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Sooooo, is golf dying?


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#691 golfer07840

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:08 PM

View Postyouraway2, on 17 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

View Postadam667220, on 17 August 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Along the lines of attendance being down, etc. I just noticed something I've never seen from any course.

A course that I play maybe once a year has started offering hourly golf rates. They advertise it as, come in before work for an hour, or over lunch kind of thing, but either way, numbers must be pretty bad if you're trying to drum up any couple bucks you can. I can imagine the havoc that wreaks on scheduling tee times. You could go from backed to empty when everyone just decides to walk off the course. Not to mention how do you monitor their play.

Just thought it was odd.
Why not just add foot golf in as an added benefit? You could also rent boom boxes. Let's grow the game!

Footgolf has seriously become a thing here in NJ... hate it.


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#692 DrCRHop

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:35 PM

View PostMSchad, on 14 August 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 14 August 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

View PostMSchad, on 14 August 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

I'm 65 now and we have had the 1st or 2nd tee time for the last 10-12 years. 2 1/2 hour 18 hole rounds. Home in time for breakfast with the wife!
I am also at work @ 5:30 am during the week.

I don't care if it takes 90 mins to play 18 holes. I am not getting up that early to golf. A friend of mine works construction and is at work at an ungodly hour and when he plays on the weekends, he texts me what's going on. I wake up around 8:30 on a Saturday and there is he is on the 9th green by 8 am.

I also don't understand this desire to get it over with as quickly as possible. "I got my round in under 3 hours!" what is the rush? I'm not saying take 5 hours, but there seems to be this growing consensus on here that if you aren't done in under 3:30 hours, you're a slow player and should be fined and imprisoned.

Not saying you have to get up. Sleep in. Those of us who play early usually have other interests also and just don't want to spend 4+ hours in the middle of the day golfing when you can do more in the day. We also don't try to speed golf. That's just all the time it takes when the course is not packed.
When I play during the week I try and get the first tee time (6:30-ish) and will walk 9 holes - that way I know I'm not going to get stuck behind a slower group.  I'm an early riser anyway, but playing at 6:30 is perfect for my day, finish around 8-8:15 and then get to work by 9:30-ish.  Plus, in the summer it gets too hot too quickly so at least playing this early help with that.

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#693 youraway2

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 05:55 PM

View Postgolfer07840, on 18 August 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

View Postyouraway2, on 17 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

View Postadam667220, on 17 August 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Along the lines of attendance being down, etc. I just noticed something I've never seen from any course.

A course that I play maybe once a year has started offering hourly golf rates. They advertise it as, come in before work for an hour, or over lunch kind of thing, but either way, numbers must be pretty bad if you're trying to drum up any couple bucks you can. I can imagine the havoc that wreaks on scheduling tee times. You could go from backed to empty when everyone just decides to walk off the course. Not to mention how do you monitor their play.

Just thought it was odd.
Why not just add foot golf in as an added benefit? You could also rent boom boxes. Let's grow the game!

Footgolf has seriously become a thing here in NJ... hate it.
Our course spent big $ putting in the hole liners and flags.  They haven't been used in years and all the flags rotted away, and the hole covers are bent from mowing equipment, but they are still there, an eyesore on our course.  This year they have replaced all the flags but still no play. Plus the prices to occupy the course is far less than standard green fees.  My experience shows it's a huge loss for our sport.  Put the stupid things in the park somewhere.

Edited by youraway2, 18 August 2017 - 05:57 PM.


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#694 golfer07840

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:03 PM

View Postyouraway2, on 18 August 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 18 August 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

View Postyouraway2, on 17 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

View Postadam667220, on 17 August 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Along the lines of attendance being down, etc. I just noticed something I've never seen from any course.

A course that I play maybe once a year has started offering hourly golf rates. They advertise it as, come in before work for an hour, or over lunch kind of thing, but either way, numbers must be pretty bad if you're trying to drum up any couple bucks you can. I can imagine the havoc that wreaks on scheduling tee times. You could go from backed to empty when everyone just decides to walk off the course. Not to mention how do you monitor their play.

Just thought it was odd.
Why not just add foot golf in as an added benefit? You could also rent boom boxes. Let's grow the game!

Footgolf has seriously become a thing here in NJ... hate it.
Our course spent big $ putting in the hole liners and flags.  They haven't been used in years and all the flags rotted away, and the hole covers are bent from mowing equipment, but they are still there, an eyesore on our course.  This year they have replaced all the flags but still no play. Plus the prices to occupy the course is far less than standard green fees.  My experience shows it's a huge loss for our sport.  Put the stupid things in the park somewhere.
I was walking behind a bunch of footgolfers in the parking lot a few weeks ago, and I heard them taking about their "putting" stroke being off. I just rolled my eyes.

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#695 rawdog

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:11 PM

View Postgolfer07840, on 18 August 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

View Postyouraway2, on 18 August 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 18 August 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

View Postyouraway2, on 17 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

View Postadam667220, on 17 August 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Along the lines of attendance being down, etc. I just noticed something I've never seen from any course.

A course that I play maybe once a year has started offering hourly golf rates. They advertise it as, come in before work for an hour, or over lunch kind of thing, but either way, numbers must be pretty bad if you're trying to drum up any couple bucks you can. I can imagine the havoc that wreaks on scheduling tee times. You could go from backed to empty when everyone just decides to walk off the course. Not to mention how do you monitor their play.

Just thought it was odd.
Why not just add foot golf in as an added benefit? You could also rent boom boxes. Let's grow the game!

Footgolf has seriously become a thing here in NJ... hate it.
Our course spent big $ putting in the hole liners and flags.  They haven't been used in years and all the flags rotted away, and the hole covers are bent from mowing equipment, but they are still there, an eyesore on our course.  This year they have replaced all the flags but still no play. Plus the prices to occupy the course is far less than standard green fees.  My experience shows it's a huge loss for our sport.  Put the stupid things in the park somewhere.
I was walking behind a bunch of footgolfers in the parking lot a few weeks ago, and I heard them taking about their "putting" stroke being off. I just rolled my eyes.

Do they try new shoes or rotate shoes to go with the "hot" one?

:)

Here in Ohio, footgolf is popular among the couple Metroparks courses that have setups. Both are on the Par 3 courses and provide extra revenue since playing a par 3 course seems to be passe, particularly when there is an 18 hole regular course on the same property.

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#696 stlouismark

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

Turnberry and Trump National links in Scotland lost $25 million last year

https://www.golfdige...ollar25-million

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#697 Break81

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:46 PM

View Poststlouismark, on 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Turnberry and Trump National links in Scotland lost $25 million last year

https://www.golfdige...ollar25-million

  I am sure there is much more to the story - How much money was spent trying to land a major?   Was this strictly operational cost versus revenue?
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#698 uitar9

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:53 PM

View Poststlouismark, on 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Turnberry and Trump National links in Scotland lost $25 million last year

https://www.golfdige...ollar25-million

Interesting. I don't know much about classic tracts in remote areas of Scotland, but I hear many of these top 100's are basically closed to the public, have hundreds of millions spent on 5 star resorts, are located in areas with constant cold and rain and often are bought out of bankruptcy.

Maybe its not golf dying, but these overpriced exclusive resorts.

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#699 Break81

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:08 PM

View Postuitar9, on 10 October 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

View Poststlouismark, on 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Turnberry and Trump National links in Scotland lost $25 million last year

https://www.golfdige...ollar25-million

Interesting. I don't know much about classic tracts in remote areas of Scotland, but I hear many of these top 100's are basically closed to the public, have hundreds of millions spent on 5 star resorts, are located in areas with constant cold and rain and often are bought out of bankruptcy.

Maybe its not golf dying, but these overpriced exclusive resorts.

Lots to consider for sure. Sports franchises will report operational losses, but they aren't reporting their gains on merchandise and concessions. Simply ticket sales.  Lots of way to report losses to help with taxes in such.

Not saying they aren't losing money, but nobody is in business to take that kind of hit YoY.
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#700 MaddMaxx

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:09 AM

View PostNevinW, on 05 August 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

It isn't dying.  The economy hasn't recovered enough and that is the primary problem.  Golfsmith's problems sounds like it is a bunch of bad real estate deals and leases more than anything.  Nike getting out is hardly a surprise.  How many great golf club manufacturers have gone away over the years?  Remember Macgregor, Powerbilt, Wilson (to a lessor extent)?  These were the main club companies when I started playing.  When the economy improves and there is more disposable income, golf will expand again.

I hate to brake it to you but the economy is as good as it will get. This is the permanent recession and it aint going to end in our lifetime.


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#701 Pepperturbo

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:16 PM

Every industry expands and self-corrects.  We're NOT in a recession either.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 18 October 2017 - 03:18 PM.

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#702 cowbomb02

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:38 AM

went to play 18 holes a few weeks ago and it was paaaaacked. I dont think golf will be dying any time soon.

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#703 Llortamaisey

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 05:28 AM

Is golf not dead yet? I feel like this thread has been going on for over a year. Golf is like a turd that won’t flush.

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#704 thug the bunny

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 06:47 AM

Why isn't this thread dying?
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#705 new2g0lf

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:35 AM

View Poststlouismark, on 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Turnberry and Trump National links in Scotland lost $25 million last year

https://www.golfdige...ollar25-million

That's likely due to the amortized costs to develop the course embedded in the P&L.  Running at a loss on the financials is how Trump businesses run, reduces their overall tax burden.


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#706 kgeisler13

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:47 AM

I will say this time and time again.  Golf is an expense sport especially if you play alot or you're a solid player and play a lot.  I have friends that enjoy the sport but don't buy the best equipment and don't play a whole lot because they don't have the money, there is my other group of friends and myself who play every weekend and are getting a new club(s) every year.  I think there needs to be a happy medium for price of clubs and the price of a green fee.  I think $1200 for a set of good irons is nuts.  I am lucky enough that I know pros who can get me discounts.  I love golf and I am a golf junky, so I will spend the money, but I enjoy playing with my friends who aren't as good and can't spend the money.
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#707 North Butte

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:51 AM

I have owned at least a dozen sets of irons in my life including several purchased brand new. None of them have cost even half of $1,200 and the average cost has been around $400-$450. The cost of a set of "good irons" that you use for several hundred rounds is trivial.
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#708 kgeisler13

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 12:25 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 19 October 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have owned at least a dozen sets of irons in my life including several purchased brand new. None of them have cost even half of $1,200 and the average cost has been around $400-$450. The cost of a set of "good irons" that you use for several hundred rounds is trivial.

I just order Mizuno MP-18 SC's and they are $125 a club.  When was the last time you purchased irons and whats "good"?
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#709 Argonne69

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

View Postkgeisler13, on 19 October 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 19 October 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have owned at least a dozen sets of irons in my life including several purchased brand new. None of them have cost even half of $1,200 and the average cost has been around $400-$450. The cost of a set of "good irons" that you use for several hundred rounds is trivial.

I just order Mizuno MP-18 SC's and they are $125 a club.  When was the last time you purchased irons and whats "good"?

A nice used set of Mizuno MP-64's or MP-4's are less than $500. 'Pretty darn close to a new MP-18 SC or MP-18.

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#710 North Butte

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 05:11 PM

View Postkgeisler13, on 19 October 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 19 October 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have owned at least a dozen sets of irons in my life including several purchased brand new. None of them have cost even half of $1,200 and the average cost has been around $400-$450. The cost of a set of "good irons" that you use for several hundred rounds is trivial.

I just order Mizuno MP-18 SC's and they are $125 a club.  When was the last time you purchased irons and whats "good"?

Ping G20's for $520. Ping G's for $560. Mizuno JPX 850 Forged for $460. Those were all brand new. Plus many new-old-stock or store demo ones for $400 or less. My first new set of Titleist DCI 990 for $420.

I'm glad you like your $1,000 set of irons. Your buying them has nothing to do with what someone else has to spend to get "good" irons.

P.S. I'm sure you can find some PXG fan who will laugh at your contention that a $1,000 set of Mizunos is "good".

Edited by North Butte, 19 October 2017 - 05:12 PM.

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#711 Break81

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 06:03 PM

View Postkgeisler13, on 19 October 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

I will say this time and time again.  Golf is an expense sport especially if you play alot or you're a solid player and play a lot.  I have friends that enjoy the sport but don't buy the best equipment and don't play a whole lot because they don't have the money, there is my other group of friends and myself who play every weekend and are getting a new club(s) every year.  I think there needs to be a happy medium for price of clubs and the price of a green fee.  I think $1200 for a set of good irons is nuts.  I am lucky enough that I know pros who can get me discounts.  I love golf and I am a golf junky, so I will spend the money, but I enjoy playing with my friends who aren't as good and can't spend the money.
    I personally believe it’s only expensive if you have other things you prefer to spend your money on.  My golf budget of playing 4 times a month (balls, greens fees etc ) probably runs me less than $200 a month.  I have a relative who thinks that’s a lot of money but he has not problem bar hopping every weekend and paying $10 for drink. His monthly bar tab is more than my golf habit.

      Some people like to drive expensive cars or have the latest iPhone , it all adds up.  I take my lunch to work most days while my other buddy spends $7-$10 a day eating out.

   Basically , life is expensive , it’s up to the individual on how you want to spend your money.
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#712 thug the bunny

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:07 PM

View PostBreak81, on 19 October 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

View Postkgeisler13, on 19 October 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

I will say this time and time again.  Golf is an expense sport especially if you play alot or you're a solid player and play a lot.  I have friends that enjoy the sport but don't buy the best equipment and don't play a whole lot because they don't have the money, there is my other group of friends and myself who play every weekend and are getting a new club(s) every year.  I think there needs to be a happy medium for price of clubs and the price of a green fee.  I think $1200 for a set of good irons is nuts.  I am lucky enough that I know pros who can get me discounts.  I love golf and I am a golf junky, so I will spend the money, but I enjoy playing with my friends who aren't as good and can't spend the money.
I personally believe it’s only expensive if you have other things you prefer to spend your money on.  My golf budget of playing 4 times a month (balls, greens fees etc ) probably runs me less than $200 a month.  I have a relative who thinks that’s a lot of money but he has not problem bar hopping every weekend and paying $10 for drink. His monthly bar tab is more than my golf habit.

  Some people like to drive expensive cars or have the latest iPhone , it all adds up.  I take my lunch to work most days while my other buddy spends $7-$10 a day eating out.

   Basically , life is expensive , it’s up to the individual on how you want to spend your money.

Exactly. That's why it is called discretionary spending. I know a couple buddies who play every week but spend a lot of money on home brewing and photography but play walmart northwestern clubs and play horrible, and whenever I suggest that if they get some good clubs they might play better they are just like 'eh, whatever..'
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#713 kgeisler13

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:59 AM

Those are great irons, I had a set of MP-64s that I loved.  I meant $1,200 for brand new retail irons off the shelf.  I'm all for buying used clubs, I do myself sometimes but someone had to buy those brand new for you to get them used.  Personally I wouldn't spend over $850 on a set of new irons.  Usually I only get new irons every 4 or 5 years.  I'm just saying if someone who doesn't know anything about golf and has no friends to ask a $1200 retail tag at golf galaxy might push them away.
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#714 Benflicky

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 05:10 PM

No way it's dying

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#715 stlouismark

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:28 PM

View PostBenflicky, on 20 October 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

No way it's dying

Ha. Ok itís settled then.


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#716 North Butte

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:32 PM

View Poststlouismark, on 22 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

View PostBenflicky, on 20 October 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

No way it's dying

Ha. Ok it’s settled then.

That's a relief. To be honest, I was quite worried.
Engaged in the eternal search for the elusive Swedish meatball cores...

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#717 thug the bunny

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:11 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 22 October 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

View Poststlouismark, on 22 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

View PostBenflicky, on 20 October 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

No way it's dying

Ha. Ok it’s settled then.

That's a relief. To be honest, I was quite worried.

End of thread.
The absolute perfection of existence, life, and aesthetic beauty is the work not only of evolution but of a powerful being.

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#718 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:48 AM

Someone mentioned recession and it is here to stay, another said we are not in a recession. The market is way up, but this has not benefited many. And the Feds are thinking about raising rates. The recession is real and continues for many, myself included. My 401 is still hurting from 2008 and no signs of catching back up to 2007 anytime soon. At 52 I am as aggressive as I can be so, little options. What I see is a widening of the gap between the haves and the haves less. For the haves, the recession is over. For the haves less, costs out paced income and does not look like this will change. I am a teacher and discretionary spending is almost erased from my dictionary. As for golf, I have to pick and choose when I can play, often opting for the fees that give most bang for the buck, and I play less often than i used to, or want to. One course is $65, but every thursday there is a lowball tournament for $48 which includes a meal and a chance for prizes. Twilight is my other option, $35, but it is dark and day is done by the 18th hole.
For many, golf is pricing itself out of monthly budgets.
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#719 Argonne69

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

Recession: A significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales.

The Great Recession lasted from December 2007 until June 2009. The U.S. GDP dipped 0.3% in 2008, and 2.8% in 2009. Unemployment briefly reached 10%.

The U.S. GDP has risen from $14,418 billion in 2009 to $18,569 billion in 2016. It has grown ~$520 billion a year since 2009, a rate of close to 4% a year.

The U.S. unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in May 2017, the lowest since May 2001.

So, no, we are not in a recession, and haven't been in one since 2009.

Curious, did you change your allocations in your 401k in 2008? The S&P 500 was at 757 in March 2009, down from a high of 1520 in July 2007. It is currently at 2575, up 69% from 2007. If you didn't touch your funds you should have returned to the 2007 levels in early 2013, and be up significantly since then. This is a classic example of why long term investors shouldn't tamper with their 401k when the market turns.

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#720 jslane57

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:31 PM

View Postthug the bunny, on 22 October 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 22 October 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

View Poststlouismark, on 22 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

View PostBenflicky, on 20 October 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

No way it's dying

Ha. Ok it’s settled then.

That's a relief. To be honest, I was quite worried.

End of thread.
This thread will never end. Well, not until golf does. And even then, it will continue under the name, "Sooooo, did golf die?"

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