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Clubhouse Grille

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#18451 scomac2002

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:31 AM

FWIW I rarely if ever watch soccer during the regular club season.  Both of our boys played, but the nuances of the game are really lost on me.  Like the Olympics, the WC is different as it's country against country and only comes along once every 4 years, so that makes it special, to me at least.  That said, I have no horse in the race.

FWIW I rarely if ever watch soccer during the regular club season.  Both of our boys played, but the nuances of the game are really lost on me.  Like the Olympics, the WC is different as it's country against country and only comes along once every 4 years, so that makes it special, to me at least.  That said, I have no horse in the race.

Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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#18452 tolmij

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 05:14 PM

View Postscomac2002, on 11 July 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

FWIW I rarely if ever watch soccer during the regular club season.  Both of our boys played, but the nuances of the game are really lost on me.  Like the Olympics, the WC is different as it's country against country and only comes along once every 4 years, so that makes it special, to me at least.  That said, I have no horse in the race.

FWIW I rarely if ever watch soccer during the regular club season.  Both of our boys played, but the nuances of the game are really lost on me.  Like the Olympics, the WC is different as it's country against country and only comes along once every 4 years, so that makes it special, to me at least.  That said, I have no horse in the race.

The annoying fact is most children playing soccer do it for the correct reason, they enjoy playing, but the money involved soon turns their heads and becomes the primary objective. I know we have to earn as much as possible to give our families a good life but turning pro at a young age and having contracts and managers when still in the early teens soon  gives the wrong message. When you are filled with your own self importance at such a young age it can only cause trouble.

I used to be an avid Rugby League fan, then they worked a full time job, Rugby Union was an amateur sport even at an international level and the Olympics would disqualify anyone accepting payment for performance, OK so I am ancient and living in the past and the world moves on, not always for the better though.
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#18453 Spooky67

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU

Edited by Spooky67, 11 July 2018 - 05:32 PM.


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#18454 Reasonability

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    Mirror work is a good idea.

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:03 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU

Good deal.  If I may - would like to check with one or two guys known to do this one more than I personally have.  Stu may happen along, too.  I believe he's done this himself many times.  Will get back to you soon based on feedback I hope to gather for you.
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#18455 scomac2002

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:31 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU

Your video brought back memories of hitting off a lie board during iron fittings.  It makes a lot of sense for improving contact as I always remember enjoying the experience of hitting off of a board as I recall wanting to focus on bottoming out the swing in front of the ball.

I've got an old junker SW around here somewhere that I used to hit off of bare dirt or the driveway to work on the same thing.

Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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#18456 Qqq123xx

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:14 PM

Well no English France final. Croatia brought it. Comeback kids.
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#18457 Conrad1953

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:29 PM

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well no English France final. Croatia brought it. Comeback kids.

Lol, you're just biding your time until football season starts. So, who's going to play Bama in the National Championship
game this season? And who's gonna play the Pats in the Super Bowl?

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#18458 Qqq123xx

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:56 PM

View PostConrad1953, on 11 July 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well no English France final. Croatia brought it. Comeback kids.

Lol, you're just biding your time until football season starts. So, who's going to play Bama in the National Championship
game this season? And who's gonna play the Pats in the Super Bowl?
Lol. Actually I am a BIG WC fan. Been so for years. Watched just about every game except maybe a couple in first go around, those early 8am games. The tides gone out and won't return and the Pats will collect another trophy. D will be much better than lasts years no pass rush.
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#18459 Reasonability

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:02 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU
\

Need to play a little back/forth dialogue with you if that's OK.  

A)  Did you happen to also record a face-on?  At the risk of annoying you, would you be able to do so in the next few days before too much is said?

B)  Camera angles can play games with us.  Your target seems to the right of your alignment.  Was that purposeful or the angle?  Were you going for an open=faced sort of "cut/slice" type swing???

C) Do you know what loft of the club you were swinging?

D) If you had to guess, was the handle ahead (to the target side) of the ball at impact?  Even with it?  Back behind it?  (I'm guessing a little ahead of it.)

E) Depth perception in 2D is a little tricky.  How far was the target from you?  Looks like about 10-12 yards???

Here's some really positive feedback while waiting for your answers.  That board under your feet indicates you operate with nice balance.  There's no tipping out over your toes or rocking back on your heels.  Standing on that board, you have to maintain great control of balance.  Well done!
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#18460 Conrad1953

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:18 PM

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostConrad1953, on 11 July 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well no English France final. Croatia brought it. Comeback kids.

Lol, you're just biding your time until football season starts. So, who's going to play Bama in the National Championship
game this season? And who's gonna play the Pats in the Super Bowl?
Lol. Actually I am a BIG WC fan. Been so for years. Watched just about every game except maybe a couple in first go around, those early 8am games. The tides gone out and won't return and the Pats will collect another trophy. D will be much better than lasts years no pass rush.

I think Tua is gonna be at QB this season...………….. surprise MVP in last years NC game in case you don't remember.
It will be good to see the Tide have a passing game. Could be epic. My guess is Clemson will be back in the NC game
against them. Would be better if it was Auburn. Not only have an all SEC NC game but an all Bama NC game. That would
really piss off the rest of the country, LMAO. I wonder what the odds are?  :D

I have no clue who will play the Pats in the SB. Got a feeling it won't matter this time around.


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#18461 scomac2002

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:47 AM

View PostConrad1953, on 11 July 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostConrad1953, on 11 July 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

View PostQqq123xx, on 11 July 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well no English France final. Croatia brought it. Comeback kids.

Lol, you're just biding your time until football season starts. So, who's going to play Bama in the National Championship
game this season? And who's gonna play the Pats in the Super Bowl?
Lol. Actually I am a BIG WC fan. Been so for years. Watched just about every game except maybe a couple in first go around, those early 8am games. The tides gone out and won't return and the Pats will collect another trophy. D will be much better than lasts years no pass rush.

I think Tua is gonna be at QB this season...………….. surprise MVP in last years NC game in case you don't remember.
It will be good to see the Tide have a passing game. Could be epic. My guess is Clemson will be back in the NC game
against them. Would be better if it was Auburn. Not only have an all SEC NC game but an all Bama NC game. That would
really piss off the rest of the country, LMAO. I wonder what the odds are?  :D

I have no clue who will play the Pats in the SB. Got a feeling it won't matter this time around.

So why bother?  I don't follow football in the US, but one of the beauties of the Canadian version of the game is that you never know who is gonna be good in any given year.  The only certainty is that Calgary will be competitive, but there are no guarantees that they'll go to the Grey Cup game let alone win it.

It seems that the American League of baseball has the same issues that befall the NFL with the season barely half over and all the play-off positions pretty well decided baring a miracle.  The only thing left to discuss is who will be traded before the deadline and where do you think they'll end up?  Oh, I still watch the games because I enjoy the sport and it's nice to see the younger players develop and some of the second tier guys get their shot, but the results really don't matter one whit.  This likely explains why I have been following the WC and the T de F to fill in my sports viewing time.
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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#18462 billh17

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:55 PM

We must be slowing down,guys....the thread on urinating on the course is now listed ahead of us on opening page of the 19th hole !
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#18463 Conrad1953

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:00 PM

View Postbillh17, on 12 July 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

We must be slowing down,guys....the thread on urinating on the course is now listed ahead of us on opening page of the 19th hole !

Well, your post took care of that and now mine added a little insurance. Piss on them!

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#18464 Spooky67

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:22 PM

View PostReasonability, on 11 July 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU
\

Need to play a little back/forth dialogue with you if that's OK.  

A)  Did you happen to also record a face-on?  At the risk of annoying you, would you be able to do so in the next few days before too much is said?

B)  Camera angles can play games with us.  Your target seems to the right of your alignment.  Was that purposeful or the angle?  Were you going for an open=faced sort of "cut/slice" type swing???

C) Do you know what loft of the club you were swinging?

D) If you had to guess, was the handle ahead (to the target side) of the ball at impact?  Even with it?  Back behind it?  (I'm guessing a little ahead of it.)

E) Depth perception in 2D is a little tricky.  How far was the target from you?  Looks like about 10-12 yards???

Here's some really positive feedback while waiting for your answers.  That board under your feet indicates you operate with nice balance.  There's no tipping out over your toes or rocking back on your heels.  Standing on that board, you have to maintain great control of balance.  Well done!

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as I really had no idea if what I was doing is the drill you were describing. I have the dreaded two way miss with my green side wedges- thin or dig...lol. But like scomac2002 mentioned I was trying to focus on getting the lead edge right under the ball.

A. I did not record face on but I can. I figured seeing the ball flight would help.?

B. Yes. the target was right of where the boards were pointing. I was trying to stand just a bit open to the ball, I was trying to swing along my stance line with the face just a bit open. Yes I was swinging along the line that would slice with a full swing.

C. I was swinging a Mizuno MP-32 PW so somewhere around 47deg give or take.?

D. I'm not really sure on that one.? I set up pretty neutral I felt, leading edge just under the ball and went from there. At impact I was likely slightly ahead as I was trying to turn through the chip.?

E. I'd say the target was maybe 10yds max but probably a little closer.?

The set up wasn't something I really thought through, I saw a board in the garage and decided to chip a few off it. At first I just had the ball on the board and my feet on the concrete so the ball was just a bit above my feet. After a few of those I got another board to stand on and the ball was just a little below my feet. I was really much more focused on making clean contact and not thinning it. It seems that this drill is all about making clean contact? I appreciate the info and the help.

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#18465 PeanutsDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:35 PM

Not a big 'football/soccer' fan, but tune in at times during the WC, as I do with some sports during the olympic cycle.  I teach with a few international soccer junkies and my school (a student body with an international flavour) is filled with soccer fanatics.   The game is around me.   One of my close friends is Croatian, another is English, so this most recent match was a huge deal for each of them.   Me, I have no allegiance.    I'll tune in at times during the final, but won't watch the full game.   Too much stuff to do, not enough interest on my part.

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#18466 Reasonability

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    Mirror work is a good idea.

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:55 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 12 July 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 11 July 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU
\

Need to play a little back/forth dialogue with you if that's OK.  

A)  Did you happen to also record a face-on?  At the risk of annoying you, would you be able to do so in the next few days before too much is said?

B)  Camera angles can play games with us.  Your target seems to the right of your alignment.  Was that purposeful or the angle?  Were you going for an open=faced sort of "cut/slice" type swing???

C) Do you know what loft of the club you were swinging?

D) If you had to guess, was the handle ahead (to the target side) of the ball at impact?  Even with it?  Back behind it?  (I'm guessing a little ahead of it.)

E) Depth perception in 2D is a little tricky.  How far was the target from you?  Looks like about 10-12 yards???

Here's some really positive feedback while waiting for your answers.  That board under your feet indicates you operate with nice balance.  There's no tipping out over your toes or rocking back on your heels.  Standing on that board, you have to maintain great control of balance.  Well done!

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as I really had no idea if what I was doing is the drill you were describing. I have the dreaded two way miss with my green side wedges- thin or dig...lol. But like scomac2002 mentioned I was trying to focus on getting the lead edge right under the ball.

A. I did not record face on but I can. I figured seeing the ball flight would help.?

B. Yes. the target was right of where the boards were pointing. I was trying to stand just a bit open to the ball, I was trying to swing along my stance line with the face just a bit open. Yes I was swinging along the line that would slice with a full swing.

C. I was swinging a Mizuno MP-32 PW so somewhere around 47deg give or take.?

D. I'm not really sure on that one.? I set up pretty neutral I felt, leading edge just under the ball and went from there. At impact I was likely slightly ahead as I was trying to turn through the chip.?

E. I'd say the target was maybe 10yds max but probably a little closer.?

The set up wasn't something I really thought through, I saw a board in the garage and decided to chip a few off it. At first I just had the ball on the board and my feet on the concrete so the ball was just a bit above my feet. After a few of those I got another board to stand on and the ball was just a little below my feet. I was really much more focused on making clean contact and not thinning it. It seems that this drill is all about making clean contact? I appreciate the info and the help.

Thanks for your tolerance, Spooky.  Here's specifically why the face-on thing was mentioned. Face on reveals ball placement in the stance;: weight over one or both feet; amount (if any) of forward press at address/impact, any lateral sway, etc.  Those are all biggies.  But I might be able to spare you the extra effort through sharing.  Thanks to another golfer I've checked with (you know who you are my friend)...who actually made this drill more of a habit for longer periods than me personally.
.
While one size doesn't fit all - you'd probably hear others who practice wedges off of boards and decking say things along these lines:

1.  A more lofted wedge is typically used - maybe a 56* or even 60*.  The goal is to accelerate through the strike and still manage to get a higher flight.  Sounds like an impossibility given the bounce on the bottom of the club (we'll get to that in a minute).

2. Like you they often open up the face of the club in their initial grip, and also like you there's very much a goal of "picking it clean",

3.  The clubface remains pointing skyward in your vids - just after impact.   And with that, the handle moves around your left hip in the follow-through.  Some call this "handle dragging" - some refer to it as "rounding the corner".  I think you'd find that motion to be what others experience.


4.  I believe the target for this drill might tend to be a little farther out typically - probably in the 20-40 yard range which would mean a little fuller swing.  Not to get into the semantics of a chip shot versus pitch shot, but your trajectory with that club at that distance would be (IMO) perfectly fine.  Your trajectory is very consistent which is a good thing!

Getting back to the "bounce" thing and seeming impossibility of hitting a higher longer shot with more lofted club off of boards/decking.  IMHO it takes the following to pull it off.

There's a lot of different grinds on wedges out there with all levels of very little to lots of bounce.

Most wedges will let you open up the face in your grip (which you do).  Depending on the grind and bounce the leading edge of the clubface will start to automatically "lift" a little at address when you do.  But...that leading edge can make contact well below the equator of the ball.  That edge by itself may not fully slip "under" the ball but its far enough below the equator that plenty of upward lift in trajectory still happens.  The bounce is used to "skid" the clubhead through the strike which is why folks doing this drill often swing a longer targets... they're going for lots of acceleration.  

For me personally (This may not work for you personally)...I set up with a little less forward press of the handle than for the lower/shorter chip shot.  Like you I personally set the feet up to the left a bit and the clubface is a little right of the target.  For me, I allow the trail elbow to be very slightly bent at setup.  I swing the club back along the target line rather than swing it back up over my toe line. The toe of the club points to the sky going back through 9 o'clock and the face points to the sky just after impact -  just like you do.   At impact the handle and wrists are fully dumpling their angles and the butt end of the club is barely ahead of the ball or possibly even with it.  But still, like you I'm picking it clean if possible and letting that handle swing around my left hip.  So about the only difference in our two individual approaches is a little tweak to the trail (right) elbow,  It's possible you set up with a little more forward press of the hand than me for this drill.  You take it back over your toe line and for me it moves a little more back over the target line (more so than the toe line anyway).  We both end up finishing the same (basically).  It just so happens for me, I'd have a more lofted club and a little bigger swing but I "think" you  and I are in the same general ball park FWIW.

The real test will be hearing if your next golf outing or two yield some nice little shots around the green with a great sense of control.  It follows that anyone who can snag one off a wooden flat surface just might be comfortable hitting a routine golf shot out there since you've been tested by a drill that sounds simple but takes a little doing to get it right.  Well done.

Edited by Reasonability, 12 July 2018 - 10:05 PM.

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#18467 scotee

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:07 PM

View PostReasonability, on 12 July 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 12 July 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 11 July 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU
\

Need to play a little back/forth dialogue with you if that's OK.  

A)  Did you happen to also record a face-on?  At the risk of annoying you, would you be able to do so in the next few days before too much is said?

B)  Camera angles can play games with us.  Your target seems to the right of your alignment.  Was that purposeful or the angle?  Were you going for an open=faced sort of "cut/slice" type swing???

C) Do you know what loft of the club you were swinging?

D) If you had to guess, was the handle ahead (to the target side) of the ball at impact?  Even with it?  Back behind it?  (I'm guessing a little ahead of it.)

E) Depth perception in 2D is a little tricky.  How far was the target from you?  Looks like about 10-12 yards???

Here's some really positive feedback while waiting for your answers.  That board under your feet indicates you operate with nice balance.  There's no tipping out over your toes or rocking back on your heels.  Standing on that board, you have to maintain great control of balance.  Well done!

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as I really had no idea if what I was doing is the drill you were describing. I have the dreaded two way miss with my green side wedges- thin or dig...lol. But like scomac2002 mentioned I was trying to focus on getting the lead edge right under the ball.

A. I did not record face on but I can. I figured seeing the ball flight would help.?

B. Yes. the target was right of where the boards were pointing. I was trying to stand just a bit open to the ball, I was trying to swing along my stance line with the face just a bit open. Yes I was swinging along the line that would slice with a full swing.

C. I was swinging a Mizuno MP-32 PW so somewhere around 47deg give or take.?

D. I'm not really sure on that one.? I set up pretty neutral I felt, leading edge just under the ball and went from there. At impact I was likely slightly ahead as I was trying to turn through the chip.?

E. I'd say the target was maybe 10yds max but probably a little closer.?

The set up wasn't something I really thought through, I saw a board in the garage and decided to chip a few off it. At first I just had the ball on the board and my feet on the concrete so the ball was just a bit above my feet. After a few of those I got another board to stand on and the ball was just a little below my feet. I was really much more focused on making clean contact and not thinning it. It seems that this drill is all about making clean contact? I appreciate the info and the help.

Thanks for your tolerance, Spooky.  Here's specifically why the face-on thing was mentioned. Face on reveals ball placement in the stance;: weight over one or both feet; amount (if any) of forward press at address/impact, any lateral sway, etc.  Those are all biggies.  But I might be able to spare you the extra effort through sharing.  Thanks to another golfer I've checked with (you know who you are my friend)...who actually made this drill more of a habit for longer periods than me personally.
.
While one size doesn't fit all - you'd probably hear others who practice wedges off of boards and decking say things along these lines:

1.  A more lofted wedge is typically used - maybe a 56* or even 60*.  The goal is to accelerate through the strike and still manage to get a higher flight.  Sounds like an impossibility given the bounce on the bottom of the club (we'll get to that in a minute).

2. Like you they often open up the face of the club in their initial grip, and also like you there's very much a goal of "picking it clean",

3.  The clubface remains pointing skyward in your vids - just after impact.   And with that, the handle moves around your left hip in the follow-through.  Some call this "handle dragging" - some refer to it as "rounding the corner".  I think you'd find that motion to be what others experience.


4.  I believe the target for this drill might tend to be a little farther out typically - probably in the 20-40 yard range which would mean a little fuller swing.  Not to get into the semantics of a chip shot versus pitch shot, but your trajectory with that club at that distance would be (IMO) perfectly fine.  Your trajectory is very consistent which is a good thing!

Getting back to the "bounce" thing and seeming impossibility of hitting a higher longer shot with more lofted club off of boards/decking.  IMHO it takes the following to pull it off.

There's a lot of different grinds on wedges out there with all levels of very little to lots of bounce.

Most wedges will let you open up the face in your grip (which you do).  Depending on the grind and bounce the leading edge of the clubface will start to automatically "lift" a little at address when you do.  But...that leading edge can make contact well below the equator of the ball.  That edge by itself may not fully slip "under" the ball but its far enough below the equator that plenty of upward lift in trajectory still happens.  The bounce is used to "skid" the clubhead through the strike which is why folks doing this drill often swing a longer targets... they're going for lots of acceleration.  

For me personally (This may not work for you personally)...I set up with a little less forward press of the handle than for the lower/shorter chip shot.  Like you I personally set the feet up to the left a bit and the clubface is a little right of the target.  For me, I allow the trail elbow to be very slightly bent at setup.  I swing the club back along the target line rather than swing it back up over my toe line. The toe of the club points to the sky going back through 9 o'clock and the face points to the sky just after impact -  just like you do.   At impact the handle and wrists are fully dumpling their angles and the butt end of the club is barely ahead of the ball or possibly even with it.  But still, like you I'm picking it clean if possible and letting that handle swing around my left hip.  So about the only difference in our two individual approaches is a little tweak to the trail (right) elbow,  It's possible you set up with a little more forward press of the hand than me for this drill.  You take it back over your toe line and for me it moves a little more back over the target line (more so than the toe line anyway).  We both end up finishing the same (basically).  It just so happens for me, I'd have a more lofted club and a little bigger swing but I "think" you  and I are in the same general ball park FWIW.

The real test will be hearing if your next golf outing or two yield some nice little shots around the green with a great sense of control.  It follows that anyone who can snag one off a wooden flat surface just might be comfortable hitting a routine golf shot out there since you've been tested by a drill that sounds simple but takes a little doing to get it right.  Well done.

Good stuff Judge. Well reasoned :)  Questions:  How far out do you use that bounce pitch shot? At what yardage do you use the leading edge and take a divot?  Do you use the same shot with less lofted clubs for any reason like say a PW or 9 iron? I can do that shot from on the green for little ones. I struggle with tight wet lies or from bare dirt. Cushy fairway, no problem. Light rough even better. If I get one of the tough lies I tense up and have no confidence. Tense and scared and I don't have a chance. I also have to constantly monitor my set up. My hands ahead forward press habit is hard to break.
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#18468 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:34 AM

View Postscotee, on 12 July 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 12 July 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 12 July 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 11 July 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 11 July 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

I tried chipping off of a board today-thanks Reasonability for the suggestion. I didn't have a sheet of plywood so to start the ball was above my feet, but I decided to add a board for me to stand on so the ball was slightly below my feet- my weakness. Chipped some and then decided to get a quick vid as I wasn't sure if I was doing it right.? Of course the ball went in the air towards the target but I was wondering if I should be picking it totally clean? I felt like I got ball first-ish, but there was definite contact with the board. How should I be working this drill? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/s7v7j6mG0kU
\

Need to play a little back/forth dialogue with you if that's OK.  

A)  Did you happen to also record a face-on?  At the risk of annoying you, would you be able to do so in the next few days before too much is said?

B)  Camera angles can play games with us.  Your target seems to the right of your alignment.  Was that purposeful or the angle?  Were you going for an open=faced sort of "cut/slice" type swing???

C) Do you know what loft of the club you were swinging?

D) If you had to guess, was the handle ahead (to the target side) of the ball at impact?  Even with it?  Back behind it?  (I'm guessing a little ahead of it.)

E) Depth perception in 2D is a little tricky.  How far was the target from you?  Looks like about 10-12 yards???

Here's some really positive feedback while waiting for your answers.  That board under your feet indicates you operate with nice balance.  There's no tipping out over your toes or rocking back on your heels.  Standing on that board, you have to maintain great control of balance.  Well done!

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as I really had no idea if what I was doing is the drill you were describing. I have the dreaded two way miss with my green side wedges- thin or dig...lol. But like scomac2002 mentioned I was trying to focus on getting the lead edge right under the ball.

A. I did not record face on but I can. I figured seeing the ball flight would help.?

B. Yes. the target was right of where the boards were pointing. I was trying to stand just a bit open to the ball, I was trying to swing along my stance line with the face just a bit open. Yes I was swinging along the line that would slice with a full swing.

C. I was swinging a Mizuno MP-32 PW so somewhere around 47deg give or take.?

D. I'm not really sure on that one.? I set up pretty neutral I felt, leading edge just under the ball and went from there. At impact I was likely slightly ahead as I was trying to turn through the chip.?

E. I'd say the target was maybe 10yds max but probably a little closer.?

The set up wasn't something I really thought through, I saw a board in the garage and decided to chip a few off it. At first I just had the ball on the board and my feet on the concrete so the ball was just a bit above my feet. After a few of those I got another board to stand on and the ball was just a little below my feet. I was really much more focused on making clean contact and not thinning it. It seems that this drill is all about making clean contact? I appreciate the info and the help.

Thanks for your tolerance, Spooky.  Here's specifically why the face-on thing was mentioned. Face on reveals ball placement in the stance;: weight over one or both feet; amount (if any) of forward press at address/impact, any lateral sway, etc.  Those are all biggies.  But I might be able to spare you the extra effort through sharing.  Thanks to another golfer I've checked with (you know who you are my friend)...who actually made this drill more of a habit for longer periods than me personally.
.
While one size doesn't fit all - you'd probably hear others who practice wedges off of boards and decking say things along these lines:

1.  A more lofted wedge is typically used - maybe a 56* or even 60*.  The goal is to accelerate through the strike and still manage to get a higher flight.  Sounds like an impossibility given the bounce on the bottom of the club (we'll get to that in a minute).

2. Like you they often open up the face of the club in their initial grip, and also like you there's very much a goal of "picking it clean",

3.  The clubface remains pointing skyward in your vids - just after impact.   And with that, the handle moves around your left hip in the follow-through.  Some call this "handle dragging" - some refer to it as "rounding the corner".  I think you'd find that motion to be what others experience.


4.  I believe the target for this drill might tend to be a little farther out typically - probably in the 20-40 yard range which would mean a little fuller swing.  Not to get into the semantics of a chip shot versus pitch shot, but your trajectory with that club at that distance would be (IMO) perfectly fine.  Your trajectory is very consistent which is a good thing!

Getting back to the "bounce" thing and seeming impossibility of hitting a higher longer shot with more lofted club off of boards/decking.  IMHO it takes the following to pull it off.

There's a lot of different grinds on wedges out there with all levels of very little to lots of bounce.

Most wedges will let you open up the face in your grip (which you do).  Depending on the grind and bounce the leading edge of the clubface will start to automatically "lift" a little at address when you do.  But...that leading edge can make contact well below the equator of the ball.  That edge by itself may not fully slip "under" the ball but its far enough below the equator that plenty of upward lift in trajectory still happens.  The bounce is used to "skid" the clubhead through the strike which is why folks doing this drill often swing a longer targets... they're going for lots of acceleration.  

For me personally (This may not work for you personally)...I set up with a little less forward press of the handle than for the lower/shorter chip shot.  Like you I personally set the feet up to the left a bit and the clubface is a little right of the target.  For me, I allow the trail elbow to be very slightly bent at setup.  I swing the club back along the target line rather than swing it back up over my toe line. The toe of the club points to the sky going back through 9 o'clock and the face points to the sky just after impact -  just like you do.   At impact the handle and wrists are fully dumpling their angles and the butt end of the club is barely ahead of the ball or possibly even with it.  But still, like you I'm picking it clean if possible and letting that handle swing around my left hip.  So about the only difference in our two individual approaches is a little tweak to the trail (right) elbow,  It's possible you set up with a little more forward press of the hand than me for this drill.  You take it back over your toe line and for me it moves a little more back over the target line (more so than the toe line anyway).  We both end up finishing the same (basically).  It just so happens for me, I'd have a more lofted club and a little bigger swing but I "think" you  and I are in the same general ball park FWIW.

The real test will be hearing if your next golf outing or two yield some nice little shots around the green with a great sense of control.  It follows that anyone who can snag one off a wooden flat surface just might be comfortable hitting a routine golf shot out there since you've been tested by a drill that sounds simple but takes a little doing to get it right.  Well done.

Good stuff Judge. Well reasoned :)  Questions:  How far out do you use that bounce pitch shot? At what yardage do you use the leading edge and take a divot?  Do you use the same shot with less lofted clubs for any reason like say a PW or 9 iron? I can do that shot from on the green for little ones. I struggle with tight wet lies or from bare dirt. Cushy fairway, no problem. Light rough even better. If I get one of the tough lies I tense up and have no confidence. Tense and scared and I don't have a chance. I also have to constantly monitor my set up. My hands ahead forward press habit is hard to break.

Those are some FANTASTIC questions, Scotee.  You and I were asking each other similar questions a couple of weeks ago.  I'll gladly trade answer with you - the best I can anyway.  Maybe others have their thoughts on it as well - hopefully so.  


Tight lies for whatever reason don't bug me.  At the risk of annoying anyone who hates a good quality mat... using them has made me a little less fearful about tight lies.  As long as that leading edge swiftly accelerates and makes contact well below the equator she's going to fly upward.  It's only when I bottom out the swing behind the ball and the clubhead is actually rising at impact,  I serve up the dreaded skulled/bladed missile goes flying over the back of the green.  It's a "fat-thin" shot if that makes any sense.  

I personally can only send the ball with my 60* about 45-50 yards max with this shot comfortably.  The reason being the fuller and harder I swing that particular shot, all I'm getting in return is a higher shot versus one that goes farther.  The energy is sending it "up" not "downrange" if that makes sense.  For me the lie can't be too fluffy or the club mows the grass right under the ball sending it nowhere - and the max distance in a normal to tight lie is about 40-50 yards tops with a 60*.  

I might on occasion use the 56 and feel sure I've done this with the 52.  They can be opened up, too, and everything still applies I suppose.  A little test swing through the grass nearby the ball would tell me if the bounce on those clubs might be a little better for a particular lie (or not).  How much farther or lower is the trajectory for those club options?  Here's a dirty little truth.. I'm not really sure.  They're somewhat lower and longer and roll-out a little more but I can't usually predict by how much to be honest.

So the 56 or 60 would normally be what I'd reach for and it would be for less than 50 yards - and only when I'm in a spot where it's got to fly close to the hole and send it high.

BUT... these are not shots in all honesty I'm in love with.  I never know how much of that energy flying it "up" is going to translate into a desired landing spot downrange.  It's (for me) a little too unpredictable.  Anytime around the the green I try it and the lie is uphill, I always take one to two less lofted clubs just to get there and not come up a mile short.

And lack of "loving" this higher flying bounce-based shot introduces what I'd far prefer executing, which goes to the other part of your question... which is to basically NOT do anything remotely approaching a flop shot, but rather to lean that handle and get it jumping off the sweet-spot and driving it more forward and lower.  THAT one is far more in my comfort zone.  For every once I've personally practiced that shot off of lumber with the bounce activated, I've got ten thousand shots practiced and played that were the opposite.

More to come later.  Sorry about needing to right now - but I need to step away for a bit.

Edited by Reasonability, 13 July 2018 - 01:15 AM.

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#18469 billh17

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:49 AM

All I can say is that my attempts at hitting flop shots were successful ....the shot flopped....i took the 60 out of the bag
and used it to adorn the " No CARTS BEYOND" sign in the grass off the patio.. I use the 52/56...they suit me better.
I have found that i play more bump and run around the green. I just feel I can control the distance better..Normally use an
8i for that. The 56 is normally the club for pitches inside 80 yrds.....I use The Peltz clock method and have three lengths
that I can be reasonably close to achieving...
I find it very telling that there is a "bounce " discussion taking place without it bouncing into unplayable territory ! Great work
grillers !
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#18470 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:10 PM

View Postbillh17, on 13 July 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

All I can say is that my attempts at hitting flop shots were successful ....the shot flopped....i took the 60 out of the bag
and used it to adorn the " No CARTS BEYOND" sign in the grass off the patio.. I use the 52/56...they suit me better.
I have found that i play more bump and run around the green. I just feel I can control the distance better..Normally use an
8i for that. The 56 is normally the club for pitches inside 80 yrds.....I use The Peltz clock method and have three lengths
that I can be reasonably close to achieving...
I find it very telling that there is a "bounce " discussion taking place without it bouncing into unplayable territory ! Great work
grillers !

Preach it Reverend Bill - That's very much the way I see it personally as well.  I believe it was Jon Daly who said his go-to stick around the greens is his lob wedge.  He's learned when to put it back in his stance and chip with it - and when to fly it high and land it soft.  Guess he invested in the feel and techniques to stick more to one more lofted club and for him - that's clearly a great decision.

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#18471 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

Scotee I might be in the minority but to finish trying to answer your question about divots....

Keep in mind I'm just finding my way through darkness just like the next guy - so I can be as wrong as the day is long.  But I rarely think "divot" per se around the greens.  I tend to want to brush the grass so to speak even when the handle is leaning.  The "might" as a result of moving the ball back int he stance be some divot taken - but for me it's rarely much of one.  I suppose the exception might be with the lie is that think wiry stuff, or the grain is a big deal and it's growing right into the path of the clubface. Might in such circumstances just go ahead and pick that club up sharply in the takeaway and just plop the clubhead downward "at" the ball - diving that leading edge downward into the back of the ball.  Leading edge might well end up "planting" into the turf with little or no follow-through.  Sort of a chop or chunk type thing.  No doubt we've all gone for that one from time to time.  To be honest, I've got to really be "seeing" and "feeling" that one to do it with confidence.  Old Reason has been known to "think" that's the ideal shot and end up chunking it about a foot rather than over the collar.  

So what do you think in terms of divots and club selection?  You have a favorite club or go-to shot your eye normally sees first?
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#18472 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:55 PM

Last one from here and we can (if you all want or care to) move to whatever else floats your own boat.  Just kicking tires guys.  This one will be it from moi about this goofy stuff for a while.

We've been talking about rounding the corner, and handle dragging and such things. As we all know all that goofiness is essentially about finding a smooth, natural way to compress that ball - ball-first type stuff.  We could pick minutiae inside of it to death if we wanted in terms of how this "rounding the corner" thing allow the wrist to unhinge and swing the club around the body without one of those two goals ruining the other.

Fine.  A million videos and words on the page could be batted around for decades but at the end of the day that's what such stuff is getting at.

Just showing a vid that I found which sums up something my instructor shared with me recently.  He didn't show me the vid - but the lesson was pretty much what follows down to the last word.  Old Reason had fallen a little too much in love with shaft-lean and late hit and all sorts of notions that are all well intended - but can slip into being too much of a good thing.

This is what he has me working on.  LMAO - it's almost backwards to what I've spent a lot of time and energy avoiding.  Notice it's basically about letting it release fully - little nuance about "posting up" to go with what the hands and arms are doing... but it's essentially about letting her fly versus any form of holding off.

Goofy game, isn't it?  We work on ways to not release it too early and fall in love with the notion.  Then it's about going ahead and letting go through the strike.  Anywho - this is what the instructor wants me going for now.  I was suddenly, and for the the first time in years hitting pushes with irons and push-slices with driver.  Not typical ball flights for moi.  Normally fight the opposite problem if anything.  Goofy thing is, I'll fall in love with this one and he'll be dialing me back into the world I just abandoned.  

Golf is HARD!  lol

https://www.youtube....h?v=vuBfHhCLEvU

Edited by Reasonability, 13 July 2018 - 12:56 PM.

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#18473 thug the bunny

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:12 PM

View Postscomac2002, on 11 July 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

I've been watching the WC periodically.  It was quite handy to watch the feature match at 7:00 am when we were out west.  a good way to start the day while having a leisurely breakfast and an extra cup of coffee.  Agree that France vs. England would be a ding donger!

For anyone else interested the Tour de France started last Saturday.  The first week is laways exciting as they typically make their way across northern France where cobbles are prevalent, winds blow strong and finishes are often on leg searing pitches like the Mur de Bretagne tomorrow.  Everyone still has a shot and the potential for crashes is large as everyone is fighting for position.

TDF is probably my 3rd fav sporting event, behind march madness and the world series. This year is developing with a lot of the big names not getting in the yellow except Sagan. That guy is a beast. He could power an entire town if they hooked him up to a generator. Other bigs are not popping - Richie Porter, Nabili, Froome, Cavendish.  However, the big name teams are still hanging with the field - Sky, Movistar, BMC. As always, will come down to the mountains. Gonna be a good one.

I gotta get back on my machine and do more riding...
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#18474 scomac2002

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:52 PM

I'm not too sure what to think about the chop shot.  it has never really worked for me that I can recall and was almost always the result of an error in technique rushing the swing and then decelerating to impact.  It would seem that I invariably would end up with a low and hot shot or a complete misfire that went no where.

I can recall working on chips and pitches where I could take a fairly long swing with good acceleration through the ball that would land fairly softly as long as I followed through and released the club.  That's a stark contrast to the results I would see with a chopping action and i would generally observe similar results from other players using that method.

As for favourite clubs, I've played a variety of lofts in my wedges over the years.  Initially it was a 56° alone after a 46° PW.  The I went with a 54/60 combo.  Then  came the 52/58 combo.  The higher loft wedges could be problematic.  Lots of potential for errors as I recall especially in low bounce versions.  Something in the 52°-54° range seemed to offer me the best combination of versatility and results, but you weren't flopping up over a 20' pine tree and getting it to stop on the front of the green.  Having said that, I do recall a year or so ago being stymied by a tree with only a 53° Tom Watson SS in the bag and managed to lay it wide open and get it up and over a maple and still hold the far side of the green.

In terms of shots, simplest is best I find so I opt for a couple of methods of wristless chips; one using a putting stroke with the toe down and a slightly closed face that yields a running shot.  The other is what I call a Stricker-type pitch where I use a bit of turn and bring the club back and through with little in the way of wrist action.  Those will land fairly soft.  The running shot can be done with a variety of clubs depending upon the amount of run-out you want.  The soft landing pitches are more typically done with a lofted wedge.
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#18475 Spooky67

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:26 PM

View PostReasonability, on 12 July 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

Thanks for your tolerance, Spooky.  Here's specifically why the face-on thing was mentioned. Face on reveals ball placement in the stance;: weight over one or both feet; amount (if any) of forward press at address/impact, any lateral sway, etc.  Those are all biggies.  But I might be able to spare you the extra effort through sharing.  Thanks to another golfer I've checked with (you know who you are my friend)...who actually made this drill more of a habit for longer periods than me personally.
.
While one size doesn't fit all - you'd probably hear others who practice wedges off of boards and decking say things along these lines:

1.  A more lofted wedge is typically used - maybe a 56* or even 60*.  The goal is to accelerate through the strike and still manage to get a higher flight.  Sounds like an impossibility given the bounce on the bottom of the club (we'll get to that in a minute).

2. Like you they often open up the face of the club in their initial grip, and also like you there's very much a goal of "picking it clean",

3.  The clubface remains pointing skyward in your vids - just after impact.   And with that, the handle moves around your left hip in the follow-through.  Some call this "handle dragging" - some refer to it as "rounding the corner".  I think you'd find that motion to be what others experience.


4.  I believe the target for this drill might tend to be a little farther out typically - probably in the 20-40 yard range which would mean a little fuller swing.  Not to get into the semantics of a chip shot versus pitch shot, but your trajectory with that club at that distance would be (IMO) perfectly fine.  Your trajectory is very consistent which is a good thing!

Getting back to the "bounce" thing and seeming impossibility of hitting a higher longer shot with more lofted club off of boards/decking.  IMHO it takes the following to pull it off.

There's a lot of different grinds on wedges out there with all levels of very little to lots of bounce.

Most wedges will let you open up the face in your grip (which you do).  Depending on the grind and bounce the leading edge of the clubface will start to automatically "lift" a little at address when you do.  But...that leading edge can make contact well below the equator of the ball.  That edge by itself may not fully slip "under" the ball but its far enough below the equator that plenty of upward lift in trajectory still happens.  The bounce is used to "skid" the clubhead through the strike which is why folks doing this drill often swing a longer targets... they're going for lots of acceleration.  

For me personally (This may not work for you personally)...I set up with a little less forward press of the handle than for the lower/shorter chip shot.  Like you I personally set the feet up to the left a bit and the clubface is a little right of the target.  For me, I allow the trail elbow to be very slightly bent at setup.  I swing the club back along the target line rather than swing it back up over my toe line. The toe of the club points to the sky going back through 9 o'clock and the face points to the sky just after impact -  just like you do.   At impact the handle and wrists are fully dumpling their angles and the butt end of the club is barely ahead of the ball or possibly even with it.  But still, like you I'm picking it clean if possible and letting that handle swing around my left hip.  So about the only difference in our two individual approaches is a little tweak to the trail (right) elbow,  It's possible you set up with a little more forward press of the hand than me for this drill.  You take it back over your toe line and for me it moves a little more back over the target line (more so than the toe line anyway).  We both end up finishing the same (basically).  It just so happens for me, I'd have a more lofted club and a little bigger swing but I "think" you  and I are in the same general ball park FWIW.

The real test will be hearing if your next golf outing or two yield some nice little shots around the green with a great sense of control.  It follows that anyone who can snag one off a wooden flat surface just might be comfortable hitting a routine golf shot out there since you've been tested by a drill that sounds simple but takes a little doing to get it right.  Well done.

Thanks agin for the help and for taking the time that detailed response required. Depending on the shot I want to play I my play the ball a bit forward or back in the stance. I may keep more weight on the front foot or rear foot again depending on the shot I am trying to execute. But off the board I was more weight front foot and ball in the middle or just a tad forward. Here is a little more info/responses to your responses

1. My typical home course wedge set up is: 50/10, 54/14 and 58/9. The only "beater" wedge I had was the MP-32 PW so that's what I used on the board...lol. I love my gamers and was not going to subject one of them to this drill,,lol!

2. I wasn't too opened, just had the face opened just a bit sine the loft was lower than what I'd normally be using around the green.

3. I saw a vid recommending using more body and less arm/hand to increase chipping consistency, so I have been playing around with that motion.

4. I tend to have a totally different move if I am out further than green side. I go to more of a hinge and hold for 20-50yd stuff. Green side/fringe chipping is probably my biggest weakness in the game. So much so that if I can putt it I will. I'm MUCH more comfortable with a wedge if I am a little further away from the green.

I hope my next outing-tomorrow-has a few nice chips in the round! Thanks again.

View Postbillh17, on 13 July 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

All I can say is that my attempts at hitting flop shots were successful ....the shot flopped....i took the 60 out of the bag
and used it to adorn the " No CARTS BEYOND" sign in the grass off the patio.. I use the 52/56...they suit me better.
I have found that i play more bump and run around the green. I just feel I can control the distance better..Normally use an
8i for that. The 56 is normally the club for pitches inside 80 yrds.....I use The Peltz clock method and have three lengths
that I can be reasonably close to achieving...
I find it very telling that there is a "bounce " discussion taking place without it bouncing into unplayable territory ! Great work
grillers !

I carried a 60deg for a bit as well, and like you I too removed mine from regular rotation. Every now and then I play a course where I know it will be nice to have....I actually have a 64deg that playes the same role. The most lofted wedge I normally carry is a 58deg.

Actually the flop is one of my go-to shots around the green when the lie is bad. Deep rough, leaves, pine straw, sand, etc and it's one of the few shots I can consistently hit pretty well. For me it takes a lot of the guesswork out of a trouble shot 54deg or 58deg- depending on the bounce needed, have the face wide open, weight on the front foot and really take a good swipe at it. Once you get over the fear of the force of the swing not matching the distance the ball needs to travel it gets easier to pull off IMO.

Edited by Spooky67, 13 July 2018 - 04:27 PM.


25

#18476 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:30 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 13 July 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 12 July 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

Thanks for your tolerance, Spooky.  Here's specifically why the face-on thing was mentioned. Face on reveals ball placement in the stance;: weight over one or both feet; amount (if any) of forward press at address/impact, any lateral sway, etc.  Those are all biggies.  But I might be able to spare you the extra effort through sharing.  Thanks to another golfer I've checked with (you know who you are my friend)...who actually made this drill more of a habit for longer periods than me personally.
.
While one size doesn't fit all - you'd probably hear others who practice wedges off of boards and decking say things along these lines:

1.  A more lofted wedge is typically used - maybe a 56* or even 60*.  The goal is to accelerate through the strike and still manage to get a higher flight.  Sounds like an impossibility given the bounce on the bottom of the club (we'll get to that in a minute).

2. Like you they often open up the face of the club in their initial grip, and also like you there's very much a goal of "picking it clean",

3.  The clubface remains pointing skyward in your vids - just after impact.   And with that, the handle moves around your left hip in the follow-through.  Some call this "handle dragging" - some refer to it as "rounding the corner".  I think you'd find that motion to be what others experience.


4.  I believe the target for this drill might tend to be a little farther out typically - probably in the 20-40 yard range which would mean a little fuller swing.  Not to get into the semantics of a chip shot versus pitch shot, but your trajectory with that club at that distance would be (IMO) perfectly fine.  Your trajectory is very consistent which is a good thing!

Getting back to the "bounce" thing and seeming impossibility of hitting a higher longer shot with more lofted club off of boards/decking.  IMHO it takes the following to pull it off.

There's a lot of different grinds on wedges out there with all levels of very little to lots of bounce.

Most wedges will let you open up the face in your grip (which you do).  Depending on the grind and bounce the leading edge of the clubface will start to automatically "lift" a little at address when you do.  But...that leading edge can make contact well below the equator of the ball.  That edge by itself may not fully slip "under" the ball but its far enough below the equator that plenty of upward lift in trajectory still happens.  The bounce is used to "skid" the clubhead through the strike which is why folks doing this drill often swing a longer targets... they're going for lots of acceleration.  

For me personally (This may not work for you personally)...I set up with a little less forward press of the handle than for the lower/shorter chip shot.  Like you I personally set the feet up to the left a bit and the clubface is a little right of the target.  For me, I allow the trail elbow to be very slightly bent at setup.  I swing the club back along the target line rather than swing it back up over my toe line. The toe of the club points to the sky going back through 9 o'clock and the face points to the sky just after impact -  just like you do.   At impact the handle and wrists are fully dumpling their angles and the butt end of the club is barely ahead of the ball or possibly even with it.  But still, like you I'm picking it clean if possible and letting that handle swing around my left hip.  So about the only difference in our two individual approaches is a little tweak to the trail (right) elbow,  It's possible you set up with a little more forward press of the hand than me for this drill.  You take it back over your toe line and for me it moves a little more back over the target line (more so than the toe line anyway).  We both end up finishing the same (basically).  It just so happens for me, I'd have a more lofted club and a little bigger swing but I "think" you  and I are in the same general ball park FWIW.

The real test will be hearing if your next golf outing or two yield some nice little shots around the green with a great sense of control.  It follows that anyone who can snag one off a wooden flat surface just might be comfortable hitting a routine golf shot out there since you've been tested by a drill that sounds simple but takes a little doing to get it right.  Well done.

Thanks agin for the help and for taking the time that detailed response required. Depending on the shot I want to play I my play the ball a bit forward or back in the stance. I may keep more weight on the front foot or rear foot again depending on the shot I am trying to execute. But off the board I was more weight front foot and ball in the middle or just a tad forward. Here is a little more info/responses to your responses

1. My typical home course wedge set up is: 50/10, 54/14 and 58/9. The only "beater" wedge I had was the MP-32 PW so that's what I used on the board...lol. I love my gamers and was not going to subject one of them to this drill,,lol!

2. I wasn't too opened, just had the face opened just a bit sine the loft was lower than what I'd normally be using around the green.

3. I saw a vid recommending using more body and less arm/hand to increase chipping consistency, so I have been playing around with that motion.

4. I tend to have a totally different move if I am out further than green side. I go to more of a hinge and hold for 20-50yd stuff. Green side/fringe chipping is probably my biggest weakness in the game. So much so that if I can putt it I will. I'm MUCH more comfortable with a wedge if I am a little further away from the green.

I hope my next outing-tomorrow-has a few nice chips in the round! Thanks again.

View Postbillh17, on 13 July 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

All I can say is that my attempts at hitting flop shots were successful ....the shot flopped....i took the 60 out of the bag
and used it to adorn the " No CARTS BEYOND" sign in the grass off the patio.. I use the 52/56...they suit me better.
I have found that i play more bump and run around the green. I just feel I can control the distance better..Normally use an
8i for that. The 56 is normally the club for pitches inside 80 yrds.....I use The Peltz clock method and have three lengths
that I can be reasonably close to achieving...
I find it very telling that there is a "bounce " discussion taking place without it bouncing into unplayable territory ! Great work
grillers !

I carried a 60deg for a bit as well, and like you I too removed mine from regular rotation. Every now and then I play a course where I know it will be nice to have....I actually have a 64deg that playes the same role. The most lofted wedge I normally carry is a 58deg.

Actually the flop is one of my go-to shots around the green when the lie is bad. Deep rough, leaves, pine straw, sand, etc and it's one of the few shots I can consistently hit pretty well. For me it takes a lot of the guesswork out of a trouble shot 54deg or 58deg- depending on the bounce needed, have the face wide open, weight on the front foot and really take a good swipe at it. Once you get over the fear of the force of the swing not matching the distance the ball needs to travel it gets easier to pull off IMO.

Sure sounds like you've got a grasp on what you're doing with this stuff Spooky.  Best to you on your upcoming round.  Sonny Boy and I playing tomorrow.  Would normally be happy to just play - accepting whatever good or bad comes from it.  Then, work on things later.  

Might allow myself some more time during this outing to incorporate what I'm being taught via little practice swings and such so as to avoid slipping into old habits.  LMAO - and we all know how that works.  Sometimes yes - sometimes not so much.  Old habits die hard as they say but it will be fun to be aware of it and see how it goes.
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26

#18477 Spooky67

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:43 PM

View PostReasonability, on 13 July 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Sure sounds like you've got a grasp on what you're doing with this stuff Spooky.  

Truth be told I have no clue, green side chips are my kryptonite

Edited by Spooky67, 13 July 2018 - 09:48 PM.


27

#18478 Reasonability

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    Mirror work is a good idea.

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:07 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=S7mQWy1CoYY


A cynic sees the cost of everything
and the value of nothing.

28

#18479 Reasonability

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:39 PM


A cynic sees the cost of everything
and the value of nothing.

29

#18480 scomac2002

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:55 AM

I don't know why, but this is the first song that popped into my head while watching the pickin' and a grinnin'...


Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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