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For those that have applied the GG pivot


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#61 Dave D

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:06 AM

Great to have Heath posting again and boy does his video that he posted look good!

this is a great thread with valuable information so hopefully it wont get derailed at somepoint like others have in the past.

his teachings and videos certainly interest me especially regarding the setup. love scrolling through his instagram.

I know he likes the butt tucked under and armpits knees and balls of feet in a line.... but what is the reasoning for this? I know its what the older players did but how does this help with early extension etc?

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#62 hakky

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:13 AM

If the butt is under you would not have the tendency to suck the butt under you prior impact. Which makes it impossible to rotate or pivot like he wants it

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#63 BeTheBall_

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 08:00 AM

Latest upload on his youtube covers the setup briefly (about 4:40) plus some other good stuff

https://www.youtube....h?v=tw7swGcoyEg

Edited by BeTheBall_, 22 June 2016 - 08:02 AM.


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#64 gators78

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:11 AM

Is there an emphasis to look at the target at impact like Duval and Sorenstam? Noticed this not only with a lot of George students, but also Butch and his stable have started to do that (DJ, Jimmy Walker who used to be the total opposite, Snedeker, etc).
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#65 deific

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:22 AM

Link to what this is?


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#66 Redjeep83

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

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#67 PutterKilledTheDream

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:55 AM

I heard from a legit source that CH3 was really struggling nailing the pivot.

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#68 BigD

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 10:11 AM

 Hstead, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

 gators78, on 22 June 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Is there an emphasis to look at the target at impact like Duval and Sorenstam? Noticed this not only with a lot of George students, but also Butch and his stable have started to do that (DJ, Jimmy Walker who used to be the total opposite, Snedeker, etc).

I believe it is just a result of rotating, nothing that is done consciously.  Someone made a remark about my swing when I was suspended stating "obviously Heath is trying very hard to rotate his head" and as usual that poster couldn't have been more incorrect.  He also stated that I couldn't see the ball, which too was incorrect. Your eyes move in your head, maybe he didn't understand that.

I put zero thought or effort into  rotating my head and I also do not take my eyes off of the ball.  It is just a result of the pivot.


Awesome!  I asked GG about head rotation as well. It's just a result. Not something he focuses on.

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#69 Golfbeat

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:11 AM

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

So who is this mysterious friend and instructor? And who does he work with on the PGA Tour. Full transparency please.
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#70 hankmoody

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:21 AM

The thing I like about George and his method is he makes it simple.  The temptation in golf learning and instruction too I suppose is to analyze every motion and risk over doing things.  With George (or any great teacher) you can be as simple as you want or dive deeper.

For me, when he says "it's that easy" I take his suggestions, and focus on the simple moves.  What's cool about seeing the juniors learn, is that's what they do.   See, feel, do.  Not easy as you get older I know, but possible.

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#71 bph7

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:32 AM

 Golfbeat, on 22 June 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

So who is this mysterious friend and instructor? And who does he work with on the PGA Tour. Full transparency please.

Redjeep,
Also, with regard to this friend, first I'd like to say that I am a almost positive I am smarter than him and I don't appreciate the incendiary comments you are making questioning members' intelligence. Second, does the friend co-teach pros with Dana?  You make it sound like they both teach the same tour guys. That is not a common arrangement with tour players, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it. Third, why are you talking about this friend and Dana?  You've been to see George and have gotten extensive instruction with him online, correct?  Since the thread is about GG, why not rely your personal experience?

Edited by bph7, 22 June 2016 - 11:33 AM.


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#72 Jacob Mac

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:37 AM

Rwdjeep, did you see GG before or after Kwon transformed his teaching on the pivot? How did GG's teaching change?

Edited by Jacob Mac, 22 June 2016 - 11:37 AM.


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#73 Stryker

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:42 AM

Here's any idea. Ignore Redjeep since he brings absolutely nothing to this thread. Just a thought.....

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#74 BeTheBall_

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:02 PM

 Stryker, on 22 June 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Here's any idea. Ignore Redjeep since he brings absolutely nothing to this thread. Just a thought.....

And it'll just lead to another GG thread lock...

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#75 hankmoody

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:04 PM

Agree --  the definition of insanity...

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#76 Redjeep83

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:27 PM

 bph7, on 22 June 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

 Golfbeat, on 22 June 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

So who is this mysterious friend and instructor? And who does he work with on the PGA Tour. Full transparency please.

Redjeep,
Also, with regard to this friend, first I'd like to say that I am a almost positive I am smarter than him and I don't appreciate the incendiary comments you are making questioning members' intelligence. Second, does the friend co-teach pros with Dana?  You make it sound like they both teach the same tour guys. That is not a common arrangement with tour players, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it. Third, why are you talking about this friend and Dana?  You've been to see George and have gotten extensive instruction with him online, correct?  Since the thread is about GG, why not rely your personal experience?

Members intelligence? I'm talking about the golf swing, you teach and study the golf swing for a living? He does. Second, extensive instruction from GG? I've always stated I took one lesson back in beginning of 2015, you guys are just making stuff up now. Lastly, I'm not giving his name out, sorry.

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#77 bph7

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:48 PM

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

 bph7, on 22 June 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

 Golfbeat, on 22 June 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

So who is this mysterious friend and instructor? And who does he work with on the PGA Tour. Full transparency please.

Redjeep,
Also, with regard to this friend, first I'd like to say that I am a almost positive I am smarter than him and I don't appreciate the incendiary comments you are making questioning members' intelligence. Second, does the friend co-teach pros with Dana?  You make it sound like they both teach the same tour guys. That is not a common arrangement with tour players, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it. Third, why are you talking about this friend and Dana?  You've been to see George and have gotten extensive instruction with him online, correct?  Since the thread is about GG, why not rely your personal experience?

Members intelligence? I'm talking about the golf swing, you teach and study the golf swing for a living? He does. Second, extensive instruction from GG? I've always stated I took one lesson back in beginning of 2015, you guys are just making stuff up now. Lastly, I'm not giving his name out, sorry.

Fair enough. So does he co-teach with Dana to these tour pros?  Cuz I know a guy who sees Dana like everyday and has never heard about co-teaching. Second, was your lesson with GG before or after the Kwon pivot revelations?  Did you guys discuss how Kwon influenced his teaching? Did GG tell you that he changed his teaching style after Kwon?

Edited by bph7, 22 June 2016 - 12:49 PM.


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#78 Redjeep83

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:53 PM

 bph7, on 22 June 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

 bph7, on 22 June 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

 Golfbeat, on 22 June 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

 Redjeep83, on 22 June 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Regarding the pivot, I'm specifically talking about Dana's pivot, which is sure alot like what George teaches. I was talking with a friend and instructor of mine, who knows a heck of alot more than you might think you know or I do. He works on the pga tour with players, some of them the same players that Dana teaches and is friends with Dana. He goes to all the modern schools like kwon etc etc to learn as all good instructors do and he is a very bright young instructor, alot smarter than you or I. I like to discuss these things with him when Im able to catch up with him for a lesson and I asked him about this pivot. He told me its greatly influenced by kwons research. Told me it can work for people who need it and pga pro's who have alot of time to learn and are skilled as its not the easiest thing to learn. I don't really care if George told you hes been teaching this same pivot all his teaching career, I highly doubt it but could be possible. George himself has said Chris is good friends with him and has learned a great deal from him. I'd be willing to bet for George that he has modified a good bit what he teaches since knowing chris and Kwon.

So who is this mysterious friend and instructor? And who does he work with on the PGA Tour. Full transparency please.

Redjeep,
Also, with regard to this friend, first I'd like to say that I am a almost positive I am smarter than him and I don't appreciate the incendiary comments you are making questioning members' intelligence. Second, does the friend co-teach pros with Dana?  You make it sound like they both teach the same tour guys. That is not a common arrangement with tour players, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it. Third, why are you talking about this friend and Dana?  You've been to see George and have gotten extensive instruction with him online, correct?  Since the thread is about GG, why not rely your personal experience?

Members intelligence? I'm talking about the golf swing, you teach and study the golf swing for a living? He does. Second, extensive instruction from GG? I've always stated I took one lesson back in beginning of 2015, you guys are just making stuff up now. Lastly, I'm not giving his name out, sorry.

Fair enough. So does he co-teach with Dana to these tour pros?  Cuz I know a guy who sees Dana like everyday and has never heard about co-teaching. Second, was your lesson with GG before or after the Kwon pivot revelations?  Did you guys discuss how Kwon influenced his teaching? Did GG tell you that he changed his teaching style after Kwon?

No co teaching, they have taught the same players though and are friends, players switch coaches. I only asked him about the pivot and that's what he told me.

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#79 Golfonthemind

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:08 PM

And there goes this thread, I second the ignore tactic.

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#80 Grayback1973

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:21 PM

I don't understand why these GG threads get so out of control.....very strange!!

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#81 RyanJHazy

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:20 PM

yea lets keep this on topic - i hate seeing these threads get shut down.  PM redjeep if you want, otherwise lets focus on the GG golf swing .

at P6 he wants the club face slightly closed right?  which , depending on your grip, will require some bending of left wrist, correct?   it seems kind of difficult to have your R arm in bicep curl position, but the club face also slightly closed at p6?
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#82 spider

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:38 PM

 Hstead, on 21 June 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

 Grayback1973, on 21 June 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

For those who know,does GG teach that knees remain flexed in transition and into impact?

George was teaching his pivot and lower body stuff way before he and Como became buddies, FACT.  I get my stuff first hand, not through some guy who knows some other guy, just for the record.  (Not directed at you Gray by the way)

The knees gain flex in transition, which is HUGELY important for the way he wants the lower body to work.  From P6, both knees should be flexed quite a bit at P6, it all depends from there what kind of shot you want to hit.  George basically has three ways from p6 through impact.

If you want to hit a lower fade, stay more flexed and do not extend as much,   If you want to hit a standard shot, normal height, extend less aggressive but extend the lead leg and right leg will follow.  If you want to hit a high trajectory, extend like crazy from P6 through impact and push the hips forward where the belt buckle is going to be way forward.  Make sense?

Didn't Como start teaching at Westlake where GG is currently?  Not at all saying anything about GG using Como/Kwon stuff I just thought they grew up in same town at about the same time.
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#83 RyanJHazy

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:44 PM

i've been able to apply a lot of it and scored some of my lowest rounds of the year recently with this thought / focus on the lower body.  i think what kills it for me is obviously a hit impulse.   that and lateral movement / dumping R shoulder under.  

so people that have done it well - you leave arms / hands up... then in transition, just focus on L knee towards target , flex right knee, and then turn body and everything else falls in place?  i.e. literally no thoughts about the arms or club or hitting the ball?
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#84 Kuchhhhhh

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:59 PM

 RyanJHazy, on 22 June 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

i've been able to apply a lot of it and scored some of my lowest rounds of the year recently with this thought / focus on the lower body.  i think what kills it for me is obviously a hit impulse.   that and lateral movement / dumping R shoulder under.  

so people that have done it well - you leave arms / hands up... then in transition, just focus on L knee towards target , flex right knee, and then turn body and everything else falls in place?  i.e. literally no thoughts about the arms or club or hitting the ball?

Exactly. Sitting into the right and leaving the arms up is key for me, my best days are with that in mind and there is no hit impulse. Took me awhile to trust it.
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#85 RyanJHazy

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:16 PM

yeah Kuch - i think the key phrase is "trust it"  

i can get it going on range pretty good when grooving balls... then a day or two passes and I'm on the course playing with buddies trying to score and I have trouble trusting it like you said and some bad habits creep in.

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#86 Hilts1969

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:29 PM

I either spin out or look like John Wayne,  left knee external,right knee flexion, hips rotating and hands staying up is 3 thoughts too many for me. My driving s the best it's ever been recently by just going down and then releasing up with the head set away from the ball.

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#87 gators78

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:37 PM

 Kuchhhhhh, on 22 June 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

 RyanJHazy, on 22 June 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

i've been able to apply a lot of it and scored some of my lowest rounds of the year recently with this thought / focus on the lower body.  i think what kills it for me is obviously a hit impulse.   that and lateral movement / dumping R shoulder under.  

so people that have done it well - you leave arms / hands up... then in transition, just focus on L knee towards target , flex right knee, and then turn body and everything else falls in place?  i.e. literally no thoughts about the arms or club or hitting the ball?

Exactly. Sitting into the right and leaving the arms up is key for me, my best days are with that in mind and there is no hit impulse. Took me awhile to trust it.

I get the leg piece, sounds like the next hurdle is really trusting leaving the arms up there without pulling/yanking.
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#88 Stryker

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:48 PM

Pushing the right arm away from you in the down swing should help the pulling. What is crazy is how pushing the right arm to the right while squatting pulls the right elbow in front of your right hip. Very counter intuitive.

Wall drill really helps with this.

Edited by Stryker, 22 June 2016 - 03:54 PM.


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#89 Kuchhhhhh

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:49 PM

 RyanJHazy, on 22 June 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

yeah Kuch - i think the key phrase is "trust it"  

i can get it going on range pretty good when grooving balls... then a day or two passes and I'm on the course playing with buddies trying to score and I have trouble trusting it like you said and some bad habits creep in.

And a big part of trusting it is having it ingrained enough. I am fortunate to practice 7 days a week and while it's still a work in progress I've done it enough where it's starting to come natural. There's a lot I still have to work on but I can trust where I'm at thus far by the work I've put in.

When I'm on the course my practice swing when I'm behind the ball is one where I get to p6 then kick up. Then once I'm over the ball and in the proper setup it all just happens naturally. It definitely takes time, that's for sure.
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#90 Redjeep83

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:25 PM

also didnt answer bph other question fully.

When I asked him he asked if I had ever heard of Kwons research with ground reaction forces, moment arms etc. He said what they are doing is based off Kwons research and they are trying to create the biggest moment arm possible. Leaving arms up, clearing hips almost backwards feeling and pushing up with right foot. Ive pretty much covered what else he told me in other posts in this thread. Not sure its exactly the same as what como teaches, doubt it,  but como does teach similar. Leaving hands up and clearing with body, check golf digest.


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