I've been thinking about starting a thread similiar this. . . but weighing the pro's and cons of playing the professional game. I've thought about it a lot, hitting a ball that barely rolls off the fairway, then when you get there it just. . .gone. I've been known to drop a ball and say "if tiger hit it here, he'd know where it was", and playing on with no penalty. I know its wrong, but I saw that freakin ball roll just off the fairway and now its somehow disappeared.
its wrong, I know.
i think this is the only thing that really pisses me off when i play. where the hell did the ball go? i think when this happens you should not only get a drop without penatly, but you should take a stroke off your score to calm you down from losing a ball that should never have been lost in the first place.
lets think about it this way...Tiger said a SOLID 10 HC could not have broken 100 at Oakmont. So by extrapolation, a 0 handicap would shoot 100 or a few strokes less. Add in that the average TOUR score at Oakmont was ~6 strokes higher than a normal event. I assume by this that an amateur would have had about double that amount of strokes worse at Oakmont than a normal TOUR stop so the penalty would be ~12 strokes at Oakmont over a normal TOUR stop. Thus, if a 0 HC shoots 98 at Oakmont then he/she shoots 86 on a normal TOUR stop which is close to this 10 number everyone has been saying. I will say however, that I played my home course the day after stage 1 Q school was there (ok....not a TOUR event, but you get the point) and the few extra strokes due to rough were made up from the 20 extra yards of roll on the average tee shot (shorter iron in) and the pristine condtion of the greens. So I came out about the same as normal (granted, no crowds, no TV, no money on the line). In the end, I would say on the first go round that the 86 number looks about right. But give a SOLID 0 HC a few tourneys to get use to it all and let him/her get in his/her groove, I believe that they could bring that number down to 76 or better on a consistent basis (just look at what the average club pro's shoot at a normal tour stop...and they are usually a 0 HC or maybe even worse). So thats my analysis.
1. People lining every fairway. (pretend as in they don't make you nervous lol)
2. Spotters who watch your ball on every hole and finds where it is and puts a flag by it.
3. A caddy.
4. Better equipment that was fitted to all your needs.
5. Add your ideas of what pros have that we don't.
How many strokes would it save you?
1. People lining the fairway would be in grave danger
2. The only good thing about a spotter would be finding my ball
3. A caddy would be nice to find out exactly how far off my club distances really are
4. I've got good equipment
5. The pros are really, really good, which make them pros. I get nervous playing on my own
the best amateurs in the world frequently play tour events/majors - all of them are + handicaps - none of them are out there shooting 65's with any regularity on a tour setup - the setups are too difficult - as for anyone else forget it - you are adding strokes to your round not substracting imo no matter how much 'help' you think the pros get - the setups increase the difficulty of a courses rating by 2 to 6, maybe higher.
I think what the original poster meant was if you had a tour pros tools what would you shoot on your regular course.
On my regular course(s), with their normal prep, 0 strokes.
On a completely unfamiliar course with some unusual aspects like blind hazards, highly countoured greens (might not want to hit your approach where you would initially guess), a caddy would likely save me 2 - 3 strokes the first or second time around. After that, 0. I don't have problems with the correct course management for my ability, reading greens, and I use a range finder. It's ALL execution for me (at which I basically suck ).
I have been as low as a 5 and would expect to shoot 90-95 on a tournament set up PGA course (narrow fairways, long fairway and greenside rough, 7,000+ yards, tough pins, every par 3 over 200 yards, overall difficult course, "bad shots" would be much worse, and the pressure to earn money every week, etc.).
People under estimate how elite of an athelete you must be to be on the PGA Tour.
Consider this:
NFL has 1,700 players
NHL has 950
MLB has 750 to 1,000
NBA has 500
The PGA only gives full exemptions to the top 125.
Imagine this....
How about having a 40 yard pitch off of a ultra tight lie to a tucked pin over a bunker with water behind the green and a gazillion people watching......
Then a (475y) dogleg right with water down the right and o.b. down the left and 300y to carry the left bunker.......
Lord forbid you thinned the pitch on #1 and/or hooked it o.b. on #2, Now you have to play 16 more holes with america watching and johnny miller critiquing you.
If you are on your game = hell yeah lets play..... but if you were struggling with your game = long, long day
lets think about it this way...Tiger said a SOLID 10 HC could not have broken 100 at Oakmont....
I've always assumed that a USGA setup was much more severe than your typical PGA Tour setup, hence all the bitching about the "unfairness" of a U.S.Open course every year. Whereas USGA setups are designed to test the golfer, PGA setups are designed to cater to and show off the talent. No doubt the PGA courses are set up tougher for events than they normally play, but still, if they're not pristine, the Tour probably doesn't stop there.
Around the time of the AT&T National, The Washington Post had a great article that asked the converse of the question being mused in this thread: http://www.washingto...7070101221.html
I thought it was an interesting and funny article and somewhat relevant to this subject.
I am a 4 handicap and belong to a private club, so the condition of the course and greens I play are usually pretty good. I have played Bay Hill twice from the tips (7,450 yards) and never broke 90. The rough there is thick and sometimes you have to pitch out sidewards. I drive the ball 280-290 and had to hit 3 woods and hybrids into par 4's. And Bay Hill is just another course on the PGA...
Yeah, everyone would shoot lower with caddyies, crowds to knock the ball back into play, etc. on there home course. But the courses the PGA guys play are tricked up and a lot harder than 95% of us play. Having hard fairways is a double edged sword. You get more roll from your drives, but if you hit you ball offline you roll through the fairway into the rough. Aslo, chipping in deep rough around the greens that are rolling around 11's are close to impossible...catch it a little thin and you are screwed.
I think it's silly to think if you had custom clubs, caddies, etc. you would shoot lower on a PGA course. You would shoot higher, because the courses they play are HARDER.
Just people lining the fairways watching my every shot alone would be enough for me to improve. Overall I'm a nice guy, but I'm also a showoff. I hit one of the best drives of my life on the first tee of a private club tournament where at least 50 people were watching, straight and purely cranked. I just love people watching me play.
1. People lining every fairway. (pretend as in they don't make you nervous lol)
2. Spotters who watch your ball on every hole and finds where it is and puts a flag by it.
3. A caddy.
4. Better equipment that was fitted to all your needs.
5. Add your ideas of what pros have that we don't.
How many strokes would it save you?
Just a note that the original post DID NOT say that the above-mentioned advantages would also be coupled with having to actually plat on PGA courses. Rather, I think the more interesting exercise is to imagine your HOME course with (1) trampled grass, (2) spotters, (3) caddy, (4) best equipment possible, (5) picture perfect greens and fairways, (6) flat tee boxes, etc. We KNOW what amateurs shoot on PGA tracks, because ALL of them are private/public clubs when not used for tournaments. We DON'T know what the average golfer would shoot on a regular track in perfect conditions, with perfect equipment, and all the advantages of pros.
Around the time of the AT&T National, The Washington Post had a great article that asked the converse of the question being mused in this thread: http://www.washingto...7070101221.html
I thought it was an interesting and funny article and somewhat relevant to this subject.
Cheers,
Tim
Great article. Those pros are pamped bit*hes - about time they have to feel our pain . I was almost laughing out loud at his reaction to the maintenance crew.....a few months ago at a course I play regularly the big mower was out about 250 on a 300ish par 4 just leisurely making his way back and forth across the entire fairway. I waited about a minute, waived my hands, etc. The guy was looking my way but either didn't see me or didn't care - i just teed off and it was no problem...he gave me a nice waive as I walked past.
Around the time of the AT&T National, The Washington Post had a great article that asked the converse of the question being mused in this thread: http://www.washingto...7070101221.html
I thought it was an interesting and funny article and somewhat relevant to this subject.
Cheers,
Tim
Great article. Those pros are pamped bit*hes - about time they have to feel our pain . I was almost laughing out loud at his reaction to the maintenance crew.....a few months ago at a course I play regularly the big mower was out about 250 on a 300ish par 4 just leisurely making his way back and forth across the entire fairway. I waited about a minute, waived my hands, etc. The guy was looking my way but either didn't see me or didn't care - i just teed off and it was no problem...he gave me a nice waive as I walked past.
Relatedly, a tour caddie is a member at my club. Great guy. Brings his fancy pants tour friends and bosses around to our humble little track every now and again. We regularly smoke the guys on our course, for three basic reasons: (1) every lie sucks everywhere and this just throws them off from the start, (2) the greens are different speeds throughout the layout, so a few will be lightning and a few soppy and slow, but the pros cannot adjust to this regardless of whether you tell them in advance or not, and (3) none of the tee boxes are level, often purposefully biasing your shot to the trouble, which poses a major problem to most of the tour pros, as they just can't adjust easily to the oddities.
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thenewbie, on Oct 21 2007, 06:27 PM, said:
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- about time they have to feel our pain 
. I was almost laughing out loud at his reaction to the maintenance crew.....a few months ago at a course I play regularly the big mower was out about 250 on a 300ish par 4 just leisurely making his way back and forth across the entire fairway. I waited about a minute, waived my hands, etc. The guy was looking my way but either didn't see me or didn't care - i just teed off and it was no problem...he gave me a nice waive as I walked past.
