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Confessions 12 --- Exploding Heads

An Explosee of Mindnumbness

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#31 Matt J

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 12:46 AM

My miss is a pull with the three wood too.  Quick, probably lean towards playing it too far forward, overswing and hang on too long.  Don't usually do it when I'm laying up, but almost every time I'm trying to reach a par 5 in two.  It's like the anti-block swing.

Weird how sometimes you hit a total anomaly out on the course.  I pulled a hard 3 wood yesterday and flew it 15 or 20 yards longer than I normally hit one.  I was almost proud of how hard I crushed it if it hadn't been 10 yards right of the green and deep.

One day I'd like to join a real club where they go in and change your spikes for you.  One of my least favorite tasks and one I forget to do, too, KnockItClose.  Good night fellas, early tee time... day 4 in a row.  Thank god my wife is out of town or I'd be looking for a good divorce attorney :)


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#32 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 12:50 AM

:busted_cop:  WARNING :busted_cop:

By reading this post any further, AND you still think high bounce is "helping" you so much, your head may explode.  Alternatively you may finally understand that I'm really trying to help you!  (Which means help your golf game too.)

:beach: END OF WARNING :beach:

This is a short quiz for any HBBs (High Bounce Believers) that still believe there is a significant benefit to bounce that outweighs all of its detriments.  The only requirements to taking this quiz are that you answer truthfully and to the best of your abilities.  Also you may need to really study the differences between a low and high bounce wedge (...ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL...) and even hit some shots with both of them.  (Take your time before responding!)  You can just envision this all if you want and just treat it as another "thought experiment".  And lastly, to set one parameter equal, please answer under the assumption that the lie is soft turf after a rain where supposedly high bounce helps.

1) What is the actual physical measurement that bounce changes the bottom point of the wedge?  1/2"?  1/32"?  1mm?  Fractions of a millimeter?  Other?  Meaning, how much physically different is a low and high bounce club from a height perspective?

2) Also, at the tip of the leading edge of the high and low bounce wedges, how much more is the radius of it?  The tip forms a curve (just like a "ski tip", right?) and the high bounce wedge will have more curvature.  Estimate how much physically more this is using the radius of the curvature.  Is it 1/2"?  1/32", 1mm?  Fractions of a millimeter?  Other?

3) When you hit a shot where the high bounce club actually "helped" you, how far back from a good shot (where you didn't need the bounce) did you hit the ground first?  1/2"?  1/32"?  1mm?  Fractions of a millimeter?  Other?

4) Based on your answer to question 3), how different is the "saved" shot when using a low bounce club as compared to a high bounce club?  Remember, a low bounce club also has a curved leading edge and rounded bottom, so you will still "save" some shots with a low bounce club too.  So how far as compared to your answer to 3) above is this?

5) Based on all your answers to questions 1) through 4), please explain, based on your own understanding of the physics, how the dimensions of 1) and 2) explain the size of 3) and 4)?  Meaning, how can they be different or how can they be the same?  For example, Is 1) > 3) and why is it that way?  Is 2) < 4) and why is that?  Why are any of them equal with each other?  Please consider ALL combinations and justify each one using physics to the best of your ability.

Now let's consider the flipside argument, the low bounce dig.

6) When you dig the club with a low bounce wedge, physically how deep would you dig before it became a bad shot?  1/2"?  1/32"?  1mm?  Fractions of a millimeter?  Other?

7) When you dig the club with a high bounce wedge, physically how deep would you dig before it became a bad shot?  1/2"?  1/32"?  1mm?  Fractions of a millimeter?  Other?

8) Based on all your answers to questions 1), 2), 6), and 7), please explain, based on your own understanding of the physics, how the dimensions of 1) and 2) explain the size of 6) and 7)?  Meaning, how can they be different or how can they be the same?  For example, Is 1) > 7) and why is it that way?  Is 2) < 6) and why is that?  Why are any of them equal with each other?  Please consider ALL combinations and justify each one using physics to the best of your ability.

Now let's consider how these shots are actually created.

9) Envision creating the "saved" bounce shots from 3) and 4) above and all the details of how it happens.  What is the AoA that would create each shot?  Are they the same AoAs?  Too steep?  Too shallow?  How and why are they different if so?

10) Based on your answer to 9), what would happen to those same shots if you hit them EXACTLY the same, BUT... you were using the OTHER bounce club?  Would the shot(s) then turn into a mishit?  Would the shot(s) then be saved?  Please explain it with your understanding of the physics.

11) Envision creating the "dug" mishit shots from 6) and 7) above and all the details of how it happens.  Are they from different AoAs?  How different if so?

12) How is it that it is so easy to take a really long divot in soft wet ground but yet the clubs bounce such a short distance as per your answers to 3) and 4) above?

BTW, I have no issue if this post is completely ignored.  Simply consider it twelve of the "dirty dozen" questions that I have asked myself a million (<- exaggeration so please don't nitpick) times before coming to my conclusions that high bounce has ZERO benefit from a theoretical perspective.

Note also that all of these questions should be asked for EVERY type of wedge lie, but I chose one of the more conventional lies.  If you care to answer all of it for other lie types, feel free.  Or just ignore.

Edited by DeNinny, 13 May 2016 - 02:43 AM.

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#33 knock it close

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 12:59 AM

De does where the peak, I guess you could say, bounce is located in the sole matter? And if so where do you think it should be. I use 5* in my 59 so I'm part of the LBU (Low Bouncers United).
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#34 Matt J

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 01:01 AM

Ninja, I was thinking of you today when one of the announcers at the Players said that most of the guys are using a low bounce 60 degree out of the bunkers.  I was also thinking about how nice it would be to play out of their sand.  I'll get back to your questionaire when I have a week of vacation to think about it ;)

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#35 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 01:04 AM

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

MC, replaceable spikes all the way.  Even with the newer athletic style shoes I gotta have spikes or I slide around, mostly my trail foot hitting driver.

I do miss metal spikes.  Real golf shoes.

Another great 3 wood trick and I know I've said it before, but will say it again.  High loft.  If it's adjustable crank it all the way open.  If you want a glued hosel then take a 4 wood and run a longer shaft.  BIG STU approved.

I absolutely miss metal spikes.  Except walking on concrete with them.  Unnerving.

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#36 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 01:34 AM

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

Ninja, I was thinking of you today when one of the announcers at the Players said that most of the guys are using a low bounce 60 degree out of the bunkers.  I was also thinking about how nice it would be to play out of their sand.  I'll get back to your questionaire when I have a week of vacation to think about it ;)

Matt J, I really appreciate and HIGHLY respect this.  Also I want to mention that, I really (really) appreciate how you have interacted with me throughout all of our discussion on this topic.  I think you are one of the only ones that didn't agree with me that also didn't try to mock me.   Thanks for being a little more open minded than some.

And have a great vacation!!!
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#37 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 02:00 AM

View Postknock it close, on 13 May 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

De does where the peak, I guess you could say, bounce is located in the sole matter? And if so where do you think it should be. I use 5* in my 59 so I'm part of the LBU (Low Bouncers United).

Wow knockit, that is a good one that I haven't quite nailed yet.  I love these questions because they make me go back and try to derive the answer and in doing so it reinforces and refines my understanding.  I have thought about it a lot before, but all that I can ever conclude is that the bounce only needs to be as curved as the natural swing arc, with maybe some more roundedness towards the leading edge just to account for error and different swings and AoAs.  

Also wherever it is, it cannot be lower than the face such that it contacts the ground before the face contacts the ball.  But since AoA is changing and also since you have some margin of error for clean face contact, these two variables makes it hard to pinpoint an ideal and specific bounce location.  But the more and more you make the bounce, for sure the more and more you will raise the leading edge and make clean ball contact harder and harder

This is a tough evaluation.  I hate to write it off as "too many variables" but it is looking like this is my answer considering AoA and error differences from golfer to golfer.   All I really can say definitively is play as low of a bounce as the wedge manufacturer that you like makes and make sure there is still some bounce on the bottom of it.  Also simply avoid high bounce clubs and don't even bother with them.

If I think of anything else down the road I will bring it up again.

LMAO re:  LBU.  Well played!  :drinks:  :beruo:
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#38 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 03:00 AM

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Here we are at number 12. There is absolutely nothing left to say that
hasn't been said.....and our heads are exploding......ya, sure......... :D
thread tribute:

https://youtu.be/-ST85Sui43Q
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#39 Pigems

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 04:58 AM

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Here we are at number 12. There is absolutely nothing left to say that
hasn't been said.....and our heads are exploding......ya, sure......... :D


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#40 Fellaheen51

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:02 AM

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 May 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

These threads are free form MJ. The head exploding thing is about physics based analyses of the role of bounce in wedge shots. Other than that, there's a lot of swing thought stuff, life stuff, food stuff, music stuff, relationships stuff, talking about rounds stuff, you know..

You would be a great and honored addition to the conversation. You are legend you know...

Thank goodness, Confessions 12 and perhaps a clean break from "Bounce Talk".  Did I not see bike talk early on ITT?  Thought that was verboten?  I posted bike talk in 11 and was reprimanded.  LOL.  

Mt. Jeff, still trying to figure out what Confessions is about as well.  Best not to over analyze it.  Just let one thoughts flow in a "Stream of Consciousness" sort of way.  Lots of insider lingo.  The regs use terminology that requires  a bit of deciphering and translation.  Perhaps there should be a Confessions glossary.

And there is an ongoing recruiting drive for the OGA.  All that is required is putting forth your choice of a membership number and a profess your disgust with all things USGA.  Big Stu will anoint and you're in...once you post your affiliation in your sig.

Laissez les bons temps rouler!

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#41 Pigems

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:04 AM

View Postknock it close, on 13 May 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 12 May 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think the 3 wood is the hardest club to hit.  If I could only practice with one club, I'd hit 3 wood off the deck exclusively.  I feel like I can tell more about my swing hitting 3 wood than any other shot.  I've actually started hitting mine off the tee a lot more often too.  A regular Henrik Stenson minus the talent.  But, I can feel ya, Conrad.  I used to carry a PING 2 iron as a teenager.  As soon as I sprayed a drive, 2 iron off the tee the rest of the day.  I'd beat one of my buddies and he'd say I'd rather lose than admit failure with the driver.  I wish we played for money back then.

The thing is when I pull 3 wood off the tee it's a purely positional shot.  I don't care if it goes 195 or 245 as long as it shapes the way I want.  Usually a cut, it can be high and short, low and roll out, or on the screws and almost as long as driver.

Had a weird round today... doubled the first hole, bogeyed the fourth from 75 yards out, and then birdied 4 of the last 5 holes to come in even par on the front.  Totally exploded on the back, but it was hotter than hades and we were drinking pretty early so I lost energy and concentration.

I hit pulled a 5 wood about 15 yards right of the ninth green onto our chipping green.  The owner acts like this chipping green is super special, and it is nice, but it's not like a "real" green.  Anyways, I've never seen anything about a local rule to take relief and there are no stakes, so I hit a flop off of it.  First time I had ever been in that position and just felt like I should play it as I found it.  I didn't want to bump it, get it up and down for birdie, and then feel like it was illegitimate.

We stop at the snack shack to get another round of beers and sure enough the owner is sitting outside at a cafe table.  He asks me if I just hit off the green.  I say, "Absolutely.  One helluva shot.  got it up and down for birdie and didn't even take a divot."

He was not impressed.  He asks me, "you can take relief can't you?"

I was like, "I dunno.  It's your club, there aren't any stakes or a local rule that I know of..."

I bet we're in for a new local rule.  For some reason it brought a smile to my face the whole walk to the 10th tee.  I guess it's not something I would normally do, but I felt it was worth the risk and it panned out, which is always nice.  Worse case scenario you take a huge divot just to move the ball 5 yards into the rough.  I must admit I was thinking of the Ninja when I pulled that low bounce 60 out of the bag.
Completely agree, still top the odd one every now and then lol. But yea I agree you really have to be swinging it well and know your path, I know when I'm not confident with it I'll hit the semi hot pull cause I'm trying to make sure I get down on it instead of just making a good swing. The telling thing is is that little pull is probably the most rare miss for me so when it shows up in my 3 wood I know it means I wasn't making a good move.

Confession I always forget to replace my spikes. Can't tell you how many times I've had to drill the old spikes out of my icons cause they are so caked in

I topped a 3 wood off the deck(swung to hard) Tuesday trying to lay up on a par 5, worst part was I had just hit it beautifully off the Tee on the hole before that right down the middle lol.
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#42 Pigems

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:08 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 May 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

Everyone's Welcome in Confessions :)

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#43 glk

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    send it in jerome

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:20 AM

Before Jester was besting Maverick there was this (don't know how this thread could last for over 30 posts without it)

Oh, forgot to add - thank you Canada.


Edited by glk, 13 May 2016 - 10:01 AM.


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#44 Fellaheen51

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:27 AM

View PostMichael C., on 12 May 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPeanutsDaddy, on 12 May 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

I made a decision to bounce on over here as well.  

PHYSICS, SCIENCE, BLADES!!!!!

Throw another down the hatch.   Let's get drunk tonight.

Yes! LOL.

Well, since being back out on the road for 6 weeks I've bought 2 golf clubs,
8 shafts, 11 golf shirts and a pair of golf shorts. I just can't STOP!! It's too
much fun.

I'm hoarding for retirement I think, haha.

Lol. I picked up a pair of the Ecco golf shoes last weekend at the PGA SS in Chicago. Actually, Downers Grove. It's all about the shoes. There were at least 7 or 8 pairs I wanted.

Still searching for the magic 3w. My Cleveland is okay but just not quite right. Maybe, I should get some lead tape and doctor it up. ;)

All I probably REALLY need is some bright red golf shorts, eh?

Ecco's are mighty fine golf shoes.  Love my Biom Hybrids.  Its been so wet and sloppy around here of late, been wearing the Merrill Gore-Tex hiking shoes on league night with regularity.  My spring mudders.  Feets stay dry and warm.  

Magic 3W = TM V-Steel.  Stoopid easy to launch.  And can be had on the cheap.  Love mine shafted with PL Platinum.  

Hoarding is dangerous and contagious.  The classic club thing has gotten way out of control.  Now liquidating inventory.  Conrad, hoarding increases exponentially when one does their own club tinkering.  And stay out of thrift stores.  Went into a Sallie's the other day and left with four golf shirts and a pair of shorts (not red).  Nice ones....Adidas, Antigua, Cutter & Buck.  Cheap.  

The thrill of the hunt...........
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#45 MrWolf

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 06:18 AM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 May 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 May 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

These threads are free form MJ. The head exploding thing is about physics based analyses of the role of bounce in wedge shots. Other than that, there's a lot of swing thought stuff, life stuff, food stuff, music stuff, relationships stuff, talking about rounds stuff, you know..

You would be a great and honored addition to the conversation. You are legend you know...

Thank goodness, Confessions 12 and perhaps a clean break from "Bounce Talk".  Did I not see bike talk early on ITT?  Thought that was verboten?  I posted bike talk in 11 and was reprimanded.  LOL.  

Mt. Jeff, still trying to figure out what Confessions is about as well.  Best not to over analyze it.  Just let one thoughts flow in a "Stream of Consciousness" sort of way.  Lots of insider lingo.  The regs use terminology that requires  a bit of deciphering and translation.  Perhaps there should be a Confessions glossary.

And there is an ongoing recruiting drive for the OGA.  All that is required is putting forth your choice of a membership number and a profess your disgust with all things USGA.  Big Stu will anoint and you're in...once you post your affiliation in your sig.

Well, aside from all being OGA members, it seems a few of us have a love of two wheels as well. I also had to fend off some mocking comments when I publicly admitted my love of cycling here, but it seems there is a growing underground confessions movement that is gaining traction. There are, amongst us, some secret members of the Velominati, if you will. Naturally I would encourage all cycling talk, perhaps as something of an antidote to the bounce talk!

Jeff, welcome aboard! Other have described what we do here better than I could so I won't try. Your posts always make me laugh though, so I look forward to some of that famous Canuck comedy on here.

Edited by WolfWRX, 13 May 2016 - 06:19 AM.

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#46 MrWolf

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 06:20 AM

View PostFellaheen51, on 13 May 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

View PostMichael C., on 12 May 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPeanutsDaddy, on 12 May 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

I made a decision to bounce on over here as well.  

PHYSICS, SCIENCE, BLADES!!!!!

Throw another down the hatch.   Let's get drunk tonight.

Yes! LOL.

Well, since being back out on the road for 6 weeks I've bought 2 golf clubs,
8 shafts, 11 golf shirts and a pair of golf shorts. I just can't STOP!! It's too
much fun.

I'm hoarding for retirement I think, haha.

Lol. I picked up a pair of the Ecco golf shoes last weekend at the PGA SS in Chicago. Actually, Downers Grove. It's all about the shoes. There were at least 7 or 8 pairs I wanted.

Still searching for the magic 3w. My Cleveland is okay but just not quite right. Maybe, I should get some lead tape and doctor it up. ;)

All I probably REALLY need is some bright red golf shorts, eh?

Ecco's are mighty fine golf shoes.  Love my Biom Hybrids.  Its been so wet and sloppy around here of late, been wearing the Merrill Gore-Tex hiking shoes on league night with regularity.  My spring mudders.  Feets stay dry and warm.  

Magic 3W = TM V-Steel.  Stoopid easy to launch.  And can be had on the cheap.  Love mine shafted with PL Platinum.  

Hoarding is dangerous and contagious.  The classic club thing has gotten way out of control.  Now liquidating inventory.  Conrad, hoarding increases exponentially when one does their own club tinkering.  And stay out of thrift stores.  Went into a Sallie's the other day and left with four golf shirts and a pair of shorts (not red).  Nice ones....Adidas, Antigua, Cutter & Buck.  Cheap.  

The thrill of the hunt...........

+1 on the Biom Hybrids. Love them. I am thinking of picking up a second pair in black. Very comfortable shoes though. I would prefer the heel to be a little shallower, but that's my only real complaint.
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16

#47 MrWolf

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 06:24 AM

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

View PostWolfWRX, on 12 May 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

View PostWolfWRX, on 12 May 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Wolf, let's keep each other informed on how we are riding? I have like 3 loops, depending on which one will give me a tail wind coming in. They vary from 15 - 22 mi. We could post our times to challenge ourselves..

Sounds good my friend. I need to get a few rides in first and get the lungs working again after the long winter lay off. I'm sure I could find some similar length loops though.

A good app for that is Strava. I've not used it much but have cycling friends that swear by it.

Still TOOL.

Is it me, or have they reduced the TOOL threshold? Seems way less than it used to be.

Excellent! I'm thinking since all loops are different, hills, road conditions, traffic, etc, not comparing average mph, but rather how much can each of us improve on a particular loop? I used to ride with a bunch of guys, and we actually seldom rode together but we would email each other on our progress - 'I shaved 5 min off my 30 mi loop today', etc.

Sounds good. That's what Strava is made for. You can also compare yourself to other people who have ridden the same loop (just to confirm how slow you really are), track your personal bests and all sorts of other things. It's essentially stats tracking for cycling.


Made me laugh. Last summer, the MS150 came through as I went out for my Sat a.m. ride, and I got got caught up in their flow as it followed my normal route. Three young studs tucked in behind me, and after 1 mi they found my pace stupid. So they passed me and I tried to tuck in behind them but even drafting I couldn't keep up. They were doing like 27 consistent, and easily..

Ha ha. Yeah, I've been there many times. I've learned to cope with it. I casually mention to a few of them that I've already done 100k and that I'm 'pacing myself' as they cruise past me without even trying. No-one believes it, but it makes me feel better.

Edited by WolfWRX, 13 May 2016 - 06:24 AM.

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17

#48 Matt J

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 08:08 AM

Ninja, you know you have my respect.  I appreciate anyone with a healthy disregard for authority.  The manufacturers and by default this site, promote the consumerism side of golf and in my mind that detracts from what it's really about.  To each their own.

Here's a photo of the pink shorts for you guys to get a laugh.... I wasn't kidding!  I might not have a 32 inch waist like Conrad, but I've been needing to rock a little more color, still no white belt :)  BTW, I broke my "no selfies" rule for you guys.  I expect a zillion likes by night fall.

Posted Image

Edited by Matt J, 13 May 2016 - 08:23 AM.


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#49 PeanutsDaddy

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 08:28 AM

Mtl Jeff and bathroom selfies.  We've started confessions 12 with a bang.

Welcome my Canadian compadre.

Handsome shorts brosef.
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#50 billh17

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 08:30 AM

View PostMichael C., on 12 May 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostPeanutsDaddy, on 12 May 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

I made a decision to bounce on over here as well.  

PHYSICS, SCIENCE, BLADES!!!!!

Throw another down the hatch.   Let's get drunk tonight.

Yes! LOL.

Well, since being back out on the road for 6 weeks I've bought 2 golf clubs,
8 shafts, 11 golf shirts and a pair of golf shorts. I just can't STOP!! It's too
much fun.

I'm hoarding for retirement I think, haha.

Lol. I picked up a pair of the Ecco golf shoes last weekend at the PGA SS in Chicago. Actually, Downers Grove. It's all about the shoes. There were at least 7 or 8 pairs I wanted.

Still searching for the magic 3w. My Cleveland is okay but just not quite right. Maybe, I should get some lead tape and doctor it up. ;)

All I probably REALLY need is some bright red golf shorts, eh?

I have tried everything from lead tape,up to and including metal screws attached to the shaft with ducktape!  I finally just admitted that
I am one of the weirdo's that can't hit a 3W....it is no longer in the bag...I had no confidence in the club....

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#51 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 10:04 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 May 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

Can someone tell me what these threads are about and if MtlJeff can be a part of them?

Welcome aboard and when you figure it out, please let us know!
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#52 scotee

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 10:07 AM

View PostDeNinny, on 13 May 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

Ninja, I was thinking of you today when one of the announcers at the Players said that most of the guys are using a low bounce 60 degree out of the bunkers.  I was also thinking about how nice it would be to play out of their sand.  I'll get back to your questionaire when I have a week of vacation to think about it ;)

Matt J, I really appreciate and HIGHLY respect this.  Also I want to mention that, I really (really) appreciate how you have interacted with me throughout all of our discussion on this topic.  I think you are one of the only ones that didn't agree with me that also didn't try to mock me.   Thanks for being a little more open minded than some.

And have a great vacation!!!

I confess. Guilty as charged. But please know that in my mind it is not mockery but the highest form of brospect.  I only interact with friends and real golf buds in this way. I resolve to cease and desist.  (until we revisit gear effect :) )
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22

#53 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:00 AM

View Postscotee, on 13 May 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

View PostDeNinny, on 13 May 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

Ninja, I was thinking of you today when one of the announcers at the Players said that most of the guys are using a low bounce 60 degree out of the bunkers.  I was also thinking about how nice it would be to play out of their sand.  I'll get back to your questionaire when I have a week of vacation to think about it ;)

Matt J, I really appreciate and HIGHLY respect this.  Also I want to mention that, I really (really) appreciate how you have interacted with me throughout all of our discussion on this topic.  I think you are one of the only ones that didn't agree with me that also didn't try to mock me.   Thanks for being a little more open minded than some.

And have a great vacation!!!

I confess. Guilty as charged. But please know that in my mind it is not mockery but the highest form of brospect.  I only interact with friends and real golf buds in this way. I resolve to cease and desist.  (until we revisit gear effect :) )

scoteef, no worries, Brotazoa.  Just remember that the more you make fun of what I'm saying, the worse it looks for you when you realize I've been right all along about anything I've stated in these threads.  (Nobody can use the laws of physics to refute me.)  Plus, I'm really trying to help you on all this technical stuff.  Having the wrong understanding of the true physics may not necessarily hurt your game but it doesn't ever really help.   So when you finally want to understand the true physics of high bounce and the (unequivocally false) "gear effect", and anything else that you don't agree with me from a technical perspective, feel free to bring it up and mock away in the process!  It will make the crow pie that you eat taste better.  You may end up even thanking me for it.
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23

#54 thug the bunny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:08 AM

View PostMatt J, on 12 May 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think the 3 wood is the hardest club to hit.  If I could only practice with one club, I'd hit 3 wood off the deck exclusively.  I feel like I can tell more about my swing hitting 3 wood than any other shot.  I've actually started hitting mine off the tee a lot more often too.  A regular Henrik Stenson minus the talent.  But, I can feel ya, Conrad.  I used to carry a PING 2 iron as a teenager.  As soon as I sprayed a drive, 2 iron off the tee the rest of the day.  I'd beat one of my buddies and he'd say I'd rather lose than admit failure with the driver.  I wish we played for money back then.

The thing is when I pull 3 wood off the tee it's a purely positional shot.  I don't care if it goes 195 or 245 as long as it shapes the way I want.  Usually a cut, it can be high and short, low and roll out, or on the screws and almost as long as driver.

Had a weird round today... doubled the first hole, bogeyed the fourth from 75 yards out, and then birdied 4 of the last 5 holes to come in even par on the front.  Totally exploded on the back, but it was hotter than hades and we were drinking pretty early so I lost energy and concentration.

I hit pulled a 5 wood about 15 yards right of the ninth green onto our chipping green.  The owner acts like this chipping green is super special, and it is nice, but it's not like a "real" green.  Anyways, I've never seen anything about a local rule to take relief and there are no stakes, so I hit a flop off of it.  First time I had ever been in that position and just felt like I should play it as I found it.  I didn't want to bump it, get it up and down for birdie, and then feel like it was illegitimate.

We stop at the snack shack to get another round of beers and sure enough the owner is sitting outside at a cafe table.  He asks me if I just hit off the green.  I say, "Absolutely.  One helluva shot.  got it up and down for birdie and didn't even take a divot."

He was not impressed.  He asks me, "you can take relief can't you?"

I was like, "I dunno.  It's your club, there aren't any stakes or a local rule that I know of..."

I bet we're in for a new local rule.  For some reason it brought a smile to my face the whole walk to the 10th tee.  I guess it's not something I would normally do, but I felt it was worth the risk and it panned out, which is always nice.  Worse case scenario you take a huge divot just to move the ball 5 yards into the rough.  I must admit I was thinking of the Ninja when I pulled that low bounce 60 out of the bag.

nice narrative Matt!
So there is really only here and now

24

#55 thug the bunny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:26 AM

View PostReasonability, on 12 May 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

MC -

Golf shoe confession -

You remember metal spikes of course.  Well I got this GREAT pair that felt like absolute heaven.  Man they were spiffy.  And - the spikes were ceramic - built right into the soles - never needed replacing - guaranteed for life!  If the Mrs. would let me - I'd have worn those puppies around the house!

Got a month in - and some dip-wad decided soft spike were in and hard spikes were out.  This touched off a series of events.

This stirred such rage in me that I wrote every executive of every company in the world a letter asking for better/smarter decision making. Letters went to governments and world leaders.   My crisis was everyone/s crisis.  My writings were essentially a plea begging for all dip-wads to be hung on the courthouse lawn forthwith.

Evidently one of my letters fell into the wrong hands or perhaps in my rage I may have sent one too many angry letters to one too many world leaders -

But now you know the REAL story behind how the Falkland Island War started.  (When I said "boats" I meant SHOES but you know how folks twist things and misinterpret stuff).

Anywho - enjoy your new boats - and putters.  And take it from a friend... if they outlaw your shoes or putters --- just roll with it man.  The world will be a better place if you do.

I found a rare pair of leather bottom shoes still being manufactured by a small company in N Jersey. They came with softspikes but the screw holes were exactly the same as the threads for the old champ steel spikes. So, I ordered some champs, put them in, and headed out on my course late one afternoon. When I play late in the day I have always noticed how the low angle sun really shows the craters that my AddiZero shoes leave on the greens. So, on this day looked at my footprints in the low angle sun and saw nothing. Perfectly flat. No footprints.

So I stupidly posted these observations on WRX, making it clear that I would never wear them anywhere but the parking lot and the course, and was beset by a hoard of angry WRXers.
Actually, there was only 3 or 4 who acted like I walked on their children's faces with my spikes, and one in particular who just would not let it go, engaging in name calling, etc. So I PMed him thinking I was being classy by not confronting him publically and told him to back the F off about something that doesn't directly affect him. And, of course he ran and told daddy and I landed in jail. Lesson learned.

So there is really only here and now

25

#56 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:41 AM

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Ninja, you know you have my respect.  I appreciate anyone with a healthy disregard for authority.  The manufacturers and by default this site, promote the consumerism side of golf and in my mind that detracts from what it's really about.  To each their own.

...

MJ to be clear, I only have disrespect for DUPLICITOUS authority.  Better yet, just duplicity in general.  Authority is irrelevant.

And when it comes to duplicity in golf club manufacturing "physics", note that this was never assumed by me.  I was never disrespectful just to be disrespectful to their authority.  I derived that disrespect as I derived the true and complete physics of all their design "features".  The real issue to me was that the more I explored it, the more I saw duplicity.  And the more I saw that, the more I disrespect I gained.  

I guess what I'm saying is that I've been down the same technical roads as you and all other golfers.  I bought into all the same things.  I thought all of it made perfect sense.  But when I really started applying BASIC first principles and deriving the same theories without bias, I  slowly but surely realized that a lot of what the manufacturers are doing is making the game HARDER for golfers...flexing cavity face, offset, wide soles, too much bounce, "gear effect", high MOI clubheads...these are just some examples of it.  And nearly all of it is viewed by ignorant golfers as "beneficial technology" and they eat it up here on WRX like ambrosia.  All because of a duplicitous industry.  This is why I'm so tenacious about explaining the true physics.  I've got the war scars from trying to believe the manufacturer's version, and it is time for it to end with me and my confessing friends!

Please keep an open mind about everything I've ever technically stated.  It won't be incorrect.  And it will help you.
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26

#57 mdgboxx

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 02:50 PM

View PostConrad1953, on 12 May 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Here we are at number 12. There is absolutely nothing left to say that
hasn't been said.....and our heads are exploding......ya, sure......... :D

Is there a better way to "first post" in a brand new thread??????????


An error occurred


You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day



This is no laughing matter!!!!



And on Friday 13th, to boot.   


Edited by mdgboxx, 13 May 2016 - 05:29 PM.

DRIVER: Ping G20, 9.5° w/169D-Tour, reg (Back up: Srixon Z-rw, 9.5°, stf)
3+W: Srixon Z-Steel, 12.5°, stock SV3005J, stf. (In rotation: 3W, 14.5°)
5W: Srixon Z-Steel, 18.5° stock SV3005J, stf
IRONS: Ping i20, 3-PW, stock CFS reg @ D2,
Red Dot
PUTTER: Ping Craz-E iWi, w/2x20gr weights, Lamkin Jumbo pistol grip
WEDGES: Ping Glide, 54° SS, 60° TS, stock Ping wedge shafts

BALL: Srixon XV  
CART: SunMountain V1, STEWARTGOLF Z1
BAG: SM H2N0, PING C-130
BACK UP: Ping S58, 3-Pw, stock CS-Lite, stf, @ D2. (Lofts jacked to S55 specs.)

27

#58 mdgboxx

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 02:56 PM

View PostWolfWRX, on 12 May 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 12 May 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Wolf, let's keep each other informed on how we are riding? I have like 3 loops, depending on which one will give me a tail wind coming in. They vary from 15 - 22 mi. We could post our times to challenge ourselves..

Sounds good my friend. I need to get a few rides in first and get the lungs working again after the long winter lay off. I'm sure I could find some similar length loops though.

A good app for that is Strava. I've not used it much but have cycling friends that swear by it.

Still TOOL.

Is it me, or have they reduced the TOOL threshold? Seems way less than it used to be.

Ninja and Pigs determined that 75 was the number. It seemed like a lot, to me too. So, of course I checked it myself. One of the last posts in Confessions #11 (mine) was: Yep! 75 it is.
DRIVER: Ping G20, 9.5° w/169D-Tour, reg (Back up: Srixon Z-rw, 9.5°, stf)
3+W: Srixon Z-Steel, 12.5°, stock SV3005J, stf. (In rotation: 3W, 14.5°)
5W: Srixon Z-Steel, 18.5° stock SV3005J, stf
IRONS: Ping i20, 3-PW, stock CFS reg @ D2,
Red Dot
PUTTER: Ping Craz-E iWi, w/2x20gr weights, Lamkin Jumbo pistol grip
WEDGES: Ping Glide, 54° SS, 60° TS, stock Ping wedge shafts

BALL: Srixon XV  
CART: SunMountain V1, STEWARTGOLF Z1
BAG: SM H2N0, PING C-130
BACK UP: Ping S58, 3-Pw, stock CS-Lite, stf, @ D2. (Lofts jacked to S55 specs.)

28

#59 MrWolf

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 03:39 PM

View PostMatt J, on 13 May 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Ninja, you know you have my respect.  I appreciate anyone with a healthy disregard for authority.  The manufacturers and by default this site, promote the consumerism side of golf and in my mind that detracts from what it's really about.  To each their own.

Here's a photo of the pink shorts for you guys to get a laugh.... I wasn't kidding!  I might not have a 32 inch waist like Conrad, but I've been needing to rock a little more color, still no white belt :)  BTW, I broke my "no selfies" rule for you guys.  I expect a zillion likes by night fall.

Posted Image

Reminds me of the Smiths Song 'Handsome Devil'.

I think those shorts are less 'pink' and more of a 'Deep Sunset' colour in the same way that Nike stuff is not luminous yellow, it's Volt.

Edited by WolfWRX, 13 May 2016 - 03:39 PM.

///OGA Member #13 - 'The Man from Blighty'///

29

#60 DeNinny

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 03:56 PM

^ LOL Wolf re: the Smiths.  I was thinking more like 'Meat is Murder' (I keed, MJ).

Best the Smiths song ever...

https://youtu.be/hnpILIIo9ek

...It doesn't get old.

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Miura Black Wedges 53* and 60*, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
GripMaster Club Maker's Stitchback Grips
34" Piretti Bosa, Iomic Absolute X

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