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6 months of MySwingEvolution

christo garcia myswingevolution

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#1 thebravery

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:27 AM

Started reinventing my swing about six months ago using MySwingEvolution by Christo Garcia (myswingevolution.com). Put in about 2 hours a day on the range, every day, and studied Hogan’s and Christo’s swings the rest of the time. I’ve watched and re-watched the Hogan Code and every MSE YouTube video. There may be others who’ve put in more work on inculcating MSE in their swing but I haven’t seen them.

The results have been mixed. Christo’s swing is great, his swing thoughts are intuitive and you learn a lot of things about a kind of a “classic” swing (there is no one classic swing). But there are few drills and little advice on how to make it part of your own swing. So you end up spending a lot of time trying different ways to do the Hogan Roll, the squeeze pivot, the push/pull etc. Worse, I found that some of those fight each other. Doing the stretch in “load, stretch and release” fought the hip/slide. The videos look great. They make perfect sense. And then you get to the range and it’s like — how do I even do this? It makes me respect Christo even more.

I think I’ll stick with MSE, but I’m going to pivot away from relying on it as much as I do. I often wonder to myself whether the words he states have hurt as many golfers as they have helped. But I’d love to hear from others who've tried MSE.

Edited by thebravery, 03 July 2016 - 08:27 AM.


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#2 sethdavidsdad

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:02 AM

I think most on here will agree you should move on. There is another thread on here talking about his teaching. In that thread his swing is discussed. Most will tell you his swing is not good at all and his teaching is worse. The fact that you spent 2 hours a day on the range for six months you should improve with any method. Further proving his ideas are just bad ideas. I suggest you look at the other thread before you spend anymore time with his ideas. Plenty of free videos on YouTube that will actually help you get better
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#3 bph7

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 12:10 PM

Run, don't walk elsewhere.  Christo is a nice guy and his videos have great production quality and are entertaining, but as previous poster said, Christos swing hasn't changed much, he just got better at doing what he was doing, and he's NOT a teacher.

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#4 starsail85

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 01:02 PM

Doesn't the guy shoot in the mid 80s? I don't get it
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#5 bph7

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 01:19 PM

View Poststarsail85, on 03 July 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Doesn't the guy shoot in the mid 80s? I don't get it

I think he's apparently like a 5. Which means that yes probably half his rounds would be in the 80s. One on of the live play videos, he shot a 46 on nine playing match play on a 6000 yardish course.


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#6 Grayback1973

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 01:31 PM

The Hogan roll is simply a conscious flexing of the lead wrist during transition.Tom Bertrand teaches the same exact thing only he claims that Hogan showed John Schlee the move.In fact,Mike Cortson claims in his book that John Schlee showed him at a driving range this move and said that it was Hogans secret and he didn't put it in any of his books.

I have tried this move many times and it is extremely difficult to pull off in a full speed swing.I am not sure Christo even does it in his own swing.His release looks very flippy to me and I know he early extends.
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#7 thebravery

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 01:45 PM

Thanks for the feedback!

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#8 Santiago Golf

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 01:53 PM

Hogan swing was very unique for his time. What I have learned is alot of people don't release how different was equipment was and how hard he worked to achieve the consistency of his swing. And then alot of what has been written on Hogan swing is alot false truths. Hogan kept most of his swing secrets to himself or his small inner circle.

Christo is a pretty good golfer but I have noticed that he hits a ton of shots fat while hitting balls on the range and you can tell he his a little bit more talk and than walk. But I'll be honest, being a teacher, we all are; we are selling something.
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#9 PowderedToastMan

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 02:01 PM

I will admit, Christo should be a much better golfer with the swing he can put on the ball. That being said, he shouldn't teach. He barely knows how to fix his own swing, let alone others.
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#10 Timanator

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 08:14 AM

Hogan: Hips shoulders opens at impact. Head lowers as the core pulled the club low and left.
Cristo: hips slightly open and closed shoulders. Raises up to make up room because he is handsy with his release.

There are plenty of guys that are way closer to Hogan IMO.

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#11 tmb guy

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 04:41 PM

this guy is making hogan turn over in his grave and using his name to profit and the worst part is this guy is trying to teach between him and bebettergolf brendan they know about nothing about the golf swing
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#12 jgonz69

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:41 PM

How lame is it for someone to dig up a year old three to bash Christo. Why was Christo invited to the Hogan facilities? Were they telling him hogan was spinning in his grave from what Christo is doing? I think they are happy that he is honoring and keeping the memory of MR. Hogan alive.
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#13 PowderedToastMan

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:15 PM

View Postjgonz69, on 06 June 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

How lame is it for someone to dig up a year old three to bash Christo. Why was Christo invited to the Hogan facilities? Were they telling him hogan was spinning in his grave from what Christo is doing? I think they are happy that he is honoring and keeping the memory of MR. Hogan alive.
That or he has a lot of subscribers and Hogan desperately needed to sell equipment.
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#14 oikos1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

Dude is still "fiddling" with his address and just figured out where to position the ball in his stance.  Sign me up...



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#15 oikos1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:41 PM

View Postjgonz69, on 06 June 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

How lame is it for someone to dig up a year old three to bash Christo. Why was Christo invited to the Hogan facilities? Were they telling him hogan was spinning in his grave from what Christo is doing? I think they are happy that he is honoring and keeping the memory of MR. Hogan alive.

I'm not buying how someone who refers to Hogan as "Mr. Hogan" truly believes that...


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#16 tmb guy

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:48 PM

View Postjgonz69, on 06 June 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

How lame is it for someone to dig up a year old three to bash Christo. Why was Christo invited to the Hogan facilities? Were they telling him hogan was spinning in his grave from what Christo is doing? I think they are happy that he is honoring and keeping the memory of MR. Hogan alive.

i would guess in a qualifier or club championship for that matter he wont break 85 with his MR HOGAN swing its a joke and he actually has people sending him video's for analysis its really quite comical
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#17 PowderedToastMan

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:36 PM

When Christo is an old man, approaching the end of his mortal journey, he'll finally make the ultimate discovery regarding the Hogan Code "To swing like Hogan, you must be Ben Hogan".
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#18 tmb guy

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:29 AM

View Postjacksonalex, on 06 June 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

When Christo is an old man, approaching the end of his mortal journey, he'll finally make the ultimate discovery regarding the Hogan Code "To swing like Hogan, you must be Ben Hogan".
this
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#19 somaplr

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 02:53 PM

It's basically the equivalent to a 7 hdcp teaching The Tiger Woods method while wearing black pants and a red shirt - and that being the only similarity.  The Hogan-style hat is the real star of the show.

Edited by somaplr, 07 June 2017 - 02:55 PM.

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#20 Gamble Gamble

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

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#21 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 03:20 PM

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

Almost all instructors have some sort of 'gimmick.'  It's no longer the good ole days when sought out instructors had legitimate Tour success.  

Not that I care one iota, but truth is almost every instructor has some sort of gimmick





RH

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#22 Gamble Gamble

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 03:37 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

Almost all instructors have some sort of 'gimmick.'  It's no longer the good ole days when sought out instructors had legitimate Tour success.  

Not that I care one iota, but truth is almost every instructor has some sort of gimmick





RH

Many instructors have a gimmick for marketing but there is substance behind the gimmick.

Take for instance someone who uses a computer program to do their statistical analytics.  Anyone can just plug and chug the numbers into a system but the minute you need to do higher level analytics, you need a PROFESSIONAL who understands the numbers in and out to troubleshoot the issues.  

That is the difference between a good instructor and a charlatan.  The charlatan can fake it until a real issue comes up.
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#23 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:06 PM

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

Almost all instructors have some sort of 'gimmick.'  It's no longer the good ole days when sought out instructors had legitimate Tour success.  

Not that I care one iota, but truth is almost every instructor has some sort of gimmick





RH

Many instructors have a gimmick for marketing but there is substance behind the gimmick.

Take for instance someone who uses a computer program to do their statistical analytics.  Anyone can just plug and chug the numbers into a system but the minute you need to do higher level analytics, you need a PROFESSIONAL who understands the numbers in and out to troubleshoot the issues.  

That is the difference between a good instructor and a charlatan.  The charlatan can fake it until a real issue comes up.

99.5% of the teachers don't have the ability to make it on the PGA Tour.  And I would say that the vast majority of teachers could not make a D-II college team.  Yet, so many of them work with players that are clearly better than them and would always be better than them regardless of how much the teacher was able to work on their game.

How do they get to work with these players?

More or less it comes down to a gimmick.  They may not teach a Hogan swing gimmick, but they may have the gimmick of having a good *looking* golf swing and showing some competency to hit a golf ball, yet not anywhere near as well as the superior player that's interested in working with them.  So, what's the difference between working the Ben Hogan Swing Gimmick or the 'Teacher X has a swing that *looks* nice' gimmick?  

The same with the teacher that studies the various sciences of the golf swing or the anti-science teacher or the pro-technology teacher or the whisperer.  They are all forms of gimmicks.

And I don't have one issue with that.  I just want to take information and use to get better.  I don't care how good the golfer is if it helps improve my scores that's all that really matters.

Dr. Young-Hoo Kwon can't break 90 on a 6,000 yard course, but Tour players and coaches flock to see him.   Why?  Because he has a biomechanics 'gimmick' that they feel will help them become better players or better instructors.

I don't think he can troubleshoot issues all that well, but I do believe he helps golfers.  And I don't think that makes him a charlatan.







RH

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#24 jgonz69

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:59 PM

hmm who do i believe, people who have known hogan or are associated with the Hogan family, or some insignificant person on the internet?
christo is an old man? in late 40's maybe 50's? jeezus tmb you can't be serious
butch harmon probably couldn't break 80 ,yet he taught tiger and he's thought of as a god.
so a rocket scientest actually has to go to space to be taken seriously

think richie has it about right. and if not, nobody should take a lesson from anybody less that top 10 pga golfers
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#25 bph7

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 10:47 PM

Butch won on tour, so he's not the best example.  I personally have found that an instructor is much more likely to better at improving someone's swing if they've been very proficient at what they are teaching at some point. I personally have not ever had a lesson from an instructor I'd consider even decent that wasn't at least a traveling scratch at some point. There are probably exceptions, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to find them.


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#26 Gamble Gamble

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:28 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

99.5% of the teachers don't have the ability to make it on the PGA Tour.  And I would say that the vast majority of teachers could not make a D-II college team.  Yet, so many of them work with players that are clearly better than them and would always be better than them regardless of how much the teacher was able to work on their game.

How do they get to work with these players?

More or less it comes down to a gimmick.  They may not teach a Hogan swing gimmick, but they may have the gimmick of having a good *looking* golf swing and showing some competency to hit a golf ball, yet not anywhere near as well as the superior player that's interested in working with them.  So, what's the difference between working the Ben Hogan Swing Gimmick or the 'Teacher X has a swing that *looks* nice' gimmick?  

The same with the teacher that studies the various sciences of the golf swing or the anti-science teacher or the pro-technology teacher or the whisperer.  They are all forms of gimmicks.

And I don't have one issue with that.  I just want to take information and use to get better.  I don't care how good the golfer is if it helps improve my scores that's all that really matters.

Dr. Young-Hoo Kwon can't break 90 on a 6,000 yard course, but Tour players and coaches flock to see him.   Why?  Because he has a biomechanics 'gimmick' that they feel will help them become better players or better instructors.

I don't think he can troubleshoot issues all that well, but I do believe he helps golfers.  And I don't think that makes him a charlatan.

RH

I respect your opinion Rich, as your analytical mind is rare, but it seems like you are defending this guy when the evidence to support his methods is minimal.  I DID NOT mention his lack of skill set as a player since it does not always directly correlate to teaching proficiency.  Please don't straw man my point to make it easier to poke holes in.  

My point was that it seems like he would not be able to adapt to a student who was not in the normal range of bad.  That factor does tie into his teaching proficiency and what most would consider the difference between a bad teacher and a good teacher.  

*Then add into that the fact that teaching hogans swing is going the way of the dodo along with teaching the reverse C thanks to better understanding in biomechanics.

*Then add in that he is not a great golfer.  *not a main point but important in the whole picture*

*Then add in he is trying to sell golf instruction.  

How is this any different than someone selling mineral water as a cure for the flu?  Yeah it may hit and work a few times, but many of those students probably would have got better regardless.  

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

Almost all instructors have some sort of 'gimmick.'  It's no longer the good ole days when sought out instructors had legitimate Tour success.  

Not that I care one iota, but truth is almost every instructor has some sort of gimmick

RH

Yes but the gimmick should not be the only reason you are going with them beyond the first lesson.  You may go into a Hardee's because of their scantily clad women commercials, but if they want you go back after the initial visit, they better have some tasty burgers...


View Postjgonz69, on 07 June 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

hmm who do i believe, people who have known hogan or are associated with the Hogan family, or some insignificant person on the internet?
christo is an old man? in late 40's maybe 50's? jeezus tmb you can't be serious
butch harmon probably couldn't break 80 ,yet he taught tiger and he's thought of as a god.
so a rocket scientest actually has to go to space to be taken seriously

think richie has it about right. and if not, nobody should take a lesson from anybody less that top 10 pga golfers

Great post if someone doesn't fact check it.  Butch won on tour, not my point, but evidence that you are arguing from emotion not logic.  If Christos was doing a Dan Plan vlog then he would not catch as much criticism.  Keep in mind you are on a golf instruction forum of generally well-read, golf hyper-enthusiasts and many can spot a fugazi from miles away.  If he didn't want to be criticized he should not have got into the golf web celebrity instructor space.  

There is little room for error in tha space... thankfully in part to this website... and google...


Edited by Gamble Gamble, 08 June 2017 - 12:02 AM.

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#27 oikos1

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:21 AM

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostGamble Gamble, on 07 June 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

The question i would ask is:  

If he did not have a gimmick (Hogan swag) would you ever pay this guy for lessons?

Almost all instructors have some sort of 'gimmick.'  It's no longer the good ole days when sought out instructors had legitimate Tour success.  

Not that I care one iota, but truth is almost every instructor has some sort of gimmick





RH

Many instructors have a gimmick for marketing but there is substance behind the gimmick.

Take for instance someone who uses a computer program to do their statistical analytics.  Anyone can just plug and chug the numbers into a system but the minute you need to do higher level analytics, you need a PROFESSIONAL who understands the numbers in and out to troubleshoot the issues.  

That is the difference between a good instructor and a charlatan.  The charlatan can fake it until a real issue comes up.

99.5% of the teachers don't have the ability to make it on the PGA Tour.  And I would say that the vast majority of teachers could not make a D-II college team.  Yet, so many of them work with players that are clearly better than them and would always be better than them regardless of how much the teacher was able to work on their game.

How do they get to work with these players?

More or less it comes down to a gimmick.  They may not teach a Hogan swing gimmick, but they may have the gimmick of having a good *looking* golf swing and showing some competency to hit a golf ball, yet not anywhere near as well as the superior player that's interested in working with them.  So, what's the difference between working the Ben Hogan Swing Gimmick or the 'Teacher X has a swing that *looks* nice' gimmick?  

The same with the teacher that studies the various sciences of the golf swing or the anti-science teacher or the pro-technology teacher or the whisperer.  They are all forms of gimmicks.

And I don't have one issue with that.  I just want to take information and use to get better.  I don't care how good the golfer is if it helps improve my scores that's all that really matters.

Dr. Young-Hoo Kwon can't break 90 on a 6,000 yard course, but Tour players and coaches flock to see him.   Why?  Because he has a biomechanics 'gimmick' that they feel will help them become better players or better instructors.

I don't think he can troubleshoot issues all that well, but I do believe he helps golfers.  And I don't think that makes him a charlatan.







RH

Wow. I would've thought as someone in the golf teaching/analytics profession, you wold be concerned about the quality and credibility of instruction and it's impact on the golf teaching profession as a whole.. No need to answer your question because you just threw the entire golf instruction world under the bus and put Butch and Christo in the same "gimmick" class.

It's no wonder every other day on WRX there is a "Golf Instruction Sucks" thread.

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#28 MountainGoat

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:38 AM

I think you guys are all being way too hard on Cristo.  I've studied Hogan's swing since 1979, so I've got about 38 years of experience on this topic.  I've read everything there is to read and watched everything there is to watch.  Cristo's interpretation is pretty darned close.  By 100 miles, the most important aspect in my opinion is the way Hogan released the club thru the ball.  Everything else supports that fundamental move.  When Cristo talks about "push/pull", I can tell he's beginning to get to the heart of the issue.  But, there are a number of ways to accomplish this, and people get stuck in Hogan's personal solution.  It's up to the individual golfer to discover the way that best suits his fundamental swing tendencies.

Edited by MountainGoat, 08 June 2017 - 07:42 AM.


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#29 somaplr

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 08 June 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think you guys are all being way too hard on Cristo.  I've studied Hogan's swing since 1979, so I've got about 38 years of experience on this topic.  I've read everything there is to read and watched everything there is to watch.  Cristo's interpretation is pretty darned close.  By 100 miles, the most important aspect in my opinion is the way Hogan released the club thru the ball.  Everything else supports that fundamental move.  When Cristo talks about "push/pull", I can tell he's beginning to get to the heart of the issue.  But, there are a number of ways to accomplish this, and people get stuck in Hogan's personal solution.  It's up to the individual golfer to discover the way that best suits his fundamental swing tendencies.

You can't release thru the ball when you've already released before impact.  Christo's right elbow is 3-4 inches outside his right pocket at impact.  What has he told his students to do that has fixed stuff?  He screwed up one poor kid on the range so bad his elbow was behind his back at impact - it was wild.  It was on video last year at some point not sure if its still up.

Edited by somaplr, 08 June 2017 - 09:05 AM.

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#30 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:02 AM

View Postoikos1, on 08 June 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

Wow. I would've thought as someone in the golf teaching/analytics profession, you wold be concerned about the quality and credibility of instruction and it's impact on the golf teaching profession as a whole.. No need to answer your question because you just threw the entire golf instruction world under the bus and put Butch and Christo in the same "gimmick" class.

It's no wonder every other day on WRX there is a "Golf Instruction Sucks" thread.

I'm not a golf instructor.  And I don't believe I'm a swing expert.

I do believe I'm an expert in taking lessons and working on my swing and knowing what can help and what doesn't.

And like I said, I don't have a problem with a teacher using a gimmick.  You have to use something to promote your services.  

What I've found is that no teacher has anywhere near all of the answers and in reality you're picking up pieces of information.  Some teachers you're picking up huge chunks of information, others you may pick up only 1 piece of good information that works pretty well.  And more often than not, you're picking up information that works with certain people and other certain corresponding mechanics.  So I have found that thru my years of taking lessons and learning the golf swing that the playing proficiency of the person presenting the information means very little to me.

I've learned some interesting things from studying Dr. Young-Hoo Kwon's work and I'm telling you that the guy couldn't break 90 on a 6,000 yard course.  He's had numerous Tour players come to him and hundreds of instructors come to him and his seminars.  If these people worried about his playing proficiency, they would have never bothered to hear him say 1 word about the golf swing.  

The same with so many instructors out there that never had the talent to make it to the Tour and hit it with a Tour level capability...yet they are teaching Tour players.  They never had the proficiency to strike it as well as a Tour player.  So why do Tour players work with these instructors?  Because they can help them understand what they need to do in order for them to play better.  And that's what really matters.







RH


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