[nickpoz]

> http://www.newsobser...ory/823927.html


FAIRHAVEN, Mass. - Two residents of Vass, North Carolina, were charged last week by North Carolina Secretary of State Trademark investigators following an investigation that state officials believe has uncovered a major product counterfeiting operation headquartered in Moore County. Acushnet Company, which is comprised of the Titleist, FootJoy and Cobra golf equipment brands, played an integral part in the arrests by working with the North Carolina authorities.
"Acushnet vigorously protects our brands and our Company's intellectual property" said Lisa Rogan, Acushnet Company trademark manager. "We conduct daily monitoring of eBay and other auction sites, which often leads to criminal investigations. We fully support the North Carolina Secretary of State's Office in this investigation." In this case, Acushnet observed counterfeit golf products in the market and conducted an internal investigation prior to presenting the matter to the N.C. Secretary of State's Office.

A two-month investigation by state and federal officers resulted in allegations that Donald G. Fondrie and Warren E. Fondrie operated an Internet-based site that sold fake brand-name golfing gear, with the counterfeit brand name products being imported from Asia, and then being sold both domestically and internationally on a "store site" on eBay, the large on-line auction company. Postal authorities monitored shipping traffic connected to the case for some time prior to the search.

Thousands of fake golf products were seized, including counterfeit Titleist, Cobra and Scotty Cameron products. In addition, other alleged counterfeit products were seized, including fake Golf Pride® golf grips and goods bearing the trademarks of Cleveland Golf, Nike, PING, Callaway Golf and TaylorMade Golf.

Both men were charged with two felony counts of possessing counterfeit trademarked goods with intent to sell the counterfeit goods. They were also charged with resisting a public officer as was a third person, Pei-I Chou, a Taiwanese national who was present at the time of the search and seizure operation conducted by Secretary of State investigators and U.S. Postal Service inspectors.

Titleist, FootJoy and Cobra comprise the major golf brands of the Acushnet Company, an operating company of Fortune Brands, Inc. (NYSE - FO). Titleist, Cobra and FootJoy are trademarks owned by Acushnet Company. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners

[italian71]

Anyone know their Ebay ID?

[richiewrt]

I am embarassed that this came out of my home state. Hopefully they can track down all the stuff that was sold on ebay and can help prevent it from recirculating back out onto ebay.

[wshoulders]

Might just be a coincidence but I bought a set of grips from ebay user shirts4less1 which shipped out of Vass, NC and the user is suddenly no longer registered.....boy am I glad I only got grips....(and after a quick review mine are fake)

[dolleris]

For those of You that haven't seen it :
Taylormade website about counterfeit

[Solutions Etcetera]

dolleris, on Dec 13 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

For those of You that haven't seen it :
Taylormade website about counterfeit

Yeah, but it is kinda sad that it has not been updated in over 6 months.

[Gozz]

italian71, on Dec 13 2007, 06:23 AM, said:

Anyone know their Ebay ID?

golfdesigns77 or Golfdesigns77

Source: http://www.thepilot....terfeiting.html

[Gozz]

His ebay ID

http://feedback.ebay...tab=AllFeedback

It looks like they mainly dealt with hat clips/markers and golf pride grips. There are also a few TM weights and head covers.

[wshoulders]

one of their auctions for the new decade grips looks excatly like the one I got mine off of but under the name I mentioned earlier

[ezra76]

Good to see Titleist is actively persuing the counterfeitters and sellers of the counterfeit items. Personally I don't think most of the club companies really care all that much about fakes on Ebay. I bought a fake TM R7425 last year and they were appreciative and helpful but I don't think they did much to persue the guy. When you think about it why should they care a whole lot. It's actually helping to drive more consumers off Ebay and to pay full retail since they are afraid of the fakes. It's pretty obvious to me and probably most of you other "club ho's" what's real and fake on there now. If we can figure it out I'm sure they should have no problem.

[mrman]

I just purchased a scotty studio newport 2.0 off of ebay only to receive it and discover that it was a counterfeit. The seller received them from a private source and I believe was unaware of them being fakes....Waste of 180$ for a 10$ club. beware!

[Baycal92510]

This is a perfect opportunity for us to start using our golf wrx site wanted section instead of dealing with those shady cats

[mjc694]

i will never buy on ebay again! amen!

[MacMia]

I used to be a pretty faithful ebay shopper- found it a great place to get tour issue RAC Fe2o3 clubs. Then, I got burned by someone on some "tour issue prototypes" which were a retail model, welded in, sandblasted and refinished. I got my money back, but it was not easy. It totally destroyed my confidence in the site, and if/when I sell something on there, I try to bend over backwards to prove that my stuff is not fake...

I think that the main reason people still keep going to the bay rather than the WRX classifieds is Supply- there is simply more stuff to buy on ebay. .. Hopefully we can change that trend.

[troyer58]

Well, at least Titleist cared enough to go after someone. Probably won't deter the bigger fish, but will make someone think twice.


t

[A-Train]

What about the counterfeit mfr.? They should get the chair IMHO as they're hosing the OEM and the consumer.

[$maker]

Fake Grips, that's a new one.
I wonder if those tees I just bought are fake too??

As for the manufacturers in China... Obviously all the big golf co's know that counterfeiting is going to happen once they move their operations to China. Maybe we all should stop buying from eBay and start paying street prices for our stuff. I'm all for Intl trade and it's benefits but I'd pay more for higher quality stuff made in the USA or Japan if it was available and if it was really higher quality.

Anyway, thanks to this site for the BST which I can generally assume most of us are here to share and help others enjoy our common passion... and not screw our fellow man for a buck.

[4rheel]

I have a friend that thinks his putter recently purchased from ebay is fake. How does he go about making a claim with ebay?

[skinkman]

so are the Pro V1s fake balls? since they stole the patent from Bridgestone and others?

[Grum]

Dumb. a**.

[Bomb and Gouge]

So that's why my brand new SuperQuad TP that I got on Ebay for $150 only goes 225 yards!

:partytime2:

[MatthewT]

Damn ive bought some of the same items you people have mentioned above in the last year, golf pride grips, Taylormade r7 425, rac Fe2O3 (which I bought for like $30 + shipping.....), im starting to think now. Here are the id of the people i bought things off

r7 426 - globalgolfexchange - im pretty confident they are legit
GP MCC - golf_making
Fe2O3 - thegolfhabit

Anybody recogonize these id's?

[Spectrums]

I'm fairly sure globalgolfexchange is legit... not sure on the others.

[MatthewT]

Yeah im not to worried about globalgolf, almost 100% positive they are legit

[doplussee]

MatthewT, on Mar 14 2008, 08:21 PM, said:

Damn ive bought some of the same items you people have mentioned above in the last year, golf pride grips, Taylormade r7 425, rac Fe2O3 (which I bought for like $30 + shipping.....), im starting to think now. Here are the id of the people i bought things off

r7 426 - globalgolfexchange - im pretty confident they are legit
GP MCC - golf_making
Fe2O3 - thegolfhabit

Anybody recogonize these id's?

TheGolfHabit is 100% legit.

[mtex22]

I have been eyeing these but I am skeptical since they arent even in stores yet. I have e-mailed the seller and he seems very helpful and responsive. What do you guys think? or has anyone dealt with this seller?
http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...A:IT&ih=006

[MatthewT]

Nice, are you TheGolfHabit??????????? lol

[sandy]

I've never understood the big deal with counterfeit equipment. The people that are mostly burned are the ones that buy online looking for a good deal. A good deal being defined as prices that would only be legitimate if the equipment was stolen or counterfeit. The best imitation I ever saw was a FT-i imitation but since a magnet stuck to the composite area and it sounded real goofy it became obvious it was a steel fake. All the rest are pretty sad attempts. In short if it doesn't come from a reputable dealer or directly from the factory I don't want it. If you can't touch you shouldn't buy it. Obviously the big companies care because it impacts their reputations. Not sure it impacts their sales that much as the people looking for the "good" prices aren't going to pay the retail prices anyway.

[mtex22]

mtex22, on Mar 14 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

I have been eyeing these but I am skeptical since they arent even in stores yet. I have e-mailed the seller and he seems very helpful and responsive. What do you guys think? or has anyone dealt with this seller?
http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...A:IT&ih=006

my guess they should be real because they are not even available yet to counterfeit. Is that correct to assume?

[nickpoz]

mtex22, on Mar 15 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

mtex22, on Mar 14 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

I have been eyeing these but I am skeptical since they arent even in stores yet. I have e-mailed the seller and he seems very helpful and responsive. What do you guys think? or has anyone dealt with this seller?
http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...A:IT&ih=006

my guess they should be real because they are not even available yet to counterfeit. Is that correct to assume?

You would be suprised. Often the models that are copied are stolen from the assembly line and copied from there. Sometimes before the consumers see the real thing. They had a really good article about the whole thing in Golf World a couple issues ago

[MoGolf]

Another source of the fakes is the tool makers in China. Independent tool makers make die cast/forgeing tools for all types of products for oem's. Then "someone" at the tool maker rips off the blueprints for the product being tooled up. A manufacturing plant then cranks out fakes off of original prints. However, many shortcuts deem them counterfeits and MUCH cheaper than the originals.
One of my jobs before I retired last year was identifying fakes at automotive trade shows. I found several at a show in Las Vegas that "looked" just like our products, but were far inferior due to cheaper internal components.
We found through lots of detective work that our design was ripped off at the tool maker. Our company was having die cast tooling made in China, then shipped back here for the actual die casting.
I'm sure that this could also be the sources for golf clubs as well.

[ejmac]

I am truly glad to hear that progress is starting to be made in the area of counterfeits it make me angry to see all the counterfeit Studio Styles on ebay and as far as the other equipment if I am not familiar with the product I don't buy no matter how tempting the price may be. Thanks Nick for the post I'll sleep better knowing that these scumbags are behind bars and hoping they drop the soap in the shower often.

[DRGJR72]

I actually just did a paper on globalization and counter fitting of golf clubs in china. The value of a copper master is about 10,000 dollars to a worker at a club foundry. Compare this to the fact that they make about 100 dollars per week, working 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Huge incentive for people to steal these plates.

The mentality of the OEM....not a bad thing just how it is....

So if there is a risk involved with counterfeiting of golf clubs, why would you do business over there? "If we didn't, your $400 driver would cost $1,000," says Barney Adams. "Making a golf club is still very labor intensive. We understand the risks of doing business over there. We do the best we can to minimize them, and we move on."

I am glad to see some people attack this problem. It is tough though. The cost benefit is apparent for the OEM, but if they don't attack the problem now it could get out of control. I sure hope they continue to rid the industry of counterfeits.

Here is an article on the subject:

http://www.time.com/...icle/...-464468,00.html

DG

[larrybud]

MacMia, on Mar 14 2008, 08:57 AM, said:

I used to be a pretty faithful ebay shopper- found it a great place to get tour issue RAC Fe2o3 clubs. Then, I got burned by someone on some "tour issue prototypes" which were a retail model, welded in, sandblasted and refinished. I got my money back, but it was not easy. It totally destroyed my confidence in the site, and if/when I sell something on there, I try to bend over backwards to prove that my stuff is not fake...

I think that the main reason people still keep going to the bay rather than the WRX classifieds is Supply- there is simply more stuff to buy on ebay. .. Hopefully we can change that trend.

EBay is just the mechanism to buy things. Fakes can appear ANYWHERE.

[jkumpire]

DRGJR72, on Mar 16 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

I actually just did a paper on globalization and counter fitting of golf clubs in china. The value of a copper master is about 10,000 dollars to a worker at a club foundry. Compare this to the fact that they make about 100 dollars per week, working 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Huge incentive for people to steal these plates.

The mentality of the OEM....not a bad thing just how it is....

So if there is a risk involved with counterfeiting of golf clubs, why would you do business over there? "If we didn't, your $400 driver would cost $1,000," says Barney Adams. "Making a golf club is still very labor intensive. We understand the risks of doing business over there. We do the best we can to minimize them, and we move on."

I am glad to see some people attack this problem. It is tough though. The cost benefit is apparent for the OEM, but if they don't attack the problem now it could get out of control. I sure hope they continue to rid the industry of counterfeits.

Here is an article on the subject:

http://www.time.com/...icle/...-464468,00.html

DG

And I say to Barney Adams, Nuts! There is no way the drivers would cost $1000. IMO he's blowing smoke to keep his big margins up. It's another classic excuse from some big business exec to keep the gravy train a goin'.

This was the problem all along with granting the Communists in Peking MFN status years ago. We are enabling a bunch of bums to stay in power on the backs of masses of poor people. And these poor people, who see little social mobility in their future decide that crime is a reasonable risk, esp., when the central governement really doesn't care all that much about ripping off more silly Western business types while they build up the military, spending 20% more on defense each year.

Meanwhile, a lot of people in other countries , not just the US, see their standard of living go down too. In places like the US, we can manage a lot of the damage. other places can't.

And, yes you can call me a hypocrite, since I buys clubs made in China, or at least club components made in China. But I'll be a monkey's uncle before I buy what Barney Adams and the like of them are trying to sell us. One of these days, the US economy will be free enough so that somebody will cut the legs out from these people, or maybe the masses in China will find a way to overthrow their slave masters and make a better life for themselves.

Sorry about the rant, now back to golf.