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For those that have applied the GG pivot


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#2041 Jakob 91

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 04:43 PM

https://youtu.be/MFV83aImqMs

This video links to ggswingtips and I think the guy in the video is George Gankas?! Confused now. Anybody?

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#2042 airjammer

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 04:49 PM

This is How I understand it..George started a pay site and had someone else run it. The guy (fish?) didnít handle people wanting to cancel their membership correctly and people start messaging gg himself via Instagram. Eventually gg gets fed up and disassociates himself with that site and starts george gankas golf

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#2043 Krt22

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:04 PM

View PostJakob 91, on 07 November 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

No, that is the site that was stolen essentially stolen from GG along with GGswingtips by some DB. Im not sure GG has his own site fully functional yet and from the NLU podcast is currently engaging in legal action against the guy who started all this mess.

I think the correct site is georgegankas.golf

But who is running ggswingtips and is it any good?

It's in the letter in the link I provided. Further explanation in the podcast I mentioned. Basically a 3rd party helped GG make the content and ran the site. At some point there was a falling out and some dubious actions by the site owner and it doesnt look like GG did a good job up front defining what content he owned and what he didnt. So yes its GG in the videos, but it's not GG running that site, so if you have issues or want to contact GG directly, you won't get any support through those websites.

If you like his stuff/patterns I'd stick to his free content on IG/youtube until the dust settles

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#2044 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:28 PM

Pretty much what everybody has stated here.  GGSwingTips is owned and operated by Andrew Fisher.  Fisher was/is a physical trainer who used to be the physical trainer for Bubba Watson.  Fisher also used to help run Kelvin Miyahira's site, Movement Towards Improvement.  

The ideas for Movement Towards Improvement were good, but the execution wasn't quite where it needed to be.  I believe Gabe got burned out and started to discover George.  Gabe took some time off and then got together with George, but hasn't really gotten back into golf with the same passion (golf can do that to you).  

Kelvin eventually started to do things on his own and did more research and altered many things he preached before.  The end result is the same, but some of the details were altered to more easily get to those end results.  Kelvin then was working on putting together a site, much like GGSwingTips, with his 2 certified teachers...Denny Lucas and Jeff Haas.  Both are out of Jupiter and worked on a series of videos with Kelvin that covered the golf swing and fitness exercises for the golf swing.  

Unfortunately, the week that the Web site was supposed debut, Kelvin suffered a stroke.  And before anybody asks...no, I do not know how Kelvin is doing.

Denny and Jeff decided to continue the Web site and they work with several promising players, including US Amateur Champion Victor Hovland.

In the meantime, Fisher started working with the GGSwingTips site and the YouTube channel with GG.  The execution and the concept was better than Movement Towards Improvement, but still is not the easiest to navigate.  However, it has a ton of information.  Even though GG no longer is involved with the GGSwingTips site and YouTube channel, I still belong to the site just in case I need to reference old information.

Fisher bought the rights to GGSwingTips.  GG started to have problems mainly because he was never allowed to see how many members he had and the membership levels, so he did not know if his deal with Fisher was on the up-and-up.  There was also issues with members canceling and I don't think he felt those were resolved to his liking.  And because Fisher owns GGSwingTips, he is keeping the site and the YouTube channel for now.






RH

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#2045 chigolfer1

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 07 November 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:



In the meantime, Fisher started working with the GGSwingTips site and the YouTube channel with GG.  The execution and the concept was better than Movement Towards Improvement, but still is not the easiest to navigate.  However, it has a ton of information.  Even though GG no longer is involved with the GGSwingTips site and YouTube channel, I still belong to the site just in case I need to reference old information.

Fisher bought the rights to GGSwingTips.  GG started to have problems mainly because he was never allowed to see how many members he had and the membership levels, so he did not know if his deal with Fisher was on the up-and-up.  There was also issues with members canceling and I don't think he felt those were resolved to his liking.  And because Fisher owns GGSwingTips, he is keeping the site and the YouTube channel for now.






RH

The last part is what I don't get.  GGSwingTips on youtube keeps coming out with new videos.  Are those just old videos that were in the bag before the split between him and GG?  Or, are these new ones that GG can't stop Fisher from videoing if he wants to?  If it's the latter, that's got to be very strange.

Edited by chigolfer1, 07 November 2018 - 06:49 PM.


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#2046 diablocrusher

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:56 PM

View PostJakob 91, on 07 November 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

No, that is the site that was stolen essentially stolen from GG along with GGswingtips by some DB. Im not sure GG has his own site fully functional yet and from the NLU podcast is currently engaging in legal action against the guy who started all this mess.

I think the correct site is georgegankas.golf

But who is running ggswingtips and is it any good?

No the videos coming out on YouTube are old content. Most of those people have already been published to the channel, but now I noticed heís editing together pieces from different videos together and tossing them up online as different swing areas, backswing, piviot, leg work etc.

All the original content between GG and the ggswingtips owner has been completed. Thereís even videos Iíve noticed heís put on YouTube that was previously content meant only for the membership site. He just needs to keep throwing content online for revenue. I really hope no one is still paying for that site.
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#2047 chigolfer1

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:09 PM

View Postdiablocrusher, on 07 November 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

View PostJakob 91, on 07 November 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

No, that is the site that was stolen essentially stolen from GG along with GGswingtips by some DB. Im not sure GG has his own site fully functional yet and from the NLU podcast is currently engaging in legal action against the guy who started all this mess.

I think the correct site is georgegankas.golf

But who is running ggswingtips and is it any good?

No the videos coming out on YouTube are old content. Most of those people have already been published to the channel, but now I noticed he's editing together pieces from different videos together and tossing them up online as different swing areas, backswing, piviot, leg work etc.

All the original content between GG and the ggswingtips owner has been completed. There's even videos I've noticed he's put on YouTube that was previously content meant only for the membership site. He just needs to keep throwing content online for revenue. I really hope no one is still paying for that site.

That is pretty crazy.  Starting to sound like one member breaking away from a band with the rights to the band's name and starting essentially a new band with the same name.

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#2048 Krt22

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:20 PM

Except in this case the new "band" isnt even a musician and isnt generating any new content. More like a producer who recorded and saved all the original music, locked out the original band, and is now distributing it using the brand and name they built

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#2049 snagy2000

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:30 PM

View Postchigolfer1, on 07 November 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

View Postdiablocrusher, on 07 November 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

View PostJakob 91, on 07 November 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

No, that is the site that was stolen essentially stolen from GG along with GGswingtips by some DB. Im not sure GG has his own site fully functional yet and from the NLU podcast is currently engaging in legal action against the guy who started all this mess.

I think the correct site is georgegankas.golf

But who is running ggswingtips and is it any good?

No the videos coming out on YouTube are old content. Most of those people have already been published to the channel, but now I noticed he's editing together pieces from different videos together and tossing them up online as different swing areas, backswing, piviot, leg work etc.

All the original content between GG and the ggswingtips owner has been completed. There's even videos I've noticed he's put on YouTube that was previously content meant only for the membership site. He just needs to keep throwing content online for revenue. I really hope no one is still paying for that site.

That is pretty crazy.  Starting to sound like one member breaking away from a band with the rights to the band's name and starting essentially a new band with the same name.

You mean, the Guns N Roses syndrome...It does happen and can ruin a great thing and harm their fans for like 20+ years...

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#2050 chigolfer1

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:11 PM

View PostKrt22, on 07 November 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Except in this case the new "band" isnt even a musician and isnt generating any new content. More like a producer who recorded and saved all the original music, locked out the original band, and is now distributing it using the brand and name they built

ok, agree, that's  better


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#2051 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:14 PM

Getting back to the discussion of the pivot, essentially I am getting the shaft to shallow out and getting more rotation, but I still do not have enough rotation and I'm still pulling down a little.  I'm just more 'pulling down the club from the inside' than letting my left arm jut out in transition.  However, I'm getting more rotation and less pulling as time goes by and the shaft is shallowing out more.

The Instagram video with Johnny Ruiz was quite helpful.  It made me realize that GG's pivot action is much more 'centered' that I thought.  I don't think it is 'stacked' ala S&T, but it's a very centered pivot revolving around rotation.

And it's interesting how the brain/body seeks to keep itself balanced.  When I start to get out of the centered pivot action, I start to make compensations to stay in balance.

What I have noticed is how I have to resist pushing off with the right foot.  At the same time, it's important for me to get the weight on the outside edge of my left foot in the downswing.  This is something GG taught me in my in-person lesson.  But, I just forgot about it over time.  That allows me to get enough pressure in my left foot to balance out the pressure between my right side and left side.

The big thing I've been visualizing is when I start the transition I am trying to get that right hip moving outward, towards the ball before the hands start moving.  That's not what actually happens, but that is the visual.  And if I have weight on the outside edge of my left foot, I can rotate and keep my tilts in tact.






RH

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#2052 Krt22

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:26 PM

Yes it's very centered. Oddly enough, despite AMG/GG sort of being at different sides of the current golf instruction spectrum, the AMG guys put out a recent video (forgot which one, very recent though) and Shaun Webb said he was once taught to think of the back-swing  like going up a spiral staircase in terms of how the body coils up and away from the ball

When I see the GG model backswing, I very much get the same visual, with the main difference the GG model the DS would mean coming right back the same spiral staircase.

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#2053 chigolfer1

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 04:25 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 08 November 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

Getting back to the discussion of the pivot, essentially I am getting the shaft to shallow out and getting more rotation, but I still do not have enough rotation and I'm still pulling down a little.  I'm just more 'pulling down the club from the inside' than letting my left arm jut out in transition.  However, I'm getting more rotation and less pulling as time goes by and the shaft is shallowing out more.

The Instagram video with Johnny Ruiz was quite helpful.  It made me realize that GG's pivot action is much more 'centered' that I thought.  I don't think it is 'stacked' ala S&T, but it's a very centered pivot revolving around rotation.

And it's interesting how the brain/body seeks to keep itself balanced.  When I start to get out of the centered pivot action, I start to make compensations to stay in balance.

What I have noticed is how I have to resist pushing off with the right foot.  At the same time, it's important for me to get the weight on the outside edge of my left foot in the downswing.  This is something GG taught me in my in-person lesson.  But, I just forgot about it over time.  That allows me to get enough pressure in my left foot to balance out the pressure between my right side and left side.

The big thing I've been visualizing is when I start the transition I am trying to get that right hip moving outward, towards the ball before the hands start moving.  That's not what actually happens, but that is the visual.  And if I have weight on the outside edge of my left foot, I can rotate and keep my tilts in tact.






RH


How are you getting your weight so far left without pushing off your right foot?  I thought, per GG's methods, that once you get that hip moved around that you definitely want to push off and get those hips releasing to the target?  His big thing is if you do it too early then you are early extending.   Believe me, not saying you're wrong as you've actually worked with him.  Just trying to clarify and make sure I didn't misinterpret any videos.

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#2054 Krt22

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:04 PM

Not a GG student, but I think you thinking of two different times. You are talking about the big kick up/extension once you are almost fully rotated and coming into impact, Richie is talking about getting into that position from the top of the swing without pushing off from the right foot, which is largely the key to the pivot he teaches.

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#2055 Fiveten03

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 10:38 AM

For those that are GG students, how did you get in contact to schedule an in person lesson? You can PM too, as I’d very much like to work with him. Thanks


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#2056 RichieHunt

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:38 PM

View PostFiveten03, on 10 November 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

For those that are GG students, how did you get in contact to schedule an in person lesson? You can PM too, as I’d very much like to work with him. Thanks

There's a phone number to call, but DO NOT call it.  Just text it to make an appointment.  I would just make an appointment at least 1 month ahead of time.






RH

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#2057 Golfjack

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 11:54 PM

IMO one of the biggest differences for Gankas way is that his image of the turn squat which pretty much everyone who has seen his videos have seen.  I did that for a while and too much of a good thing screwed me up.  I was kind of spinning out.  You can clearly see the unique legwork in his student's swings.  

It does seem like AMG is making it a point to go against Gankas stuff though.  It's fun.  I like it.  Personally I do think GG's stuff probably would work best in a personalized lesson or in person.  Although the turn squat thing is still confusing for me as since it doesn't really happen in a golf swing (though does encourage hip rotation).
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#2058 RichieHunt

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 12:37 AM

View PostGolfjack, on 11 November 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

IMO one of the biggest differences for Gankas way is that his image of the turn squat which pretty much everyone who has seen his videos have seen.  I did that for a while and too much of a good thing screwed me up.  I was kind of spinning out.  You can clearly see the unique legwork in his student's swings.  

It does seem like AMG is making it a point to go against Gankas stuff though.  It's fun.  I like it.  Personally I do think GG's stuff probably would work best in a personalized lesson or in person.  Although the turn squat thing is still confusing for me as since it doesn't really happen in a golf swing (though does encourage hip rotation).

In person lessons work the best with any teach worth their salt because the teacher can do some trial and error with the student and get a better understanding of what the student can and cannot do.

It also helps get some of the details to the big picture issues.

For instance, I struggle with tilting and getting right lateral bend too soon.  The left hip and left shoulder doesn't get low enough in transition and thus I get too much slide and not enough rotation.  But, why I don't get the left hip and left shoulder lower and get into early right lateral bend is something that would be best determined in an in-person lesson.  You  could do an online lesson and figure it out, but I think that it more of a guess.

GG's students have all different types of leg movements in transition.  Matthew Wolff's leg movement in the downswing looks nothing like Johnny Ruiz's.  And those movements don't look like Akshay Bhatia's.  Has a lot to do with their backswing, their clubface position at p4, backswing pelvic movements, etc.  

I would guess that 80% of the students he sees have a problem with pushing off the trail leg too early and what I call 'tilt and throw' instead of rotating until your body naturally tilts and delivers the club into the ball.  So a big reason for a lot of the similar leg and pivot drills from student to student is to combat a very common problem.  But that doesn't mean that as their pivot and swing progresses that the pivot action will be the same from student to student due to numerous factors that force students to pivot differently according to whatever matchups they need to make.





RH

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#2059 diablocrusher

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 03:18 PM

Looks like the GG instagram posted a video yesterday and tagging AMG in it - https://www.instagra.../p/BqQzt6-gQYj/

I find this stuff humorous, but AMG has almost made it a point to try and discredit GG's swing philosophy.  I understand a swing theory can't encompass every golfer so there is a need for different types of coaching styles but it appears AMG may just be a little jealous of GG's popularity.  Looking at George's track record though he's had plenty of success from junior golfers all the way up to the PGA tour.  Nothing to discredit there.

Richie - I do agree with you and your post about a key to the pivot is keeping everything centered.  In the past month or so I had a light bulb moment when I realized how much better contact I make when I can keep the pivot very centered.  The feeling is like what someone else stated, like going up a spiral staircase.  The feeling I have is really winding up the stair case while keep your pelvis very centered, the feeling is almost staying completely still, not even the tiniest bit of sway.

Part of this a-ha moment was I also finally get what GG says when during the backswing the right hip stay higher than the left, then as you come down to p4/p5 the hips start to level out.  Another big thing I've found that works best for me is the feeling of keeping both feet on the ground until after contact.  Looking at it on video this isn't reality, but that's the feeling that works best for me.  When I let my back foot come off the ground too early I start getting early extension, and an open face.  This move kills me when it comes to driver as well.
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#2060 RichieHunt

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 07:48 PM

The thing with talking about the golf swing is that it's not about 'if', it's about 'how?'  It's not if you have lag or too much lag, it's about how you're getting that lag.  It's not about if you have forward shaft lean at impact or if you have too much...it's about how you get that forward shaft lean.

Just like AMG's idea of 'drifting' the CoM and CoP forward in transition versus GG with no 'drift.'  It's not so much about so much about doing it, it's how it's being done.  

The one thing that has helped me recently is following GG's advice that at P4 the pressure in your right foot should be on the right heel and right instep.  I think for a player like Matsuyama who 'drifts' forward in transition, it's due to him having the pressure more towards the outside edge of the right foot at p4.  Then he shifts that pressure towards the instep before he starts pulling down with the hands.  This allows him to 'drift' towards the target in transition.



With GG's typical prescribed method (he does teach golfers that move off the ball to either increase Upper Thoracic Spine Extension or drift forward in transition)...because the pressure is on the right instep, the golfer doesn't need to drift forward.  They can simply torque the ground with their feet from that position at p4.

I think the instep pressure is huge (whether you drift forward or do not drift forward) because that allows for maximum torque with your feet.  

So I think with players like a Matsuyama, they rock the pressure towards their instep and then use the ground to rotate.  Whereas somebody like a Johnny Ruiz gets to p4 and just uses the ground from the get-go in transition.

As far as keeping the right hip higher than the left in the downswing, it's a problem I have as well.  What has been working for me lately is to focus on the belly button.  That has to rotate.  The belly button should face the ball at p5 and then should be facing the target at p6.  When I focus on the belly button, I can also start to become more aware of the oblique sling and I try to keep that rotated and keep the oblique sling slanted downward.





RH


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#2061 RichieHunt

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:24 PM

Here's a recent swing from me:



The setup is a little off, but I have found that I'm able to get the setup more where I want it to be if I let the arms hang vertically instead of reaching out for the ball.  I saw this from watching a top level junior golfer at my club who has a 'perfect' setup by GG standards.

I like the backswing quite a bit and the shaft is certainly shallowed out, but I am still struggling with rotation, particularly with the chest.  I just end up tilting and 'dropping' the chest downward and it causes low point and face control issues.

I started to see some progress tonight.  One of the concepts I have been batting around is the idea of weed wacker head where the circular head is my pelvis and the plastic string is my left arm.



As head (pelvis) rotates, the plastic string (left arm) goes outward and clips the grass blades.  

I think that where tilting and pulling down and not rotating messes with me (and others like me) is from a conceptual standpoint.   The concept of the left arm actually going outward towards the ball like the plastic string on a weed wacker is foreign to me.

But in order to get the left arm to go out towards the ball and the shaft to shallow, you really have to rotate the entire body and 'pull' the left side away (away from the ball).

Screenshot 2018-12-06 at 9.19.23 PM.png

Essentially, I want to get the left hip and left shoulder to move as far away (away from the ball) as they are in that position.

I have found that part of the equation is to move the right hip out towards the ball.  But, it's also important to get left knee flexion so I can rotate the left side and counter any upper body tilting that causes me to stall.






RH

Edited by RichieHunt, 06 December 2018 - 10:25 PM.


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#2062 Nard_S

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:14 AM

I came back to this thread because much of the year I've been grooving lower left side and getting lead shoulder away from chin and bringing right to it's level. A more down levered move. All very "AMG". Made good progress with it and my usual thin miss subsided a lot. However noticed a power leak, that was real prevalent in metals so I mined the GG method and connected that when I dropped and squatted, crunched body angles and in particular, "dropped the ball" by creating space between quads, power leak dissipated. Key thing is even though arms and hands maintain smooth transition pace, I needed to speed up body pace in transition quite a bit. The space created between upper thighs was critical to that happening. So find myself in both camps for the Rx of swing even if that is a bit of self delusion.

Hardest paradigm shift I've endured is getting body more crunched and flexed to facilitate a lay down of shaft and getting D plane lower. Been swinging steep and losing,straightening body angles to compensate when what's needed is the opposite. Better body geometry and rotations create the space but also inherently flatten plane and simplify arm action. Lower body & core proficiency is getting more attention this winter. The "squat & space between thighs " of GG, the "lower left side,swing downhill" of AMG seems to be the medicine needed.

Edited by Nard_S, 07 December 2018 - 10:16 AM.


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#2063 B_of_H

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:13 AM

i've been reading through this topic and have watched a bunch of GG videos recently.  I went to Golftec yesterday (after working on his pivot for a week at home without swinging at a ball) and was on a skytrack and gc2.  I hit some good shots but it wasn't until I really tried to be passive with the arms and almost 'leave them back at the top' while I pivoted did things change.  I could feel more of a stretch on my left rear delt/upper lat as I pivoted.  All of the sudden I went from 93 mph (6 iron) to 96 mph and my launch went down a bit.  I think as long as I maintain width both between my hands and upper body AND my knees as I pivot things work out pretty well.  Great thread, thanks.
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#2064 NikeGolferTX

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:23 PM

Biggest advice for Gankas model.

DO NOT BACK AWAY AT IMPACT. Don't pull that left shoulder backwards or upwards.

Keep it down through impact while rotating and you'll find yourself at perfect impact.

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