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Fitting Tall Golfers With NO Chart or Preconceived Ideas!


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#391 CheckJV

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for the update Rybo.  Interesting stuff.


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#392 bigseanc12

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:19 PM

I have been playing a +1.75" iron set for about a year now to much better results.  I am also very interested in trying the one length irons as I have played casual rounds with a few college golfers my same size (6'5") that are loving them.

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#393 rybo

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:36 PM

http://www.golfwrx.c...e-an-advantage/

All six of his ‘findings’ have to do with clubs that are too short!  



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#394 reider69

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 01:53 PM

Does Mizuno use lighter weight heads in overlength wedges?  I bought a pair of MP T7 wedges at 3/4 over and they do feel lighter than my former Cleveland wedges at 1 inch over.  I am using CTLX shafts in my Mizunos but had DG wedge flex in Clevelands.

Another questing Rybo....I had my wedges set at 2 degrees upright(my WTF is 36.5, I am 6'6 with a 80 inch wingspan...very long arms) and they don't feel right.  2 degrees up feels right for my irons but with wedges the toe sticks off the ground and shortens the club imo.  Should I have them bent back to standard?  Thanks in advance for your opinions!
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#395 03SMURF

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:06 PM

View Postreider69, on 10 November 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Does Mizuno use lighter weight heads in overlength wedges?  I bought a pair of MP T7 wedges at 3/4 over and they do feel lighter than my former Cleveland wedges at 1 inch over.  I am using CTLX shafts in my Mizunos but had DG wedge flex in Clevelands.

Another questing Rybo....I had my wedges set at 2 degrees upright(my WTF is 36.5, I am 6'6 with a 80 inch wingspan...very long arms) and they don't feel right.  2 degrees up feels right for my irons but with wedges the toe sticks off the ground and shortens the club imo.  Should I have them bent back to standard?  Thanks in advance for your opinions!

I play my wedges flatter than my irons, FWIW. Mizuno has lighter iron heads for overlength irons but I’m unsure about their wedges.

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#396 rsballer10

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:52 AM

View Postrybo, on 03 September 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

UPDATE

Two months ago I tried a set of Cobra One length irons and my variable length irons have not been touched since!  This has truly been one of the best things I have ever come across in all of my years of building and trying various clubs.  For me it has simplified the game, swing, scoring, etc.

I had already spent a lot of time finding the absolute shortest length I could use for the lob and sand wedges, and 37.25" & 64.75* are the absolute minimums FOR ME.  

So here is what I am playing:


Cobra F7 and One Length wedges

L, S, G = 37.25" & 64.75*
6-P = 37.5" & 64.5*
5 = 37.75" & 64.25*

4 iron is from a VL set and is 39" & 62.75* (Callaway X Hot N-14)

Wedges have C-Taper S+ tip trimmed 6.5", very close to 7 iron trimming
Irons have Steelfiber i110 X tip trimmed to 8 iron specs
4 iron has a Project X Flighted 6.5 tip trimmed to 4 iron specs

The Cobra heads weigh 270 grams.  The lob and sand wedge heads weigh 272g.  Wedge have additional 8g tip weights.  They were just too light for what I had already become accustom to when drilling out material.


I have also made an adjustment to the driver length that was needed due to a swing change that occurred from using the single length irons.  My swing was very much a two plane type swing, but has naturally gravitated to more of a modified one plane swing.  While the over length fairway woods have performed fine with the swing change, driver performance was awful.  I just wasn't presenting the face of the club to the ball the same way.  I've settled in at 45 3/8" at the moment.  Playing a Tensei Orange 70 TX tipped 1" with a 2014 Great Big Bertha with two sliding weights and a 10 gram weight.  Total headweight at 208g.   (I'm on my 3rd Epic SubZero as the heads keep breaking!  Epic SZ has been sidelined)


I also have a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons that came +3/4" with the standard KBS X flex 130g shafts.  They are simply too heavy for me and will be rebuilt.  They will be rebuilt with 1/8" steps as I still really want to try this set up.  The head weights will varied by 2g gaps with tip weights ie..5 iron 270g, 6 iron 272g, 7 iron 274g, etc.  Likely will go with C-Taper for this set.  I also plan on making these a bit longer overall then the F7's. Probably start 5 iron at 38 1/4" and work the length down in 1/8" increments from there.

I have picked up distance, something I was not after at all, but the accuracy gains I am having with the SL set up has blown me away.  I have had more rounds in the 60's in the past 4 weeks then I have had in a very long time and this is with a bulky putter on very slow, wet, Florida summer greens.  The game has become easier.  Practice is so much more focused.

Not saying I will never use a true VL set again, but there is nothing making me think or want to go back to them.

I'm starting to think the classic VL set isn't a good ideas for us tall folks who need length. My predicament is that I love the old STD length when it comes to the 3-6 irons, but those shorter wedges are no good for approach shots. So last week I re-shafted my irons to +1 (38.75" 5i) and of course, wedges are better but now the long irons suck.

So I sat down with a piece of paper and started with a 37 3/4 5i and came up with this:

5i : 37 3/4
6i : 37 3/8
7i : 37
8i : 36 5/8
9-Wedges : 36 1/4

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#397 rybo

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 11:11 AM

View Postreider69, on 10 November 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Does Mizuno use lighter weight heads in overlength wedges?  I bought a pair of MP T7 wedges at 3/4 over and they do feel lighter than my former Cleveland wedges at 1 inch over.  I am using CTLX shafts in my Mizunos but had DG wedge flex in Clevelands.

Another questing Rybo....I had my wedges set at 2 degrees upright(my WTF is 36.5, I am 6'6 with a 80 inch wingspan...very long arms) and they don't feel right.  2 degrees up feels right for my irons but with wedges the toe sticks off the ground and shortens the club imo.  Should I have them bent back to standard?  Thanks in advance for your opinions!

Mizuno does use lighter weight heads for wedges, they are only 7 grams lighter though.  Not nearly enough to get the longer lengths needed.


As for the wedges, if you've spent any time with a bending machine working on various clubs, you'll notice the sole grind (bounce and camber) lets say does not always line up with the grooves.  Think parallel lines that are not parallel.  So even though the wedges are only 2* up like the irons the sole may have more material removed from the heel side.  Sometimes this is referred to as heel relief. When this club is placed on the ground the toe can sit a bit higher.  It's not good or bad just something to be aware of.  This same issue seems to occur with the long irons also, usually around the 5 & 6 iron, seems the bending machine adjustment for getting the grooves parallel always has to be adjusted as the set goes into the long irons.  Generally speaking the wedges are shorter from heel to toe and this can also play into how the club sits.  

It's very possible to have two sets with identical specs (loft and lie) sit behind the ball completely differently.   Hogan removed a lot of material from the backside of the heel to have his irons sit open.

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#398 rybo

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 11:43 AM

View Postrsballer10, on 11 November 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 03 September 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

UPDATE

Two months ago I tried a set of Cobra One length irons and my variable length irons have not been touched since!  This has truly been one of the best things I have ever come across in all of my years of building and trying various clubs.  For me it has simplified the game, swing, scoring, etc.

I had already spent a lot of time finding the absolute shortest length I could use for the lob and sand wedges, and 37.25" & 64.75* are the absolute minimums FOR ME.  

So here is what I am playing:


Cobra F7 and One Length wedges

L, S, G = 37.25" & 64.75*
6-P = 37.5" & 64.5*
5 = 37.75" & 64.25*

4 iron is from a VL set and is 39" & 62.75* (Callaway X Hot N-14)

Wedges have C-Taper S+ tip trimmed 6.5", very close to 7 iron trimming
Irons have Steelfiber i110 X tip trimmed to 8 iron specs
4 iron has a Project X Flighted 6.5 tip trimmed to 4 iron specs

The Cobra heads weigh 270 grams.  The lob and sand wedge heads weigh 272g.  Wedge have additional 8g tip weights.  They were just too light for what I had already become accustom to when drilling out material.


I have also made an adjustment to the driver length that was needed due to a swing change that occurred from using the single length irons.  My swing was very much a two plane type swing, but has naturally gravitated to more of a modified one plane swing.  While the over length fairway woods have performed fine with the swing change, driver performance was awful.  I just wasn't presenting the face of the club to the ball the same way.  I've settled in at 45 3/8" at the moment.  Playing a Tensei Orange 70 TX tipped 1" with a 2014 Great Big Bertha with two sliding weights and a 10 gram weight.  Total headweight at 208g.   (I'm on my 3rd Epic SubZero as the heads keep breaking!  Epic SZ has been sidelined)


I also have a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons that came +3/4" with the standard KBS X flex 130g shafts.  They are simply too heavy for me and will be rebuilt.  They will be rebuilt with 1/8" steps as I still really want to try this set up.  The head weights will varied by 2g gaps with tip weights ie..5 iron 270g, 6 iron 272g, 7 iron 274g, etc.  Likely will go with C-Taper for this set.  I also plan on making these a bit longer overall then the F7's. Probably start 5 iron at 38 1/4" and work the length down in 1/8" increments from there.

I have picked up distance, something I was not after at all, but the accuracy gains I am having with the SL set up has blown me away.  I have had more rounds in the 60's in the past 4 weeks then I have had in a very long time and this is with a bulky putter on very slow, wet, Florida summer greens.  The game has become easier.  Practice is so much more focused.

Not saying I will never use a true VL set again, but there is nothing making me think or want to go back to them.

I'm starting to think the classic VL set isn't a good ideas for us tall folks who need length. My predicament is that I love the old STD length when it comes to the 3-6 irons, but those shorter wedges are no good for approach shots. So last week I re-shafted my irons to +1 (38.75" 5i) and of course, wedges are better but now the long irons suck.

So I sat down with a piece of paper and started with a 37 3/4 5i and came up with this:

5i : 37 3/4
6i : 37 3/8
7i : 37
8i : 36 5/8
9-Wedges : 36 1/4

Since playing single length and with the various smaller increment builds in the past, the traditional 1/2" spacing between irons just makes no sense to ME.  Distances don't change from club to club and the spacing makes swinging with a similar swing more difficult with standard clubs that have 4" of spacing (35" wedge to 39" long iron).  With that said I do think for tall golfers a combo set with single length short irons, wedges through say 7 or 8 iron, and VL long irons, 4 - 6 irons, may be a better build.  While I am not having any issues with distance or accuracy with the SL long irons, I simply do not swing a 4, 5 or 6 iron like I do a wedge or short iron and at times the clubs just feel incredibly short. 35 years of playing overlength clubs doesn't help when the long irons get 1 1/2" - 2" shorter then what you are used to!

I have been slacking and never rebuilt the other set with 1/8" increments.  1/4" spacing in the long irons might be good too.  May have to use VL heads for the long irons along with some tip weights to get the feel to be correct but is surely doable. I've been building my SL wedges and short irons to 280g total (270g heads +10g tip weights), so there is 10g there to play with and can easily get the long irons an additional 3/4" longer with no issues.  Again, haven't done this yet which shows the SL clubs are doing fine!  

Along this same lines, one of the things the vertically challenged people love when they try my clubs are the long irons, they find them much easier to hit just as tall people generally find the short irons easier to hit.  Both of these scenarios lend credence to traditional 1/2" spacing may be too much for everyone!  They could easily go the opposite route and use VL heads for the short irons and SL heads for the long irons.

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#399 rsballer10

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:27 PM

I really think if someone was to start from scratch and design a new "standard" length set, the progressions would be different than just 1/2". Loft is the primary determinant of distance, length contributes but to a lesser extent. I do think there should be length progressions, because i still think we should be generating more CH speed with the woods and long irons than wedges. I think most people would benefit with smaller increments towards the bottom end of the set, and longer increments in the woods and driver.

Right now most manufacturers are going 1/2" across the board. Even in woods... which for me, makes a 5w and 3w very similar in distance.


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#400 rybo

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:25 PM

Your 3W and 5W should definitely be going different distances.  1/2" length difference is having little to no effect on distance, loft still dominates total distance.

1/2" iron increments are just too convenient!  It's certainly not based on anything to do with the relationship of length to lie angle!  If it was 3/8" increments would be used as it gets very close to 1/2* change in lie angle.

I often wonder about DeChambeau's comments about the first time he saw Bobby Jones' clubs. He said they were essentially all the same length.  Which means they were not one length but very close from shortest to longest.


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#401 rsballer10

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:05 PM

They don't go the same distance, they just are too close together...one day I hit a couple tee balls with each just to see and it was only 10 or so yards between them...

I wouldn't be surprised if bobby Jones had close to SL irons. I do know they were MOI matched (not intentionally, I believe bobby just went by feel and that's what he ended up with).

It's in power golf by Ben hogan, towards the beginning of the book. Apparently the 8-iron/niblick was the only iron that had a different MOI, and Bobby's response was he struggled the most with that club.

Edited by rsballer10, 11 November 2017 - 02:05 PM.


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#402 Sean2

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.
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#403 rybo

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:48 PM

View PostSean2, on 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.

Callaway is about the only company that has no issue adding more length if you need it.  I called them years ago about bending a set of X Tours more upright and they were like just make the clubs longer!!

Their fitting chart is one of the few that shows +2"; the only issue is their WTF measurement stops at 38".  Most people over 6' 4" have WTF's that are longer then 38".

http://www.callawayg...s/#fittingChart

13

#404 Sean2

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:09 PM

View Postrybo, on 11 November 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.

Callaway is about the only company that has no issue adding more length if you need it.  I called them years ago about bending a set of X Tours more upright and they were like just make the clubs longer!!

Their fitting chart is one of the few that shows +2"; the only issue is their WTF measurement stops at 38".  Most people over 6' 4" have WTF's that are longer then 38".

http://www.callawayg...s/#fittingChart

I think that is where a good fitter comes into play. Another issue with extended lengths is swing weight. I once had a set of irons that were E8...I wondered why they felt a bit "heavy". lol
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14

#405 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:04 AM

View PostSean2, on 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.


I think Tom made an excellent point on the whole "length" deal when he referenced your driver question over in the topic on the instruction forum a couple of weeks back.

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#406 rybo

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:57 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 November 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.


I think Tom made an excellent point on the whole "length" deal when he referenced your driver question over in the topic on the instruction forum a couple of weeks back.

Well it's good to know Callaway is wrong too!!



(LOL......just don't understand some people)

Edited by rybo, 15 November 2017 - 02:58 PM.


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#407 bladehunter

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:35 PM

if you arent over 6ft1 or 2 you arent likely to get it .....  I just shafted a new set of irons today for myself.....  my specs are set in stone and that makes it easy to do ..BUT i had ants in my pants and put a standard length wedge shaft in my lob wedge just to "try it out" while i waited for the new wedge shafts to show up,, huge mistake.. i couldnt hit the damn thing....  after 3 fat shots and 2 skulls that flew 150 yards i quit.... causes me to dive down at the ball... and you cannot judge strike that way .......  correct shafts showed up..i built the wedges and hit them this morning before i shafted the irons and poof.. perfect contact ...love the new heads... length for me is just as important as lie angle or shaft flex...
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#408 Golfrnut

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:06 PM

View Postrybo, on 15 November 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 November 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 11 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 16 November 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.

What is your WTF?

I don't know my wrist to floor.

Since I posted this, I had a fitting at Callaway HQ in Carlsbad, CA. It turns out my previous fittings were a bit off: from +1-inches and 3º upright, to +2-inches and 2º upright for irons and wedges. +1 inch for a hybrid and +0.5 inches for fairway woods.

I asked him about getting a shorter driver length (standard 45.5 inches). He said that a 45.5 inch driver for me is like a 43.5 inch driver for the "standard" person. The fitter also put me in stiff shafts, with the exception of the driver.

I have definitely noticed a difference. I don't feel hunched over the ball like I did before. I could relate to those "before/after" photos in this thread. And, I a hitting the ball better. This has been my best season thus far.


I think Tom made an excellent point on the whole "length" deal when he referenced your driver question over in the topic on the instruction forum a couple of weeks back.

Well it's good to know Callaway is wrong too!!



(LOL......just don't understand some people)


I'm still astonished you can hit your 3 wood or any other club if it's not as long as your driver....

Length of clubs already that long is not much of an issue, the fact that OEMs don't offer much versatility to properly fit a club to a taller player is.  Throwing more length in clubs that are already that long doesn't do the average golfer any favors.  The vast majority of players can't consistently hit the center as is.

I figured you would have recognized on your own the reality of it all considering you, as far as I know, are still playing single length irons.  Your 5 iron at your specs on the previous page is shorter than mine, that should tell you something about the "requirement" for length as you go through the bag.

Edited by Golfrnut, 16 November 2017 - 02:42 AM.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#409 mb123

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:33 PM

fascinating thread of goodness. What does your calculator say for 6'3" with 38 WTF and ~65" shoulder height? I have a set of new shafts and would love to experiment and redo a set of backup clubs I have to see if it would make a difference.

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#410 rybo

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:04 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 15 November 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 15 November 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Well it's good to know Callaway is wrong too!!



(LOL......just don't understand some people)


I'm still astonished you can hit your 3 wood or any other club if it's not as long as your driver....

Length of clubs already that long is not much of an issue, the fact that OEMs don't offer much versatility to properly fit a club to a taller player is.  Throwing more length in clubs that are already that long doesn't do the average golfer any favors.  The vast majority of players can't consistently hit the center as is.

I figured you would have recognized on your own the reality of it all considering you, as far as I know, are still playing single length irons.  Your 5 iron at your specs on the previous page is shorter than mine, that should tell you something about the "requirement" for length as you go through the bag.

I’m still astonished someone who is shorter then the average male is trying to tell people who are in the top 1% for height what length clubs they should be using.  I’m equally astonshied that you think the fitters at Callaway’s headquarters are wrong! You can’t possibly believe yourself with that one. Rory McIlroy who is below average uses 45 1/2”, he must be wrong too. Imagine that everyone is wrong except Golfrnut!

Again we are not average players. We are the extremely tall, 1% of the population on the earth. Our hands are 4”+ higher then the average male. Or 5-6” higher then yours!  

So does your 5 iron head weigh 270g and have a 64.5* lie angle?  And it’s interestig you don’t mention the 6 clubs (8 - LW) that are much longer then your clubs. Continually pushing your little driver agenda on the exceptionally tall is tired and not helping tall people.

Finally if you were being sincere and actually trying to contribute anything useful you would recognize I have stated emphatically tall players need the most help with the too short, irons and wedges.  Or a few posts up where I state when people try my single length clubs that the tall players love the short irons and the short people love the long irons.  But again you have a little driver agenda fits everyone so it’s not a surprise.  

Fitting clubs to an individuals anthropometric dimensions is the best way.  Tall, short and every height!






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#411 rybo

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:11 PM

View Postmb123, on 15 November 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

fascinating thread of goodness. What does your calculator say for 6'3" with 38 WTF and ~65" shoulder height? I have a set of new shafts and would love to experiment and redo a set of backup clubs I have to see if it would make a difference.

You are a great example (6’ 3” with a 38” wtf)  why using the method detailed in post #1 to find your low length limit is so important.

What are the length and line of your current PW?

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#412 SixSixGolf

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:27 PM

Why does Golfrnut even post in this thread? We get it, you don't get it, move along.

Read the whole thread and I'm going for it. Done some preliminary work and I think this could be a solution to my back issues. 6'6" with 39" WTF. Building these:

5 - 40.625
6 - 40.25
7 - 39.875
8 - 39.5
9 - 39.125
P, G, SW, LW - 38.75

Edited by SixSixGolf, 18 November 2017 - 12:27 PM.


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#413 misterness

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 11:07 PM

Thanks for starting the thread Rybo. I have started experimenting with my set with great success! I'm 6'2" and the longer clubs have been the best thing I have ever done for my golf game.

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#414 Golfrnut

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:03 AM

View Postrybo, on 17 November 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 15 November 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

View Postrybo, on 15 November 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Well it's good to know Callaway is wrong too!!



(LOL......just don't understand some people)


I'm still astonished you can hit your 3 wood or any other club if it's not as long as your driver....

Length of clubs already that long is not much of an issue, the fact that OEMs don't offer much versatility to properly fit a club to a taller player is.  Throwing more length in clubs that are already that long doesn't do the average golfer any favors.  The vast majority of players can't consistently hit the center as is.

I figured you would have recognized on your own the reality of it all considering you, as far as I know, are still playing single length irons.  Your 5 iron at your specs on the previous page is shorter than mine, that should tell you something about the "requirement" for length as you go through the bag.

I’m still astonished someone who is shorter then the average male is trying to tell people who are in the top 1% for height what length clubs they should be using.  I’m equally astonshied that you think the fitters at Callaway’s headquarters are wrong! You can’t possibly believe yourself with that one. Rory McIlroy who is below average uses 45 1/2”, he must be wrong too. Imagine that everyone is wrong except Golfrnut!

Well, last I checked Rory is no longer using a 45 1/2" driver, so not sure where that comes into play here.  If you look at the article/video done years ago, it explains how he got to that length as well, and it wasn't anything to do with his height.  He was also 161st in driving accuracy last year and 56th in overall driving.  ;)  Your example also furthers my point, the player's height really doesn't play any factor in a need for length when we get to the driver.  The clubs are already long enough at that length, and in many cases too long.  For every player you can think of that's using a longer driver, I can give you one that's shorter.  That's why we have an average, and one that's below the OEM standard length even though the tour height average is probably above the average human height.  

And yah, if the logic they are using is based on what Sean said in the post above, I do...and it's some of the most flawed logic out there.  There are a lot of other people out there that would say the exact same thing.  But there again, I highly doubt one fitter's opinion is Callaway HQ, or speaks on behalf of everyone there.  25 years ago the standard drivers were 3" shorter than they are now, and there was no movement out there saying they were too short to be played.  Saying that a person that is taller now needs to be longer than a standard that is 3" longer than it was just a short time ago makes absolutely no sense.  That was exactly the point that Tom made in the other thread.  I get it, people don't like hearing information they don't want to hear or agree with, but it's the reality.  The earth isn't flat, but that doesn't keep people from refusing to believe it.

The problem is that the fitter has no way of making the club fit at the shorter length without taking the chance of breaking the club, and since Sean isn't playing on tour, there isn't really going to be any extra steps to make that happen.


Quote

So does your 5 iron head weigh 270g and have a 64.5* lie angle?  And it’s interestig you don’t mention the 6 clubs (8 - LW) that are much longer then your clubs. Continually pushing your little driver agenda on the exceptionally tall is tired and not helping tall people.

Not sure what what head weight would have to do with this.  Not even sure why you would bring that up as it plays no bearing on the topic.  I thought we were both on the same thought process when it came to shorter clubs, no?  Again, my comment was to Sean in regards to what the fitter said regarding the length of his driver.  If you are trying to make a different point I have no idea what that might be?

Quote

Finally if you were being sincere and actually trying to contribute anything useful you would recognize I have stated emphatically tall players need the most help with the too short, irons and wedges.  Or a few posts up where I state when people try my single length clubs that the tall players love the short irons and the short people love the long irons.  But again you have a little driver agenda fits everyone so it’s not a surprise.

In regards to the shorter irons, I don't see any disagreement between you and I.  I think you'll find that we are on the same page.  What I don't agree with is that the longer clubs need to be longer.  We can agree or disagree on that, I'm not really sure at this point.  You have obviously found that a 37.75" 5 iron, with a more upright lie angle works for your height.  That thought process obviously varies a little bit from your initial posts in this thread of having to make all the clubs longer, but potato potato as it works for you.  So why the need to have to go longer than that on other clubs?  Your 4 iron, obviously isn't much longer but you have a more upright lie angle than most yes?  Same can be said for the fairway woods and into the driver.  If you can control a 50" driver, awesome, use it.  But, IMO, there isn't a "need" for it due to height as long as the adjustability of the club makes it so that you can make it works to the taller player at the shorter length.  Shorter clubs, sure, we agree, we can only go so upright in the lie angle, but if the same adjustability was there with a driver we can make them fit just as easy without the additional length.  Tour players can get that, the average player probably can't...which is another sad but true reality.

Edited by Golfrnut, 18 November 2017 - 12:06 AM.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

24

#415 rybo

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:06 AM

View Postmisterness, on 17 November 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

Thanks for starting the thread Rybo. I have started experimenting with my set with great success! I'm 6'2" and the longer clubs have been the best thing I have ever done for my golf game.

You’re welcome!!


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#416 Golfrnut

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:14 AM

Just for clarification...here was the topic I was initially referencing.  Pretty safe bet he has fit way more "taller" people than you, I, or anyone else on this forum combined.  So yes, I respect his opinion on the matter when it comes to the topic.

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry16389020
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#417 rybo

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:46 AM

I really don’t care about anything you have to say.  You are like the old guy screaming at kids to get off his lawn. It’s sad your stuck in what no longer exists.  Please take the phone book off your booster seat and back away from the computer. Tired, boring and not helping.

For those of you who are exceptionally tall and want/need/understand you need longer everything to fit your height, longer clubs will likely help your game. Just like you need different size clothes, bikes, skis, vehicles, etc in every facet of life, longer clubs are needed to fit body proportions. And the exceptionally tall have completely different needs.  

Old article but very telling.
http://www.nytimes.c...iht-golf_6.html

6’ 7” Phil Blackmar does an excellent job explaining the pitfalls of a tall golfer.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=HdEfkWHTquU

Edited by rybo, 18 November 2017 - 07:06 AM.


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#418 rybo

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:56 AM

Only showing this for the silohoutte as it perfectly represents the differences between average height and 6’ 3”. Once these substantial differences in body proportions are understood conventional fitting is rendered useless.

From tallmangolf.com
38F58C9E-040F-4FD0-A3CA-4CFC42A37184.jpeg

(I’m in no way advocating a 6’ 3” golfer add 4” to their PW)

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#419 archer1

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:45 PM

I have acted on the two main tenets in this thread which I consider to be firstly, people shorter than 6' do not understand the world of tall people; and secondly, golf industry fitting norms or standards are irrelevant to those of us 6' or over.

I am 6' 3" with a WTF of 38 1/4" and have often been described as someone whose height is all in my legs. I started playing golf when I was 34 and living in Taiwan (as I am once again doing now). My first, locally acquired irons, a set of very attractive Mr. Lu forged blades, I subsequently realised were too short and too flat. A few years later, when living in Shanghai, I began assembling Golfsmith US sourced components on my dining room table in an attempt to have better fitting clubs. From China I went to live in the southwest of Scotland where there were no club fitters only one or two skilled club repairers. I now had a workshop so continued to experiment with clubs of different lengths. I ended up being positively influenced by Dave Tutelman and Tom Wishon and negatively influenced by knowledgeable yet shorter golfers.

The Tutelman/Wishon influence was in the area of MOI and iron set length progressions. For the past three years I have built my irons with a 6 gram weight difference club to club (poor man's MOI) and length increments of 3/8" with PW, 52 and 58 wedges all the same length.

The negative influence came from listening to people saying my irons were just too long and too heavy.

In March of this year I rebuilt my irons using a softer shaft (DG R300s) and I think they were 1 1/2" longer than an average length.  I relocated to Taiwan in August and in September I began to pay attention to this thread. While I was still playing to my 5 handicap I felt my iron play was too inconsistent for it to be just a swing issue. Given that I no longer have a workshop, and length and shaft testing was not an option, I realised any changes would have to be based on a combination of logic and other's experiences.

I began with Rybo's suggestion that a WTF measurement is good starting point for wedge fitting. I took two DTL photographs of myself with my 58 degree wedge. One with length as is; one with the club head raised 1 1/2" off the ground. Rybo was extremely kind enough to comment on these pictures (at the time he was dealing with hurricane damage). It was his opinion that my set up simply looked more athletic and comfortable with the 'longer' club. This too was my opinion.

I then proceeded to lengthen all my irons by 1 1/2" using, for the first time, the universal shaft extenders (which are terrific). I also went back to midsize grips and fitted midsize Pure Tour Wrap. (It has been my experience with Pure grips that the weight variations between grips are minimal.) While my hand size lies between standard and midsize, I thought the heavier midsize grips would have a beneficial impact on the balance of the now longer clubs.

At a driving range (mats only) I checked the lie angle of each iron using a vertical line drawn onto each ball hit. I was relieved to note, on every club face, a vertical mark. I have played three rounds since the rebuild and good swings, throughout the set, have left shallow, dollar bill sized divots. The score from my last round was a one over 73 and was, in a large part, due to very solid iron play.

Some people have concerns about the impact on flex lengthening will have. All I can say is my irons do not feel too soft. This might be due to my being a swinger of the club with a smooth transition. Another concern people have is the resulting weight of the wedges. Yes, mine feel heavier, but by concentrating on the rhythm required for the shot I want to play, I have no trouble with playing a variety of feel led shots.

I now beleive when I practise, and play, my irons will work in harmony with a good swing.

To close, I would like to thank both Rybo for all the help and information he has taken considerable time and effort to provide as well all the other posters who have shared their experiences.

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#420 SixSixGolf

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:23 PM

https://www.youtube....index=7&list=WL

Don't know if anyone has posted this video but they're illustrating the point we're talking about in this thread. At least how I understood it. They're talking about how to create more room between the player and the ball. Somehow the simplest solution isn't mentioned.... MAKE THE CLUB LONGER.


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