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Callaway GBB Epic and Epic Sub Zero: Drivers and Fairways


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#1981 Ryan5508

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 05:54 PM

Best picture of the dent I can get

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  • 20170828_185144.jpg

Callaway Epic Sub Zero
Callaway Epic Sub Zero 3 wood
Callaway APEX Hybrid 2, 3, 4
Callaway APEX Pro 16's AW-5
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#1982 Hifade

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:10 PM

I mentioned earlier in this thread, or another, that I had caved in the toe end of the face of my SZ 3W about two weeks ago, as well. I needed another one quickly, so I bought another (as well as a standard 3W) but will still be contacting Cally CS to have my damaged one replaced. Mine does not look as bad as the one above (Ryan's), but caved, nonetheless. The funny thing is.......I rarely miss it on the toe, but remember the exact shot when this happened. I hit it out there and the ball just went left and dove.

SZ 3W face - toe cave.jpg

Edited by Hifade, 28 August 2017 - 06:11 PM.

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#1983 LaymanM

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:25 PM

View Postnsxguy, on 25 August 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

View Postxjohnx, on 22 August 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

View PostLaymanM, on 22 August 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

View Postxjohnx, on 21 August 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

View PostLaymanM, on 21 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

Well...my Sub Zero driver and Epic fairway will be going off to find a new home.  I've given up on them.  I can bomb the Sub Zero but it's just don't consistent enough for me.  Traded them for Fusion 44.5 and picking up Fusion 3 and 5 woods.  I hit my dads on the course and they are just consistently longer.  Driver is 10 yards longer on best drives .  I don't know why, maybe shorter shaft.  It's also more of a fairway finder.  I'm done being subdued by launch monitor numbers. Trackman cool but it's on course demo only from me now on.

The two most likely scenarios are you're either just hitting the fusion mode solid to generate more ball speed or you couldn't generate enough spin with the sub zero. I'm also guessing we're talking about two different shafts?

Yes two different shafts.  Def more ball speed with Fusion.  It's shorter driver.  44.5.  I think I swing it several mph faster as well.  Not sure on spin.  Much different ball flight.  Very high but ridiculously long.  

Sub Zero on trackman was 2000-2200 rpm.  A lot of the shots were similar distance but the fusion feels better and is straighter.  Fairways are good ��

That's borderline too low spin depending on the ball speeds. It makes sense that you would hit the shorter shaft more solid and gain some ball speed. If you're truly getting "several" mph more club head speed you were definitely playing the wrong shaft in the SZ. Don't get me wrong, I support going to something that just works better, especially something potentially more forgiving. I just think your experience was mostly due to poor fit. Would be interesting to throw the shaft from the Fusion into the SZ and see what happened.

With 90 mph or more that's plenty of spin. In fact, Flightscope.com has pretty much everything launched at 1700 RPM as going further than anything with more spin.

The unit in the fitting bay at PGATSS says the same thing for me. Whether real world results agree ???

It's plenty of spin in theory...my club head speed pushes to 100 mph. Never below 95.  Course it's a different story, results were just not there.  Yes, long drives but too many times the ball wasn't were I wanted it to be.  Too far right or too far left depending on shot shape I wanted.  Fusion, haven't measured but I think I swing it faster and I am more accurate with my drives.  That is huge.  Not as long on all drives but on average I think it's longer and leaves a much better approach shot.  No OB strokes as of yet!

PS:  I'm not claiming the lower spin is cause for it being less accurate.

Edited by LaymanM, 28 August 2017 - 06:26 PM.

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#1984 chisag

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:34 PM

View PostLaymanM, on 28 August 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:


It's plenty of spin in theory...my club head speed pushes to 100 mph. Never below 95.  Course it's a different story, results were just not there.  Yes, long drives but too many times the ball wasn't were I wanted it to be.  Too far right or too far left depending on shot shape I wanted.  Fusion, haven't measured but I think I swing it faster and I am more accurate with my drives.  That is huge. Not as long on all drives but on average I think it's longer and leaves a much better approach shot. No OB strokes as of yet!

... Imo this should be the main requirement for any new driver. The Fly Z has been in my bag for 3 years because it was Not as long on all drives but on average I think it's longer and leaves a much better approach shot. I tried a M1 and a G30LS and both were longer but I was just too inconsistent with them. The Epic has finally unseated it and while it is not quite as dependable as my Fly Z, it is pretty close and  consistently added 10+ yards to my driving while keeping it in play.
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#1985 lil'mike

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:42 PM

View PostHifade, on 28 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I mentioned earlier in this thread, or another, that I had caved in the toe end of the face of my SZ 3W about two weeks ago, as well. I needed another one quickly, so I bought another (as well as a standard 3W) but will still be contacting Cally CS to have my damaged one replaced. Mine does not look as bad as the one above (Ryan's), but caved, nonetheless. The funny thing is.......I rarely miss it on the toe, but remember the exact shot when this happened. I hit it out there and the ball just went left and dove.

Attachment SZ 3W face - toe cave.jpg

Holy crap!  You weren't hitting a Top Flite ball were you?  Just kidding!  That is unbelievable!


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#1986 HarrisonBB

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 07:34 PM

Just ordered an Epic Sub-Zero 3+ Wood (13.5*) and 5 wood (18*). Paired them with Accra FX-200 M4 shafts. Will let you know how good or bad I hit them this weekend.

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#1987 sonodo

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:28 AM

Driver test 2017.png Based on various driver tests done by Toll Bros I decided to go with the Subzero.

The image summarizes the test results. 4 modern driver heads were tested by 3 players using the same shaft.  My take on it is that all 4 heads produced similar ball speeds.  Knowing this fact was very important to me.  I did not want a driver head that was inferior when it came to ball speed and thus distance.

Then I looked at the spin rate and again I concluded that all 4 heads produced very low spin.  The M1 produced the lowest spin for all three players and Sub Zero was the second lowest for two of the players but very similar to M2.

Based purely on the numbers I decided to go with the Sub Zero because it offers the most adjustability.

For the test, the SZ had 8g back and 6g forward.  By moving the weight forward I can further lower the spin or by moving the weight back I can increase the spin slightly and increase the MOI as a bonus.

Obviously, the main overriding factor should be the feel and comfort level, but the numbers are important.

Although all the heads produced similar numbers, it was noted that these modern heads with a modern low spin shaft produced spin numbers that were not possible, say 5 years ago.
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#1988 coreyhr

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:42 AM

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 August 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Has anyone struggled with the Epic spinning initially then found a shaft that was a good fit and reduced spin? I loved the ball speed I got with the Epic, but I spun it too much. I even tried a T1100 in it but that didn't bring it down either. Thinking the head just isn't a fit for my swing. I'm not getting the same ball speed with my M1 440 but it's impossible to spin it more than 2300-2400, which I love. I had the same results with the Sub Zero head btw, same spin numbers but lower ball speed.

Just a small update on this. I've went back to testing an Epic and put in a Tensei Pro Orange. Seeing much better results with spin living mostly in that 2400-2500 range. High toe strikes being down at 2000. I'd prefer to average closer to that 2000 mark, but I can live with 2400-2500. If I could get the ball speed of the Epic but the spin of the M1 440, I'd be in heaven. And I'll reiterate that I did try the SZ before, I saw a minimal drop in spin with a much more noticeable drop in ball speed. Goes to show once again that everyone's mileage varies.

I will also add, that I added weight to the head this time around and I'm liking the results a lot.The head I bought weighed around 192 grams and I've got it around 199 at the moment. I've got an 8 gram weight from billybobsgolf on the way to get it up to 199-200 without having use lead tape. When comparing perfect strikes, I don't believe there's anything longer than the Epic. Very forgiving as well.
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#1989 xjohnx

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:58 AM

View Postcoreyhr, on 29 August 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 August 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Has anyone struggled with the Epic spinning initially then found a shaft that was a good fit and reduced spin? I loved the ball speed I got with the Epic, but I spun it too much. I even tried a T1100 in it but that didn't bring it down either. Thinking the head just isn't a fit for my swing. I'm not getting the same ball speed with my M1 440 but it's impossible to spin it more than 2300-2400, which I love. I had the same results with the Sub Zero head btw, same spin numbers but lower ball speed.

Just a small update on this. I've went back to testing an Epic and put in a Tensei Pro Orange. Seeing much better results with spin living mostly in that 2400-2500 range. High toe strikes being down at 2000. I'd prefer to average closer to that 2000 mark, but I can live with 2400-2500. If I could get the ball speed of the Epic but the spin of the M1 440, I'd be in heaven. And I'll reiterate that I did try the SZ before, I saw a minimal drop in spin with a much more noticeable drop in ball speed. Goes to show once again that everyone's mileage varies.

I will also add, that I added weight to the head this time around and I'm liking the results a lot.The head I bought weighed around 192 grams and I've got it around 199 at the moment. I've got an 8 gram weight from billybobsgolf on the way to get it up to 199-200 without having use lead tape. When comparing perfect strikes, I don't believe there's anything longer than the Epic. Very forgiving as well.

I would still recommend trying the SZ with the weight forward. You shouldn't notice much, if any, difference in ball speed so I wonder if you just tried a bogus head.

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#1990 radiman

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 09:06 AM

View Postxjohnx, on 29 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 29 August 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 August 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Has anyone struggled with the Epic spinning initially then found a shaft that was a good fit and reduced spin? I loved the ball speed I got with the Epic, but I spun it too much. I even tried a T1100 in it but that didn't bring it down either. Thinking the head just isn't a fit for my swing. I'm not getting the same ball speed with my M1 440 but it's impossible to spin it more than 2300-2400, which I love. I had the same results with the Sub Zero head btw, same spin numbers but lower ball speed.

Just a small update on this. I've went back to testing an Epic and put in a Tensei Pro Orange. Seeing much better results with spin living mostly in that 2400-2500 range. High toe strikes being down at 2000. I'd prefer to average closer to that 2000 mark, but I can live with 2400-2500. If I could get the ball speed of the Epic but the spin of the M1 440, I'd be in heaven. And I'll reiterate that I did try the SZ before, I saw a minimal drop in spin with a much more noticeable drop in ball speed. Goes to show once again that everyone's mileage varies.

I will also add, that I added weight to the head this time around and I'm liking the results a lot.The head I bought weighed around 192 grams and I've got it around 199 at the moment. I've got an 8 gram weight from billybobsgolf on the way to get it up to 199-200 without having use lead tape. When comparing perfect strikes, I don't believe there's anything longer than the Epic. Very forgiving as well.

I would still recommend trying the SZ with the weight forward. You shouldn't notice much, if any, difference in ball speed so I wonder if you just tried a bogus head.

I second this.  I've been playing the weight forward for a couple months now.  I haven't even noticed it being any less forgiving.  I'm sure it is, but it can't be by much.

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#1991 coreyhr

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 09:42 AM

I think it's certainly possible, with manufacture tolerances still not being perfect. I still have numbers off my GC2 with weight forward and back, so I did compare that before. I'm going to get one of the SZ demos from my club this week though and see how it performs with the Tensei. I honestly think the T1100 was just a really poor fit for my swing. I'll post some numbers soon of the Epic vs SZ with the Tensei.
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#1992 Deuce78

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 09:58 AM


Why some get better BS with SZ or some with regular epic, I don't know.  But it seems one will work better for different golfers, no constant SZ is better or epic is better.  I had a t1100 and orange and got similar numbers with each.  Both are nice shafts.
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#1993 xjohnx

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

FWIW, smash factor is more relevant to what we're all talking about here. It would be helpful to recall your numbers, Corey. Assuming the shafts were the same and clubhead speed the same, that means smash factor was lower on the SZ for you. I believe, if anything, the weight forward on the SZ should improve smash factor a little for most (could be wrong there). That just sounds like a head that snuck through QC at the lowest cor. within tolerance. Or maybe worse.

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#1994 coreyhr

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 11:07 AM

I'm having trouble finding that fitting session, not sure if I emailed it to myself from my iPad. I will have apples to apples numbers in the next day or so with both. Won't be the same SZ I use to have. Will be interesting to see. I'm admittedly far too critical and put too much weight behind launch monitor numbers. I'm getting much better however about doing on course/in round testing vs just pounding 100 balls on a launch monitor. The Epic is flat out performing on the course at the moment, and that's ultimately all that matters. In the mean time, here are some numbers from last night where I was playing around with the weight slider. It's interesting to me how much that truly can effect CG and draw/fade bias.

I did also dig up my numbers from when I tested the SZ and Epic 3 woods. I had similar results with them. Both tested with the same Graphite Design AD TP 7S shaft. I've included that data in the second pic.

Tensei.jpg
EpicvsSZ.jpg

Edited by coreyhr, 29 August 2017 - 12:38 PM.

Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
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#1995 xjohnx

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:17 PM

Thanks for posting the info. I love geeking out with this stuff. It would still be interesting to see the smash factor or at least the club head speed to compare the two. How do you account for the tremendous jump in ball speed from the data in the second pic to the first pic?

Edited by xjohnx, 29 August 2017 - 12:17 PM.


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#1996 Peanut191

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

View Postxjohnx, on 29 August 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thanks for posting the info. I love geeking out with this stuff. It would still be interesting to see the smash factor or at least the club head speed to compare the two. How do you account for the tremendous jump in ball speed from the data in the second pic to the first pic?

I think the first pic is the driver stats and the second pick is the fairway wood stats.
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#1997 coreyhr

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM

View Postxjohnx, on 29 August 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thanks for posting the info. I love geeking out with this stuff. It would still be interesting to see the smash factor or at least the club head speed to compare the two. How do you account for the tremendous jump in ball speed from the data in the second pic to the first pic?

Sorry, my wording was possibly a little confusing. I couldn't find the SZ/Epic driver data in my email. It's on my iPad, I apparently didn't ever email it to myself. Peanut is correct, the second picture is where I tested the Epic and SZ 3 woods.

Also, I don't have HMT with my GC2 unfortunately. So I'm unable to get club data.

Edited by coreyhr, 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM.

Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
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#1998 xjohnx

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

View Postcoreyhr, on 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

View Postxjohnx, on 29 August 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thanks for posting the info. I love geeking out with this stuff. It would still be interesting to see the smash factor or at least the club head speed to compare the two. How do you account for the tremendous jump in ball speed from the data in the second pic to the first pic?

Sorry, my wording was possibly a little confusing. I couldn't find the SZ/Epic driver data in my email. It's on my iPad, I apparently didn't ever email it to myself. Peanut is correct, the second picture is where I tested the Epic and SZ 3 woods.

Also, I don't have HMT with my GC2 unfortunately. So I'm unable to get club data.

This is what happens when you're incredibly busy at work and still feel the need to keep up with WRX. Sorry I read too fast.

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#1999 chershey

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:28 PM

View PostDeuce78, on 29 August 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Why some get better BS with SZ or some with regular epic, I don't know.  But it seems one will work better for different golfers, no constant SZ is better or epic is better.  I had a t1100 and orange and got similar numbers with each.  Both are nice shafts.

Yeah, it's interesting for sure. I played the EPIC SZ for months and hit it pretty well, but never tried the regular EPIC. I recently tried them side by side, with the same shaft, and was getting around 5 mph more ball speed out of the regular EPIC with only slightly more spin. I made the switch and don't regret it at all. I get more distance out of the regular EPIC and it's more forgiving. That's a win win in my book.
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#2000 nsxguy

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 10:44 PM

View Postcoreyhr, on 29 August 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

I think it's certainly possible, with manufacture tolerances still not being perfect. I still have numbers off my GC2 with weight forward and back, so I did compare that before. I'm going to get one of the SZ demos from my club this week though and see how it performs with the Tensei. I honestly think the T1100 was just a really poor fit for my swing. I'll post some numbers soon of the Epic vs SZ with the Tensei.

Any chance you can get your hands on a Hzrdus Black to try ? Killed my spin (2400 +/- 200) down to around 19-2000.

Callaway Fusion 9* Project X Handcrafted Hzrdus Black "60" 6.0
Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, 20*, 23*
Ping G20 5-U, DG S300
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#2001 coreyhr

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

EpicVsM1.jpg
Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
Taylormade M1 15* - Tour AD DI 8S
Taylormade UDI 18* - Tour AD DI 95S
Srixon Z745 - KBS Tour 120 Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM5 50*, 56*, 60*
Odyssey O-Works V-Line Fang CH

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#2002 t4t3r

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:26 AM

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

Attachment EpicVsM1.jpg

What lofts were/are you using in each head?
Taylormade 2016 M2 10.5 - Diamana Whiteboard 63x
Callaway Epic 15 - Graphite Design Tour AD-GP 7x
Titleist 913H 19* - Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid X
Bridgestone J15CB 4-PW - Dynamic Gold TI X100
Mizuno MP-T11 52.07, Callaway MD2 Tour Grind 56.11
Taylormade Tour Spider

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#2003 coreyhr

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:31 AM

View Postt4t3r, on 08 September 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

Attachment EpicVsM1.jpg

What lofts were/are you using in each head?


Epic is 9* turned down to 8*
M1 is 9.5* turned down to the "lower" setting. So I believe that's 7.5*?
Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
Taylormade M1 15* - Tour AD DI 8S
Taylormade UDI 18* - Tour AD DI 95S
Srixon Z745 - KBS Tour 120 Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM5 50*, 56*, 60*
Odyssey O-Works V-Line Fang CH

23

#2004 xjohnx

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

View Postt4t3r, on 08 September 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

Attachment EpicVsM1.jpg

What lofts were/are you using in each head?


Epic is 9* turned down to 8*
M1 is 9.5* turned down to the "lower" setting. So I believe that's 7.5*?

What's your aoa? Seems like you're launching really high given those lofts? Impressive stuff for sure. Wish I could hit the ball like that.

Given the ball speed gains, it seems like you're leaving some carry distance on the table due to slightly higher spin. You'd be sailing by that M1 if you could reduce spin a little more, huh? Would be interesting the see your numbers with the SZ head with weight forward with that same shaft.

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#2005 coreyhr

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:31 AM

View Postxjohnx, on 08 September 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

View Postt4t3r, on 08 September 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

Attachment EpicVsM1.jpg

What lofts were/are you using in each head?


Epic is 9* turned down to 8*
M1 is 9.5* turned down to the "lower" setting. So I believe that's 7.5*?

What's your aoa? Seems like you're launching really high given those lofts? Impressive stuff for sure. Wish I could hit the ball like that.

Given the ball speed gains, it seems like you're leaving some carry distance on the table due to slightly higher spin. You'd be sailing by that M1 if you could reduce spin a little more, huh? Would be interesting the see your numbers with the SZ head with weight forward with that same shaft.

Last time I was on Trackman, my AoA was 4-4.5. I swing up on it a little more than I'd like honestly, but that produces the best spin numbers for me.

My club didn't have the 9* SZ anymore for some reason, it's up and vanished. I took the 10.5* out and I couldn't even keep it on the map or hit it well enough to even warrant a comparison. I see the same results as the MGS cg test when it comes to the SZ cg being toward the heel. I know most everyone says it's fade biased, but I feel it's prone to a draw. I put a little too much draw spin on the ball as is, it seems to exaggerate it.

I have a friend that I talked in to trying the Epic line. He was topping out around 165 mph ball speed with the SZ and was getting 168-170 with the standard Epic. That was with my Tensei Orange in both heads. Needless to say, he had me find him an Epic head.

I'd like to get that spin down a little more, but I can live with 2300 average. It's those 2700-2800 that creep in where I have to settle a little bit. Ultimately, 300-400 rpm's of spin isn't going to knock that much of yardage off. If you take my numbers above and plug in 2000 spin and then 2500. You only get a difference of 1 yard of carry distance and 4 yards of roll out. That's negligible really.

Edited by coreyhr, 08 September 2017 - 11:32 AM.

Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
Taylormade M1 15* - Tour AD DI 8S
Taylormade UDI 18* - Tour AD DI 95S
Srixon Z745 - KBS Tour 120 Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM5 50*, 56*, 60*
Odyssey O-Works V-Line Fang CH

25

#2006 xjohnx

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:44 PM

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

View Postxjohnx, on 08 September 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

View Postt4t3r, on 08 September 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postcoreyhr, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've got a few rounds under my belt now with the Epic/Tensei Orange combo. I'm convinced this is the driver for me long term at this point. My first full round on the course with it I hit 13/14 fairways. Adding the extra 8 gram weight made all the difference in the world. I'm glad I gave the Epic head another chance after axing it initially in the spring. I'm attaching some more numbers of a comparison between my M1 440/AD-DI vs the Epic/Tensei. I don't put a lot of stock in Foresight's carry algorithm, so I punched the numbers in Flightscope's Optimizer and those are the carry and totals I go by. Love the jump in ball speed I get with the Epic. The ball speed is so consistent as well, see very little fluctuation.

Attachment EpicVsM1.jpg

What lofts were/are you using in each head?


Epic is 9* turned down to 8*
M1 is 9.5* turned down to the "lower" setting. So I believe that's 7.5*?

What's your aoa? Seems like you're launching really high given those lofts? Impressive stuff for sure. Wish I could hit the ball like that.

Given the ball speed gains, it seems like you're leaving some carry distance on the table due to slightly higher spin. You'd be sailing by that M1 if you could reduce spin a little more, huh? Would be interesting the see your numbers with the SZ head with weight forward with that same shaft.

Last time I was on Trackman, my AoA was 4-4.5. I swing up on it a little more than I'd like honestly, but that produces the best spin numbers for me.

My club didn't have the 9* SZ anymore for some reason, it's up and vanished. I took the 10.5* out and I couldn't even keep it on the map or hit it well enough to even warrant a comparison. I see the same results as the MGS cg test when it comes to the SZ cg being toward the heel. I know most everyone says it's fade biased, but I feel it's prone to a draw. I put a little too much draw spin on the ball as is, it seems to exaggerate it.

I have a friend that I talked in to trying the Epic line. He was topping out around 165 mph ball speed with the SZ and was getting 168-170 with the standard Epic. That was with my Tensei Orange in both heads. Needless to say, he had me find him an Epic head.

I'd like to get that spin down a little more, but I can live with 2300 average. It's those 2700-2800 that creep in where I have to settle a little bit. Ultimately, 300-400 rpm's of spin isn't going to knock that much of yardage off. If you take my numbers above and plug in 2000 spin and then 2500. You only get a difference of 1 yard of carry distance and 4 yards of roll out. That's negligible really.

It's so easy to get caught up in the numbers. You def hit it far enough, hahaha.

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#2007 coreyhr

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

It really is. A launch monitor can be a double edged sword sometimes. Up until recently, I would obsess over backspin. Making driver decisions based on literally 100-200 rpm's of backspin. Haha. It's beneficial to get those numbers, but they should really only be used as a compliment to on course testing where the rubber meets the road. Finally learning to suppress my inner hoe, bag is officially set.
Callaway Epic 9* - Tensei Pro Orange 60TX
Taylormade M1 15* - Tour AD DI 8S
Taylormade UDI 18* - Tour AD DI 95S
Srixon Z745 - KBS Tour 120 Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM5 50*, 56*, 60*
Odyssey O-Works V-Line Fang CH

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#2008 Ryan5508

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:51 AM

New replacement sub Zero 3 wood head is way hotter then my original. Went out and played my normal local short course. There are about 3 holes that are drivable with a 3 woods if you cut the corner. I ususal hit around the front of the green with a 15 deg SZ turned down a deg. The new head set at 15 deg is blasting over the greens by 15-20 yards. This new head reminds me more of my 816 DBD I played last year. feels a bit more alive off the face.

my first tee shot with it was 9 yards longer then my best with the last head. Really hope this one lasts longer for me
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#2009 longballjs

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:06 PM

Just sent my 10.5 epic sz back for a half inch crack forming on the heel side of the face. Sound changed and distance shortened. Accuracy seemed unaffected.

Titleist ProV1 Experience 7/12/17-7/13/17


Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9.5 Fujikura Pro Green 62 xstiff

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#2010 Booker

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:42 PM

View Postlongballjs, on 13 September 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

Just sent my 10.5 epic sz back for a half inch crack forming on the heel side of the face. Sound changed and distance shortened. Accuracy seemed unaffected.

Happened to mine after only having it for 10 days. Turn around from callaway was 16 days.


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