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Comparison-- Tensei Orange V2, Kuro Kage Dual Core XT, Tensei Pro White


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#61 mtg

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:02 PM

View PostTollBros, on 09 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postmtg, on 08 October 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Earlier in this thread it was stated that the Orange being released to the broader public is the V3, which was said to be a counterbalanced version of the Tensei White. The Orange being released by MRC has a completely different profile than the white. Just curious how to square this circle. Is the one being released closer to the V2? Was the V3 never really a CB white, but a different shaft altogether? Or what.. anyone know?

This thread is a year old. Profiles change, things evolve, etc. To answer your question, the Pro Orange was said to be a counterbanced pro white in terms of PERFORMANCE. As in launch and spin characteristics, nobody ever said they have the same precise EI profile. That statement is still generally true.

I have no idea what the age of the thread has to do with it. As far as I know MRC has only released one Tensei orange to the public. That's the one that was being referred to in he thread.. correct me if I'm wrong.

And I've never heard of shafts being referred to as the same because hey have similar launch characteristics. I might launch and spin X100s the same as PX 6.5s: they aren't the same. And as everyone knows on this site, launch and spin vary swing to swing, so why anyone would use that as the identifier for a shaft is strange.

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#62 noodle3872

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:50 AM

I guess the confusion is your description of the Orange V3 as a counter balanced version of the Pro White.  It's not quite that literal.  The Pro Orange, formerly the V3, bend profile is stiffer in the tip and has a softer butt section than the Pro White.  Add in the counter balancing of the Pro Orange and it changes how the shaft feels while under load.  I have both the Pro Orange (V3) and the Pro White.  The White feels softer in my hands compared to the Pro Orange which is contrary to the EI profile MCA provides.  Furthermore, the Pro Orange feels like it loads more uniformly along the length of the shaft.  Both are amazing shaft that are low launch/low spin but they accomplish it with different materials, bend profiles and "feels".
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#63 mtg

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:00 PM

There's no confusion. Quite the contrary.. we're clarifying the issue for others who visit the thread. By your own account the White and V3 are not similar. In feel or EI. Certainly not balance, as even the Tensei expert acknowledges. Launch and spin might be similar... but as always could vary a good bit depending on your action.
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#64 GreenGrassEvaluations

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:57 PM

View Postmtg, on 09 October 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 09 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postmtg, on 08 October 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Earlier in this thread it was stated that the Orange being released to the broader public is the V3, which was said to be a counterbalanced version of the Tensei White. The Orange being released by MRC has a completely different profile than the white. Just curious how to square this circle. Is the one being released closer to the V2? Was the V3 never really a CB white, but a different shaft altogether? Or what.. anyone know?

This thread is a year old. Profiles change, things evolve, etc. To answer your question, the Pro Orange was said to be a counterbanced pro white in terms of PERFORMANCE. As in launch and spin characteristics, nobody ever said they have the same precise EI profile. That statement is still generally true.

I have no idea what the age of the thread has to do with it. As far as I know MRC has only released one Tensei orange to the public. That's the one that was being referred to in he thread.. correct me if I'm wrong.

And I've never heard of shafts being referred to as the same because hey have similar launch characteristics. I might launch and spin X100s the same as PX 6.5s: they aren't the same. And as everyone knows on this site, launch and spin vary swing to swing, so why anyone would use that as the identifier for a shaft is strange.

First off JT is on vacation this week so I doubt he will log on before Monday. I believe JT's point was, the Pro Orange was a prototype not yet released to the public when this thread was made. Companies make alterations to profiles all the time and you can't take a comment based on prototypes and then, a year later, try to scrutinize that comment based on things that became facts over that period of time. The profile of Pro Orange changed many times over it's evolution of prototypes from V1 to V2, to a couple different iterations of V3 before the final version was released to the public. We do EI graphing and extensive testing of anything JT would comment on, so if he made a comment, at that moment in time, it was certainly 100% correct. If that profile took an evolution that changed that made the comment slightly off, that's hardly something you can criticize someone on a year later, out of context. Hopefully that clears up any confusion you might have. -Keith
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#65 J13

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

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#66 noodle3872

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:39 PM

View PostJ13, on 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

If it came in stiff flex I would agree however at this time it doesn’t so the Pro Orange owns my heart.
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#67 mtg

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:01 PM

View PostGreenGrassEvaluations, on 12 October 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

View Postmtg, on 09 October 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 09 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postmtg, on 08 October 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Earlier in this thread it was stated that the Orange being released to the broader public is the V3, which was said to be a counterbalanced version of the Tensei White. The Orange being released by MRC has a completely different profile than the white. Just curious how to square this circle. Is the one being released closer to the V2? Was the V3 never really a CB white, but a different shaft altogether? Or what.. anyone know?

This thread is a year old. Profiles change, things evolve, etc. To answer your question, the Pro Orange was said to be a counterbanced pro white in terms of PERFORMANCE. As in launch and spin characteristics, nobody ever said they have the same precise EI profile. That statement is still generally true.

I have no idea what the age of the thread has to do with it. As far as I know MRC has only released one Tensei orange to the public. That's the one that was being referred to in he thread.. correct me if I'm wrong.

And I've never heard of shafts being referred to as the same because hey have similar launch characteristics. I might launch and spin X100s the same as PX 6.5s: they aren't the same. And as everyone knows on this site, launch and spin vary swing to swing, so why anyone would use that as the identifier for a shaft is strange.

First off JT is on vacation this week so I doubt he will log on before Monday. I believe JT's point was, the Pro Orange was a prototype not yet released to the public when this thread was made. Companies make alterations to profiles all the time and you can't take a comment based on prototypes and then, a year later, try to scrutinize that comment based on things that became facts over that period of time. The profile of Pro Orange changed many times over it's evolution of prototypes from V1 to V2, to a couple different iterations of V3 before the final version was released to the public. We do EI graphing and extensive testing of anything JT would comment on, so if he made a comment, at that moment in time, it was certainly 100% correct. If that profile took an evolution that changed that made the comment slightly off, that's hardly something you can criticize someone on a year later, out of context. Hopefully that clears up any confusion you might have. -Keith
All I'm saying is you can't both be right. One person is making fairly unequivocal remarks about soon to be released shafts. Then when those comments turn out to be wrong you just claim, "oh profiles change, prototypes are just prototypes." Well then don't tell people things you can't be sure of.

In case you need to see his comment again, here it is.

View PostTollBros, on 09 December 2016 - 02:57 AM, said:

You're welcome. As for orange, if released it will be V3, which is a cb version of white, and is the shaft Fowler plays. V2 will remain Tour only.

What's really funny is I was just posting this to the forum to get some good answers. Since what was claimed was logically impossible I just wanted to know what the old V3 prototype was. Maybe it was a counterbalanced White and MRC changed it before release. Maybe the orange being released wasn't the V3 at all, but something closer to the V2. All i knew was that the one available commercially isn't a counterbalanced white and since I am interested in this minutia and might actually buy an Orange at some point I wanted to get to the bottom of it. He came back with all the defensiveness. Just admit you made a mistake.. and learn from it. Its really not a big deal.

One other note, how on earth is my question out of context? It seems pretty smack dab in the middle of context to me.

Edited by mtg, 12 October 2017 - 11:14 PM.

Epic SZ | MATRIX SPEED RULZ TYPE C 60TX TIPPED 1"
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Srixon 565 4i; 945 5-PW | MODUS 120X
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#68 mtg

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:27 PM

View Postnoodle3872, on 10 October 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

I guess the confusion is your description of the Orange V3 as a counter balanced version of the Pro White.  It's not quite that literal.  The Pro Orange, formerly the V3, bend profile is stiffer in the tip and has a softer butt section than the Pro White.  Add in the counter balancing of the Pro Orange and it changes how the shaft feels while under load.  I have both the Pro Orange (V3) and the Pro White.  The White feels softer in my hands compared to the Pro Orange which is contrary to the EI profile MCA provides.  Furthermore, the Pro Orange feels like it loads more uniformly along the length of the shaft.  Both are amazing shaft that are low launch/low spin but they accomplish it with different materials, bend profiles and "feels".

Didn't catch this the first time: the MCA profile is confirmed by other independent tests I've seen, the butt on the orange is softer and tip stiffer. I like to hear that it doesn't feel overly soft in the hands though. Thanks for the feedback.

Edited by mtg, 12 October 2017 - 11:28 PM.

Epic SZ | MATRIX SPEED RULZ TYPE C 60TX TIPPED 1"
Titleist 917 F2 | KURO KAGE XM 70TX
Mizuno MP18 Fli-Hi 19* | KBS HYBRID PROTO 85X
Srixon 565 4i; 945 5-PW | MODUS 120X
Vokey SM6 50, 54, 59 | S400 TI
Tour Edge DG Tour Proto v1.2

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#69 mulliganman30

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:26 AM

View PostJ13, on 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

Whats the difference in tx flex and stiff flex?  Did Mitsubishi decide not to bring this to the market?  Doesnt really matter but Im curious being I saw Summer 2017 listed before but that didnt happen....

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#70 leejohnkieh

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:35 AM

View Postmulliganman30, on 14 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

Whats the difference in tx flex and stiff flex?  Did Mitsubishi decide not to bring this to the market?  Doesnt really matter but Im curious being I saw Summer 2017 listed before but that didnt happen....

MRC never released a stiff flex for the DC XT (only a TX flex).  So when you see a stiff flex know that it is just the basic KK DC Silver.  Now that the XD version is out, you can get the same exotic profile in just about any flex.

Edited by leejohnkieh, 14 June 2018 - 11:35 AM.

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#71 mulliganman30

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:51 AM

View Postleejohnkieh, on 14 June 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

View Postmulliganman30, on 14 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

Whats the difference in tx flex and stiff flex?  Did Mitsubishi decide not to bring this to the market?  Doesnt really matter but Im curious being I saw Summer 2017 listed before but that didnt happen....

MRC never released a stiff flex for the DC XT (only a TX flex).  So when you see a stiff flex know that it is just the basic KK DC Silver.  Now that the XD version is out, you can get the same exotic profile in just about any flex.

Were there any testing results on the XD posted here like in th3 "big bad" thread that Im not seeing

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#72 leejohnkieh

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:25 PM

View Postmulliganman30, on 14 June 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 14 June 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

View Postmulliganman30, on 14 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

View PostJ13, on 12 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Doesn't matter because the Kuro Kage DC XT is where it's at ;)

Whats the difference in tx flex and stiff flex?  Did Mitsubishi decide not to bring this to the market?  Doesnt really matter but Im curious being I saw Summer 2017 listed before but that didnt happen....

MRC never released a stiff flex for the DC XT (only a TX flex).  So when you see a stiff flex know that it is just the basic KK DC Silver.  Now that the XD version is out, you can get the same exotic profile in just about any flex.

Were there any testing results on the XD posted here like in th3 "big bad" thread that Im not seeing

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