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Clubhouse Grille

fellowship good spirit

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#17761 SixtySomePing

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:10 AM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 June 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 13 June 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

Perhaps it could be pointed out that men may be highly allergic to these unless DW is not around, but then I wouldn't know, right? ha

View PostSixtySomePing, on 13 June 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

Funny story, when our second baby was in need of changing one day, my wife asked if I would change his diaper in his room, which was on the second story. Of course I set a fan in the window against the screen blowing on me to keep the odors at bay while I did the quick lane change routine. Meanwhile she was in the kitchen below cooking something for supper. Well the screen popped out at the bottom from the vibration, and gravity took over and the fan fell out and down to the ground and broke into many pieces. I finished changing him, and took him downstairs, and she calmly said 'this time get one of those that sits on the pole so it stays put'... she hadn't even looked, she just knew what happened...maybe she heard the crash :dntknw:

Not Fella.  The "quick lane change" is part of the morning ritual.  Seven days a week, when the lad wakes up about 7:30 a.m.  As I've mentioned before in these chronicles, our granddaughter and great-grandson live with us.  It's a joy and wouldn't have it any other way.  I've become so accustomed to the change, don't even think about.  Just tell the lad, "No fooling around.  Let's get fresh and be done with it."  He listens to his 'Da'.  We then share the early morning time together, him sitting in my lap, sometimes viewing WRX on the screen as I try and keep his paws off the keyboard.  Life has a way of of taking unanticipated directions.  

Related.  So I figured that it was time for the lad to have his own plastic golf club set.  So bought him his first set.  Three plastic "clubs" some balls, couple of "holes" all in this wheeled cart that he drags around behind him.  Wields these implements around like a Jedi light saber trying to whack the ball around the family room.  Have to remain vigilant while he's swinging.  One day after I got these, grandma comes home with another set of clubs.  I doubt there is another 20 month old that already has two sets of sticks.  Perhaps a bad precedent, early childhood club ho development.

(Alas, the boy has woken up.  The change has taken place.  Now sitting in my lap, watching as I try and finish this composition.)

Whenever he goes to the basement, he makes a beeline to the club stash.  Grabs whenever implement that's at hand, and commences to wielding it around.  Knows where I have some balls around the work bench.  Swings club at ball.  Even more dangerously that with the plastic ones.  

(No touch.  Paws off the keyboard.)

Think he may have future potential.  We've been working on his grip some, the 10 finger seems to be working well for him.  For about 5 seconds.  Fella has to stick around for another 25 years.  We've got work to do.  It's become important.  

Gotta go, he's becoming rambunctious.
Good for you... not sure if part of my post said I didn't want to spend time with him, just had a way to make it a bit more fume less so to speak, or thought I did until vibration and gravity took over....We had plastic clubs that turned into real ones for all 3 kids, baseball gloves, pianos, and all sorts of things in between.  As I've said our computer time was meaningful, like yours, as it turned into flight simulator time, which eventually turned into pilot's license in real life. He just texted me an hour ago and is going to fly me on Father's Day morning across the state to an airport restaurant for breakfast. You will be so glad for the time you are investing, it comes back seven-fold :)  Enjoy, he's rambunctious because he loves being with you...

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#17762 Reasonability

Reasonability

    Mirror work is a good idea.

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:21 AM

Well said Sixty.   Lots of cool reading in here today! :read:
A cynic sees the cost of everything
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#17763 Reasonability

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:38 AM

Scomacer- I'm going to be honest and en route to disagreeing (let me explain) I'll end up agreeing.

Biking...

Have eye-witnessed multiple motorcycle accidents over the years.  Can't find the words to how horrific they are.  Think of a circus cannon shooting a human through the air, only in this case he launches broken and bleeding, lands into oncoming traffic and gets dismembered and well you get the picture.  Roadways around here conducive to safe and fun bike riding just don't exist.  The original design and intent put into building our abundance of two-lane, winding, hilly roads can barely sustain safe motor vehicle traffic and were never meant to be the place for a bicycle regardless of it's carbon graphite technology, multi-speed, open-road allure.   Around here, that doesn't stop the wave of bikers hell-bent on forcing their way and all who drive cars/trucks into danger.  My position on this isn't about being a cranky opinionated cuss.  It's about loathing the choice between a head-on collision, or killing some fun-loving innocent human who was just out there to relax and have some fun.

Here comes the 180 I promised.

While I see these endless miles of cul de sacs - public parks with miles of on and off road biking potential, stationary biking opportunities, and endless ways of getting it done effectively AND safely...  a very good friend of mine also knows back problems all too well.  And I believe him when he says there's nothing else quite like a good bike ride on the open road that gives his back SUSTAINABLE relief.  If he's lying to me about that, it would be first time I've ever caught that man in a lie.  He also picks where and when he rides very carefully to absolutely minimize risk to others and himself.

Just be careful out there my friend.  That spine and everything attached to it make for a terrible circus act.  I've hopefully witnessed my last view of what can happen out there and those little memory clips can't be erased.  Don't want to hear later on you've become a statistic.  If you tell me that open road option is the ONLY way to get it done and it works... I believe you.

EDIT:  Also - THANK YOU for responding to the grip and gate drill thing.  You and Fella and Bill (and all of you here) restore faith that some of my dribble does sometimes warrant a little feedback now and then!  lol.

Edited by Reasonability, 13 June 2018 - 11:42 AM.

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#17764 Reasonability

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:57 AM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 June 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 12 June 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Stuey -

If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me.  6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger.  5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg.  Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it.  I dunno.

What tip size you looking for?  If I was to hazard a guess, probably .355 tapers.  Have a set of .370 (5 - GW) Rifle 5.0 sitting around unused.  Blue labels, so after TT bought out Royal Precision.  Some have mentioned noticing a difference once Rifle became part of TT.  I question the validity of that.

It's a half flex change moving from 6.0 (S+) to 5.5 (S).  So whether the difference is noticeable is dependent on how perceptive one is to changes in shaft flex.  The usual caveat of everyone's different applies.  WTS, if your goal is to "soften up" moving forward, 1/2 flex is perhaps not worth the time or trouble.  

Here's a photo from a 2001 Golfsmith catalog with some info on the RP Rifle's.



And yet again, I sit in stark amazement at the level of commitment to help out a fellow golfer!  

So I hear ya.  The 5.5 thing has way more red-flags attached to it's potential success than its probably worth.  After reading your post I believe I'll stick with the 6.0 for another season or two.  It's clear that at some point they're going to be too much shaft for my aging swing.  For now - they're fine but the day will come when I can't give them what they're asking for.  

Your time with the little tyke.  Mighty good reading.  Ya know, our son cracked his Mama's ankle bone whacking at it with his little plastic kiddie clubs!  Felt horrible for her at the time.  Confess to at least "thinking" for a split second... "Hey this kid's got some POWER!"  lol.

Don't tell Mrs. Reason I said that!  Something tells me I'd end up with more than a cracked ankle bone.
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#17765 Reasonability

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:10 PM

One fine day - experiments with graphite shafted irons will come.  It tickles my curiosity too much for it not to one day become a road more traveled.

You guys remember when ALL shafts were steel.  Enter these whippy fiberglass shafts in drivers that sent it a mile out to the push side.  Everyone raced right back to steel.  But now graphite is in just about every driver sold while irons remain (by and large) steel from the OEM.

It begs the question - WHY?  If it's "better" for a driver why would it be "worse" for an iron?  That little riddle will one day drive me to go find out why.  No doubt the weight of the heads is in the equation but nowadays a shaft can be made to any imaginable weight, flex, tip size, yadda.

Edited by Reasonability, 13 June 2018 - 12:12 PM.

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#17766 Reasonability

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:38 PM

OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.

Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview.  He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.

His logic:  A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say).   This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin.  Ergo a little less loft is called for.  

Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft.  By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.

Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round.  He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one,  and his goal was to try to control both.  (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).  

So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft?   For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft?  Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.  

I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.  

I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other!  lol
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#17767 scomac2002

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:50 PM

I did a bit of volunteer fire fighting in my early twenties.  I've seen my share of carnage of various sorts.  Cycling is not a no risk undertaking and that is exacerbated by motorists who don't give adequate way.  As more cyclists hit the road awareness has improved, but by the same token I sympathize with those motorists who run across a swarm of cyclists who won't give way to the motorists either as well as breaking rules of the road at intersections, etc.

We have quite a bit of cycling infrastructure in town with segregated bike lanes, multi-use paths, etc., but once again as is typical of our times there isn't much consideration given to others beyond get the hell outa my way!  :(  S o, it's always a matter of looking out for everyone else cause you never know what might happen.  That said, I'd like to explore some of the bike friendly areas more fully in my area rather than riding the country roads that have become commuter thoroughfares.   When on the road locally I always time my rides to avoid commuting hours and that has been satisfactory when going for rides of up to an hour.  I've had a couple of close calls over the years often resulting in a change of route and or timing as a preventative measure.  That said, I'm realizing that often times the right thing to do is to drive to the area you want to explore and then venture out from there.  (It has occurred to me that if we do move further east into the peninsula I will likely join a riding club there that caters to older cyclists that aren't interested in race culture.  My SIL rides periodically with that group.)  We'll see how I progress going forward and how long it takes me to gain some type of riding condition as to how many adventures I attempt.
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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#17768 scomac2002

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:52 PM

A couple of topics that are of interest to me:

Graphite shafts in irons:

I'm a fan.  I've played graphite shafted irons for 10 years now.  Oh sure, I took time off with steel shafted alternatives, but in the end I see no advantage to steel beyond cost.  If you suffer from tendinitis and I do, graphite is a godsend!  If you're getting older and losing swing speed the weight savings is also welcome once you make the adjustment.  The first couple of seasons that I played my i25's I had about 2" of high density lead tape on each one.  Now I have none.  The trick now is finding appropriate wedge(s) to play with them which is leading me to graphite shafted wedges, a $10 option if you order from the factory which in the day of $200 wedges is no more than they'll charge to alter the lie angle or loft.

Loft versus shaft length in drivers:

I think Phil is onto something.  I remember last year that the old timers got taking about when they switched to steel from persimmon especially if the new driver had a graphite shaft that they lofted down from 10-10.5 on the persies to 8.5-9.5 with the steel head drivers.  Perhaps Phil is just revisiting the physics of generations earlier.  

I struggled to get any sort of performance out of my 913 driver when I first acquired it,  It has a 12° head and I tried it all the way up to 13.5° with no benefit.  After talking with Fella over the winter about how he had his 910 head set I went the opposite direction and dropped the loft to 11.25° and may even go down to 10.5° to see if there's a benefit.  I don't have a lot of reps to go on for obvious reasons, but the darned thing came to life for me being more consistent directionally and the flatter trajectory didn't fall out of the sky quite the same as before.
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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#17769 BIG STU

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:40 PM

View PostReasonability, on 12 June 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Stuey -

If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me.  6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger.  5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg.  Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it.  I dunno.
Will do I file stuff like that in my mind and believe it or not remember it--- On the other hand I can not tell you what I ate for supper last night
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
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#17770 scotee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:49 PM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 June 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 13 June 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

Perhaps it could be pointed out that men may be highly allergic to these unless DW is not around, but then I wouldn't know, right? ha

View PostSixtySomePing, on 13 June 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

Funny story, when our second baby was in need of changing one day, my wife asked if I would change his diaper in his room, which was on the second story. Of course I set a fan in the window against the screen blowing on me to keep the odors at bay while I did the quick lane change routine. Meanwhile she was in the kitchen below cooking something for supper. Well the screen popped out at the bottom from the vibration, and gravity took over and the fan fell out and down to the ground and broke into many pieces. I finished changing him, and took him downstairs, and she calmly said 'this time get one of those that sits on the pole so it stays put'... she hadn't even looked, she just knew what happened...maybe she heard the crash :dntknw:

Not Fella.  The "quick lane change" is part of the morning ritual.  Seven days a week, when the lad wakes up about 7:30 a.m.  As I've mentioned before in these chronicles, our granddaughter and great-grandson live with us.  It's a joy and wouldn't have it any other way.  I've become so accustomed to the change, don't even think about.  Just tell the lad, "No fooling around.  Let's get fresh and be done with it."  He listens to his 'Da'.  We then share the early morning time together, him sitting in my lap, sometimes viewing WRX on the screen as I try and keep his paws off the keyboard.  Life has a way of of taking unanticipated directions.  

Related.  So I figured that it was time for the lad to have his own plastic golf club set.  So bought him his first set.  Three plastic "clubs" some balls, couple of "holes" all in this wheeled cart that he drags around behind him.  Wields these implements around like a Jedi light saber trying to whack the ball around the family room.  Have to remain vigilant while he's swinging.  One day after I got these, grandma comes home with another set of clubs.  I doubt there is another 20 month old that already has two sets of sticks.  Perhaps a bad precedent, early childhood club ho development.

(Alas, the boy has woken up.  The change has taken place.  Now sitting in my lap, watching as I try and finish this composition.)

Whenever he goes to the basement, he makes a beeline to the club stash.  Grabs whenever implement that's at hand, and commences to wielding it around.  Knows where I have some balls around the work bench.  Swings club at ball.  Even more dangerously that with the plastic ones.  

(No touch.  Paws off the keyboard.)

Think he may have future potential.  We've been working on his grip some, the 10 finger seems to be working well for him.  For about 5 seconds.  Fella has to stick around for another 25 years.  We've got work to do.  It's become important.  

Gotta go, he's becoming rambunctious.

You are making me smile Fella. I get to see 2 of our 6 grandkids once a week. The 4 yr. old boy is quite the ham. He called me yesterday and asked if I knew how to cut through the Ocean? "No Grady how do you cut through the ocean?"  "With a seesaw"  He is into knock knock jokes. He makes up some of his own that don't always make any sense at all but he thinks they are hilarious. The jokes aren't but he is!  Glad you are getting this time with them :) And yes I have and do get changing duty every now and then on the little ones. And rambunctious? Wish I could bottle it and get a dose for myself once in awhile. Their energy is endless!

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#17771 BIG STU

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 12 June 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

If I'm in the grille/clubhouse talking and having a beer or two, I will talk equipment if I have seen someone with a club that interests me. I was going to say I'd talk equipment if I'd seen their bag, but I felt that might go in the wrong direction...lol. Anyway, I'll ask a stranger- how do you like "insert club/shaft here". Especially if I see one old club in a new-ish bag. I'm always really interested in a really old club that the owner can't get out of the bag. I know they try to, but they don't find anything better and come back again and again. Do any of you have any "older" clubs that you can't get rid of and play regularly?

I played a Nike Ignite 410 tour issue head with a UST Proforce PROTO that was just incredible. I got it just as the 460 craze was starting, of course I didn't want to lose the displacement battle so I tried a litany of 460 drivers and always came back to the Ignite 410. I wound up with a TM R1 and that gave the 410 a run but I was inconsistent with the TDR1 so the 410 always wound up in the bag if my driving was off. The 410 was permanently retired when I picked up a 2017 M1, that sealed the deal but the 410 had a 13yr run.

Another item that WILL NOT go away has been the Oban Devotion that I have played since I got the R1. I have purchased 15-20 shafts looking for something better and it never happens. I pay. I play. I put the Devo back in. I have not found anything better for my swing and the R1 and M1 heads.

What club has stood the test of time with you?
Well for a long time like 25 years it was a Ping Zing 2 putter. Now for a long time I was not really a club ho. That started when I got into the golf shop business. I played the same set of 66 Power Bilt Custom Grind Citation irons for 10 years and wore them out. I bought my first set of VIPs in 90 brand new and played them mostly until maybe a year ago. I did carry my first metal fairway wood for 13 seasons it was a old Callaway Steelhead tour head. The only reason I quit hitting it was because the old Pro Force 65 Gold got too stiff for me. I guess for me now the old Cleveland 588s are the oldest in the bag. Those heads I have had since the late 90s. My buddy the Miura dealer did some extensive shaft work on them about 5 years back and I did a grind job on the 60. I am a wedge ho and experiment around with wedges a lot but when it comes to brass tacks those 2 588s are in the bag. Before I became a real club ho I did play a set of MP-33 blades for a couple of years. Note: The Vips in my signature are not the original set> Fellow WRXer Mitchell sent them to me 2 years ago and they were pristine but had Brunswick 7.0 shafts in them which are telephone poles for me now. I had always wanted to build a set of Macgregors with real Hogan Apex shafts. I built those last fall.
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
4 wood 16.5 TM V-Steel Stock TM Stiff
Hybrid Adams Peanut 22* Stock Adams stiff hybrid shaft
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- 1987 Vintage Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Rusty and beat up nicknamed "Rusty"
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer or Vintage Titleist Mini Staff
Vintage-- Too many variables to list and I get tired of updating this thing!
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Home of Redneck Hippie golf where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stop

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#17772 SilverBullets

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:24 PM

View Postscomac2002, on 13 June 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

I did a bit of volunteer fire fighting in my early twenties.  I've seen my share of carnage of various sorts.  Cycling is not a no risk undertaking and that is exacerbated by motorists who don't give adequate way.  As more cyclists hit the road awareness has improved, but by the same token I sympathize with those motorists who run across a swarm of cyclists who won't give way to the motorists either as well as breaking rules of the road at intersections, etc.

We have quite a bit of cycling infrastructure in town with segregated bike lanes, multi-use paths, etc., but once again as is typical of our times there isn't much consideration given to others beyond get the hell outa my way!  :(  S o, it's always a matter of looking out for everyone else cause you never know what might happen.  That said, I'd like to explore some of the bike friendly areas more fully in my area rather than riding the country roads that have become commuter thoroughfares.   When on the road locally I always time my rides to avoid commuting hours and that has been satisfactory when going for rides of up to an hour.  I've had a couple of close calls over the years often resulting in a change of route and or timing as a preventative measure.  That said, I'm realizing that often times the right thing to do is to drive to the area you want to explore and then venture out from there.  (It has occurred to me that if we do move further east into the peninsula I will likely join a riding club there that caters to older cyclists that aren't interested in race culture.  My SIL rides periodically with that group.)  We'll see how I progress going forward and how long it takes me to gain some type of riding condition as to how many adventures I attempt.

One of my favorite parts about Phoenix is the canal.  Along both sides of the canal is a 40-50 mile paved bike/running/walking path.  From central phoenix to Peoria, the canal provides an express route which means tunnels under all major roads.  I live a block from an access point to the canal and ride 20ish miles on it weekly.  It's a great amenity to have.  Back in Ohio it was always street riding.  Generally that mean slower rides on 'safer' residential streets.  Being able to hop on an unobstructed bike path and ride to Old Town Scottsdale, Tempe or take a long ride across the city is pretty awesome.
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#17773 Spooky67

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:29 PM

View PostReasonability, on 13 June 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.

Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview.  He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.

His logic:  A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say).   This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin.  Ergo a little less loft is called for.  

Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft.  By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.

Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round.  He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one,  and his goal was to try to control both.  (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).  

So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft?   For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft?  Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.  

I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.  

I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other!  lol

I remember when draw and fade biased drivers hit the market and Phil actually carried one of each in his bag during the Masters, two drivers in the bag. I think he pulled his 3w if I remember correctly..? Don't remember if he kept them in for the entire tournament but I do remember him carrying one of each during competition. IMO Phil isn't afraid to make a little money if you get what I'm saying...lol. He's also a bit of a club ho and likes to try different stuff so who knows...

Edited by Spooky67, 13 June 2018 - 04:40 PM.


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#17774 Conrad1953

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 June 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 12 June 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Stuey -

If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me.  6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger.  5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg.  Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it.  I dunno.

What tip size you looking for?  If I was to hazard a guess, probably .355 tapers.  Have a set of .370 (5 - GW) Rifle 5.0 sitting around unused.  Blue labels, so after TT bought out Royal Precision.  Some have mentioned noticing a difference once Rifle became part of TT.  I question the validity of that.

It's a half flex change moving from 6.0 (S+) to 5.5 (S).  So whether the difference is noticeable is dependent on how perceptive one is to changes in shaft flex.  The usual caveat of everyone's different applies.  WTS, if your goal is to "soften up" moving forward, 1/2 flex is perhaps not worth the time or trouble.  

Here's a photo from a 2001 Golfsmith catalog with some info on the RP Rifle's.



I have those Rifle flighted (FCM) shafts in my Mac combo set. They are 5.0s and by today's
standards, fairly heavy at 135 grams...………..but they don't feel any heavier to me than my
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these are the Royal Precision (pre TT) shafts....stepless. The shaft bands are still there and
in good shape.
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#17775 scotee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:46 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 12 June 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

If I'm in the grille/clubhouse talking and having a beer or two, I will talk equipment if I have seen someone with a club that interests me. I was going to say I'd talk equipment if I'd seen their bag, but I felt that might go in the wrong direction...lol. Anyway, I'll ask a stranger- how do you like "insert club/shaft here". Especially if I see one old club in a new-ish bag. I'm always really interested in a really old club that the owner can't get out of the bag. I know they try to, but they don't find anything better and come back again and again. Do any of you have any "older" clubs that you can't get rid of and play regularly?

I played a Nike Ignite 410 tour issue head with a UST Proforce PROTO that was just incredible. I got it just as the 460 craze was starting, of course I didn't want to lose the displacement battle so I tried a litany of 460 drivers and always came back to the Ignite 410. I wound up with a TM R1 and that gave the 410 a run but I was inconsistent with the TDR1 so the 410 always wound up in the bag if my driving was off. The 410 was permanently retired when I picked up a 2017 M1, that sealed the deal but the 410 had a 13yr run.

Another item that WILL NOT go away has been the Oban Devotion that I have played since I got the R1. I have purchased 15-20 shafts looking for something better and it never happens. I pay. I play. I put the Devo back in. I have not found anything better for my swing and the R1 and M1 heads.

What club has stood the test of time with you?

For me it is two clubs. Cleveland Launcher Comp 5 wood with that Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue shaft that Conrad likes. I had the driver and 3 wood. The driver was one of my best but suddenly I could not hit it high enough. The 3 wood had a heavier shaft that was always too "board like" I kept the 5 and still like it a lot.  The other is my non-conforming Callaway Mac Daddy 58 deg. lob wedge. Old and rusty but I love the sole grind and being a member here of the OGA (outlaw golf association)  no one cares that I still use it. If you don't know about the OGA, Big Stu is our president and all around bad A$$ good guy :) and will give you a membership number if you like the idea.  Oh and welcome to the Grille.

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#17776 scotee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:56 PM

View PostSpooky67, on 13 June 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostReasonability, on 13 June 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.

Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview.  He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.

His logic:  A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say).   This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin.  Ergo a little less loft is called for.  

Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft.  By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.

Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round.  He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one,  and his goal was to try to control both.  (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).  

So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft?   For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft?  Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.  

I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.  

I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other!  lol

I remember when draw and fade biased drivers hit the market and Phil actually carried one of each in his bag during the Masters, two drivers in the bag. I think he pulled his 3w if I remember correctly..? Don't remember if he kept them in for the entire tournament but I do remember him carrying one of each during competition. IMO Phil isn't afraid to make a little money if you get what I'm saying...lol. He's also a bit of a club ho and likes to try different stuff so who knows...

Screen Shot 2018-06-13 at 2.54.59 PM.png
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#17777 tolmij

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:27 PM

What an interesting read this morning, such diverse topics.

Shaft and fitting. There seems to be some competition as to which one of the Grillers is the most knowledgeable, I find myself hitting my head on the wall to try and clear the grey matter. I suppose when you do it for so long it becomes second nature. Never thought much about shafts untill my son purchased the clubs with graphite shafts for my Xmas present then I could feel and see the improvement in my shots, it has not impacted my scores to that extent but I can now have better controls about where the ball finishes.

Unisex toilets. DW and myself volunteered in an age care facility, all staff toilets were unisex. DW refused to use them as she could not get used to the idea of seeing a male person when she used it. I only used the facility once and was sharing it with a female staff member when I walked in, walked out and never used it again, I may be old fashioned but somethings are private between people of the same sex, toilets are one of them. I think the modern I can be what sex I like is only an opportunity for perverts to get themselves off. As with everything, it will go full circle and normality will be resumed, it’s only going to take some deviant to abuse it to bring about a change.

How about the college lads/girls. One person won a foot race a month ago as a boy, this week he identified as a girl and won a girls foot race, where is the justification for that, where is the justice for the girls that worked hard for that race to be cheated out of a win.

Well done Fella, more and more people are now living in mixed family groups, our son asked if we wanted to purchase a house between us, the result we can afford more as the bills are shared, a larger house and we will also have some support later in life. It’s really good being an influence on youngsters, always liked working with children it’s so satisfying to see them achieve something.

Into the studio now, painting day.
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#17778 SixtySomePing

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:47 PM

View PostBIG STU, on 13 June 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostSpooky67, on 12 June 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

If I'm in the grille/clubhouse talking and having a beer or two, I will talk equipment if I have seen someone with a club that interests me. I was going to say I'd talk equipment if I'd seen their bag, but I felt that might go in the wrong direction...lol. Anyway, I'll ask a stranger- how do you like "insert club/shaft here". Especially if I see one old club in a new-ish bag. I'm always really interested in a really old club that the owner can't get out of the bag. I know they try to, but they don't find anything better and come back again and again. Do any of you have any "older" clubs that you can't get rid of and play regularly?

I played a Nike Ignite 410 tour issue head with a UST Proforce PROTO that was just incredible. I got it just as the 460 craze was starting, of course I didn't want to lose the displacement battle so I tried a litany of 460 drivers and always came back to the Ignite 410. I wound up with a TM R1 and that gave the 410 a run but I was inconsistent with the TDR1 so the 410 always wound up in the bag if my driving was off. The 410 was permanently retired when I picked up a 2017 M1, that sealed the deal but the 410 had a 13yr run.

Another item that WILL NOT go away has been the Oban Devotion that I have played since I got the R1. I have purchased 15-20 shafts looking for something better and it never happens. I pay. I play. I put the Devo back in. I have not found anything better for my swing and the R1 and M1 heads.

What club has stood the test of time with you?
Well for a long time like 25 years it was a Ping Zing 2 putter. Now for a long time I was not really a club ho. That started when I got into the golf shop business. I played the same set of 66 Power Bilt Custom Grind Citation irons for 10 years and wore them out. I bought my first set of VIPs in 90 brand new and played them mostly until maybe a year ago. I did carry my first metal fairway wood for 13 seasons it was a old Callaway Steelhead tour head. The only reason I quit hitting it was because the old Pro Force 65 Gold got too stiff for me. I guess for me now the old Cleveland 588s are the oldest in the bag. Those heads I have had since the late 90s. My buddy the Miura dealer did some extensive shaft work on them about 5 years back and I did a grind job on the 60. I am a wedge ho and experiment around with wedges a lot but when it comes to brass tacks those 2 588s are in the bag. Before I became a real club ho I did play a set of MP-33 blades for a couple of years. Note: The Vips in my signature are not the original set> Fellow WRXer Mitchell sent them to me 2 years ago and they were pristine but had Brunswick 7.0 shafts in them which are telephone poles for me now. I had always wanted to build a set of Macgregors with real Hogan Apex shafts. I built those last fall.
Ah, Ping Zing... Wish I still had all my Ping Zing stuff back, I had an entire set, Ping Zing irons, Zinger Driver, and Fairway woods, and Putter. I went to Tisi titanium fairway woods which I still use, and the only thing I have left which I keep in the garage (have no reason why) is the driver.. I just went out and took a pic a while ago after supper... although this pic doesn't make it look like it, the head is small, and it has a rubber grip too (original). So the head on my G driver is giant compared to this one

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18

#17779 billh17

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:10 PM

View PostReasonability, on 13 June 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

One fine day - experiments with graphite shafted irons will come.  It tickles my curiosity too much for it not to one day become a road more traveled.

You guys remember when ALL shafts were steel.  Enter these whippy fiberglass shafts in drivers that sent it a mile out to the push side.  Everyone raced right back to steel.  But now graphite is in just about every driver sold while irons remain (by and large) steel from the OEM.

It begs the question - WHY?  If it's "better" for a driver why would it be "worse" for an iron?  That little riddle will one day drive me to go find out why.  No doubt the weight of the heads is in the equation but nowadays a shaft can be made to any imaginable weight, flex, tip size, yadda.

Funny you mentioned this... Before I started this One Length trip, The irons I had used since about 2000 were graphite shafts. I am seriously
considering getting a set of graphite in the one lengths ..if I decide to continue them. The graphite were as consistent as any I have played.
They were almost exactly the same distance wise as the steel i had before.  They ARE a club longer than the one lengths. They sure seem
to have been a lot easier on my lead wrist and elbow....and the fingers in my trail hand...nothing serious..just never felt any issues the day after.
The graphite shafts in todays irons are probably as good as steel.  I know tradition is blahblahblah...but I am older,and if they help me in any
way they are going to get looked at ! Hence the changing one length to graphite down the road.
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19

#17780 billh17

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

To you guys and your grandkids.... Now is a lot of fun,and I hope you are able to soak up every minute. The really great time is when
they ask you to teach them how to play, and then later you get to enjoy a beautiful early morning,or a late afternoon sun,on the course
with them. Talking about golf....life....or sports....or whatever.. Those are the great times. You will be making memories that will
last a lifetime . I honestly hope each of you are as lucky as I have been with my granddaughter. You will cherish it .

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#17781 tolmij

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
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21

#17782 SixtySomePing

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:45 AM

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.
You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.
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#17783 tolmij

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:29 AM

View PostSixtySomePing, on 14 June 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, itís regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.
You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.
http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf

How lucky civilised cyclists :).    We have dedicated cycling paths that are usually only a painted line on the normal road, cyclists are supposed to keep to them and cars are not supposed to drive in them. Usually cyclists drive outside them or more than one abreast so they cannot remain inside of them. Usually they use the normal highways.

Have you heard the term she will be right mate, it covers many things but usually means stuff it, no matter what everything will work out. This is the general Australian attitude, cyclists are no different.

Edited by tolmij, 14 June 2018 - 04:34 AM.

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#17784 scomac2002

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:53 AM

View PostSixtySomePing, on 14 June 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.
You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.
http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf

Our area is very similar to Sixty's as well in terms of cycling infrastructure including an expansive bike share program featuring the Sobi bike system.  I haven't used it personally, but I have used the Bixi bike system in Montreal on a couple of occasions.

I've ridden a couple of the more scenic routes on the maps that can be linked to from the following page:

https://www.hamilton...ing-routes-maps

The waterfront trail is an easy route that follows along the Lake Ontario lakeshore and is part of a large provincial network route that goes all the way from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Oshawa.  I've also done the Dundas Waterfalls route which is fairly demanding due to scaling and then descending the escarpment via older access roads versus the gentle slopes that are featured on the escarpment rail trails.  There are two cycling routes that travel east-west through the city featuring segregated lanes featuring bollards to provide cyclists with a relatively safe means of getting through the city.  It's a pretty good set-up with a great mix of routes for those inclined to take advantage.
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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24

#17785 tolmij

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:39 AM

View Postscomac2002, on 14 June 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 14 June 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.
You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.
http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf

Our area is very similar to Sixty's as well in terms of cycling infrastructure including an expansive bike share program featuring the Sobi bike system.  I haven't used it personally, but I have used the Bixi bike system in Montreal on a couple of occasions.

I've ridden a couple of the more scenic routes on the maps that can be linked to from the following page:

https://www.hamilton...ing-routes-maps

The waterfront trail is an easy route that follows along the Lake Ontario lakeshore and is part of a large provincial network route that goes all the way from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Oshawa.  I've also done the Dundas Waterfalls route which is fairly demanding due to scaling and then descending the escarpment via older access roads versus the gentle slopes that are featured on the escarpment rail trails.  There are two cycling routes that travel east-west through the city featuring segregated lanes featuring bollards to provide cyclists with a relatively safe means of getting through the city.  It's a pretty good set-up with a great mix of routes for those inclined to take advantage.

From what you are both saying, it appears cycling is more a method of relaxation, in Australia it is a method of transport, to and from work.

Way down under in (not New Orleans) Australia.

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#17786 scomac2002

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:15 AM

Oh, it's definitely a method of transportation for the urban dweller who doesn't own or want to own a car.  I know several folks that fall into this category particularly in Toronto and they're not all millennials either.  The cycling culture has been growing in this country for at least a decade or more, particularly from a transport perspective.  All of our city buses are equipped with bike carriers so that you can mutli mode your transportation options.  I've frequently seen bikes being brought on the intercity Go Trains so that once at your destination you've got a method to get around.  If anything, cycling for transport is the growth area.
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


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26

#17787 billh17

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
it is heading down the same path here in rural southern Ohio..dont know about the bigger cities,but in the country,the residents are
constantly in danger of the city people bringing their bikes to the country and riding like  you described on country roads.. I have came to
the top of a hill...doing the speed limit(55),and found a bunch of cyclists ...stopped in the middle of the lane...talking.....They were from the
city...because NO country man/woman would wear spandex riding outfits !
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27

#17788 billh17

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

Down here also,we have the Amish..with their horse pulled buggies...I see young kids,maybe 12/14 age on the roads,driving the buggy.
Have heard of several accidents...none really fatal,thank goodness. Every one has been either a young new driver of the car,or a city
person on the two lane road and wasn't aware that the SLOW buggies use the same lane !  Everyone here is used to them and know to be careful
on two lane roads.
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#17789 billh17

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:47 AM

watching the Open before I go out for 9 this afternoon...the USGA has a new commercial running ,to help the problem
of the length of time it takes to play a round.
Play ready golf.....NO
Marshalls.............NO
increased tee interval.....NO
pick up after triple bogey....NO
their solution is ....When you dont have the time for a round....PLAY 9.....
This helps the ones who are now playing 9... they are in no hurry at all..because they get done in 2 3/4 instead of 5 .
The ones who are playing 18 are further screwed...more playing 9 so now 18 takes 5 1/2  
And in a few years we will start with the complaints of how long it takes to play 9.
Another great solution by the USGA which only bothers the lowly non-pros....
And we all know when this starts kicking in,you will have absolutely no more thinking you leave the 9th and go tee off on 10...nonono...
management has slammed a bunch of "play niners" off in front of you.....welcome to the future...lol
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29

#17790 SixtySomePing

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:12 AM

View Postscomac2002, on 14 June 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 14 June 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

View Posttolmij, on 13 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bicycles. Boooooooooo.

Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.

No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door.  They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration  but quite often refuse to use them when they are there,  but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.

I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.
You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.
http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf

Our area is very similar to Sixty's as well in terms of cycling infrastructure including an expansive bike share program featuring the Sobi bike system.  I haven't used it personally, but I have used the Bixi bike system in Montreal on a couple of occasions.

I've ridden a couple of the more scenic routes on the maps that can be linked to from the following page:

https://www.hamilton...ing-routes-maps

The waterfront trail is an easy route that follows along the Lake Ontario lakeshore and is part of a large provincial network route that goes all the way from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Oshawa.  I've also done the Dundas Waterfalls route which is fairly demanding due to scaling and then descending the escarpment via older access roads versus the gentle slopes that are featured on the escarpment rail trails.  There are two cycling routes that travel east-west through the city featuring segregated lanes featuring bollards to provide cyclists with a relatively safe means of getting through the city.  It's a pretty good set-up with a great mix of routes for those inclined to take advantage.
Very nice on the lake, that has to be a beautiful view.

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