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Comparison-- Tensei Orange V2, Kuro Kage Dual Core XT, Tensei Pro White


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#1 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:25 PM

Full disclosure, I am part of a test panel for OEM's on prototype and pre production product. We test and hit the mass majority of high end and name product in the market place before most of you ever see it. We offer feedback and data to the manufacturers, presumably so they can make alterations or final decisions on shaft profiles, wedge or iron designs, driver cg's, etc. The perk of this job is that we get to hit, and often times have access to products long before they ever hit store shelves. The negative is lots of blisters and a sore back. :) I get questions on prototype shafts a lot, so I figured I would help clarify on some of the hottest current profiles. Because I am employeed, I have cleared this post with my boss, and have also been told that I cannot supply a lot of raw data, because honestly, that's why we still have jobs doing this. :)


Shaft Name: Mitsubishi Tensei Pro Orange V2

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Tensei Orange V2 launches very much like the Tensei Pro Blue model, however the spin rate is very much like Tensei Pro White. For those of you who have not hit white or blue, blue is similar to blueboard profile and white is simliar to whiteboard profile. Tensei White is considered one of the top 2-3 lowest spinning shafts on the market, and Tensei Blue is considered to be one of the smoothest shafts on the market. Orange V2 combines those attributes.

Load Characteristics: V2 is very tip stiff, but because of the kevlar butt section, feels very very smooth without ever feeling demanding or as if it will not turn over. It has, what I have read called a linear load property, which I think perfectly describes it. It's as if the entire shaft is working in concert, not disconnected, as in overly tip stiff, overly loose in the mid section, etc. It's a very connected feeling shaft.

Balance Characteristics: V2 is slightly more counterbalanced than Tensei White, about 4 grams or so to achieve the same swingweight, but this offers two advantages. One is, more weight in the handle generally means slightly more swing speed, and more weight in the head means higher MOI and marginally higher ball speed. Nearly every player seems to pick up ball speed with this shaft.

Intended Player: The only player precluded from using this profile would be those with a very quick tempo or violent transition. For example, I doubt Nick Price or Jason Day would much like V2 orange. You don't have to velvet smooth to play V2, but it does tend to work best for players with an even tempo and load, regardless of swing speed.

Overall Analysis: If high launch, low spin, and increased ball speed are what you are after, you won't find a better shaft than Orange V2. As long as you aren't shotgun fast in transition, it is very accurate, easy to work both ways, and never feels as if you need to stand on it to get maximum results. If there is a definition of the shaft working for the player, this is it. One other great thing is that almost every tester seems to pick up 3-5 mph in ball speed with this shaft.


Shaft Name: Kuro Kage Dual Core XT

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Dual Core XT is the new version of XT that will come out some time in the summer of 2017. Launch and spin with this shaft can really be altered with tipping. It gets stiff very quickly the more you tip it. Moreso than most other profiles. At like tipping, compared to current model XT, it is a similar launch and as much as 500rpm less spin. It is also lower spin than Tensei Pro White, which was the previously lowest spin profile our group had tested. Launch is pretty similar overall to Tensei White, maybe ½ degree lower on average. If you struggle with very high spin, this shaft is the beginning and the end for you.

Load Characteristics: This shaft is a shaft that almost any player can play because of the smooth feel of the profile, but even the most aggressive of players won't find this shaft to get loose on them. It is, what my boss calls, an attack profile. Meaning you can go at it as hard as you want and it will stand up to whatever you deliver. There is a reason Rory McIlroy, Jason Day, and Brooks Koepka have been testing and in some cases playing this exact profile for the last couple of months.

Balance Characteristics: Dual Core XT is very similar to the current model in terms of balance, which is a bit more tip heavy than the Tensei Pro profiles. It will appeal to the player who likes more of a HZRDUS black type balance, ie more tip heavy.

Intended Player: Any player struggling with high spin, or a very aggressive player looking for shaft that he can absolutely stand on without worry.

Overall Analysis: A great shaft, similar in performance to Tensei Pro White, but with a different type of feel and balance. Ultra low spin without being ultra low launch. One of our guys first comment was, “this thing is going to make M2 a bigger monster than it already is.”


Shaft Name: Tensei Pro White

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Tensei White is what I would call a mid launch, low spin product. Before Dual Core XT, it was the lowest spin shaft we had ever tested.

Load Characteristics: The kevlar butt section of the Tensei line really takes a shaft that should feel stiff and hard to swing, and turns it into a very connected and managable feel. Some guys still feel it is a bit stiff to flex, but these players tend to not load the shaft very much at all. Quick transition guys can use Tensei Pro White, but a little more tipping is in order when compared to Dual Core XT.

Balance Characteristics: Tensei Pro White is pretty neutrally balanced, with maybe a hint toward being butt heavier than Dual Core XT, but not much. It will swingweight a couple points heavier than Tensei Pro Orange, with a very similar profile overall.

Intended Player: Well, Justin Rose, Tiger Woods, and Gary Woodland were the guys most famous for putting this shaft in play. All swing 120+ but without super violent transition. That said, all load the shaft pretty hard. It really is a shaft for a guy who brings some speed or is steep and generates a ton of spin.

Overall Analysis: Tensei Pro White is sort of the midline between Dual Core XT and Pro Orange. The feel is sort of in the middle, spin is in the middle as well, although Orange is within 100 or 200 rpm for most players. It is a great profile for those who feel the Orange is too smooth and the Dual Core XT is too tight, but still want massively low spin.

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#2 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:29 PM

Hope this post helps you guys on what can be a confusing choice at times.
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#3 gioguy21

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:30 PM

Thank you! very informative -- appreciate it!

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#4 scratchswinger

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:31 PM

Nice work and thank you :drinks:

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#5 jokerusn

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:38 PM

Very cool.  Thanks!  How would you compare the HZRDUS Black in performance to these?

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#6 farmer

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:41 PM

Very interesting insight on how shafts come to the market.  When you test them, are they in full retail form, ie paint and graphics, or just labeled P1, P2?

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#7 halfsumo

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:42 PM

Well now I have to get the Orange even though I didn't know it existed 5 minutes ago. Thanks.....?
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#8 Roadking_6

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:42 PM

Are you guys hiring?

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#9 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:04 PM

View Postjokerusn, on 08 December 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

Very cool.  Thanks!  How would you compare the HZRDUS Black in performance to these?

HZRDUS Black is even tip heavier and lower launching than these. I don't want to get in trouble for giving too much data but dual core xt will launch higher (1-1.5 degrees) and spin less with similar balance.
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#10 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:06 PM

View Postfarmer, on 08 December 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Very interesting insight on how shafts come to the market.  When you test them, are they in full retail form, ie paint and graphics, or just labeled P1, P2?

We test simultaniously with the Tour. Often times products have no, or very simple graphics early on, but as they become Tour ready, as in allowed to be put into actual tournament play, the oems always like to have a tv recognized graphic or color scheme.

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#11 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:09 PM

 halfsumo, on 08 December 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Well now I have to get the Orange even though I didn't know it existed 5 minutes ago. Thanks.....?

It really is a great shaft. Rickie Fowler just put a version into play this past week.
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#12 tigercolt77

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:11 PM

I want an Orange v2 soooooo bad! Thanks for sharing
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#13 getair23

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:28 PM

Great reviews, thank you.

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#14 starsail85

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:15 PM

Explain to me how a shaft can launch it higher without spinning it more ?
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#15 Harob11

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:20 PM

 TollBros, on 08 December 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Full disclosure, I am part of a test panel for OEM's on prototype and pre production product. We test and hit the mass majority of high end and name product in the market place before most of you ever see it. We offer feedback and data to the manufacturers, presumably so they can make alterations or final decisions on shaft profiles, wedge or iron designs, driver cg's, etc. The perk of this job is that we get to hit, and often times have access to products long before they ever hit store shelves. The negative is lots of blisters and a sore back. :) I get questions on prototype shafts a lot, so I figured I would help clarify on some of the hottest current profiles. Because I am employeed, I have cleared this post with my boss, and have also been told that I cannot supply a lot of raw data, because honestly, that's why we still have jobs doing this. :)


Shaft Name: Mitsubishi Tensei Pro Orange V2

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Tensei Orange V2 launches very much like the Tensei Pro Blue model, however the spin rate is very much like Tensei Pro White. For those of you who have not hit white or blue, blue is similar to blueboard profile and white is simliar to whiteboard profile. Tensei White is considered one of the top 2-3 lowest spinning shafts on the market, and Tensei Blue is considered to be one of the smoothest shafts on the market. Orange V2 combines those attributes.

Load Characteristics: V2 is very tip stiff, but because of the kevlar butt section, feels very very smooth without ever feeling demanding or as if it will not turn over. It has, what I have read called a linear load property, which I think perfectly describes it. It's as if the entire shaft is working in concert, not disconnected, as in overly tip stiff, overly loose in the mid section, etc. It's a very connected feeling shaft.

Balance Characteristics: V2 is slightly more counterbalanced than Tensei White, about 4 grams or so to achieve the same swingweight, but this offers two advantages. One is, more weight in the handle generally means slightly more swing speed, and more weight in the head means higher MOI and marginally higher ball speed. Nearly every player seems to pick up ball speed with this shaft.

Intended Player: The only player precluded from using this profile would be those with a very quick tempo or violent transition. For example, I doubt Nick Price or Jason Day would much like V2 orange. You don't have to velvet smooth to play V2, but it does tend to work best for players with an even tempo and load, regardless of swing speed.

Overall Analysis: If high launch, low spin, and increased ball speed are what you are after, you won't find a better shaft than Orange V2. As long as you aren't shotgun fast in transition, it is very accurate, easy to work both ways, and never feels as if you need to stand on it to get maximum results. If there is a definition of the shaft working for the player, this is it. One other great thing is that almost every tester seems to pick up 3-5 mph in ball speed with this shaft.


Shaft Name: Kuro Kage Dual Core XT

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Dual Core XT is the new version of XT that will come out some time in the summer of 2017. Launch and spin with this shaft can really be altered with tipping. It gets stiff very quickly the more you tip it. Moreso than most other profiles. At like tipping, compared to current model XT, it is a similar launch and as much as 500rpm less spin. It is also lower spin than Tensei Pro White, which was the previously lowest spin profile our group had tested. Launch is pretty similar overall to Tensei White, maybe ½ degree lower on average. If you struggle with very high spin, this shaft is the beginning and the end for you.

Load Characteristics: This shaft is a shaft that almost any player can play because of the smooth feel of the profile, but even the most aggressive of players won't find this shaft to get loose on them. It is, what my boss calls, an attack profile. Meaning you can go at it as hard as you want and it will stand up to whatever you deliver. There is a reason Rory McIlroy, Jason Day, and Brooks Koepka have been testing and in some cases playing this exact profile for the last couple of months.

Balance Characteristics: Dual Core XT is very similar to the current model in terms of balance, which is a bit more tip heavy than the Tensei Pro profiles. It will appeal to the player who likes more of a HZRDUS black type balance, ie more tip heavy.

Intended Player: Any player struggling with high spin, or a very aggressive player looking for shaft that he can absolutely stand on without worry.

Overall Analysis: A great shaft, similar in performance to Tensei Pro White, but with a different type of feel and balance. Ultra low spin without being ultra low launch. One of our guys first comment was, "this thing is going to make M2 a bigger monster than it already is."


Shaft Name: Tensei Pro White

Launch + Spin Characteristics: Tensei White is what I would call a mid launch, low spin product. Before Dual Core XT, it was the lowest spin shaft we had ever tested.

Load Characteristics: The kevlar butt section of the Tensei line really takes a shaft that should feel stiff and hard to swing, and turns it into a very connected and managable feel. Some guys still feel it is a bit stiff to flex, but these players tend to not load the shaft very much at all. Quick transition guys can use Tensei Pro White, but a little more tipping is in order when compared to Dual Core XT.

Balance Characteristics: Tensei Pro White is pretty neutrally balanced, with maybe a hint toward being butt heavier than Dual Core XT, but not much. It will swingweight a couple points heavier than Tensei Pro Orange, with a very similar profile overall.

Intended Player: Well, Justin Rose, Tiger Woods, and Gary Woodland were the guys most famous for putting this shaft in play. All swing 120+ but without super violent transition. That said, all load the shaft pretty hard. It really is a shaft for a guy who brings some speed or is steep and generates a ton of spin.

Overall Analysis: Tensei Pro White is sort of the midline between Dual Core XT and Pro Orange. The feel is sort of in the middle, spin is in the middle as well, although Orange is within 100 or 200 rpm for most players. It is a great profile for those who feel the Orange is too smooth and the Dual Core XT is too tight, but still want massively low spin.

What a fantastic post, thanks very much!

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#16 Oldboy

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:38 PM

thanks for this

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#17 crazyray

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:53 PM

I got an orange recently for the sake of curiosity, but seeing as how my golf swing is as violent as a car crash, I'm assuming I'll end up with a new XT by the time mid season comes

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#18 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:01 PM

 crazyray, on 08 December 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I got an orange recently for the sake of curiosity, but seeing as how my golf swing is as violent as a car crash, I'm assuming I'll end up with a new XT by the time mid season comes

Don't discount it just because you have a fast transition, as long as you have a late release. The guys who really hold the angle deep sometimes still like it. It's those guys who are fast in tempo and really crank up on it that tend to spray it. But ultimately there's no way to tell other than trying it. My review is just a guideline and is by no means an absolute. I know there is one long drive guy that plays it, so there are always the anomalies.

Edited by TollBros, 08 December 2016 - 04:02 PM.

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#19 getair23

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:57 PM

Is the Orange available yet?

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#20 Stonebridge

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:22 PM

 TollBros, on 08 December 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

 crazyray, on 08 December 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I got an orange recently for the sake of curiosity, but seeing as how my golf swing is as violent as a car crash, I'm assuming I'll end up with a new XT by the time mid season comes

Don't discount it just because you have a fast transition, as long as you have a late release. The guys who really hold the angle deep sometimes still like it. It's those guys who are fast in tempo and really crank up on it that tend to spray it. But ultimately there's no way to tell other than trying it. My review is just a guideline and is by no means an absolute. I know there is one long drive guy that plays it, so there are always the anomalies.
Would you tip the Dual Core XT the same as the Pro White? I currently have a Pro White 80 TX tipped 1 inch in the driver. What are the shaft weights in the 70 & 80? Thank you for your time to provide such a detailed report!


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#21 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:29 PM

View PostStonebridge, on 08 December 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 08 December 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

View Postcrazyray, on 08 December 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I got an orange recently for the sake of curiosity, but seeing as how my golf swing is as violent as a car crash, I'm assuming I'll end up with a new XT by the time mid season comes

Don't discount it just because you have a fast transition, as long as you have a late release. The guys who really hold the angle deep sometimes still like it. It's those guys who are fast in tempo and really crank up on it that tend to spray it. But ultimately there's no way to tell other than trying it. My review is just a guideline and is by no means an absolute. I know there is one long drive guy that plays it, so there are always the anomalies.
Would you tip the Dual Core XT the same as the Pro White? I currently have a Pro White 80 TX tipped 1 inch in the driver. What are the shaft weights in the 70 & 80? Thank you for your time to provide such a detailed report!

Dual core XT we are tipping about 1/2 inch less than pro white. And I'm not sure I understand the other part of your question.
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#22 Peanut191

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:05 PM

Excellent information.  Will any of the Orange versions be coming out to market?
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#23 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:17 PM

View PostPeanut191, on 08 December 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

Excellent information.  Will any of the Orange versions be coming out to market?

It is possible that some variation of V3 or another evolution could make it out sometime in summer of 2017. I'd say it's highly possible from what I know. I can, however, safely say v2 will remain Tour only indefinitely.

Edited by TollBros, 09 December 2016 - 02:56 AM.

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#24 Mob

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:19 PM

Great information, thanks.
Callaway Epic 9 degrees with Tensei Pro Orange 60 stiff shaft (Testing Cobra F8+ with Tensei Pro Orange 60 stiff shaft)
Callaway Rogue SZ 15 degree with Diamana X Limited 70 stiff shaft
Ping Anser  23 hybrid with Veylix Rome 988 shafts
P790 3 iron with Steelfiber 110cw stiff shaft
Callaway Apex Pro 5-PW irons with Steelfiber 110cw stiff shafts
Yururi Tataki 50.5, 56.5, and 60.5 with Accra Tour 105 shafts soft-stepped X2
SeeMore Z3c center shafted putter

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#25 beluga99

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 08:03 PM

Thanks TollBros.  Wonderful post and great info.  Sounds like you have a terrific job.

G400 9
917 F2
i25 5W
MC-18 4-P
Glide 50, 56, 60 ES
Yes!

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#26 TollBros

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 08:29 PM

Anyone is welcome to pm me about tipping info if they have any questions.
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#27 My2Dogs

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 01:48 AM

View Postgetair23, on 08 December 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Is the Orange available yet?


I asked the company and they wrote me back stating they are working on finalizing the Tensei Orange and are set for a Spring 2017 release to the public.


Thanks for the write up Tollbros as this was a great write up about the shafts as I was confused on the characteristics of each shaft and what type of player would benefit the most.  


Driver:  Callaway Rogue with Hzdrus TT1100
3 wood: Tour Edge Exotics CBX Matrix 8M2 X-Flex 13*
PXG Hybrid 19* Veylix Rome 988 X Flex
PXG 4i 0311X Gen2 Driving Iron C Taper 120 X Flex
5-PW PXG Gen2   C Taper 120 X Flex
Miura 1957 50* Gap Wedge
Renegar 54* bent to 55* SW
Callaway MD PM 60*
Odyessey O-Works #9 35"

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#28 TollBros

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 02:57 AM

View PostMy2Dogs, on 09 December 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

View Postgetair23, on 08 December 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Is the Orange available yet?


I asked the company and they wrote me back stating they are working on finalizing the Tensei Orange and are set for a Spring 2017 release to the public.


Thanks for the write up Tollbros as this was a great write up about the shafts as I was confused on the characteristics of each shaft and what type of player would benefit the most.  

You're welcome. As for orange, if released it will be V3, which is a cb version of white, and is the shaft Fowler plays. V2 will remain Tour only.
http://www.golfwrx.c...evaluationscom/

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#29 TitleistHOG

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 06:26 AM

What about KK silver tini dual core comparison

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#30 adam2883

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:21 AM

View PostTollBros, on 09 December 2016 - 02:57 AM, said:

View PostMy2Dogs, on 09 December 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

View Postgetair23, on 08 December 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Is the Orange available yet?


I asked the company and they wrote me back stating they are working on finalizing the Tensei Orange and are set for a Spring 2017 release to the public.


Thanks for the write up Tollbros as this was a great write up about the shafts as I was confused on the characteristics of each shaft and what type of player would benefit the most.  

You're welcome. As for orange, if released it will be V3, which is a cb version of white, and is the shaft Fowler plays. V2 will remain Tour only.

Love the Orange V2, I've had it in my driver for almost 2 months now, came from the Pro White and as you have said it feels a lot smoother and while the white worked well for me, the V2 fits my swing a lot better. I currently have a 70TX Pro Blue in my 3 wood, have zero complaints with the way it performs other than it feels a little light in my 3 wood(tour issue m2), thinking about moving to an 80g version. I have the opportunity to get my hands on a Orange 80TX V3 as well, how do you think it would compare to the blue in terms of being in a 3wood?

Driver: 2017 Tour Issue Taylormade M1 8.5 w/Tour AD TP 7X
3 Wood: 2016 Tour Issue Taylormade M2 w/ Tensei Pro Blue 70TX
Hybrid: PXG 0317 17* w/ HC Project X Even Flow Black 85g 6.5
Irons: Taylormade UDI 3 iron w/ GD Tour AD DI 105x
          Mizuno MP-18 MMC 4-9 iron w/Project X 6.5
Wedges: Vokey SM7 RAW 46-52-58 w/Project X 6.0
Putter: Custom made Slighter Protoype


Short games don't matter if you hit better approach shots

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