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For those that have applied the GG pivot


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#2071 Jsp3316

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:15 AM

What is the best feel to get crossed at the top and steep going back?


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#2072 B_of_H

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

 Go_Time, on 09 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced hitting really high iron shots when using this method? He always talks in his videos about how far his guys hit 8 irons from delofting...but I seem to be hitting very high shots with good contact. I'm using PX 6.5 shafts...so don't think it's a shaft issue.

it should be the opposite.  post a video to be sure but my guess is that you must be stalling/hanging back and flipping to get the ball up in the air.  Are you hitting it further or shorter?
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#2073 Go_Time

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:54 AM

 B_of_H, on 11 January 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

 Go_Time, on 09 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced hitting really high iron shots when using this method? He always talks in his videos about how far his guys hit 8 irons from delofting...but I seem to be hitting very high shots with good contact. I'm using PX 6.5 shafts...so don't think it's a shaft issue.

it should be the opposite.  post a video to be sure but my guess is that you must be stalling/hanging back and flipping to get the ball up in the air.  Are you hitting it further or shorter?

Definitely hitting irons further. I think too much tilt and/or front shoulder coming up too soon are main culprits. I hit it a bit lower and flatter when I do a freezer...but when I go in one motion it's noticeably higher. Not necessary a bad thing but PX 6.5 shafts should be flatter I reckon.

Although, maybe I just think they should be going lower but given the speed + distance, they're in reality going an appropriate height? For instance, the 35* 7-iron going about 195?

Edited by Go_Time, 11 January 2019 - 10:04 AM.


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#2074 NikeGolferTX

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

 Go_Time, on 11 January 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

 B_of_H, on 11 January 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

 Go_Time, on 09 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced hitting really high iron shots when using this method? He always talks in his videos about how far his guys hit 8 irons from delofting...but I seem to be hitting very high shots with good contact. I'm using PX 6.5 shafts...so don't think it's a shaft issue.

it should be the opposite.  post a video to be sure but my guess is that you must be stalling/hanging back and flipping to get the ball up in the air.  Are you hitting it further or shorter?

Definitely hitting irons further. I think too much tilt and/or front shoulder coming up too soon are main culprits. I hit it a bit lower and flatter when I do a freezer...but when I go in one motion it's noticeably higher. Not necessary a bad thing but PX 6.5 shafts should be flatter I reckon.

Although, maybe I just think they should be going lower but given the speed + distance, they're in reality going an appropriate height? For instance, the 35* 7-iron going about 195?
If you're getting loads of distance with lots of height, consider yourself lucky unless you play a links course. That ball flight will hold greens nicely. A lot of high ball hitters get lower in transition and then extend the legs which increases parametric acceleration through impact. I am personally not a fan of it, because it requires more timing and gets a little handsy at impact.

I get low-mid level ball flight that starts low and rises, but I keep my left leg in flexion through impact, similar to Dustin Johnson and other low ball hitters. My 7 launches at about 14-15 degrees. It's very advantageous in high wind conditions.

Also, if the intention post impact is to use your body to release of the club, instead of the hands, that too can also help you hit lower.

Edited by NikeGolferTX, 11 January 2019 - 03:50 PM.


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#2075 B_of_H

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

 Go_Time, on 11 January 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

 B_of_H, on 11 January 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

 Go_Time, on 09 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced hitting really high iron shots when using this method? He always talks in his videos about how far his guys hit 8 irons from delofting...but I seem to be hitting very high shots with good contact. I'm using PX 6.5 shafts...so don't think it's a shaft issue.

it should be the opposite.  post a video to be sure but my guess is that you must be stalling/hanging back and flipping to get the ball up in the air.  Are you hitting it further or shorter?

Definitely hitting irons further. I think too much tilt and/or front shoulder coming up too soon are main culprits. I hit it a bit lower and flatter when I do a freezer...but when I go in one motion it's noticeably higher. Not necessary a bad thing but PX 6.5 shafts should be flatter I reckon.

Although, maybe I just think they should be going lower but given the speed + distance, they're in reality going an appropriate height? For instance, the 35* 7-iron going about 195?

if its going further and you have the speed to swing those shafts then I wouldn't worry too much.  When I first started trying this move I had some inconsistency with flight.  Right now if anything I hit it a little lower but at one point I was hitting my irons stupid long and had to dial it back a bit to get more consistency.  I feel like I swing slow and about 80% length of what I used to and i'm getting more control of the ball flight and distance now.  There is no doubt IMO that this method creates a lot of speed.  (that being said my spin numbers have actually gone down)

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#2076 chigolfer1

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:56 PM

 NikeGolferTX, on 09 January 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

I've applied the GG pivot.

My transition is shallow, I'm open at impact with a bent right arm and I've never hit better in my life.
I've had a huge breakthrough this past couple of months and I thought I'd share the light bulb moments:

What I've learned is the correct tilts and where the upper and lower body are in relation to each other is the key to freeing up the swing.  

Steps 1-3 happen simultaneously:


1.) From the top of the backswing I feel external rotation of the left leg and the lead side of the pelvis tilting lower than the right side of the pelvis. As this is happening the lower body will slightly open up.


2.) I purposely keep my upper body facing towards my right foot while adding front and right bend. This part is HUGE! Remember, this is happening during the first step. So at this point, the lower body is rotating while you keep the upper body back.


3.) Let the right arm externally rotate. You can sort of feel the club shallowing in reaction to the lower body. Don't add any force to the club.


4.) This next sequence is difficult to explain: Once my left butt cheek is 'around', or behind me, I'm at P-5....that's when I start rotating the club head to the ball with my body. This is where I actually feel like the swing starts. Make sure the clubhead follows the swing arc and not down the line.


5.) Try to keep the upper body (shoulders) level with the ground as you're coming into contact. Most people will want to add in more right bend and swing the arms through at this point...don't, just keep turning. You will be surprised at how vertical your shoulders actually are, but they will feel level.

None of this will work if your backswing isn't setup properly. Also the COM needs to stay behind the body.
If you're hitting driver, disregard step 5 and instead add right bend and loads of pelvic thrust.

This is awesome. Have you taken lessons with him of any kind?

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#2077 NikeGolferTX

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 04:28 PM

 chigolfer1, on 11 January 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

 NikeGolferTX, on 09 January 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

I've applied the GG pivot.

My transition is shallow, I'm open at impact with a bent right arm and I've never hit better in my life.
I've had a huge breakthrough this past couple of months and I thought I'd share the light bulb moments:

What I've learned is the correct tilts and where the upper and lower body are in relation to each other is the key to freeing up the swing.  

Steps 1-3 happen simultaneously:


1.) From the top of the backswing I feel external rotation of the left leg and the lead side of the pelvis tilting lower than the right side of the pelvis. As this is happening the lower body will slightly open up.


2.) I purposely keep my upper body facing towards my right foot while adding front and right bend. This part is HUGE! Remember, this is happening during the first step. So at this point, the lower body is rotating while you keep the upper body back.


3.) Let the right arm externally rotate. You can sort of feel the club shallowing in reaction to the lower body. Don't add any force to the club.


4.) This next sequence is difficult to explain: Once my left butt cheek is 'around', or behind me, I'm at P-5....that's when I start rotating the club head to the ball with my body. This is where I actually feel like the swing starts. Make sure the clubhead follows the swing arc and not down the line.


5.) Try to keep the upper body (shoulders) level with the ground as you're coming into contact. Most people will want to add in more right bend and swing the arms through at this point...don't, just keep turning. You will be surprised at how vertical your shoulders actually are, but they will feel level.

None of this will work if your backswing isn't setup properly. Also the COM needs to stay behind the body.
If you're hitting driver, disregard step 5 and instead add right bend and loads of pelvic thrust.

This is awesome. Have you taken lessons with him of any kind?
Just online. I had a ggswingtips account where I'd study and he had a Facebook page where I could post my swing and he'd make comments every week.
I plan on seeing him later this year if possible.

I've had a lessons with Monte and Dan Whittaker over in the UK as well when I first started playing which really helped me learn the fundamentals.

All these guys are really good coaches!

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#2078 MysteryV

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 04:45 PM

For the folks who've used this method for several months or more, are you feeling any unexpected pains?  Tennis elbow?  Oddly sore knee? Lead shoulder pain?

I ask as many of these moves are very athletic, and unusual for many golfers.  The automatic shallowing of the trail arm specifically, is similar to the torques from throwing a ball - an activity which I personally used to do quite a bit, but as I've aged, leads to some really odd pains with repetition.
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#2079 Go_Time

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

How do you guys using this method approach shorter shots? At what range do you start using this move? 50 yard pitch....what do you do?

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#2080 chigolfer1

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:40 PM

 NikeGolferTX, on 11 January 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

 chigolfer1, on 11 January 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

 NikeGolferTX, on 09 January 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

I've applied the GG pivot.

My transition is shallow, I'm open at impact with a bent right arm and I've never hit better in my life.
I've had a huge breakthrough this past couple of months and I thought I'd share the light bulb moments:

What I've learned is the correct tilts and where the upper and lower body are in relation to each other is the key to freeing up the swing.  

Steps 1-3 happen simultaneously:


1.) From the top of the backswing I feel external rotation of the left leg and the lead side of the pelvis tilting lower than the right side of the pelvis. As this is happening the lower body will slightly open up.


2.) I purposely keep my upper body facing towards my right foot while adding front and right bend. This part is HUGE! Remember, this is happening during the first step. So at this point, the lower body is rotating while you keep the upper body back.


3.) Let the right arm externally rotate. You can sort of feel the club shallowing in reaction to the lower body. Don't add any force to the club.


4.) This next sequence is difficult to explain: Once my left butt cheek is 'around', or behind me, I'm at P-5....that's when I start rotating the club head to the ball with my body. This is where I actually feel like the swing starts. Make sure the clubhead follows the swing arc and not down the line.


5.) Try to keep the upper body (shoulders) level with the ground as you're coming into contact. Most people will want to add in more right bend and swing the arms through at this point...don't, just keep turning. You will be surprised at how vertical your shoulders actually are, but they will feel level.

None of this will work if your backswing isn't setup properly. Also the COM needs to stay behind the body.
If you're hitting driver, disregard step 5 and instead add right bend and loads of pelvic thrust.

This is awesome. Have you taken lessons with him of any kind?
Just online. I had a ggswingtips account where I'd study and he had a Facebook page where I could post my swing and he'd make comments every week.
I plan on seeing him later this year if possible.

I've had a lessons with Monte and Dan Whittaker over in the UK as well when I first started playing which really helped me learn the fundamentals.

All these guys are really good coaches!

Online definitely counts.  I wasn't sure if you were just doing this on your own or had gotten actual feedback from GG.  Your description was so specific, I figured it was the latter.


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#2081 Man_O_War

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time
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#2082 Lamb

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:38 AM

View PostMysteryV, on 11 January 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

For the folks who've used this method for several months or more, are you feeling any unexpected pains?  Tennis elbow?  Oddly sore knee? Lead shoulder pain?

I ask as many of these moves are very athletic, and unusual for many golfers.  The automatic shallowing of the trail arm specifically, is similar to the torques from throwing a ball - an activity which I personally used to do quite a bit, but as I've aged, leads to some really odd pains with repetition.

Well long term expect complications with your MCL and LCL left knee. The best swing is the one that gives you body the least amount of damage. Of course not everyone wants to play golf into their retirement so it's subjective.

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#2083 Dave D

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:46 PM

View PostMan_O_War, on 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time

thought this was a George Gankas thread not a Sean Foley thread
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#2084 melly9

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 01:39 PM

View PostMan_O_War, on 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time

I’ve experienced the exact opposite

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#2085 chigolfer1

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:40 PM

View PostMan_O_War, on 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time

Why do you think this?


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#2086 RichieHunt

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

View PostJsp3316, on 11 January 2019 - 05:15 AM, said:

What is the best feel to get crossed at the top and steep going back?

Trail shoulder has to be internally rotated.  Try and get the trail arm's humerus parallel to the ground and the forearm parallel to your spine at the top of the swing.






RH

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#2087 RichieHunt

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 07:51 AM

View PostMysteryV, on 11 January 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

For the folks who've used this method for several months or more, are you feeling any unexpected pains?  Tennis elbow?  Oddly sore knee? Lead shoulder pain?

I ask as many of these moves are very athletic, and unusual for many golfers.  The automatic shallowing of the trail arm specifically, is similar to the torques from throwing a ball - an activity which I personally used to do quite a bit, but as I've aged, leads to some really odd pains with repetition.

I haven't.  I usually wear a compression sleeve, but that was from tendonitis in my shoulder that I had before starting to work with GG.  

I believe most golfers could do his pivot if they worked at it.  They might not have the same type of range of motion as say Matthew Wolffe, but they can pull it off.  Physically, I think the biggest limitation would probably be in the hamstrings.  If they are very tight, it can be more difficult to rotate the pelvis and the hips.






RH

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#2088 chigolfer1

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 06:30 PM

View Postchigolfer1, on 14 January 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

View PostMan_O_War, on 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time

Why do you think this?

Still wondering

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#2089 Coy M

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:07 PM

View Postchigolfer1, on 15 January 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postchigolfer1, on 14 January 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

View PostMan_O_War, on 14 January 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

you will hurt your lower back with this guy's concepts. matter of time

Why do you think this?

Still wondering

+1

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#2090 Zitlow

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 10:51 PM

Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.


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#2091 lopey986

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 03:58 PM

View PostZitlow, on 15 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.

those are the extreme examples of a GG golf swing though. the guy is pretty flexible when it comes to working with all kinds of people but there are certinaly a few things he firmly believes help you hit the ball well. hard to read things like the article and not appreciate what he brings to the game.

https://www.golf.com...ing-coach-golf/

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#2092 Krt22

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:12 PM

View PostZitlow, on 15 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.

You don't need to get that gucci to get schoosie.

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#2093 sheldonjhacker

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:16 PM

View PostKrt22, on 16 January 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:

View PostZitlow, on 15 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.

You don't need to get that gucci to get schoosie.
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#2094 RichieHunt

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:21 PM

View PostZitlow, on 15 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.

There's not a swing coach out there that it does not take a ton of practice to master.  

Ruiz just made it to the Web.com Tour.  The majority of players on Tour struggled on the Web.com Tour their first year.

Even somebody like Bryson DeChambeau...was the worst Red Zone player (175-225 yards) on Tour his rookie season.  But, he adjusted and got better and now is the 5th ranked player in the world.

And when you're at that level, there's a lot to be said for 'talent.'  Some guys just have boatloads of talent and hand-eye coordination and that ability to repeat their swing to make it work.  I think Pat Perez is a great example of that.  He won the Western Amateur despite playing very little golf and using his friend's father's old Ping Eye 2's.  He got into a car accident and that greatly hampered his range of motion and I wouldn't say he has the best swing out there from a mechanics standpoint.  But, he has incredible coordination and makes it work.  

I am more interested in the improvement of a golfer.  Johnny didn't get any big offers from schools, he made it to the Mackenzie Tour where he got crushed and then found GG, won and qualified for the Web.com Tour in under 2 years.  

I think it's a tremendous accomplishment.

But, one could also show that from a statistical standpoint, Adam Scott's ballstriking improved statistically under GG (his putting went to hell).  Sung Kang is on the Tour and was not on the Tour before going to GG.  

I think GG is a good example of why the best coaches are the best coaches.  He's given countless lessons to all sorts of people and is smart enough and self aware enough that he knows how to make golfers better.  In the end, golf instruction is a people business.  You can recite every peer reviewed doctoral research paper by heart, have $100K+ in 3D motion capture, force plates and launch monitors in your fanciest studio and read 3D wrist graphs until your corneas start to bleed...but an instructor is only as good as they are at working with people and how self aware they are when their students fail.






RH

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#2095 Krt22

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

Did Ruiz get back status on the web.com tour?


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#2096 QMany

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Posted Yesterday, 12:25 PM

I followed Johnny around the Web.com event at my home course last summer. He missed the cut, no fault to his ball striking, just really poor short game, course management, and decision-making.
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