on 12 January 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

View PostRichieHunt, on 12 January 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

I went there for a fitting about 2 years ago.  Their fitting process is really no different from any of the other high end fitting joints like Hot Stix, Cool Clubs, FuZion Golf (now defunct), etc.  I don't mean that in a bad way because I think there is good value in these places.

Be prepared for this to be a little more strenuous of an exercise than you would think.  They do a great job of making it easy for you, but it's a lot of balls to hit and that can be exhausting for some.  

You'll get on Trackman and hit balls into a net (unless this is an outdoor facility).  The biggest positive about the experience is that they have tons of combinations to choose from so you can be fitted for pretty much the ideal combination.  That's what the local golf shops don't have...the different combinations of heads and shafts to find the optimal fit.  You may get a better fit than your current setup from a local shop, but because they have more combinations at Club Champion than most places, you're more likely to find an optimal fit.  

Don't expect to hit every combination.  They'll have good knowledge of looking at your Trackman data of where you need to go to optimize your performance and have a good idea of what club head and shafts would help you get where you want to go.

Expect to have some sticker shock when they try to sell you the clubs.  They basically charge everything 'ala carte.'  So, if you are fitted for a $399.99 driver with a $399 aftermarket shaft and a $10 grip, the charges for the club alone will be $810.  Then they'll charge for labor, so you're looking at close to $900 for a driver.   They usually take the charge of the fitting off if you purchase from them.

The better method IMO is to get fitted and then learn how to disassemble and assemble equipment yourself.  If you're looking to save the most money possible, you can find a head and the shaft on eBay or here on the classifieds for much less and then assemble it yourself.  That may cost you 1/4 the price of what Club Champion offers.

The only thing I don't like about these high end fitting spots is that none of them fit for MOI matching.  Thankfully I know how to do that and have an MOI Auditor machine.  I really think these places are missing out and could better justify their costs and create a better perceived value from their customers.







RH

Very informative.

Richie what kind of dispersion tightening have you seen with the moi matched clubs?

I've seen massive improvement.  I'm a +2 that sometimes plays into a +3, so I didn't need a ton of help.  For me MOI matching really helped with the long irons more than anything.  It also helped with the shorter irons, but shorter irons are easier to hit to begin with...you just don't notice it until you actually check your impact dispersion.

It really helps out with those trouble clubs in your set that you just don't hit well for some reason.  What I've found is that those clubs almost always stray far from your fitted MOI.  For instance, you can have two 6-irons...same make, model, shaft and grip and the same length, loft, etc and with the same swingweight.

But, one 6-iron head can weigh 258 grams and the other 262 grams.  One shaft can weight 123 grams and the other could weigh 126 grams.  And the Center of Mass of the heads and the shafts could be in different locations.  It's all because every OEM has tolerances and no OEM can produce the same exact club and shaft with the same exact properties.  And you may have accidentally cut the shaft 1/16" too short.  That all adds up.  And in the end, you can have 2 clubs that seem the same to the naked eye, but have vastly different MOI measurements and you will react differently to them when you swing them.

The other thing I've seen is trajectory change.  When I was first learning MOI matching years ago, I learned how to fit for MOI and I took an old Wishon driver that was very light.  I never used it because I hit the ball extremely low with that driver.  I was just trying to find what my optimal MOI would be by seeing the difference in impact dispersion.  As I added more weight to the head the ball flight got higher and higher to the point where it was perfectly where I wanted the trajectory and was optimizing launch and spin on FlightScope.  It was really neat to see this (I had no idea that this would happen).

Here's a video discussing it along with a case study of a golfer going from swingweight to MOI matching.

For the average golfer, they would be wise to learn how to assemble clubs if they are going to places like Club Champion because the pricing at Club Champion is a bit ridiculous and it's not that difficult to get fit, take their suggestions and do it yourself and save money.  But with MOI fitting, now you really need the MOI Auditor Machine to get it right...but more importantly, it's a superior way to fit clubs and increase customer satisfaction.

https://www.youtube....h?v=qFBMk5Y9A_s






RH
Great video....


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#122 jcolton

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 04:03 PM

Here's my experience at my local Club Champion here in Los Angeles, which might help people on decide whether or not they should get fitted. My biggest question was should I go get an "official" fitting, or should I go to my local Roger Dunn and hit different combinations until I find something I like.

First I went for my irons. Being somewhat new, I wasn't very educated at the time in everything involved in a fitting, so naturally I was interested in learning and asked a lot of questions. I simply wanted to know what I was hitting and why, but my fitter acted like he didn't want to tell me anything because it makes people change their swing, which I also understand but still I’m paying for a fitting and I was just as interested in learning as I was finding the right irons.  I left satisfied with irons we chose, but as others have said, their price was much higher than everywhere else so I ordered directly through the manufacturer.

Just last week I decided It was time to upgrade my driver. I go in for the appointment and the first thing I tell him is I am not looking to spend $1000 on a driver, I'm just a weekend golfer and I can't justify spending that kind of money on one club and I simply want the peace of mind that the driver I use is the best option in my price range for me and my swing. He then gets a little attitude with me and tells me that they don't carry stock option shafts and only offer premium shafts. We go back and forth for a minute because I don't want to waste either of our time if he feels fitting me with that they have is pointless. He says he will even waive the cancelation fee because he cannot fit me to something that I can get from the manufacturer in my price range (which I told him was $500-$700). I decide to continue with the fitting and he said he would try to fit me into something that best resembled something in my price range, but it would not be the exact same club. I took a few swings with two different shafts, then rotated 4 different heads for 45 minutes until we found one that I hit the most consistent, again with not much explanation or dialogue between us, which was a bummer to me.

I wasn't very pleased with my driver fitting, but maybe that's more about me not understanding what level of golfer club champion caters to. I was under the impression that with so many head options and companies offering a variety of shafts, that there was still a lot to be fitted for in a driver, even for people like myself that don't want to spend $800+ on tour level shafts. I think there is a big market for people like me that can't justify spending the cost of tour level shafts, but still want to get fit for the best available stock option since there are so many different head and shaft options available through the 6+ different manufacturers. But unfortunately, the way it was explained to me is that they don't have any stock option driver shafts available to hit.

That being said, their customer service is top notch and they will go out of the way to make sure you're satisfied with your fitting.

Edited by jcolton, 07 February 2019 - 12:48 PM.


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#123 DeeBee30

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, I've already found quite a few Evo II pulls online.  I'm thinking about getting one, along with a Titleist SureFit adapter, so I can try it in my 913D3.  Step 2 would then be to buy a TM M5 head and get the TM adapter.  Might need to step up my club building game this year (and by that I mean develop a club building game).

Edited by DeeBee30, 06 February 2019 - 04:36 PM.

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#124 Frakes

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:57 AM

I also recently completed a full bag fitting at Club Champion.  I have been fit for various items over the years for everything except the putter.  Overall a very good experience and can echo what others have said.  I was just ready for new irons/wedges and had never really done a putter fitting.  I play to a 3-5 index with a 6 iron swing speed in the low to mid 90s (at +1 inch over standard)

I had a similar experience as others.  We spent most of the time on the irons hitting different shafts, then working on the right head.  When I hit a few drivers with my gamer, the fitter just asked if there was anything I wanted to hit as he didn't feel like he could beat it.  I hit a few combos just for fun.  3 wood was similar.  I hit mine well off the tee, but have some challenges off the deck with it.  The biggest issue was the gap between my irons and the 3 wood.  I have a 790 UDI with the Hzrdus black shaft that was good off the tee but not great off the deck.  We played around with different combos and found the Atmos Blue HB 8S was a much better fit.  I was launching it 2 degrees higher and was getting the gap I was looking for.  

We hit wedges, but I do struggle with fitting wedges in that environment so it is what it is.  The putter fitting was good.  Found out that I was kind of in the middle of a couple options (blade/mallet) with low to medium toe hang.  Adjusted the loft with my current putter.  

My biggest surprise was the actual charges that were articulated by a previous poster.  I thought they may have component contracts with the companies, therefore, they could give you the total club for something less than retail + reshaft if they are buying the heads separately.  I am all for someone making money but that was a bit more than I was willing to spend.  I do say that it saved me from buying the Miura 501s as I just didn't hit them well.

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#125 KMeloney

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:48 PM

View Postjcolton, on 06 February 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

I wasn't very pleased with my driver fitting, but maybe that's more about me not understanding what level of golfer club champion caters to. I was under the impression that with so many head options and companies offering a variety of shafts, that there was still a lot to be fitted for in a driver, even for people like myself that don't want to spend $800+ on tour level shafts. I think there is a big market for people like me that can't justify spending the cost of tour level shafts, but still want to get fit for the best available stock option since there are so many different head and shaft options available through the 6+ different manufacturers. But unfortunately, the way it was explained to me is that they don't have any stock option driver shafts available to hit.

That market for "people like [you]" exists at the big box stores that have hitting bays.

CC is for everyone else who has some flexibility in his budget who wants to find the best price-performance ratio beyond the stock offerings (to say nothing of the folks who have no budget constraints).

I think it's really that simple.


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#126 carrera

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:45 PM

CC just got bought by a private equity firm, so my expectation is that that many more stores will be opened over the next 3+ years.
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#127 DeeBee30

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:29 PM

KMeloney, I think it's dismissive - and maybe a bit elitist - to insinuate that golfers who don't want to pay $800+ on tour-level shafts should be relegated to figuring it out through trial-and-error in a big-box store hitting bay.  While I'd concede that many of CC's happiest customers are probably those with higher budgets, there's an addressable market that's somewhere between them and the "off-the-shelf" buyers (and I'm confident CC wold agree).  

Many of us want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check. That may mean we opt for a lower cost shaft that provides a large percentage of the performance that the costlier one does.   The result might then be something like buying a $550 driver and installing a $350 shaft.  Although $900 is still a decent investment in a driver when compared to retail with stock shaft offerings, it leaves more room in the budget to address other parts of the bag, either today or somewhere down the line.
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#128 chrisf60526

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:48 PM

View Postjcolton, on 06 February 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Here's my experience at my local Club Champion here in Los Angeles, which might help people on decide whether or not they should get fitted. My biggest question was should I go get an "official" fitting, or should I go to my local Roger Dunn and hit different combinations until I find something I like.

First I went for my irons. Being somewhat new, I wasn't very educated at the time in everything involved in a fitting, so naturally I was interested in learning and asked a lot of questions. I simply wanted to know what I was hitting and why, but my fitter acted like he didn't want to tell me anything because it makes people change their swing, which I also understand but still I’m paying for a fitting and I was just as interested in learning as I was finding the right irons.  I left satisfied with irons we chose, but as others have said, their price was much higher than everywhere else so I ordered directly through the manufacturer.

Just last week I decided It was time to upgrade my driver. I go in for the appointment and the first thing I tell him is I am not looking to spend $1000 on a driver, I'm just a weekend golfer and I can't justify spending that kind of money on one club and I simply want the peace of mind that the driver I use is the best option in my price range for me and my swing. He then gets a little attitude with me and tells me that they don't carry stock option shafts and only offer premium shafts. We go back and forth for a minute because I don't want to waste either of our time if he feels fitting me with that they have is pointless. He says he will even waive the cancelation fee because he cannot fit me to something that I can get from the manufacturer in my price range (which I told him was $500-$700). I decide to continue with the fitting and he said he would try to fit me into something that best resembled something in my price range, but it would not be the exact same club. I took a few swings with two different shafts, then rotated 4 different heads for 45 minutes until we found one that I hit the most consistent, again with not much explanation or dialogue between us, which was a bummer to me.

I wasn't very pleased with my driver fitting, but maybe that's more about me not understanding what level of golfer club champion caters to. I was under the impression that with so many head options and companies offering a variety of shafts, that there was still a lot to be fitted for in a driver, even for people like myself that don't want to spend $800+ on tour level shafts. I think there is a big market for people like me that can't justify spending the cost of tour level shafts, but still want to get fit for the best available stock option since there are so many different head and shaft options available through the 6+ different manufacturers. But unfortunately, the way it was explained to me is that they don't have any stock option driver shafts available to hit.

That being said, their customer service is top notch and they will go out of the way to make sure you're satisfied with your fitting.

That was my experience a few years ago as well with CC.  I know that CC is a 'premium fitter' but i had nothing but issues with them and didnt feel it was worth it for me.  I did however find the putting fitting valuable.  

I had to follow up with them for my data and they flat out really didnt do anything that i thought was of value beside the putter fitting.  I had to call them multiple times to get the PDF of my fitting and they claimed that the computers were broken.

@KMeloney . I am sure that CC and their business model is not totally catering to what you describe above.  If all they targeted was "who has some flexibility in his budget who wants to find the best price-performance ratio beyond the stock offerings" they would not be in business for too long.

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#129 Krt22

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:05 PM

View Postchrisf60526, on 08 February 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

View Postjcolton, on 06 February 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Here's my experience at my local Club Champion here in Los Angeles, which might help people on decide whether or not they should get fitted. My biggest question was should I go get an "official" fitting, or should I go to my local Roger Dunn and hit different combinations until I find something I like.

First I went for my irons. Being somewhat new, I wasn't very educated at the time in everything involved in a fitting, so naturally I was interested in learning and asked a lot of questions. I simply wanted to know what I was hitting and why, but my fitter acted like he didn't want to tell me anything because it makes people change their swing, which I also understand but still I’m paying for a fitting and I was just as interested in learning as I was finding the right irons.  I left satisfied with irons we chose, but as others have said, their price was much higher than everywhere else so I ordered directly through the manufacturer.

Just last week I decided It was time to upgrade my driver. I go in for the appointment and the first thing I tell him is I am not looking to spend $1000 on a driver, I'm just a weekend golfer and I can't justify spending that kind of money on one club and I simply want the peace of mind that the driver I use is the best option in my price range for me and my swing. He then gets a little attitude with me and tells me that they don't carry stock option shafts and only offer premium shafts. We go back and forth for a minute because I don't want to waste either of our time if he feels fitting me with that they have is pointless. He says he will even waive the cancelation fee because he cannot fit me to something that I can get from the manufacturer in my price range (which I told him was $500-$700). I decide to continue with the fitting and he said he would try to fit me into something that best resembled something in my price range, but it would not be the exact same club. I took a few swings with two different shafts, then rotated 4 different heads for 45 minutes until we found one that I hit the most consistent, again with not much explanation or dialogue between us, which was a bummer to me.

I wasn't very pleased with my driver fitting, but maybe that's more about me not understanding what level of golfer club champion caters to. I was under the impression that with so many head options and companies offering a variety of shafts, that there was still a lot to be fitted for in a driver, even for people like myself that don't want to spend $800+ on tour level shafts. I think there is a big market for people like me that can't justify spending the cost of tour level shafts, but still want to get fit for the best available stock option since there are so many different head and shaft options available through the 6+ different manufacturers. But unfortunately, the way it was explained to me is that they don't have any stock option driver shafts available to hit.

That being said, their customer service is top notch and they will go out of the way to make sure you're satisfied with your fitting.

That was my experience a few years ago as well with CC.  I know that CC is a 'premium fitter' but i had nothing but issues with them and didnt feel it was worth it for me.  I did however find the putting fitting valuable.  

I had to follow up with them for my data and they flat out really didnt do anything that i thought was of value beside the putter fitting.  I had to call them multiple times to get the PDF of my fitting and they claimed that the computers were broken.

@KMeloney . I am sure that CC and their business model is not totally catering to what you describe above.  If all they targeted was "who has some flexibility in his budget who wants to find the best price-performance ratio beyond the stock offerings" they would not be in business for too long.

I think it's hard to cast a blanket on all of CC, as it seems like there is quite a bit of variance from location to location (or even fitter to fitter within the same location). I was quite pleased with my fitting. I told them about my game, about my clubs (ie I'm a club ho and built my entire bag), and my goal of the fitting. The fitting was a mix of me wanting to try things and them steering me in the general direction of where I needed to be, as well as a few recommendations from them that clearly just didn't work. My ultimate goal was to tighten up dispersion, tame the big miss, which for the longest time I thought was purely my swing. But the shafts/heads I was fit into definitely showed compelling change (at least on the LM). Full disclosure, their build price was a bit too much for me to swallow, but I did for the most part build the entire bag going by their recommendations. If their recommendations are a bit too steep, a diligent customer can find second hand options or even lower rung offerings that offer similar performance. The most important part is understanding how your swing reacts to the equipment and vice versa. I was a bit skeptical at first, but the proof was in the pudding.

I also benefited (perhaps the most) from the putter fitting. I would typically 3 putt 2-4 times a round. 4 days after the fitting I went out and had 0.  I got all of the Trackman and Samlab data promptly as well

YMMV

Edited by Krt22, 08 February 2019 - 04:06 PM.


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#130 KMeloney

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:41 PM

View PostDeeBee30, on 08 February 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

KMeloney, I think it's dismissive - and maybe a bit elitist - to insinuate that golfers who don't want to pay $800+ on tour-level shafts should be relegated to figuring it out through trial-and-error in a big-box store hitting bay.  While I'd concede that many of CC's happiest customers are probably those with higher budgets, there's an addressable market that's somewhere between them and the "off-the-shelf" buyers (and I'm confident CC wold agree).  

Many of us want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check. That may mean we opt for a lower cost shaft that provides a large percentage of the performance that the costlier one does.   The result might then be something like buying a $550 driver and installing a $350 shaft.  Although $900 is still a decent investment in a driver when compared to retail with stock shaft offerings, it leaves more room in the budget to address other parts of the bag, either today or somewhere down the line.

You've completely misread or misunderstood my post. Don't start with the "elitist" nonsense, because you're just way off base.

The poster I was responding most directly to 1) said he wanted to try STOCK offerings (which CC just doesn't carry), and 2) gave them a budget well below your example. He believed that there was a whole market out there for people like him [that CC doesn't satisfy]. I believe that one already exists -- and those are the big box stores that carry exactly what he's looking to try out. Now, that's a pretty low bar set there. Personally, I don't think the poster should relegate himself to that market. However, he did set his budget well below the example you gave, and said he wanted to try stock shafts that CC doesn't carry. (He even suggests that the fitter at CC should gear him toward something cheaper because of his "level" and how often he plays. Why should those things matter? How is a CC fitter supposed to assign a dollar amount to that?) I think the poster could be doing himself a disservice with his approach and criteria.

If he is willing to adjust his budget AT ALL, and/or if he wants to compare his stock offering to other aftermarket head/shaft combos, then CC IS HIS MARKET. And with the bar being set so low to consider yourself banished to the big-box-stores-only market, it doesn't take much to find that CC really could be an appropriate market to be in. He only needs to decide what he's willing to pay for, or what performance he's willing to forgo by sticking to his budget. As soon as he does that, CC is THE MARKET between off-the-shelf and the-skies-the-limit. And what he'll likely find there is that most people are in the same exact camp, who "want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check."

Now, if you think that CC doesn't actually cater to those people, or wish they charged less, or you don't like their business model, then that's another conversation.

Edited by KMeloney, 08 February 2019 - 05:51 PM.


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#131 KMeloney

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:50 PM

 chrisf60526, on 08 February 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

@KMeloney . I am sure that CC and their business model is not totally catering to what you describe above.  If all they targeted was "who has some flexibility in his budget who wants to find the best price-performance ratio beyond the stock offerings" they would not be in business for too long.

Who said anything about that being "all" they target? I didn't. Wow. I simply said that they cater to everyone beyond the big box stores. Knowing that you're going to spend SOMETHING more than at a big box store (even if it's only for the actual fitting), whether a CC fitting is "worth it" or not is going to be up to the individual to decide.

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#132 DeeBee30

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 06:02 PM

 KMeloney, on 08 February 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:

 DeeBee30, on 08 February 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

KMeloney, I think it's dismissive - and maybe a bit elitist - to insinuate that golfers who don't want to pay $800+ on tour-level shafts should be relegated to figuring it out through trial-and-error in a big-box store hitting bay.  While I'd concede that many of CC's happiest customers are probably those with higher budgets, there's an addressable market that's somewhere between them and the "off-the-shelf" buyers (and I'm confident CC wold agree).  

Many of us want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check. That may mean we opt for a lower cost shaft that provides a large percentage of the performance that the costlier one does.   The result might then be something like buying a $550 driver and installing a $350 shaft.  Although $900 is still a decent investment in a driver when compared to retail with stock shaft offerings, it leaves more room in the budget to address other parts of the bag, either today or somewhere down the line.

You've completely misread or misunderstood my post. Don't start with the "elitist" nonsense, because you're just way off base.

The poster I was responding most directly to 1) said he wanted to try STOCK offerings (which CC just doesn't carry), and 2) gave them a budget well below your example. He believed that there was a whole market out there for people like him [that CC doesn't satisfy]. I believe that one already exists -- and those are the big box stores that carry exactly what he's looking to try out. Now, that's a pretty low bar set there. Personally, I don't think the poster should relegate himself to that market. However, he did set his budget well below the example you gave, and said he wanted to try stock shafts that CC doesn't carry. (He even suggests that the fitter at CC should gear him toward something cheaper because of his "level" and how often he plays. Why should those things matter? How is a CC fitter supposed to assign a dollar amount to that?) I think the poster could be doing himself a disservice with his approach and criteria.

If he is willing to adjust his budget AT ALL, and/or if he wants to compare his stock offering to other aftermarket head/shaft combos, then CC IS HIS MARKET. And with the bar being set so low to consider yourself banished to the big-box-stores-only market, it doesn't take much to find that CC really could be an appropriate market to be in. He only needs to decide what he's willing to pay for, or what performance he's willing to forgo by sticking to his budget. As soon as he does that, CC is THE MARKET between off-the-shelf and the-skies-the-limit. And what he'll likely find there is that most people are in the same exact camp, who "want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check."

Now, if you think that CC doesn't actually cater to those people, or wish they charged less, or you don't like their business model, then that's another conversation.

Fair enough - sorry if I misinterpreted your post.
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#133 DeeBee30

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:10 PM

So...I’m going through the grind of deciding what I’m gonna do with the specs from my CC fitting, and a light bulb-type question just went off in my head: how likely is it that the fitter avoided having me hit a shaft simply because it’s available as a custom option from the iron manufacturer?

Background: my iron fitting specs call for Mizzy MP-18 SCs with KBS Tour V stiff shafts (110g).  It recently hit me that my fitter never had me hit any heads with the “standard” KBS Tour shafts (120g for stiff).  I’m currently in MP-52s with DG300 stiff (130g).  6i swing speed is 86mph, and the Tour V got my launch angle from about 21* to about 18*, while reducing backspin from ~5800 to ~5300.  All this increased carry from 161 to 172 and tightened dispersion.  

Now I’m wondering what kind of results I’d get with the Tour shaft and if I could save considerable money on the iron shafts and spend it somewhere else (like the M5 w/custom shaft!).  Guess I need to go hit some more!


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#134 KMeloney

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:39 PM

 DeeBee30, on 08 February 2019 - 06:02 PM, said:

Fair enough - sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

No worries. I just didn't want to have things go down some road that I never intended for, especially when it sounds like we're of the same mind regarding getting the most performance for the least amount of money.

Edited by KMeloney, 08 February 2019 - 08:40 PM.


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#135 Hambone1

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 10:41 PM

 DeeBee30, on 08 February 2019 - 08:10 PM, said:

So...Iím going through the grind of deciding what Iím gonna do with the specs from my CC fitting, and a light bulb-type question just went off in my head: how likely is it that the fitter avoided having me hit a shaft simply because itís available as a custom option from the iron manufacturer?

Background: my iron fitting specs call for Mizzy MP-18 SCs with KBS Tour V stiff shafts (110g).  It recently hit me that my fitter never had me hit any heads with the ďstandardĒ KBS Tour shafts (120g for stiff).  Iím currently in MP-52s with DG300 stiff (130g).  6i swing speed is 86mph, and the Tour V got my launch angle from about 21* to about 18*, while reducing backspin from ~5800 to ~5300.  All this increased carry from 161 to 172 and tightened dispersion.  

Now Iím wondering what kind of results Iíd get with the Tour shaft and if I could save considerable money on the iron shafts and spend it somewhere else (like the M5 w/custom shaft!).  Guess I need to go hit some more!

Those are two distinctly different shafts. Tour is heavier and different profile. Not to mention Tour Vís are stock in a ton of OEMís.

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#136 Frakes

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:54 PM

 DeeBee30, on 08 February 2019 - 08:10 PM, said:

So...Iím going through the grind of deciding what Iím gonna do with the specs from my CC fitting, and a light bulb-type question just went off in my head: how likely is it that the fitter avoided having me hit a shaft simply because itís available as a custom option from the iron manufacturer?

Background: my iron fitting specs call for Mizzy MP-18 SCs with KBS Tour V stiff shafts (110g).  It recently hit me that my fitter never had me hit any heads with the ďstandardĒ KBS Tour shafts (120g for stiff).  Iím currently in MP-52s with DG300 stiff (130g).  6i swing speed is 86mph, and the Tour V got my launch angle from about 21* to about 18*, while reducing backspin from ~5800 to ~5300.  All this increased carry from 161 to 172 and tightened dispersion.  

Now Iím wondering what kind of results Iíd get with the Tour shaft and if I could save considerable money on the iron shafts and spend it somewhere else (like the M5 w/custom shaft!).  Guess I need to go hit some more!

Not likely....even if it is a stock option, they are selling you their build quality (for irons anyway).

Edited by Frakes, 09 February 2019 - 07:47 PM.


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#137 jcolton

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 01:51 PM

 KMeloney, on 08 February 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:


You've completely misread or misunderstood my post. Don't start with the "elitist" nonsense, because you're just way off base.

The poster I was responding most directly to 1) said he wanted to try STOCK offerings (which CC just doesn't carry), and 2) gave them a budget well below your example. He believed that there was a whole market out there for people like him [that CC doesn't satisfy]. I believe that one already exists -- and those are the big box stores that carry exactly what he's looking to try out. Now, that's a pretty low bar set there. Personally, I don't think the poster should relegate himself to that market. However, he did set his budget well below the example you gave, and said he wanted to try stock shafts that CC doesn't carry. (He even suggests that the fitter at CC should gear him toward something cheaper because of his "level" and how often he plays. Why should those things matter? How is a CC fitter supposed to assign a dollar amount to that?) I think the poster could be doing himself a disservice with his approach and criteria.

If he is willing to adjust his budget AT ALL, and/or if he wants to compare his stock offering to other aftermarket head/shaft combos, then CC IS HIS MARKET. And with the bar being set so low to consider yourself banished to the big-box-stores-only market, it doesn't take much to find that CC really could be an appropriate market to be in. He only needs to decide what he's willing to pay for, or what performance he's willing to forgo by sticking to his budget. As soon as he does that, CC is THE MARKET between off-the-shelf and the-skies-the-limit. And what he'll likely find there is that most people are in the same exact camp, who "want the best performance from our equipment but prefer to keep the spending a little more in check."

Now, if you think that CC doesn't actually cater to those people, or wish they charged less, or you don't like their business model, then that's another conversation.

I never mentioned in my post or to him that I wanted to specifically try stock option shafts. I said I did not want to spend $1000 on one club and I suggested my budget being $500-$700, then I was told he can not fit me into a club that I can order from the manufacturer in that price range. Which my price range suggests that $100-$200 upgrade shafts that manufacturers offer are still in my price range. Maybe the phrase "stock option" wasn't the right one, by stock I meant ordered from the manufacturer. I also never expected the fitter put a dollar amount to my budget "because of my level and how often I play", which is why I told him my budget from the very beginning. I simply said I'm a weekend golfer and that was my personal reason as to why didn't want to spend $1000 on a driver. In my eyes the difference between a $700 driver (which you can order from the manufacturer and not through club champion) and a $1000 driver is not significant enough for me to justify spending the extra money. But what do I know, I've only been golfing for two years and have never even swung another driver besides the one I've been using the last two years from craigslist. Which bring ups a good point, as you said about comparing stock offerings to other aftermarket options. I was never asked or offered the chance to even think about adjusting my budget. I said I didn't want to spend $1000 on one club, gave him my budget, and was told I could not order anything from the manufacturer in that price range.  I would have been more than happy to hit higher end shafts to try and change my mind. Isn't their job to sell and upgrade products just like any other retail store? I'm paying the cost of a fitting, wouldn't the best thing to do be hit stock options and higher end options to open my eyes to the difference between the two? Not steer me out the door because I said I didn't want to spend $1000 on one club.

Maybe it was just bad communication between us from the beginning I'm not sure. Either way, they have made it right and have proved they really care about their customer service.

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#138 JoeBloe777

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:38 PM

From past experiences, if you walk into club champion and tell them your budget, 99% of the time they will find something that works into your budget. I honestly think they should ask every customer what their budget is. I know they are there to sell you the best thing for you, regardless of budget, but if both the fitter and the customer were on the same level as far as what the expected price range was, it would be much better process for all involved. If I walk into CC and they fit me into a 1000.00 dollar driver, then I have wasted not only my time, but theirs as well, because there is no chance that I am paying that. We both would have gotten a lot more out of the fitting if I would have been upfront and told them "hey, my budget it 700 bucks, can we keep it right around that?"At least then they know what shafts are not even worth trying, no matter how much better they may be.

Honestly, I think it really depends on the fitter you have. The fitters I have had at CC have done a great job trying cheap shafts, mid level shafts, and super expensive shafts and showing me the performance difference. Each time I have come away with a shaft that was in my price range that performs amazing. Not it may not be as well a the expensive, but the 3 yard difference is not worth the extra $$ to me. AND my fitter has been extremely upfront about that with me, which is why I have trusted them for several years. The guys in Chicago do a great job telling me when I don't need to upgrade, which proves they are not just there to sell me new stuff if I don't need it.

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#139 SpacklersEdge

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 08:13 PM

I have read several times in this post that they do not carry stock shaft options. Does this apply to driver shafts only or also iron shafts? So you’re telling me they don’t carry your typical DG Regular and DG stiff etc?

Also another question. With that it appears you are describing as far as pricing, should I assume a new set of 8 irons must be 2K+?

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#140 KMeloney

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:53 AM

 jcolton, on 09 February 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

I was never asked or offered the chance to even think about adjusting my budget. I said I didn't want to spend $1000 on one club, gave him my budget, and was told I could not order anything from the manufacturer in that price range.  I would have been more than happy to hit higher end shafts to try and change my mind.

This just got a little more confusing. If your budget was your budget, and you made that clear, then it sounds like the fitter did exactly what you asked him to do -- to only offer combos that were within your budget. When you wrote "In my eyes the difference between a $700 driver (which you can order from the manufacturer and not through club champion) and a $1000 driver is not significant enough for me to justify spending the extra money" along with your other budgetary concerns, it doesn't sound as though you were at all receptive to trying high(er)-end shafts. Either there was a huge communication issue, or he really did try to do what you were asking of him.

Quote

Isn't their job to sell and upgrade products just like any other retail store? I'm paying the cost of a fitting, wouldn't the best thing to do be hit stock options and higher end options to open my eyes to the difference between the two? Not steer me out the door because I said I didn't want to spend $1000 on one club.

No. At least I don't think so. I've posted this experience here before, but I've been in one bay for a fitting at my local CC when a local college player was being fitted in the other bay, and the fitter couldn't improve upon the player's results with any different equipment. The fitter said that as much as he'd love to sell him new gear, it just wouldn't make any sense. Granted, this guy was apparently a really good player who already hits the ball well and is in equipment that works for him, but it was refreshing to see that no, these guys aren't all snake oil salesmen trying to up-sell the unsuspecting masses on anything. I'm sure there ARE fitters like that out there, but I also know there are good guys, too.

Regarding the idea of trying high-end shafts to see the difference (even if none exists) between them and stock/"inexpensive," yes, I think that's a great idea, and would imagine it's one of the reasons (or THE reason?) why anyone would go for a fitting in the first place. The idea should be to try to find out how much you can improve on your results. Sometimes you might get the best results with what turns out to be an extremely expensive shaft. Whereas you may never be willing to pay anything beyond a set budget, some folks have no budget ceiling, and some start with one but are willing to go past it if the results from something outside of their initial budget is "worth" the extra money to them. It sounds like -- only from what you've written here -- that you didn't communicate to the fitter that you were in that last camp.

I'm guessing that the ideal scenario for CC is fitting someone with no budget cap into top-end equipment that actually works best for him. I'm also guessing that the idea scenario for anyone being fitted is to get the best results from stock/the least expensive combo gear. But I think that those scenarios are extremes, and that CC is successful in part because it mostly operates in the space between those extremes.


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#141 KMeloney

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:01 AM

View PostJoeBloe777, on 10 February 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

If I walk into CC and they fit me into a 1000.00 dollar driver, then I have wasted not only my time, but theirs as well, because there is no chance that I am paying that. We both would have gotten a lot more out of the fitting if I would have been upfront and told them "hey, my budget it 700 bucks, can we keep it right around that?"At least then they know what shafts are not even worth trying, no matter how much better they may be.

Are you SURE about that? What if you found that you got the best results from an expensive shaft, and then found someone selling that very shaft here for a lot less money? You might want to know what possibilities are out there, even if you have no intention of purchasing from CC or actually pursuing that equipment later. You've already paid for the fitting, so whose time is being wasted?

People often take their fitting specs from CC and pursue the equipment on their own. You don't have to buy from CC/pay their prices.

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#142 Krt22

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:38 PM

View PostKMeloney, on 11 February 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

View PostJoeBloe777, on 10 February 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

If I walk into CC and they fit me into a 1000.00 dollar driver, then I have wasted not only my time, but theirs as well, because there is no chance that I am paying that. We both would have gotten a lot more out of the fitting if I would have been upfront and told them "hey, my budget it 700 bucks, can we keep it right around that?"At least then they know what shafts are not even worth trying, no matter how much better they may be.

Are you SURE about that? What if you found that you got the best results from an expensive shaft, and then found someone selling that very shaft here for a lot less money? You might want to know what possibilities are out there, even if you have no intention of purchasing from CC or actually pursuing that equipment later. You've already paid for the fitting, so whose time is being wasted?

People often take their fitting specs from CC and pursue the equipment on their own. You don't have to buy from CC/pay their prices.

Bingo. Very easy to find good shafts for much less than retail, find lightly used driver heads for much less. There is also something to be said about knowing what shaft type suits your swing as well (ie flex, weight, basic bend profile).  I was fit into a speeder EVO V 757X. It's the replacement for the original speeder evolution, so I picked that up as a cheap experiment off ebay, eventually picked up the Evo V as well. Overall performance seems pretty comparable and both eliminated the big ugly duck hook which was common with my previous gamer (ADDI 6X).

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#143 DeeBee30

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:38 AM

View PostKrt22, on 11 February 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

View PostKMeloney, on 11 February 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

View PostJoeBloe777, on 10 February 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

If I walk into CC and they fit me into a 1000.00 dollar driver, then I have wasted not only my time, but theirs as well, because there is no chance that I am paying that. We both would have gotten a lot more out of the fitting if I would have been upfront and told them "hey, my budget it 700 bucks, can we keep it right around that?"At least then they know what shafts are not even worth trying, no matter how much better they may be.

Are you SURE about that? What if you found that you got the best results from an expensive shaft, and then found someone selling that very shaft here for a lot less money? You might want to know what possibilities are out there, even if you have no intention of purchasing from CC or actually pursuing that equipment later. You've already paid for the fitting, so whose time is being wasted?

People often take their fitting specs from CC and pursue the equipment on their own. You don't have to buy from CC/pay their prices.

Bingo. Very easy to find good shafts for much less than retail, find lightly used driver heads for much less. There is also something to be said about knowing what shaft type suits your swing as well (ie flex, weight, basic bend profile).  I was fit into a speeder EVO V 757X. It's the replacement for the original speeder evolution, so I picked that up as a cheap experiment off ebay, eventually picked up the Evo V as well. Overall performance seems pretty comparable and both eliminated the big ugly duck hook which was common with my previous gamer (ADDI 6X).

Yeah, I knew going in that there would be a premium to pay if I wanted to get the stuff from CC, but I didn't know what it would be.  I looked at it as a two-part process.  Step 1 was to pay for their fitting service.  They offer it as a stand-alone service for a reason, and I see that as a fair exchange.  Step 2, after finding out what head/shaft combinations seem to fit me best, was to determine their cost premium.  Their prices, before taxes, are actually just under $300 more than retail prices, and 100% of that is in the disassembly and club building work. They're not marking up any of the hard goods.  

The reality is that I'm finding good online prices for new and very lightly used driver heads, along with some shaft pulls - combined with a shaft adapter and grip, I could get the components of my recommended custom driver for about the same as a stock one off the shelf.  I just have to decide whether it's worth the $400 premium to get it all brand new from them and have them PURE and assemble it.  Then I have to go through the same thought process with the irons.  

Don't get me wrong...I went into this process being ready to spend money on new (to me) sticks.  While I didn't have a set budget in mind, it's hard to ignore the cost difference between buying new from them vs. sourcing new or lightly used online.  For a driver, 7 irons and 3 wedges, that difference is substantial - like nearly half my annual green fees spend, or more than one of my golf trips.
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#144 Arlin964

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 05:09 PM

View PostKrt22, on 05 February 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

View PostDeeBee30, on 05 February 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

Krt:

- TM M5 9* w/full fade weight bias and w/Fuji Speeder Evo II 661 stiff
- Mizuno MP18 SC w/KBS Tour V stiff; standard length and lie
- Titleist Vokey wedges: 52/12, 56/10, 60/12; stock shafts
- Installing all Golf Pride New Decade Midsize grips as per my current clubs
- Hybrid still TBD

Keeping my TM SLDR 3W and Odyssey White Hot #1 putter, just adding a Superstroke 3.0 grip to putter

Cool, debunks the myth that CC only fits ppl into Oban iron shafts and accra wood shafts =)

Both my buddy and I were recommended to play the same iron shafts in the wedges, so interesting they have you in the stock DG wedge shaft

Funny you say that. At my fitting, I was started with Oban shafts and they just didnít work. I ended up with Accra in Driver, 3w, and hybrids. Still working through what I intend to buy through CC and what Iíll try on my own.

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#145 sdiz88

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 12:31 PM

First post, long time member. I'd agree that since CC is a chain, experiences will vary from location and staff. I was fit at my local CC, and the experience was great. They spent 2+ hours and 150+ swings with multiple combos to make sure my new driver, 3w, and 3h were dialed in perfectly. Honestly, the pricing didn't even occur to me until my fitter showed and explained the final spec sheet. Obviously I knew that it was going to cost more than the average shop since the tour spec shafts performed best in my scenario, and we were working with newly released equipment. If you think about it, even the big box places don't discount the newly released clubs. CC charges full retail and only carry the newest models, they also charge time for their services. This will obviously make them expensive in comparison, but their perfect fit guarantee, warranties, convenience, and overall customer service was well worth it in my opinion. They weren't pushy in any way, I could've just as easily taken my specs elsewhere but it just didn't make sense for me.


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#146 gsrjc

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 10:54 PM

https://www.pehub.co...club-champion/#

CC was just acquired.

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#147 GolfChannel

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 01:25 PM

View Postgsrjc, on 16 February 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:


Okay, here comes the expansion.
Driver: Who needs that kind of negativity in their life...
3 Wood: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Blue Evenflow 75
5 Wood: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Blue Evenflow 75
Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 Degree w/Accra 182H M3
Irons: Callaway Apex CF16 Nippon Modus 120
Wedges: Callaway MD3 50, 54, and Honma TW737 Forged 62
Putter: Odyssey White Hot XG No. 7
Ball: Callaway Chromesoft 2018 (Yellow)

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