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side saddle putters - what putter are you using?


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#571 BigEx44

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:20 AM

View PostJoe Duffer, on 09 January 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostRipper212, on 09 January 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:

Agree that you are overthinking, and probably all of the above opinions are correct to a degree. While there may technically be an arc as a result of the shaft angle, that arc is minuscule and inconsequential, probably mm rather than inches. Which is why you can clearly go SBST with the Putting Trac.

I'm curious... how far can you actually go (in inches) back and through with that device? Can you make a stroke equal to a 30'-40' putt?

BTW, millimeters matter in putting!

Actually…..pretty darn far......

https://www.juanputt...t-practice.html


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#572 ScratchyDawg

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 07 January 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have been side-saddle putting with an old 48" tri-soled long putter for well over 30 years. I'll be 73 in April. The putter's lie-angle plays at around 14° if soled traditionally. However, I set up with the shaft suspended vertically. This does allow the heel to raise and to somewhat compromise "sweetspot" availability during impact, but not so much that I would change.

Presently, my biggest concern is whether I will be allowed to continue to putt in this fashion. - The present (Jan 1, 2019) USGA Rules lead me to believe I may be Non-Conforming!

I still enjoy competition, but I'm too old to change now... but I also still play in USGA sanctioned events.

I don't think there is anything in the 2019 Rules changes that would impact what we do.  If your putter was conforming before Jan. 1, it still is.

Thanks for the reply, but after reviewing the current USGA rules, I'm not at all positive my putter and technique (vertical shaft), are NOW conforming.

I contacted Randy Haag today and he's concerned as well... he was not aware of the wording changes and sent off a letter today asking the USGA for clarification.

With this wording and images in place...

"If the overall design of a putter is such that a player can putt effectively with the shaft in a vertical or near-vertical position, it would be ruled contrary to Part 2, Section 1d, even if the shaft angle does satisfy the 10 degree Rule when the putter is in its “normal address position”. The shaft angle on such a putter would be required to be increased up to as much as 25 degrees".



it seems to me the USGA has the option to stop vertically-shafted, side-saddle putting, except of course, if you're using a flat-soled putter with at least a 10° lie-angle.

There definitely needs to be some clarification. Here is my interpretation of this in my case...
My putter (BG F22) has an 80* lie angle in it's "normal address position", and has a tri-sole design. This means that if the heel of the club is any higher than the toe when I use it, then I'm breaking the rules, since I'm effectively using it in a "near vertical position". Correct me if I'm wrong.
"Give up control to gain control" - George Knudson

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#573 Joe Duffer

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:48 AM

Well... it kinda reads that way, doesn't it? - However, it may have more to do with if the sole design helps in facilitating the vertical shaft at address.... :dntknw:
"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" - John Wooden

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#574 Ripper212

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:48 PM

View PostScratchyDawg, on 10 January 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 07 January 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have been side-saddle putting with an old 48" tri-soled long putter for well over 30 years. I'll be 73 in April. The putter's lie-angle plays at around 14° if soled traditionally. However, I set up with the shaft suspended vertically. This does allow the heel to raise and to somewhat compromise "sweetspot" availability during impact, but not so much that I would change.

Presently, my biggest concern is whether I will be allowed to continue to putt in this fashion. - The present (Jan 1, 2019) USGA Rules lead me to believe I may be Non-Conforming!

I still enjoy competition, but I'm too old to change now... but I also still play in USGA sanctioned events.

I don't think there is anything in the 2019 Rules changes that would impact what we do.  If your putter was conforming before Jan. 1, it still is.

Thanks for the reply, but after reviewing the current USGA rules, I'm not at all positive my putter and technique (vertical shaft), are NOW conforming.

I contacted Randy Haag today and he's concerned as well... he was not aware of the wording changes and sent off a letter today asking the USGA for clarification.

With this wording and images in place...

"If the overall design of a putter is such that a player can putt effectively with the shaft in a vertical or near-vertical position, it would be ruled contrary to Part 2, Section 1d, even if the shaft angle does satisfy the 10 degree Rule when the putter is in its “normal address position”. The shaft angle on such a putter would be required to be increased up to as much as 25 degrees".



it seems to me the USGA has the option to stop vertically-shafted, side-saddle putting, except of course, if you're using a flat-soled putter with at least a 10° lie-angle.

There definitely needs to be some clarification. Here is my interpretation of this in my case...
My putter (BG F22) has an 80* lie angle in it's "normal address position", and has a tri-sole design. This means that if the heel of the club is any higher than the toe when I use it, then I'm breaking the rules, since I'm effectively using it in a "near vertical position". Correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is that you are NOT breaking the rules as long as your putter has been judged conforming by the USGA. There is nothing in the rules that prohibits you from using any club in the vertical position, just that the club cannot be designed to use that way in which case it would be non-conforming. When will the USGA start using comprehensible and common sense rules?

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#575 Joe Duffer

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:20 PM

View PostBigEx44, on 10 January 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 09 January 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostRipper212, on 09 January 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:

Agree that you are overthinking, and probably all of the above opinions are correct to a degree. While there may technically be an arc as a result of the shaft angle, that arc is minuscule and inconsequential, probably mm rather than inches. Which is why you can clearly go SBST with the Putting Trac.

I'm curious... how far can you actually go (in inches) back and through with that device? Can you make a stroke equal to a 30'-40' putt?

BTW, millimeters matter in putting!

Actually…..pretty darn far......

https://www.juanputt...t-practice.html

Juan told me the Putter Trac was designed and helpful only for 10'-15' putts on average speed greens.

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" - John Wooden

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#576 ScratchyDawg

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:34 PM

View PostRipper212, on 10 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

View PostScratchyDawg, on 10 January 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 07 January 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 07 January 2019 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have been side-saddle putting with an old 48" tri-soled long putter for well over 30 years. I'll be 73 in April. The putter's lie-angle plays at around 14° if soled traditionally. However, I set up with the shaft suspended vertically. This does allow the heel to raise and to somewhat compromise "sweetspot" availability during impact, but not so much that I would change.

Presently, my biggest concern is whether I will be allowed to continue to putt in this fashion. - The present (Jan 1, 2019) USGA Rules lead me to believe I may be Non-Conforming!

I still enjoy competition, but I'm too old to change now... but I also still play in USGA sanctioned events.

I don't think there is anything in the 2019 Rules changes that would impact what we do.  If your putter was conforming before Jan. 1, it still is.

Thanks for the reply, but after reviewing the current USGA rules, I'm not at all positive my putter and technique (vertical shaft), are NOW conforming.

I contacted Randy Haag today and he's concerned as well... he was not aware of the wording changes and sent off a letter today asking the USGA for clarification.

With this wording and images in place...

"If the overall design of a putter is such that a player can putt effectively with the shaft in a vertical or near-vertical position, it would be ruled contrary to Part 2, Section 1d, even if the shaft angle does satisfy the 10 degree Rule when the putter is in its “normal address position”. The shaft angle on such a putter would be required to be increased up to as much as 25 degrees".



it seems to me the USGA has the option to stop vertically-shafted, side-saddle putting, except of course, if you're using a flat-soled putter with at least a 10° lie-angle.

There definitely needs to be some clarification. Here is my interpretation of this in my case...
My putter (BG F22) has an 80* lie angle in it's "normal address position", and has a tri-sole design. This means that if the heel of the club is any higher than the toe when I use it, then I'm breaking the rules, since I'm effectively using it in a "near vertical position". Correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is that you are NOT breaking the rules as long as your putter has been judged conforming by the USGA. There is nothing in the rules that prohibits you from using any club in the vertical position, just that the club cannot be designed to use that way in which case it would be non-conforming. When will the USGA start using comprehensible and common sense rules?

This is where I still get hung up on the interpretation

"The same subjectivity may also be needed when confronted with a putter which has a very curved sole (see Figure 10). As before, the conformance evaluation would take into account not only the manner in which the putter is designed to be used, but also the way it could feasibly and effectively be used, given the geometry of the head as well as other unique characteristics of the overall design. This interpretation is particularly relevant to longshafted putters with very curved or multi-planed soles – but standard length putters of 34-38 inches can also be subjected to this assessment."
"Give up control to gain control" - George Knudson

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#577 Ripper212

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:59 PM

As the second sentence states this is taken into account during the conformance evaluation. If the putter can be used effectively when held vertical, they could rule it non-conforming. If your putter is approved, you could use it any way you like, except straddling the line

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#578 The Coug

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:10 PM

Anyone tried Cure putters for side saddle?

Positives are the adjustable weight and lie (up to 80 degrees) and that they are actually able to be used right or left handed for those of us who are left handed but have traditionally played and putted righty.

Cons that I can see are that they are realllly wide, which basically eliminates the possibility of manipulating to true vertical during the stroke.

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#579 BigEx44

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:10 AM

View PostJoe Duffer, on 10 January 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

View PostBigEx44, on 10 January 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

View PostJoe Duffer, on 09 January 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostRipper212, on 09 January 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:

Agree that you are overthinking, and probably all of the above opinions are correct to a degree. While there may technically be an arc as a result of the shaft angle, that arc is minuscule and inconsequential, probably mm rather than inches. Which is why you can clearly go SBST with the Putting Trac.

I'm curious... how far can you actually go (in inches) back and through with that device? Can you make a stroke equal to a 30'-40' putt?

BTW, millimeters matter in putting!

Actually…..pretty darn far......

https://www.juanputt...t-practice.html

Juan told me the Putter Trac was designed and helpful only for 10'-15' putts on average speed greens.

Agree...kind of....

I provided the link (pictures) to answer your first question, "How far can you go back and through with that device"

And I find my putts can go a bit further than what Juan suggested since I have a bit a "pop" to my putting stroke.

At 30-40' what does it matter anyways?  At that point your probably not making the putt and are really just looking for a good lag.....

9

#580 BigEx44

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:14 AM

View Postgocougs666, on 10 January 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

Anyone tried Cure putters for side saddle?

Positives are the adjustable weight and lie (up to 80 degrees) and that they are actually able to be used right or left handed for those of us who are left handed but have traditionally played and putted righty.

Cons that I can see are that they are realllly wide, which basically eliminates the possibility of manipulating to true vertical during the stroke.

Yes.  I tried one.
- I didn't like the really wide sole that as you said didn't allow any manipulation to any kind of more vertical during the stroke.
- I didn't like the "ping" sound or the feel at contact.
- For whatever reason (and I'm not sure why) - I didn't like how the putter set up for me.  I just couldn't get comfortable with it.
I ended up selling mine on ebay.

Edited by BigEx44, 11 January 2019 - 05:16 AM.


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#581 BigEx44

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:17 AM

View PostRipper212, on 10 January 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

As the second sentence states this is taken into account during the conformance evaluation. If the putter can be used effectively when held vertical, they could rule it non-conforming. If your putter is approved, you could use it any way you like, except straddling the line

And you could straddle the line if on the fringe!

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#582 Ripper212

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:07 AM

View PostBigEx44, on 11 January 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

View PostRipper212, on 10 January 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

As the second sentence states this is taken into account during the conformance evaluation. If the putter can be used effectively when held vertical, they could rule it non-conforming. If your putter is approved, you could use it any way you like, except straddling the line

And you could straddle the line if on the fringe!

Yup. And you can correct your playing partners when they say that's illegal! Haven't had great success with that FWIW. Usually go conventional/armlock style for long putts, esp off the green - easy to do that with the LFI.

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#583 J-Tizzle

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:52 AM

View PostBigEx44, on 11 January 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

View Postgocougs666, on 10 January 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

Anyone tried Cure putters for side saddle?

Positives are the adjustable weight and lie (up to 80 degrees) and that they are actually able to be used right or left handed for those of us who are left handed but have traditionally played and putted righty.

Cons that I can see are that they are realllly wide, which basically eliminates the possibility of manipulating to true vertical during the stroke.

Yes.  I tried one.
- I didn't like the really wide sole that as you said didn't allow any manipulation to any kind of more vertical during the stroke.
- I didn't like the "ping" sound or the feel at contact.
- For whatever reason (and I'm not sure why) - I didn't like how the putter set up for me.  I just couldn't get comfortable with it.
I ended up selling mine on ebay.

Yep, I tried a RX3 when I first wanted to try out side saddling.  I had one that I was using normal, got the straight shaft and extended it out to 45" and played one round with it, liked the approach, then bought a legit side saddle putter (one that I could hold more vertical).  If you're not interested in holding it straight up and down (keeping the sole of the putter flat), its an option for sure.
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