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A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....


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#1 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:25 PM

What do you think would happen? Would the scratch player stand a chance? What if it's the scratch player's home course and Mickelson has played it only one time previously?

Does the scratch player have any hope? If not, how many shots a side should he get from Mickelson to make it fair?

Let's say the course is rated 76 from the tees Phil is playing and 72 from the tees the scratch player is playing.

Have at it!!

(cool)


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#2 YoungJedi

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:27 PM

I think it would be close. But Mickelson would still come out on top. It's insane how good these guys are.....

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#3 RICKYBOBBY

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:30 PM

Here we go....
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#4 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:31 PM

View PostRICKYBOBBY, on 04 January 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

Here we go....

Hehehehe.....

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#5 c5bubblechaser

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:31 PM

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

CB

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#6 YoungJedi

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:34 PM

View Postc5bubblechaser, on 04 January 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

Straight up...

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#7 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:38 PM

View Postc5bubblechaser, on 04 January 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

If Phil did keep a USGA index, it would likely be in the +5 to +7 range most months. That, however, would convert to a course handicap (at a difficult, high-slope golf course) of somewhere between +6 and +10 depending on just how high the slope was.

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#8 Pure745

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:39 PM

Can I guess?? ;)
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#9 2bGood

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:39 PM

Assuming it was a solid tournament scratch - like a former D1 player who works for a living and they are playing at 6500 on their home course vs Phil playing at 7200, I think the scratch guy takes it 60% of the time.

If it was your typical club scratch that has played at a high level - phil wins 90%

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#10 Papa Johick

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:39 PM

View PostObee, on 04 January 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

What do you think would happen? Would the scratch player stand a chance? What if it's the scratch player's home course and Mickelson has played it only one time previously?

Does the scratch player have any hope? If not, how many shots a side should he get from Mickelson to make it fair?

Let's say the course is rated 76 from the tees Phil is playing and 72 from the tees the scratch player is playing.

Have at it!!

(cool)

Obee usually when one of these posts come up from you it's due to a true event..... Did you just so happen to play Phil and play at tees set closer than him and win??


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#11 widow-maker

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:41 PM

There's different kinds of scratch players.  Some could play with him.  Others would be in way over their heads.

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#12 Papa Johick

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

My ruling is it was you haha and you won by a stroke after Phil giving you 2 a side?
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#13 Guia

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

If Phil played a par 72 course that the 0 handicap member played, Phil would be a +6 or +7.   A number of years Ray Floyd was handicapped by someone (Golf Digest I believe) as a +7 on an average course.  That of course would be both playing from the same tee, if there were 700 yards distance I would still think Phil would win 3 out of 4 times.

Edited by Guia, 04 January 2016 - 09:44 PM.


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#14 DavePelz4

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

View PostObee, on 04 January 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

View Postc5bubblechaser, on 04 January 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

If Phil did keep a USGA index, it would likely be in the +5 to +7 range most months. That, however, would convert to a course handicap (at a difficult, high-slope golf course) of somewhere between +6 and +10 depending on just how high the slope was.
Phil actually has a handicap at Whisper Rock. It's required to play in the club championship. On the 1/1/2016 revision he is a +5.6.

Edited by DavePelz4, 04 January 2016 - 09:46 PM.


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#15 CHEFMIZ

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:45 PM

No shot in hell...  Phil is a +5.9.  700 yards, 72 rating versus 76 rating still isn't enough to make it even.   Give the scratch golfer 3 a side and it MAY be a horse race.

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#16 DavePelz4

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:45 PM

Obee...I'm ready for another great story!

Posted Image

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#17 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:46 PM

View PostPapa Johick, on 04 January 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 04 January 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

What do you think would happen? Would the scratch player stand a chance? What if it's the scratch player's home course and Mickelson has played it only one time previously?

Does the scratch player have any hope? If not, how many shots a side should he get from Mickelson to make it fair?

Let's say the course is rated 76 from the tees Phil is playing and 72 from the tees the scratch player is playing.

Have at it!!

(cool)

Obee usually when one of these posts come up from you it's due to a true event..... Did you just so happen to play Phil and play at tees set closer than him and win??

I would never do anything like that!!!

View PostDavePelz4, on 04 January 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Obee...I'm ready for another great story!

Posted Image

Oh my god, I love that GIF. LOL

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#18 Hawkeye77

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:49 PM

Does the scratch player have an affinity for hybrids or fairway woods over long irons?

Edited by Hawkeye77, 04 January 2016 - 09:50 PM.


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#19 lumberman2462

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:51 PM

Back in the 90s the Girls Junior Amateur was held at my home course.

During a pre-tournament practice round a young girl scorched our track with a 63.  There was a little dispute on the yardage played but generally agreed to be 6100-6200 yards whereas our tips were around 7100.

We had a good local player who'd won the Club Championsip and contended in State level events.....and a Class A @&?Hat.  But he could play.  

He was shooting off his mouth in the bar and money and bets were taken.  @$:Hat was going to beat this girls score.  

So off we go to the first tee.  

He quit on 15 and was  either 3 or 4 under (there was a slight rules dispute)

Michelson destroys the scratch Player...you still have to make the putts and hit the irons close.  

I won $50.00 that day....and it was a fun day to watch and drink.  

I just remembered that the girl ended up winning that week but I can't remember her name.

Edited by lumberman2462, 04 January 2016 - 09:59 PM.

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#20 mallrat

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:52 PM

I would guess a lot would depend on course conditions. You give them a wide open course, average speed greens and rough not being a factor the scratch player could have a shot. Especially if given strokes.

Now you put them on a US Open course with US Open conditions, I say no shot. I would also think it would depend on the type of scratch player. Someone who practices a lot and plays a decent bit but no tournament experience vs. someone who has played at a high level and doesn't get rattled.

Edited by mallrat, 04 January 2016 - 09:55 PM.


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#21 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:53 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 04 January 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

Does the scratch player have an affinity for hybrids or fairway woods over long irons?

Why I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....

:D

Edited by Obee, 04 January 2016 - 09:55 PM.


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#22 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:59 PM

View Postlumberman2462, on 04 January 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Back in the 90s the Girls Junior Amateur was held at my home course.

During a pre-tournament practice round a young girl scorched our track with a 63.  There was a little dispute on the yardage played but generally agreed to be 6100-6200 yards whereas our tips were around 7100.

We had a good local player who'd won the Club Championsip and contended in State level events.....and a Class A @&?Hat.  But he could play.  

He was shooting off his mouth in the bar and money and bets were taken.  @$:Hat was going to beat this girls score.  

So off we go to the first tee.  

He quit on 15 and was  either 3 or 4 under (there was a slight rules dispute)

Michelson destroys the scratch Player...you still have to make the putts and hit the irons close.  

I won $50.00 that day....and it was a fun day to watch and drink.

That is a GREAT story. It just goes to show you: Going low (below 65?) is difficult, regardless of the length of a course. Unless you're a legit pro, getting to 7 or 8 under is just not something most amateur can do and feel comfortable.

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#23 Obee

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:01 PM

View Postmallrat, on 04 January 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

I would guess a lot would depend on course conditions. You give them a wide open course, average speed greens and rough not being a factor the scratch player could have a shot. Especially if given strokes.

Now you put them on a US Open course with US Open conditions, I say no shot. I would also think it would depend on the type of scratch player. Someone who practices a lot and plays a decent bit but no tournament experience vs. someone who has played at a high level and doesn't get rattled.

Let's say the course was playing "firm and fast," and the greens were perfect tour speed and firmness. 12ish and firm, but able to accept a well-struck shot. Hypothetically.

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#24 farmer

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:01 PM

View Postlumberman2462, on 04 January 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Back in the 90s the Girls Junior Amateur was held at my home course.

During a pre-tournament practice round a young girl scorched our track with a 63.  There was a little dispute on the yardage played but generally agreed to be 6100-6200 yards whereas our tips were around 7100.

We had a good local player who'd won the Club Championsip and contended in State level events.....and a Class A @&?Hat.  But he could play.  

He was shooting off his mouth in the bar and money and bets were taken.  @$:Hat was going to beat this girls score.  

So off we go to the first tee.  

He quit on 15 and was  either 3 or 4 under (there was a slight rules dispute)

Michelson destroys the scratch Player...you still have to make the putts and hit the irons close.  

I won $50.00 that day....and it was a fun day to watch and drink.  

I just remembered that the girl ended up winning that week but I can't remember her name.
This.  Phil owns the scratch.

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#25 Titleist 670

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:13 PM

I'm going to say the scratch player shot a 73, Phil shot 67.


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#26 MtlJeff

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:22 PM

An average scratch against Mickelson would have no chance over the long haul, even with a 700 yard advantage.

Mickelson would be 7-8 shots better handicap wise, and the ratings difference is 4. Just technically speaking.

I'd guess Phil wins something like 90/100 against an average scratch. Maybe more
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#27 Titleist 670

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:23 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 January 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

An average scratch against Mickelson would have no chance over the long haul, even with a 700 yard advantage.

Mickelson would be 7-8 shots better handicap wise, and the ratings difference is 4. Just technically speaking.

I'd guess Phil wins something like 90/100 against an average scratch. Maybe more

What if the scratch is playing GI's instead of blades?

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#28 Ezgolfer

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:23 PM

Those guys are good.
I played Pelican Hills last week .The caddy told me Bubba showed up in town and shot 65 playing a casual round with Mark Wahlberg. Also there is story about bubba dropping 81 from the back tees with just a 4 hybrid.
I say on an average day Phil is up by 4 strokes at least.

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#29 MtlJeff

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:24 PM

View PostTitleist 670, on 04 January 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 January 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

An average scratch against Mickelson would have no chance over the long haul, even with a 700 yard advantage.

Mickelson would be 7-8 shots better handicap wise, and the ratings difference is 4. Just technically speaking.

I'd guess Phil wins something like 90/100 against an average scratch. Maybe more

What if the scratch is playing GI's instead of blades?

90/100. Maybe more
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#30 DavePelz4

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:27 PM

View PostTitleist 670, on 04 January 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 January 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

An average scratch against Mickelson would have no chance over the long haul, even with a 700 yard advantage.

Mickelson would be 7-8 shots better handicap wise, and the ratings difference is 4. Just technically speaking.

I'd guess Phil wins something like 90/100 against an average scratch. Maybe more

What if the scratch is playing GI's instead of blades?
This scratch is known to smartly play a hybrid...or 3.


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