[Tom Lerch]

I just ordered a set of MP-57 PX 5.5 and they are due to arrive on March 10. I can tell you this, I am not regretting it. These clubs are swords of steel. They have a great design, very clean and pure. Mizuno steel is like Samurai steel, soft to the touch, sharp at the point. These clubs are my new weapon.

Really, the debate is great but you can't go wrong with either club and if you are like me, likely a long way from exploiting the full power of either of these clubs. Anyones opinion regarding playability is subject to so many variables, it hardly a valid question. These clubs are clearly in the same class of playability, I suggest you choose the one you like to look at. For me, it was the Mizuno. Besides, I didn't like the idea of elastomer polymers in my club to control my feel nor a metalic cavity plate to tune the sound of my blade as it strikes.

[macglock]

Hit the AP-2 6 iron demo we got in today (along with the ZM, ZB, Ap1)
Seems softer than other titleist irons....
I still prefer the MP-57s, nothing like a pured mizuno iron, but on mishits the AP2's seemed to feel better

for the money I'd get the 57's, i think they look better all around, especially at address and feel better when hit solid

[Larry Swing]

Here in Europe the upcharges from Mizuno for non-standard shafts are absolutely insane. List prices per club:

MP57 with Dynamic Gold: 120€
MP57 with Project X or Nippon NS Pro: 145€ !
MP57 with NV 105 (graphite): 200€ !!

AP2 with Project X: 137€
AP2 with Aldila VS Proto: 166€

(A Euro is about 1.50 USD)

You typically get around 20% discount on those prices, but the MP57 with any other shaft than DG is still much more expensive than the AP2.

I preferred the AP2s feel to the MP57s and I get 8 AP2s for the same prices as 7 MP57s, so the decision was easy.

[eRod v1.0]

Well, I did it. Jumped on the AP2. 4-PW & W w/ Project X 6.0, New Decade Grips, 2* up except the PW and W are STD, 4 iron is bent to a 23*. Phew....can't wait to get them!

[snoman]

I had a chance to demo the AP line of clubs today at my local shop. Now bare in mind I was hitting into a sim so I can't speak much for ball flight etc just looks and feel and a pretty good idea of forgiveness based on sim numbers on poor contact shots.

AP1

This club is a real winner. You know my first impression when I put them at address was a G10 with less offset and chrome obviously. No, honestly if you are a player looking at the G10's but are kinda scared of the offset have a look at these. The feel off the face is very nice. Felt like it had a lot of rebound and the tech in these irons DO really dampen vibs throughout the iron. The cavity is quite deep and the elastomer strip is about twice as large as the AP2. Top line is thicker, not crazy but I have to admit that on the 6 iron I was trying, I was able to see the cavity/elastomer strip while addressing the ball. This was a little distracting but not a deal breaker.

AP2

Ok this is the club of the year in my humble opinion. First of all, people have been saying "if you didn't like the looks wait till you see them in person" well.... sorry if you didn't like the looks you probably still won't. They look the same as the pics! haha but seriously I may be in the minority but I think they are very classy looking. They have really grown on me. Atleast they are all black, grey and chrome no bright colored rubber sticking out everywhere. Some other OEM's should take notes. Top line is thinish, head size is about the same as the 57. Honestly a better comparison is the 735. Very little offset, sole width about the same as the 57's.
The feel of this club is excellent. Because this is an MP57 vs AP2 thread I will compare. The AP2 has a very muted but solid feel, not soft like the 57. If I had to give an example I would have to say that they feel like the 735's but with a softer, dampened feel. I remember some of the pro's on the Titleist site mentioning the sound of this club. I have to strongly agree. There is a real distinct sound from this club. When struck well it produces a nice piercing 'clack' or 'click'. The MP57 due to its soft forging to me sounds like a 'thwack' Does this make sense? Anyway equally pleasing. Where this club really shines is the forgiveness. When comparing forgivness between the 57 and AP2. AP2 wins hands down. The technology in this club really works when it comes to dampening vibes an off center strikes. Shots that I hit towards the toe only lost on average maybe 10 yards or so. Again Im on a sim so take with a grain of salt.
Now here is where I feel some people may prefer the 57's and I would understand completely. Due to the dampening qualities of the AP2, feedback from the face is not as pinpoint as the 57. When I struck a not so great shot, at times I said to myself "hmmmm I know I didn't quite get that one but how much did I miss the sweet spot by?". To me this is a bonus because the mishits are just much less harsh compared to the 57's and with the added forgiveness the shot would still be decent. However some would prefer to know exactly what part of the club face the ball made contact with and thus make corrections. This is where the 57's have an edge. I played blades for a season and nothing compares to that feeling.
I guess what it boils down to is do you still prefer a bit of the traditional feel of a one piece forging, butter soft but slightly harder on mishits or a little more game improvement qualities from multi-material constuction and solid but muted feedback. Each has its merits and is really a matter of personal opinion.
I hope you have enjoyed this review. I personally would be thrilled to play either set. I really think these are the 2 best in the biz right now in the player cavity category, however, stay tuned because we have the new Bridgestone offerings about to enter the fight and some rumors of new Nike forgings and some S58 replacements on the horizon. Its about to get crazy.

P.S. I demoed both the AP2 and the 57's with a Project X 5.5.

[kevcarter]

 eRod v1.0, on Mar 4 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

Well, I did it. Jumped on the AP2. 4-PW & W w/ Project X 6.0, New Decade Grips, 2* up except the PW and W are STD, 4 iron is bent to a 23*. Phew....can't wait to get them!

eRod,

Congrats on pulling the trigger. You are getting a GREAT set of irons. I hope you like them as much as I do.

Kevin

[kevcarter]

 spacedust, on Mar 3 2008, 09:37 PM, said:

most irons nowadays are built with quality- and performance has more to do with the individual than the equipment itself. buy what you will think bring you most joy. it all comes down to personal preference, because its something that you alone will own and use.

i bought the mp 57, couple of weeks ago. have played about 7 rounds or so. I can't express how much i enjoy playing and owning these clubs. i cut and regripped them the day the irons were delivered, prefererred a little smaller grip than stock. bought neoprene headcovers to protect them.
everytime i pull them out the bag, it makes me smile. They look good and feel great. these babies sit in my living room every night.

spacedust,

Congrats on your new set also. BEAUTIFUL set of irons!

Kevin

[sidewinder]

Both the MP-57 and AP2 are forged out of 1025 mild carbon steel so the actual feel should be similar. The sound of the AP2 is going to be different due to the elastomer cushion and tungsten nickel box. Then again, I suspect if we couldn't hear the impact I doubt feel on on center hits would be any different at all.

Scott

[kevcarter]

 snoman, on Mar 4 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

I had a chance to demo the AP line of clubs today at my local shop. Now bare in mind I was hitting into a sim so I can't speak much for ball flight etc just looks and feel and a pretty good idea of forgiveness based on sim numbers on poor contact shots.

AP1

This club is a real winner. You know my first impression when I put them at address was a G10 with less offset and chrome obviously. No, honestly if you are a player looking at the G10's but are kinda scared of the offset have a look at these. The feel off the face is very nice. Felt like it had a lot of rebound and the tech in these irons DO really dampen vibs throughout the iron. The cavity is quite deep and the elastomer strip is about twice as large as the AP2. Top line is thicker, not crazy but I have to admit that on the 6 iron I was trying, I was able to see the cavity/elastomer strip while addressing the ball. This was a little distracting but not a deal breaker.

AP2

Ok this is the club of the year in my humble opinion. First of all, people have been saying "if you didn't like the looks wait till you see them in person" well.... sorry if you didn't like the looks you probably still won't. They look the same as the pics! haha but seriously I may be in the minority but I think they are very classy looking. They have really grown on me. Atleast they are all black, grey and chrome no bright colored rubber sticking out everywhere. Some other OEM's should take notes. Top line is thinish, head size is about the same as the 57. Honestly a better comparison is the 735. Very little offset, sole width about the same as the 57's.
The feel of this club is excellent. Because this is an MP57 vs AP2 thread I will compare. The AP2 has a very muted but solid feel, not soft like the 57. If I had to give an example I would have to say that they feel like the 735's but with a softer, dampened feel. I remember some of the pro's on the Titleist site mentioning the sound of this club. I have to strongly agree. There is a real distinct sound from this club. When struck well it produces a nice piercing 'clack' or 'click'. The MP57 due to its soft forging to me sounds like a 'thwack' Does this make sense? Anyway equally pleasing. Where this club really shines is the forgiveness. When comparing forgivness between the 57 and AP2. AP2 wins hands down. The technology in this club really works when it comes to dampening vibes an off center strikes. Shots that I hit towards the toe only lost on average maybe 10 yards or so. Again Im on a sim so take with a grain of salt.
Now here is where I feel some people may prefer the 57's and I would understand completely. Due to the dampening qualities of the AP2, feedback from the face is not as pinpoint as the 57. When I struck a not so great shot, at times I said to myself "hmmmm I know I didn't quite get that one but how much did I miss the sweet spot by?". To me this is a bonus because the mishits are just much less harsh compared to the 57's and with the added forgiveness the shot would still be decent. However some would prefer to know exactly what part of the club face the ball made contact with and thus make corrections. This is where the 57's have an edge. I played blades for a season and nothing compares to that feeling.
I guess what it boils down to is do you still prefer a bit of the traditional feel of a one piece forging, butter soft but slightly harder on mishits or a little more game improvement qualities from multi-material constuction and solid but muted feedback. Each has its merits and is really a matter of personal opinion.
I hope you have enjoyed this review. I personally would be thrilled to play either set. I really think these are the 2 best in the biz right now in the player cavity category, however, stay tuned because we have the new Bridgestone offerings about to enter the fight and some rumors of new Nike forgings and some S58 replacements on the horizon. Its about to get crazy.

P.S. I demoed both the AP2 and the 57's with a Project X 5.5.

snoman,

Great job on the review! I believe if people hit them, they will LOVE them. AP1 and AP2!

Kevin

[eRod v1.0]

Kev, thanks and I am sure I will enjoy them. I just hope there aren't any delays at Titleist so I don't have to wait weeks to get them. My fitter told me they should ship on the 15th if there are no delays.

PS: what's up with your website, I keep going back to check it out but it says under construction.

[alevine]

Thanks for the reviews. One thing that has me leaning towards the AP2 is the fact that you can purchase a gap wedge as part of the set. I have played a Titleist gap wedge in my DCI 762's and really like it. I wish the MP57's had a gap wedge as well.

Adam

[kevcarter]

 eRod v1.0, on Mar 4 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Kev, thanks and I am sure I will enjoy them. I just hope there aren't any delays at Titleist so I don't have to wait weeks to get them. My fitter told me they should ship on the 15th if there are no delays.

PS: what's up with your website, I keep going back to check it out but it says under construction.

eRod,

Just don't have the time or energy to keep it updated for now...

Kevin

[eRod v1.0]

Alevine, I went ahead and added the gap wedge with my set. I am also getting my 54* bent to a 55*. I too like that the gap matches the set.

[BogeysBGone]

 TRB151, on Feb 2 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

Here ya go!
Ap2 Left MP57 Right
Picture_026.jpg
AP2 Left MP57 right
Picture_027.jpg
MP57 Left AP2 Right (Sorry I put them down backwards for this shot)
Picture_028.jpg
Hope this helps. They really are very similar looking!

Nice pictures - but one point of clarification please? Perhaps it is the lighting, but in the first 2 pictures, the 57 is on the right, and the Titleist on the left.

In the last picture, it appears to me, that the Mizuno has switched to the left, and not the right. Am I correct? The hozel looks shorter on the right club, and it's got more offset than other irons in my MP57s...whereas the left club appears more like a 5 or 4 iron?


Thanks.

Robb

[spacedust]

congrats on your new irons. may it bring you happiness like my irons bring me. i'm always looking forward and excited about getting on the golf coarse again. Even after finishing a round or when the sun sets and i can't see the ball anymore. (which is usually the case).

[TRB151]

 BogeysBGone, on Mar 4 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

 TRB151, on Feb 2 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

Here ya go!
Ap2 Left MP57 Right
Picture_026.jpg
AP2 Left MP57 right
Picture_027.jpg
MP57 Left AP2 Right (Sorry I put them down backwards for this shot)
Picture_028.jpg
Hope this helps. They really are very similar looking!

Nice pictures - but one point of clarification please? Perhaps it is the lighting, but in the first 2 pictures, the 57 is on the right, and the Titleist on the left.

In the last picture, it appears to me, that the Mizuno has switched to the left, and not the right. Am I correct? The hozel looks shorter on the right club, and it's got more offset than other irons in my MP57s...whereas the left club appears more like a 5 or 4 iron?


Thanks.

Robb

Yes that is correct!...See the little symbols above the pictures? Those are called words they discribe the fact that I switched the irons in the last pictures...

Just messing with ya...It was an honest mistake

[texcrom]

 Tom Lerch, on Mar 4 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

I just ordered a set of MP-57 PX 5.5 and they are due to arrive on March 10. I can tell you this, I am not regretting it. These clubs are swords of steel. They have a great design, very clean and pure. Mizuno steel is like Samurai steel, soft to the touch, sharp at the point. These clubs are my new weapon.

Really, the debate is great but you can't go wrong with either club and if you are like me, likely a long way from exploiting the full power of either of these clubs. Anyones opinion regarding playability is subject to so many variables, it hardly a valid question. These clubs are clearly in the same class of playability, I suggest you choose the one you like to look at. For me, it was the Mizuno. Besides, I didn't like the idea of elastomer polymers in my club to control my feel nor a metalic cavity plate to tune the sound of my blade as it strikes.

I believe that sums up the difference in the two products.

The Mizuno achieves it's feel and performance thru design and forging process. The Titleist, while an excellent club, achieves it's feel in a different manner.

It just seems to me that if a product is designed and manufactured properly, there is no need for additional "add ons" to make it a competitive product. It is much the same reason that I don't really have interest in TM R7TP's and Callaway X Forged, with their glued on designs in the cavities. I have witnessed people with both products where the parts have come loose and fallen out of the cavity.

While I recognize that Titleist products are excellent products, and have hit and liked the 680's and 695 MB's, I like the poster above prefer the Mizuno products for this same reason in this comparison of MP-57 and AP2.

[texcrom]

 spacedust, on Mar 3 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

most irons nowadays are built with quality- and performance has more to do with the individual than the equipment itself. buy what you will think bring you most joy. it all comes down to personal preference, because its something that you alone will own and use.

i bought the mp 57, couple of weeks ago. have played about 7 rounds or so. I can't express how much i enjoy playing and owning these clubs. i cut and regripped them the day the irons were delivered, prefererred a little smaller grip than stock. bought neoprene headcovers to protect them.
everytime i pull them out the bag, it makes me smile. They look good and feel great. these babies sit in my living room every night.

here are some pics i took before and after a quick wet wipe down and wd 40 rub.

Just curious...what is the purpose of the WD40 rub?

[fitz8888]

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

 Tom Lerch, on Mar 4 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

I just ordered a set of MP-57 PX 5.5 and they are due to arrive on March 10. I can tell you this, I am not regretting it. These clubs are swords of steel. They have a great design, very clean and pure. Mizuno steel is like Samurai steel, soft to the touch, sharp at the point. These clubs are my new weapon.

Really, the debate is great but you can't go wrong with either club and if you are like me, likely a long way from exploiting the full power of either of these clubs. Anyones opinion regarding playability is subject to so many variables, it hardly a valid question. These clubs are clearly in the same class of playability, I suggest you choose the one you like to look at. For me, it was the Mizuno. Besides, I didn't like the idea of elastomer polymers in my club to control my feel nor a metalic cavity plate to tune the sound of my blade as it strikes.

I believe that sums up the difference in the two products.

The Mizuno achieves it's feel and performance thru design and forging process. The Titleist, while an excellent club, achieves it's feel in a different manner.

It just seems to me that if a product is designed and manufactured properly, there is no need for additional "add ons" to make it a competitive product. It is much the same reason that I don't really have interest in TM R7TP's and Callaway X Forged, with their glued on designs in the cavities. I have witnessed people with both products where the parts have come loose and fallen out of the cavity.

While I recognize that Titleist products are excellent products, and have hit and liked the 680's and 695 MB's, I like the poster above prefer the Mizuno products for this same reason in this comparison of MP-57 and AP2.

Hoo boy,

But do the Mp-57's come with a tanto blade so the next time one of you shanks one of your Mizuno swords into the lake for a triple bogey you can immediately perform Seppuku/Hara-Kiri like any good Samurai would?

[Larry Swing]

Quote

The Mizuno achieves it's feel and performance thru design and forging process. The Titleist, while an excellent club, achieves it's feel in a different manner.

I went through something similar in Tennis. I stuck to my Dunlop Maxply because honest men played wooden rackets and I felt that applying to much technology was like cheating. For those of you under 30:



That is, until my mates with their ugly, oversized, gimmicky graphite rackets kept beating me. I joined the dark side and since then prefer function over form (there is a limit, of course).

Mizuno did great with the MP57 and it was a very close call for me. I felt that the AP2 performed slightly better and on the course it won't matter (to me) how they achieve it.

[Tom Lerch]

My Tanto is always at the ready should I consider my Honor so deeply offended that I may take my own life than face the shame. Fortunately for me, tripple bogeys don't come close to the line.

You obviously don't know my game. I could just as easily hit in the lake with an AP-2 as a 57.

[texcrom]

 fitz8888, on Mar 5 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

 Tom Lerch, on Mar 4 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

I just ordered a set of MP-57 PX 5.5 and they are due to arrive on March 10. I can tell you this, I am not regretting it. These clubs are swords of steel. They have a great design, very clean and pure. Mizuno steel is like Samurai steel, soft to the touch, sharp at the point. These clubs are my new weapon.

Really, the debate is great but you can't go wrong with either club and if you are like me, likely a long way from exploiting the full power of either of these clubs. Anyones opinion regarding playability is subject to so many variables, it hardly a valid question. These clubs are clearly in the same class of playability, I suggest you choose the one you like to look at. For me, it was the Mizuno. Besides, I didn't like the idea of elastomer polymers in my club to control my feel nor a metalic cavity plate to tune the sound of my blade as it strikes.

I believe that sums up the difference in the two products.

The Mizuno achieves it's feel and performance thru design and forging process. The Titleist, while an excellent club, achieves it's feel in a different manner.

It just seems to me that if a product is designed and manufactured properly, there is no need for additional "add ons" to make it a competitive product. It is much the same reason that I don't really have interest in TM R7TP's and Callaway X Forged, with their glued on designs in the cavities. I have witnessed people with both products where the parts have come loose and fallen out of the cavity.

While I recognize that Titleist products are excellent products, and have hit and liked the 680's and 695 MB's, I like the poster above prefer the Mizuno products for this same reason in this comparison of MP-57 and AP2.

Hoo boy,

But do the Mp-57's come with a tanto blade so the next time one of you shanks one of your Mizuno swords into the lake for a triple bogey you can immediately perform Seppuku/Hara-Kiri like any good Samurai would?

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

[kevcarter]

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

 fitz8888, on Mar 5 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

 Tom Lerch, on Mar 4 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

I just ordered a set of MP-57 PX 5.5 and they are due to arrive on March 10. I can tell you this, I am not regretting it. These clubs are swords of steel. They have a great design, very clean and pure. Mizuno steel is like Samurai steel, soft to the touch, sharp at the point. These clubs are my new weapon.

Really, the debate is great but you can't go wrong with either club and if you are like me, likely a long way from exploiting the full power of either of these clubs. Anyones opinion regarding playability is subject to so many variables, it hardly a valid question. These clubs are clearly in the same class of playability, I suggest you choose the one you like to look at. For me, it was the Mizuno. Besides, I didn't like the idea of elastomer polymers in my club to control my feel nor a metalic cavity plate to tune the sound of my blade as it strikes.

I believe that sums up the difference in the two products.

The Mizuno achieves it's feel and performance thru design and forging process. The Titleist, while an excellent club, achieves it's feel in a different manner.

It just seems to me that if a product is designed and manufactured properly, there is no need for additional "add ons" to make it a competitive product. It is much the same reason that I don't really have interest in TM R7TP's and Callaway X Forged, with their glued on designs in the cavities. I have witnessed people with both products where the parts have come loose and fallen out of the cavity.

While I recognize that Titleist products are excellent products, and have hit and liked the 680's and 695 MB's, I like the poster above prefer the Mizuno products for this same reason in this comparison of MP-57 and AP2.

Hoo boy,

But do the Mp-57's come with a tanto blade so the next time one of you shanks one of your Mizuno swords into the lake for a triple bogey you can immediately perform Seppuku/Hara-Kiri like any good Samurai would?

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Nice

I think guys need to hit everything, and choose what performs and feels the best for them. If the clubs that perform the best cost an extra couple hundred, that $$$ will be forgotten quickly.

Everybody just answers with their favorites in these what should I buy threads... buy what YOU test and prefer!

Kevin

[Shanks4Nothing]

New to the board, must say that I've enjoyed reading everybody's posts so far, lot of good, knowledgable posters here.

Was at Golf Galaxy yesterday, employee said that with the new irons coming out, Titleist would have their fitting cart there. I just wondered, would that allow me to get fit through them, then order the clubs to my specs through the store? I'm really interested in the new AP2's if they perform up to what I hear I'll likely purchase them. I've never been fitted before (or purchased brand new clubs, for that matter), so I don't really now how Titleist's fitting cart works. Anybody who's done it, I'd appreciate the insight.

[spacedust]

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

 spacedust, on Mar 3 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

most irons nowadays are built with quality- and performance has more to do with the individual than the equipment itself. buy what you will think bring you most joy. it all comes down to personal preference, because its something that you alone will own and use.

i bought the mp 57, couple of weeks ago. have played about 7 rounds or so. I can't express how much i enjoy playing and owning these clubs. i cut and regripped them the day the irons were delivered, prefererred a little smaller grip than stock. bought neoprene headcovers to protect them.
everytime i pull them out the bag, it makes me smile. They look good and feel great. these babies sit in my living room every night.

here are some pics i took before and after a quick wet wipe down and wd 40 rub.

Just curious...what is the purpose of the WD40 rub?

not sure if it does anything... but i read somewhere.. its a good way to prevent rust... i think mostly when you are preparing to store your irons for long periods of time... but i play mine couple of times a week... so don't know if it does any good... but what the hey... i'd read it a bedtime story if i think it makes the irons happier.

[csiachos]

 spacedust, on Mar 5 2008, 04:38 PM, said:

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

 spacedust, on Mar 3 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

most irons nowadays are built with quality- and performance has more to do with the individual than the equipment itself. buy what you will think bring you most joy. it all comes down to personal preference, because its something that you alone will own and use.

i bought the mp 57, couple of weeks ago. have played about 7 rounds or so. I can't express how much i enjoy playing and owning these clubs. i cut and regripped them the day the irons were delivered, prefererred a little smaller grip than stock. bought neoprene headcovers to protect them.
everytime i pull them out the bag, it makes me smile. They look good and feel great. these babies sit in my living room every night.

here are some pics i took before and after a quick wet wipe down and wd 40 rub.

Just curious...what is the purpose of the WD40 rub?

not sure if it does anything... but i read somewhere.. its a good way to prevent rust... i think mostly when you are preparing to store your irons for long periods of time... but i play mine couple of times a week... so don't know if it does any good... but what the hey... i'd read it a bedtime story if i think it makes the irons happier.

Man, I thought I was bad. Must not be married or have kids. Am I right? My bag got banished from the house to my trunk, and as for being in the living room every night, if I tried that, I'd be sleeping in the living room with my clubs.

[love2golf]

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

[jwolfe910]

I started this post after buying my Mp57 not having hit them and heard all these great posts about the new ap2's. Being a Titleist guy myself it was hard for me to switch for my 755's to the Mp57's. I still play Titleist like my bag, 3 wood, wedges, and scotty putter so I'm not bias toward one company or the other. I did alot of research asked a lot of people who have hit both clubs and this is what I found. Yes the AP2's are more forgiving. I found that they are a couple yards better on mishits. Yes they feel better on mishits. The mp57 feels better on flush hits. I think they look better from a traditional standpoint. I was seriously thinking of getting the ap2's until I finally played my mp 57's this weekend. I found how forgiving they were on the first hole and on a par 3. On the first hole I pulled out of my stance and topped one of my pro 1's. To my suprise I still hit the green and only lost of couple of yards. Yes the ball flew a lot lower than normal but it still got there only losing a few yards. Then on a 203 yard par 3 slightly uphill I hit my 4 iron and hit it off the toe. I know I hit it off the toe because I put three blue dots on my pro v's across the top of the Titleist logo with a dimple inbetween each dot. I had one blue mark on the grooves one dot were the grooves end and one dot off the grooves. I still hit the green only about 8 yards short of where I would normally hit my 4 iron. I'm going to keep my Mp 57's for a couple of reason's. One I would take a hugh lose on trading them in and I would have to spend a bunch for new ap2's. Second I don't think it's worth the money for a couple of yards on one or two mishits a round. Third is I like the looks of the Mp57's better. If anyone disagrees with my findings please feel free to add a reply as I have not hit the AP2's this is just what I have found asking numerous people who have hit both.

[spacedust]

 csiachos, on Mar 5 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

 spacedust, on Mar 5 2008, 04:38 PM, said:

 texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

 spacedust, on Mar 3 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

most irons nowadays are built with quality- and performance has more to do with the individual than the equipment itself. buy what you will think bring you most joy. it all comes down to personal preference, because its something that you alone will own and use.

i bought the mp 57, couple of weeks ago. have played about 7 rounds or so. I can't express how much i enjoy playing and owning these clubs. i cut and regripped them the day the irons were delivered, prefererred a little smaller grip than stock. bought neoprene headcovers to protect them.
everytime i pull them out the bag, it makes me smile. They look good and feel great. these babies sit in my living room every night.

here are some pics i took before and after a quick wet wipe down and wd 40 rub.

Just curious...what is the purpose of the WD40 rub?

not sure if it does anything... but i read somewhere.. its a good way to prevent rust... i think mostly when you are preparing to store your irons for long periods of time... but i play mine couple of times a week... so don't know if it does any good... but what the hey... i'd read it a bedtime story if i think it makes the irons happier.

Man, I thought I was bad. Must not be married or have kids. Am I right? My bag got banished from the house to my trunk, and as for being in the living room every night, if I tried that, I'd be sleeping in the living room with my clubs.

haha, i have a big living room, with big plants and the tv on the wall, 10 ft ceilings... so its spacious and open. i could put the golf clubs in the corner and if you're not looking directly at it... you probably never see it. i also have a playroom, gym room, office and an empty formal living room i can put it in.. plenty of space..... so i never had a problem with golf clubs being in the house.... and of coarse... the garage if i wanted it outside.... i am single.... but when i was married.... golf clubs in the house... was never an issue....

[The Ultimate Spin]

hit them...went with 57's....cleaner looking, AP2's not that remarkable IMO

[DFW15]

MP 57's are my favorite looking club that I would actually play MP 60's very similar but not as forgiving. I have the 755's so I am used to the new colors that Titleist is using etc. With clubs you really need to play them for about 2 or 3 weeks which is hard to do if you want custom options. I say go with a head that you like and then spend as much time if not more on shaft selection and the proper bend on your lies and lofts. I went with the AP2's because I felt they had a tad more forgiveness which would pay off with the lower irons 4 and 5 and even 6. We are really arguing about subtle differences and looks seems to be the main topic but either club is excellent just get the right shaft or shafts and get fitted or know your specifics.... that is what is really going to make a difference.

[texcrom]

love2golf, on Mar 5 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

Let me help you out with the local prices in my area....

Titleist AP-2 with Project X = $999
Titleist ZM with Dynamic Gold = $899
Mizuno MP-57 with Project X = $849

Thanks for the math lesson. You're right, only $150 difference, same shaft.

The fact is that the increased prices are not a result of tremendous leaps in "technology".

Many tour players, if they were not tied to huge endorsement contracts, given an option to select an iron, would select Mizuno. Not all, but many more than you might imagine.

The reason you pay $999 for X-Tours and X-Forged, and $999 for the AP-2, and $999 for a set of RAC MB's, and $799 for a set of cast Taylor Made R7TP's is simple....you are paying for marketing / advertising, and you are paying for huge endorsement contracts.

Isn't it odd that companies like Cleveland and Mizuno and Ping, that have less contracts with tour players, and not nearly the amount of advertising, sell their player clubs for considerably less than the companies described above? I can walk into a major golf chain today and buy Cleveland or Mizuno irons for $699. That would be a set of MP-32's, 67's, or 60's, and the Cleveland Red Gel (whatever they are called) are $699, and the new just released Cleveland CG Tour for $799. Even the Ping i10 sells for $699.

Quite frankly, from a technology standpoint, the all new technologically advanced AP-2 bears a striking resemblance to last years Nike CCI Forged. The advanced Callaway prototypes, as shown in another topic, bear a striking resemblance to the Hogan Apex from a couple of years ago (Callaway owns Hogan...coincidence?)

I'm sorry, but the technology theory just doesn't fly. The prices are up to cover advertising and endorsement deals.

[drpino]

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:18 PM, said:

love2golf, on Mar 5 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

Let me help you out with the local prices in my area....

Titleist AP-2 with Project X = $999
Titleist ZM with Dynamic Gold = $899
Mizuno MP-57 with Project X = $849

Thanks for the math lesson. You're right, only $150 difference, same shaft.

The fact is that the increased prices are not a result of tremendous leaps in "technology".

Many tour players, if they were not tied to huge endorsement contracts, given an option to select an iron, would select Mizuno. Not all, but many more than you might imagine.

The reason you pay $999 for X-Tours and X-Forged, and $999 for the AP-2, and $999 for a set of RAC MB's, and $799 for a set of cast Taylor Made R7TP's is simple....you are paying for marketing / advertising, and you are paying for huge endorsement contracts.

Isn't it odd that companies like Cleveland and Mizuno and Ping, that have less contracts with tour players, and not nearly the amount of advertising, sell their player clubs for considerably less than the companies described above? I can walk into a major golf chain today and buy Cleveland or Mizuno irons for $699. That would be a set of MP-32's, 67's, or 60's, and the Cleveland Red Gel whatever they are and the new just released CG Tour for $799, and the Ping i10 for $699.

Quite frankly, from a technology standpoint, the all new technologically advanced AP-2 bears a striking resemblance to last years Nike CCI Forged. The advanced Callaway prototypes, as shown in another topic, bear a striking resemblance to the Hogan Apex from a couple of years ago (Callaway owns Hogan...coincidence?)

I'm sorry, but the technology theory just doesn't fly.

take a look at Callaway's Big Bertha '08 - +$200 for stock piece o' crap graphite shafts over stock piece o' crap steel shafts.

thanks for the sarcasm. $200 difference, same heads and similar cheap, piece o' crap shafts.

i know you're a big Mizuno fan but the market and its prices are dictated by supply and demand and regardless of whether you like it or not, in the overall retail golf market (that caters to the average golfer and not the average WRX member), there is more demand for Titleist irons than Mizuno (basing this on actual retail marketplace experience).

your comment regarding tour players...is that based on your interviews with them? sounds like an assumption to me.

Cleveland positions their clubs at a lower price point on purpose...it's the segment of the market they're purposefully targeting (straight from the rep's mouth).

Ping has a "high-tech" set in the Raptures....price point on those?

Mizuno also has a "high-tech" set....MX-950...price point on those?

don't take this post as a complete agreement with the pricing policies of OEMs and their "more technology" justification...just want to shed more light on your obviously biased opinion.

[texcrom]

drpino, on Mar 6 2008, 12:46 AM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:18 PM, said:

love2golf, on Mar 5 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

Let me help you out with the local prices in my area....

Titleist AP-2 with Project X = $999
Titleist ZM with Dynamic Gold = $899
Mizuno MP-57 with Project X = $849

Thanks for the math lesson. You're right, only $150 difference, same shaft.

The fact is that the increased prices are not a result of tremendous leaps in "technology".

Many tour players, if they were not tied to huge endorsement contracts, given an option to select an iron, would select Mizuno. Not all, but many more than you might imagine.

The reason you pay $999 for X-Tours and X-Forged, and $999 for the AP-2, and $999 for a set of RAC MB's, and $799 for a set of cast Taylor Made R7TP's is simple....you are paying for marketing / advertising, and you are paying for huge endorsement contracts.

Isn't it odd that companies like Cleveland and Mizuno and Ping, that have less contracts with tour players, and not nearly the amount of advertising, sell their player clubs for considerably less than the companies described above? I can walk into a major golf chain today and buy Cleveland or Mizuno irons for $699. That would be a set of MP-32's, 67's, or 60's, and the Cleveland Red Gel whatever they are and the new just released CG Tour for $799, and the Ping i10 for $699.

Quite frankly, from a technology standpoint, the all new technologically advanced AP-2 bears a striking resemblance to last years Nike CCI Forged. The advanced Callaway prototypes, as shown in another topic, bear a striking resemblance to the Hogan Apex from a couple of years ago (Callaway owns Hogan...coincidence?)

I'm sorry, but the technology theory just doesn't fly.

take a look at Callaway's Big Bertha '08 - +$200 for stock piece o' crap graphite shafts over stock piece o' crap steel shafts.

thanks for the sarcasm. $200 difference, same heads and similar cheap, piece o' crap shafts.

i know you're a big Mizuno fan but the market and its prices are dictated by supply and demand and regardless of whether you like it or not, in the overall retail golf market (that caters to the average golfer and not the average WRX member), there is more demand for Titleist irons than Mizuno (basing this on actual retail marketplace experience).

your comment regarding tour players...is that based on your interviews with them? sounds like an assumption to me.

Cleveland positions their clubs at a lower price point on purpose...it's the segment of the market they're purposefully targeting (straight from the rep's mouth).

Ping has a "high-tech" set in the Raptures....price point on those?

Mizuno also has a "high-tech" set....MX-950...price point on those?

don't take this post as a complete agreement with the pricing policies of OEMs and their "more technology" justification...just want to shed more light on your obviously biased opinion.

Obviously, I'm not aware of Clevlands positions as I am not in retail.

Comment on tour players based on conversations....yes. In addition, there is a historical perspective.

Anyway, your points are well taken, and well communicated in the spirit of debate.

(Note to self......Change my signature before going off on a Mizuno rant!)

(Add'l. note to self......No matter how good they might look, do not buy the AP-2's!!)

[LSeca]

Never hit the Ap2, but I am a Titleist fan. However, I like the look of the MP57 way more and I like the fact the company specializes in one thing...fine forged irons. Mizuno iron users seem to be some of the most loyal for a reason, the feel of Mizzy forged are the yardstick all other major oems are judged by. I am not saying the Mp57s are better for anyone here, but they are for me. I don't think either is going to be noticebly more forgiving or workable over the other, especially after you have played them for a while, so buy whatever model you want.

[drpino]

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 11:55 PM, said:

Obviously, I'm not aware of Clevlands positions as I am not in retail.

Comment on tour players based on conversations....yes. In addition, there is a historical perspective.

Anyway, your points are well taken, and well communicated in the spirit of debate.

(Note to self......Change my signature before going off on a Mizuno rant!)

(Add'l. note to self......No matter how good they might look, do not buy the AP-2's!!)

Cleveland sees its position in the market as the one filling the demand for clubs that perform but won't break the bank...very admirable considering there's a trend towards "buying" skill for many golfers.

i find it logical that more skilled players (i.e. touring professionals) gravitate towards simply designed yet high performing products like those produced by Mizuno, Ping and yes, Titleist. but by your own argument, the prevalence of AP2s in the bags of Titleist staffers would indicate there is a performance benefit to the AP2s when they're choosing them over the 69X-series blades/CBs and the new ZM/ZB.

personally, i'm a fan of Mizuno, Titleist, Srixon, Bridgestone, Ping and to a lesser extent Cleveland and consequently own clubs (in all categories) from all of the above. i find the price points of the entire golf industry somewhat ludicrous to be honest. for a game/industry that's essentially declining (in terms of rounds played, etc.) in popularity in recent years, the OEMs aren't doing any of us any favors by pricing potential players out of the market with their $500+ drivers, $1k+ irons, $250 putters, etc. thank god for PUDs, the used club market and the WRX BST

[love2golf]

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

love2golf, on Mar 5 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

Let me help you out with the local prices in my area....

Titleist AP-2 with Project X = $999
Titleist ZM with Dynamic Gold = $899
Mizuno MP-57 with Project X = $849

Thanks for the math lesson. You're right, only $150 difference, same shaft.

The fact is that the increased prices are not a result of tremendous leaps in "technology".

Many tour players, if they were not tied to huge endorsement contracts, given an option to select an iron, would select Mizuno. Not all, but many more than you might imagine.

The reason you pay $999 for X-Tours and X-Forged, and $999 for the AP-2, and $999 for a set of RAC MB's, and $799 for a set of cast Taylor Made R7TP's is simple....you are paying for marketing / advertising, and you are paying for huge endorsement contracts.

Isn't it odd that companies like Cleveland and Mizuno and Ping, that have less contracts with tour players, and not nearly the amount of advertising, sell their player clubs for considerably less than the companies described above? I can walk into a major golf chain today and buy Cleveland or Mizuno irons for $699. That would be a set of MP-32's, 67's, or 60's, and the Cleveland Red Gel (whatever they are called) are $699, and the new just released Cleveland CG Tour for $799. Even the Ping i10 sells for $699.

Quite frankly, from a technology standpoint, the all new technologically advanced AP-2 bears a striking resemblance to last years Nike CCI Forged. The advanced Callaway prototypes, as shown in another topic, bear a striking resemblance to the Hogan Apex from a couple of years ago (Callaway owns Hogan...coincidence?)

I'm sorry, but the technology theory just doesn't fly. The prices are up to cover advertising and endorsement deals.

I wasn't giving you a math lesson. Please drop the attitude. All I did was give a comparison of other very similar clubs out there. There is a big price difference in the AP1 and the AP2 for a reason. The AP1 is cast. The AP2 is a two piece forging that is welded together with some sort of tungsten cradle in the back. A more costly manufacturing procedure is involved with the AP2. And of course, marketing is involved. That always drives up prices. I thought that was common sense and not even worth discussing. That's why MP-57's and AP-2's cost so much to begin with. Or for that matter, my Jeep Wrangler, my TV, my cell phone, etc. Marketing is a common sensical part of the argument of any brand. And in my mind, the AP-2 and MP-57, marketing dollars probably cancel each other out for the sake of this argument.

But by your argument, the AP-2 is strictly higher priced due to advertising and endorsement deals? Just that iron out of the whole stable of Titleist irons? You don't think it has to do with the higher cost manufacturing process of the AP2? Just a thought.

[texcrom]

love2golf, on Mar 6 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

love2golf, on Mar 5 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

texcrom, on Mar 5 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

No, but conversely the next time you chunk / top / shank / cut one of your ProV1's, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you paid $200 more for the AP-2 than I paid for my Mizuno's.

Guys, how many times does one have to say that the difference in price is that the shaft in the AP2 is Project X? How much is it to buy the Callaway FT's? $1k plus. How much is it to buy the Ping S58 without PX standard? $849. How much was it to buy the old Callaway X-Tour 2 years ago? $1k plus. Titleist does have the AP2 priced where it should be in the market when compared to similar clubs (without even having project X as the stock shaft!). There is a lot of technology that has gone in to the AP2 and obviously people are/were buying the S58s, FT's, Fusions, old X-Tours, etc. You have to remember that this is new for Titleist to produce a club with so much tech. People are just used to paying $600-$800 for their Titleists. Now that they've put a lot of engineering and research (not to mention risk) into a new direction, someone has to pay for it. They're going to make what the market is baring and right now it is baring a $1k set 3-pw.

Let me help you out with the local prices in my area....

Titleist AP-2 with Project X = $999
Titleist ZM with Dynamic Gold = $899
Mizuno MP-57 with Project X = $849

Thanks for the math lesson. You're right, only $150 difference, same shaft.

The fact is that the increased prices are not a result of tremendous leaps in "technology".

Many tour players, if they were not tied to huge endorsement contracts, given an option to select an iron, would select Mizuno. Not all, but many more than you might imagine.

The reason you pay $999 for X-Tours and X-Forged, and $999 for the AP-2, and $999 for a set of RAC MB's, and $799 for a set of cast Taylor Made R7TP's is simple....you are paying for marketing / advertising, and you are paying for huge endorsement contracts.

Isn't it odd that companies like Cleveland and Mizuno and Ping, that have less contracts with tour players, and not nearly the amount of advertising, sell their player clubs for considerably less than the companies described above? I can walk into a major golf chain today and buy Cleveland or Mizuno irons for $699. That would be a set of MP-32's, 67's, or 60's, and the Cleveland Red Gel (whatever they are called) are $699, and the new just released Cleveland CG Tour for $799. Even the Ping i10 sells for $699.

Quite frankly, from a technology standpoint, the all new technologically advanced AP-2 bears a striking resemblance to last years Nike CCI Forged. The advanced Callaway prototypes, as shown in another topic, bear a striking resemblance to the Hogan Apex from a couple of years ago (Callaway owns Hogan...coincidence?)

I'm sorry, but the technology theory just doesn't fly. The prices are up to cover advertising and endorsement deals.

I wasn't giving you a math lesson. Please drop the attitude. All I did was give a comparison of other very similar clubs out there. There is a big price difference in the AP1 and the AP2 for a reason. The AP1 is cast. The AP2 is a two piece forging that is welded together with some sort of tungsten cradle in the back. A more costly manufacturing procedure is involved with the AP2. And of course, marketing is involved. That always drives up prices. I thought that was common sense and not even worth discussing. That's why MP-57's and AP-2's cost so much to begin with. Or for that matter, my Jeep Wrangler, my TV, my cell phone, etc. Marketing is a common sensical part of the argument of any brand. And in my mind, the AP-2 and MP-57, marketing dollars probably cancel each other out for the sake of this argument.

But by your argument, the AP-2 is strictly higher priced due to advertising and endorsement deals? Just that iron out of the whole stable of Titleist irons? You don't think it has to do with the higher cost manufacturing process of the AP2? Just a thought.

No attitude...just thoughts....and neither of us is going to win this debate.

I guess my point is that there does not seem to be $150 -$200 of additional technology or manufacturing costs in the AP2 as compared to the MP-57.

Despite my signature, I have been a Titleist consumer for years (balls, clubs, and in fact a nice black and white staff bag and den caddy sit beside my desk as I type this.).

Titleist is a quality manufacturer. I just believe that their prices have risen to the point that does not justify the difference in quality, either in their clubs, or for that matter in their balls.

In my geographical area for the last year, the Mizuno MP-67 and MP-32 sold for $699, while the Titleist 695MB and 695CB sold for $899. Similar quality sticks with Dynamic Gold shafts.

For my $200, I'll go with Mizuno, especially when I consider it an equally good, or in some cases, better product.

So, let's just agree to disagree. I've enjoyed our discussion.

[eRod v1.0]

If I had enough cash, I would get both of them! Lmao.

[Larry Swing]

Must be US market issue, mybe $ related. Here in Europe the MP57 with Project X is significantly (~15%) more expensive than the AP2 with the same shaft, only with the standard shaft (DG) it is a bit cheaper. The MP57 with Graphite Shafts is 20% more expensive than the AP2. Pricing was one factor in my decision, too.