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Average Course Rating?


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#1 axer13

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:45 AM

This may be random but I was wondering what is the course rating of a course that is what you'd consider average difficulty? I typically play courses that are like 73.5 with 125-130 slope and just wondering how difficult a course that is to say a course of average difficulty. I know how the rating works like higher the rating the harder the course but haven't seen what an average course would be rated. So I guess on a scale of 1-10 with 5 being average what would a course of 73.5 and 130 slope be ranked?


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#2 OTTgolf

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:08 AM

Not sure what the avg. is, but my guess would be 1 or 2 over par for the course from the tips and between 125-130

Edit: After google search

A: A When I introduced the system in 1982, the theoretical average Slope Rating was 113 because USGA data showed that scores go up on average 1.13 strokes per handicap stroke. The actual average Slope Rating is 120. The majority of courses in coastal states have Slopes of 121 and higher. Many Slopes lower than 118 are mid-American public courses. The lowest is 55 (short par-3 course), and the highest is 155.

By Dean Knuth, Golf Digest Professional Advisor. Former senior director of the USGA handicap department, Knuth invented today's USGA Course Rating and Slope system.

Edited by Josh Powell, 10 September 2015 - 06:11 AM.


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#3 larrybud

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:53 AM

View Postaxer13, on 10 September 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

This may be random but I was wondering what is the course rating of a course that is what you'd consider average difficulty? I typically play courses that are like 73.5 with 125-130 slope and just wondering how difficult a course that is to say a course of average difficulty. I know how the rating works like higher the rating the harder the course but haven't seen what an average course would be rated. So I guess on a scale of 1-10 with 5 being average what would a course of 73.5 and 130 slope be ranked?

You have to understand that a "course" isn't rated, but a course from a specific set of tees is rated.

I have a national database of courses around here somewhere... Let me find it and figure out what the average is, but if we average ALL men's tees, 73.5 is going to be higher, and I suspect the average will be about 71.75 or so, right around the average par of the courses.

While the USGA handicapping manual says 113 is the average slope, they're way off base.  Average is higher than that.

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#4 nowitski41

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:23 AM

I've played 37 courses this season averaging out to 71.85/132.8. Easiest was 69.2/123 and hardest was 73.2/140.

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#5 marmooskapaul

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:38 AM

Myscorecard.com, which I'm a member of says....

10 hdc. average
70.1
123
83.5 score average

5 hdc. average
70.7
124
79.1 score average

25 hdc. average
69.0
119
99.9

I'm assuming that is from their member base...which is in the 1000's or 10,000's

Paul

I might add...the courses I play the most are at or below the ratings for the 25 hdc. average. Which means for me 9.8 hdc. I have to shoot basically 80 or below to gain anything on my hdc....it all evens out..between hard/easier ratings...I think.

Edited by marmooskapaul, 10 September 2015 - 08:45 AM.


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#6 Ruddy

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 01:26 PM

Statistically, an average, or mean, is not a good representative of,  in this case, the range of course/tee slopes and ratings. That is because averages are greatly affected by extremes.

Two more helpful measurements are the median, which is the slope/rating directly in the middle of the population of courses, so that exactly half of all courses are easiesr and half are harder;
And the mode, which is the slope/rating which occurs most often.
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#7 hayzooos

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 03:28 PM

View Postmarmooskapaul, on 10 September 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Myscorecard.com, which I'm a member of says....

10 hdc. average
70.1
123
83.5 score average

5 hdc. average
70.7
124
79.1 score average

25 hdc. average
69.0
119
99.9

I'm assuming that is from their member base...which is in the 1000's or 10,000's

Paul

I might add...the courses I play the most are at or below the ratings for the 25 hdc. average. Which means for me 9.8 hdc. I have to shoot basically 80 or below to gain anything on my hdc....it all evens out..between hard/easier ratings...I think.

I use the same site and was going to go there because I knew they listed some of this stuff there. I believe you're correct when they compile all that stuff from their own user base, so it should be fairly accurate even considering most golfers don't keep a handicap and those that do, probably do it through GHIN or their club which might use the same.

Back to the OPs question...at 73.5/130, I'd put that around a 6-7 in terms of difficulty, but it also depends on what tees you're playing from. If that's the slope/rating from the normal men's tees, I'd say it's a pretty tough course and I'd probably bump it up to around an 8, as you'd be hovering around the 74.5-75.0/136-140 mark from the tip or at least the next set of tees back. That seems a strange combination though, as the 73.5 would make it seem fairly difficult for your scratch golfer, but the 130 really isn't bad for your bogey golfer.

I think the hardest course I've ever played was The Bull up in Wisconsin. We played it from the tips that day and it was nuts. It was like 76.X/148 or 150...about as hard as you can get.
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#8 axer13

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:51 PM

View Posthayzooos, on 10 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postmarmooskapaul, on 10 September 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Myscorecard.com, which I'm a member of says....

10 hdc. average
70.1
123
83.5 score average

5 hdc. average
70.7
124
79.1 score average

25 hdc. average
69.0
119
99.9

I'm assuming that is from their member base...which is in the 1000's or 10,000's

Paul

I might add...the courses I play the most are at or below the ratings for the 25 hdc. average. Which means for me 9.8 hdc. I have to shoot basically 80 or below to gain anything on my hdc....it all evens out..between hard/easier ratings...I think.

I use the same site and was going to go there because I knew they listed some of this stuff there. I believe you're correct when they compile all that stuff from their own user base, so it should be fairly accurate even considering most golfers don't keep a handicap and those that do, probably do it through GHIN or their club which might use the same.

Back to the OPs question...at 73.5/130, I'd put that around a 6-7 in terms of difficulty, but it also depends on what tees you're playing from. If that's the slope/rating from the normal men's tees, I'd say it's a pretty tough course and I'd probably bump it up to around an 8, as you'd be hovering around the 74.5-75.0/136-140 mark from the tip or at least the next set of tees back. That seems a strange combination though, as the 73.5 would make it seem fairly difficult for your scratch golfer, but the 130 really isn't bad for your bogey golfer.

I think the hardest course I've ever played was The Bull up in Wisconsin. We played it from the tips that day and it was nuts. It was like 76.X/148 or 150...about as hard as you can get.

The 73.5 is from the tips, the men's tees are like 70.2 I think. I guess that's another thing to consider bc most courses I've played from the tips are rated 72 or higher even if the men's tees are 69 or 70 ratings. yea I've played a course that was over 75 and it was brutal.

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#9 AlecEmersonGolf

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:39 PM

a course i consider average is like 73.5-74 and 135-140
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#10 martinbns

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:58 PM

My current course from the back tees is 72.5/141, whites I play 70.9/133 on a par 72.

My last course played Blue, 70.9/125 on a par 71.

Theoretical Average is 113, actual average in the US is 120.

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#11 az2au

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 12:22 AM

My last 20 rounds have averaged 73.025/135.8. I usually play the tips wherever I am playing unless it is a work round or playing with other people that cannot play all the way back. Hardest in that grouping is 76.6/144. Easiest was 70.6/132. My home course is 75.5/149 from the tees I typically play but I have only been home 6 days in the last two months so almost all of my last 20 are away rounds.

Edited by az2au, 11 September 2015 - 09:25 AM.


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#12 raynorfan1

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 07:52 AM

View Posthayzooos, on 10 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

That seems a strange combination though, as the 73.5 would make it seem fairly difficult for your scratch golfer, but the 130 really isn't bad for your bogey golfer.

This is a common misconception about the relationship between the rating and the slope. A course with a rating above par* is more difficult than average for a scratch golfer, a course with a rating below par is easier than average for a scratch golfer. But the rating is the starting point of the slope - a course with a rating above par, but a slope of 130 is more difficult for everybody than a course with a lower rating and a slope of 130.

The slope represents how much harder the course is for a bogey golfer than it is for a scratch golfer. A course with a slope of 135 could actually be easier than a course with a slope of 128.

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#13 hayzooos

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 09:46 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 11 September 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

View Posthayzooos, on 10 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

That seems a strange combination though, as the 73.5 would make it seem fairly difficult for your scratch golfer, but the 130 really isn't bad for your bogey golfer.

This is a common misconception about the relationship between the rating and the slope. A course with a rating above par* is more difficult than average for a scratch golfer, a course with a rating below par is easier than average for a scratch golfer. But the rating is the starting point of the slope - a course with a rating above par, but a slope of 130 is more difficult for everybody than a course with a lower rating and a slope of 130.

The slope represents how much harder the course is for a bogey golfer than it is for a scratch golfer. A course with a slope of 135 could actually be easier than a course with a slope of 128.

I didn't quite follow on first read-through, but thanks for taking the time to explain it.
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#14 prsgtrman

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 07:21 PM

if yall are bored check out popeofslope.com really good info about course ratings, slope etc etc and its dean knuths site. i believe the national slope rating is 118 currently.

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#15 rcain1us

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 07:31 PM

I typically play at a course that is 71/123 from the tips, last month I played at a different course that was 73.5/138 from the tips.

Yardages were very similar but the second course had fairways that were about 2/3-1/2 as wide as the first without much room to bail out and/or stay in the hole from another fairway or whatever.


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#16 Stensons3Wood

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 10:08 PM

73.8 is a pretty tough golf course.




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#17 J_Smooth

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:58 PM

I always thought the rating was what a scratch golfer should shoot. Not necessarily their average on the course but a good round. I play all kinds of golf tournaments with the USGA and GSGA and Georgia PGA and in those tournaments I rarely play a set of tees rated less than 75 and slope less than 140.
for example
Echelon Golf Club


Posted Image (47)

  • Holes: 18
  • Par: 72
  • Length: 7558 yards
  • Slope: 154
  • Rating: 77.8
for the tournament they turned two of the par 5's into par 4's but didn't move the tees ;(







I always assumed this meant a scratch golfer on a normal day would shoot around 78 maybe a little less. but considering the USGA is known for setting up golf courses to make sure no one can dominate that course... I think numbers like the ones above will be about as hard as you'll ever see unless playing in the US Open. but the course where i practice is completely different its a public course with a rating of 71 from the tips and 69 from the mens tees which makes me thing 70 would be an average rating. I say if your course is above 72 its harder than AVERAGE but id be curious to know the average rating of the tees they play on the PGA tour and knowing some outliers (whats the lowest rating and highest rating/slope). theres way to many courses to put a precise number as the average but id bet 70-72 is a normal recreational course rating.


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#18 youraway2

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:47 AM

The Course Rating is determined from every set of tees and becomes "skewed" when the short and tips are measured.  We use 250 yards as a baseline for the driver length for a scratch golfer.  Don't compare that to how far golfers hit the ball, it is a standard for measuring the length of the course.  When a scratch golfer plays the forward tees, doglegs, water crossing and other obstacles may cause "forced" layups and must be calculated into determining Effective Playing Length of the course. Having forced layups make the course play longer than it actually is. What I'm trying to say is the Course Rating for short tees maybe higher due to forced layups.  Therefore the Course Rating for that set of tees may be high, and the Slope (not to be confused with how hard a course plays) may be lower since that same course may play shorter for the Bogey Golfer.  If the Effective Playing Length of a course is increased for the Scratch golfer and lower for the Bogey golfer, the slope will go down.

If you average the Course Ratings for all tees at a particular course, the results may not produce a realistic comparison.   If I were to total all Course Ratings throughout the US for an average, I would only use the most played tee for each course when determining an average of Course Ratings. You could compare all Course Ratings from the tips, and not include the measurements from other tees and determine an average of Course Ratings from the Championship tees.

Course Measurements and Ratings are exciting (and yes hard work at times). Some golfers interested may want to contact your state USGA Allied Golf Association and volunteer.

Edited by youraway2, 10 March 2018 - 09:51 AM.


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#19 teejaywhy

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:31 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 11 September 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

View Posthayzooos, on 10 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

That seems a strange combination though, as the 73.5 would make it seem fairly difficult for your scratch golfer, but the 130 really isn't bad for your bogey golfer.
This is a common misconception about the relationship between the rating and the slope. A course with a rating above par* is more difficult than average for a scratch golfer, a course with a rating below par is easier than average for a scratch golfer. But the rating is the starting point of the slope - a course with a rating above par, but a slope of 130 is more difficult for everybody than a course with a lower rating and a slope of 130. The slope represents how much harder the course is for a bogey golfer than it is for a scratch golfer. A course with a slope of 135 could actually be easier than a course with a slope of 128.

Yes, you can't look at a 73.4 rating and say that's not too bad for a bogey golfer.


View Postlarrybud, on 10 September 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

...While the USGA handicapping manual says 113 is the average slope, they're way off base.  Average is higher than that.

Another misconception.  113 is not the "average slope," but the slope of a course of average difficulty (for a bogey golfer) as was established as the baseline when the slope system was developed.  Read more at The Pope of Slope.

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