[TigerStrong]

Does anybody else care that a shaft company can put a stiff flex on a shaft and it’s really a regular flex. There is no quality control or industry standards. Who is responsible for making sure a shaft is what’s it’s suppose to be? Most tour players go through a ton of shafts before they find the right one. I have a major problem with walking into a store going through a fitting and then handed a club that might be my specs because the shaft says stiff but it could be x-stiff or it could be senior flex. This has been driving me nuts and was wondering if anybody else feels similar.

[wildwilly911]

if your getting fitted i would sure hope they check any shaft they install before selling it to the customer. like you said there is no standard

[Big Ben]

Shaft guys will give you 1 million excuses for this and it's all crapola. The industry will never adopt a standard because this would hold there foot to the fire regarding actual quality control and that's not gonna happen anytime soon. I'm sure some shaft rep will chime in and offer us a few of those excuses at some point in this thread. I get a kick out of it when they claim they hold very tight tolerances to there method or "range" which is wide and vast making the comment quite laughable. Don't get me started...

[kamtile]

Its not just shafts ,lofts ,lies and swingweights are all over the place on virtually all the OEMs irons .How long are we going to accept this ?We live in a time when intricate machinery with hundreds of parts are within very tight tolerances ,but these huge billion dollar OEMs cant (wont) get clubs even close to right and clubs as I recall have very few moving parts .So ,OEMs ,listenup ,we all know you dont MAKE anything ,you just glue a few peices that some tiawanese company makes together to earn your money ,HOW ABOUT DOING IT RIGHT?????We will gladly pay you handsomely for your product ,just dont make us feel like idiots every time we open our wallets .Rant over.

[thewitt]

There are a couple of things to keep in mind when talking about shaft flexes.

The first is the playing flex of a shaft has virtually nothing to do with what you measure on the butt end of the shaft - independent of shaft model.

You can take two different shafts and measure butt frequency, and have the R flex stiffer in the butt than the S flex - assuming two different models and associated bend profiles.

The second is really more about swing types and the shaft's impact on feel.

If you have a relatively early release, and shaft with a soft butt, stiff tip and low torque can feel as stiff as a board.

If you have a late release, that same shaft can feel whippy.

This with identical swing speeds and tempo...

-t

[uncle rico]

I definitely feel your pain with the shafts. As for the irons I have them checked once or twice a year to ensure the loft and lie are correct. They do come from the OEM wrong a lot of the time. However I can screw one up on the course pretty quick depending on the kind of trouble I can get in. With that said the loft and lie are a simple adjustment to fix. As for the shaft flex you are right, no excuses for the OEM's.

[RighttoLeft]

Are we talking lack of standards across the industry, or lack of precision in meeting specs?
There is no excuse for two identical shafts marked 'Stiff' to play as an R in one and X in the other. However, every company has a different idea of standard specs and what a 'stiff' should be, so a stiff shaft from one company may play as another's R, and another's SX.
Lofts, lies, and lengths are the same.

Now if you are talking lack of precision in specs, I wholeheartedly agree. I am amazed when looking at a new set of irons and no two grips are aligned the same.

Titleist made the 690MB off a 60° lie on the 5 iron. The 690.MB bumbed the 5 iron's lie up to 62°. According to Titleist, this was because they got more requests for the 2 up lie than the standard. So, bottom line, they changed the spec as they were probably spending a ton doing custom specs. If you want better QC, send clubs that aren't right back if they don't meet the OEMs tolerance. If it's a bad set or club here and there, then it's a non-issue. If any OEM is churning out loose clubs, they will spend more in making them right than they will enforcing QC standards.

[kamtile]

RighttoLeft, on Dec 28 2007, 08:45 PM, said:

Are we talking lack of standards across the industry, or lack of precision in meeting specs?
There is no excuse for two identical shafts marked 'Stiff' to play as an R in one and X in the other. However, every company has a different idea of standard specs and what a 'stiff' should be, so a stiff shaft from one company may play as another's R, and another's SX.
Lofts, lies, and lengths are the same.

Now if you are talking lack of precision in specs, I wholeheartedly agree. I am amazed when looking at a new set of irons and no two grips are aligned the same.

Titleist made the 690MB off a 60° lie on the 5 iron. The 690.MB bumbed the 5 iron's lie up to 62°. According to Titleist, this was because they got more requests for the 2 up lie than the standard. So, bottom line, they changed the spec as they were probably spending a ton doing custom specs. If you want better QC, send clubs that aren't right back if they don't meet the OEMs tolerance. If it's a bad set or club here and there, then it's a non-issue. If any OEM is churning out loose clubs, they will spend more in making them right than they will enforcing QC standards.

Thats a good place to start ,I will send back any club or clubs that are not within resonable specs from now on .I think your right ,as soon as they feel its cheaper to build them right the first time thats when and only when they will start doing it right.

[3step]

Welcome to the big bad golf industry.

The golf business is really a very tiny business compared to selling food, or socks or cars.
I am not making excuses for them- they put out a club expecting the consumer to buy it and have it magically work- eventhough the stores or shops or pros have no idea how to sell/fit/deliver it. They just don't have the volume to deliver to the consumer the product with adequate information, proper fitting and after sale support.

This is why all of these forums exist- all of us crazy golfers wandering around in the dark searching for information that should already be provided by the OEMs.

After a period of anger, I have learned that it is up to me to be my own equipment advocate- I deserve more from the OEMs, but I now look at them as just head producers.


HARDIN

[tina]

this is going to be good..

[thewitt]

kamtile, on Dec 28 2007, 11:55 PM, said:

Thats a good place to start ,I will send back any club or clubs that are not within resonable specs from now on .I think your right ,as soon as they feel its cheaper to build them right the first time thats when and only when they will start doing it right.

Good luck with that.

Having spent a number of years retailing OEM clubs, you will not get them to commit to any specs.

The club stamped 10 on the bottom can easily be a 12 BY DESIGN, not by chance.

-t